Chapdisc Cos 12/ Dumbledore and Legilimency

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 189097



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, lui <lui_rhys_01 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
>   
> justcarol67 wrote:
> > I'm not so sure that DD used Occlumency on Harry though he often gives Harry the sense that he's being X-rayed and certainly subjects both Harry and Tom Riddle to a searching glance (which could as easily be a means of detecting through facial expressions and other signs whether a student is lying). 
> 
> Bart:
> Probably, like all skills and talents, there are varying levels of 
> ability in Occlumancy, Prof. Dumbledore probably has some degree of 
> Occlumancy ability, but not up to the level of Morty or Sevvy.

> 
> luirhys: you must be confusing occlumency with legilimency. 
> 
>         "Legilimency is the magical skill of extracting feelings and memories from another person's mind-
> 
>        The counter-skill to Legilimency is Occlumency (and its user, known as an Occlumens),
> by which one can                         compartmentalise one's emotions, or prevent a
> Legilimens from discovering thoughts or memories which contradict         one's
> spoken words or actions."I'm pretty sure that DD and Snape employ both abilities on a regular basis. Being very powerful wizards, they could easily do this without the recipient knowing. It was even said in that Dumbledore didn't need a cloak to become invisible, and has a disillusionment charm so strong that he could become invisible. 
> 
> This makes it plain that their abilities must be so advanced that their "victims" do not suspect anything. 
> 
> In the case of Harry and Riddle, DD might have read their minds but decided not to say anything. We all know he stresses on 'individual choice.'
> 
>  
> _ 
> 
> Nikkalmati

I know it is a popular opinion, but I have never seen anything in canon that convinces me that anyone can perform legilimancy without the other person knowing about it.  Snape is suppposed to be very good, but both times he ligilimizes Harry, Harry sees in his own mind exactly what Snape sees.  Voldemort may never have felt the need to develop Occlumancy.  Who is going to attempt to look into his mind?  That might explain why he does not recognize it when Snape uses it against him.
  
We assume DD can do both skills, because he is an old and powerful wizard, but we never are privy to his using either one.  I agree that he can, and possibly taught Snape after Snape became his spy.

Nikkalmati