CHAPDISC: PS/SS 1, The Boy Who Lived and Avatar SPOILERS LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 187735

Alla:
>
> So the choice is either Dursleys or Kings Cross? I just do not think so. But
I had been through choices in the past and really do not want to recite them
again.

Pippin:
That is the choice, yes. Harry alive and miserable, or happy and dead. We don't
meet anyone in the books who believes they can stop Voldemort from killing Harry
any other way.

Alla:

I do not remember meeting anybody in the books discussing other choices period except Dumbledore and forgive me if I find his words to be a bit of self justification and suspect.

It is good that you are convinced that it was the only choice, I am not that is all there is to it.

Pippin:
Dumbledore does say in OOP that it was the only way he could keep Harry alive.
And why should he be sorry about that? He's not God -- it's not his fault that
there aren't any better choices. He didn't make Petunia so bitter or Sirius
Black so rash. Hagrid told Sirius where he taking Harry and there was nothing
stopping Sirius from going along with them, except his own poor judgment. 

Alla:

Why should he be sorry? Probably because he is not a family member and nobody died and made him in charge of Harry's well-being. You say he is not God, to me it felt that he indeed appointed himself a God and acted like one.

I do not know where Sirius would have taken Harry to, if Dumbledore would not have sent Hagrid. If he would have taken Harry with him when he was going after Peter, I would have been the first one to say that it was a rash and horrible thing to do, but for all I know he would have taken Harry to the safe place and then went after Peter, or not went after Peter at all (Mike you convinced me I do not think it was a rash and reckless thing to do as things stand anymore).

Pippin:
The "pampered prince" is just the one silver lining Dumbledore could find in a
very dark cloud. Remember, Dumbledore himself was a pampered prince. Everyone
deferred to his brilliance and his talent. As a child his only responsibility
was to develop them. Lovely, except that when he found out that real
responsibilities meant hardship and discipline and sacrifice, he wasn't fit for
them. That was the tragedy of his life. Can you blame him for being relieved
that Harry escaped it? <SNIP>

Alla:

Yes, I absolutely can and as I said upthread this is part of the reason why I find the execution of such choice to be so unconvincing, because Dumbledore adds this "pampered prince" crap to his rhetoric.

First of all I do not know when Dumbledore says it that he is talking about his  own childhood, I took it to mean that the love and care of the wizarding family for him means raising Harry as pampered prince. And even if Dumbledore means his own childhood, um, no I do not think he was a pampered prince, I do not know how I can blame his parents for Dumbledore being screwed in the head and wanting to go with Grindelwald. I blame Dumbledore for that, who knows maybe if more details were shown about his upbringing, I would have changed my mind.

So, yes, if Dumbledore wanted for Harry to not have parents as he had, my only response would be how dare you you bastard. 


Pippin:
Wizards approach Petunia. Wizards, owls and a house-elf enter Privet Drive,
they destroy part of the house, they place enchantments on Dudley, and even on
Harry himself. But none of them meant any harm to Harry.

Alla:

Oh? And how do we know that three wizards that approached him meant no harm? Maybe at least one of them was Voldemort's spy and was trying to find ways to get closer to Harry?

Pippin:
So how am I supposed to believe that any DE could have managed it, when
Voldemort says so clearly that he himself could not? <SNIP>

Alla:

If Voldemort was alive all this time by the way, that would have been another way to convince me of necessity of blood protection.

Pippin:
I have no comment on the Avatar series, except to say that it put me to sleep,
but comparing what the readers know to what the characters know in a work of
fiction is apples and oranges.

Alla:

LOL. Sorry, to each their own of course, I am just amused that I finally met the person whom Avatar put to sleep. But could you remind me where I was comparing what characters know to what readers know?

I was trying to explain what I consider to be groundbreaking plot and character changes in the genre and thus giving some plot details to show what I consider new and fresh and what in my view Avatar writers did and JKR did not. Please remind me where I did what you just said I did.

Pippin:
Look at LOTR. Could the people of Middle Earth have united and driven Sauron out
of Mordor without using the Ring? Possibly. They didn't try, so I can't know But
it's clear to me why the characters wouldn't think it was feasible. <SNIP>


Alla:

Funny, contrary to HP it is clear to me in LOTR as well. It is probably because nobody can change what the Ring is and well,  I was given enough reason to doubt that Harry's fate just has to proceed the way Dumbledore wanted to.

Pippin:
But the whole point is that the Dursleys were not better people and they did
harm Harry, just like the whole point of Gollum is that he's treacherous and he
did harm Frodo. And yet, just as Frodo could not have survived without Gollum,
Harry could not have survived without the Dursleys.

Alla:

Yes, I know that this is the whole point, the one which I find unconvincing that is all. Oh and yes, I know that all the scenarios would have made for a different story. That goes without saying, I do not see why you even mention it. 

JMO,

Alla