CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Prisoner of Azkaban Chapter 5: The Dementor

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 189521



> Pippin:
> If Grindelwald was *always* on the Dark Side, he wouldn't have been a welcome guest in Bathilda's home and Dumbledore wouldn't have wanted to be associated with him. Dumbledore says that he knew in his heart was Grindelwald was, but he closed his eyes to it. It wasn't until the argument with Aberforth became a fight that Grindelwald lost control and what Dumbledore had sensed in him sprang "into terrible being."

Alla:

I thought Dumbledore would not have wanted to associate with his younger self either. Of course till the fight there were no murderous consequences of who Grindelwald was, but in my opinion young Gellert and Dumbledore had pretty much the same ideas and same desires and the only difference was IMO that Ariana's death shocked those ideas out of Dumbledore's head and Grindelwald went on from theory to practice.


Pippin:
> Certainly Dumbledore was shocked by  the fight -- he wasn't expecting an attack on his brother, or his sister's death. He wanted Gellert to use "only the force that was necessary and no more" and he made himself believe that Gellert was capable of restraint. <SNIP>

Alla:

Still to me very far from Sirius' situation.


Pippin:
> Of course Sirius never showed any ambitions towards gaining political power by force, but Dumbledore hadn't had such ideas until Grindelwald put them in his head -- and then he encouraged and aided Grindelwald in them.   He might have feared that Voldemort had done the same thing with Sirius. 

Alla:

My point is that Dumbledore always saw what was in Grindelwald's head and the only devlopment that happened was that he went from theory to practice. IMO of course.



>> > Alla:
> > 
> > Huh, I always thought he was sent in Azkaban for both events. What about Dumbledore giving "evidence" that Sirius was Potters secret keeper at the hearing?
> 
> Pippin:
> 
> What hearing? There was no trial. Dumbledore would have been questioned by the Ministry, rather as Harry was after Dumbledore's death. Dumbledore gave evidence of what he knew, which was that James had insisted on using Sirius as his secret keeper, despite Dumbledore's warnings that someone close to the Potters was passing information on their movements to Voldemort. 


Alla:

I did not say that there was a trial. However, what I remember (and of course I cannot find the quote when I need it GRRRR) is  that canon calls it a hearing and for all we know there was some mockery of the hearing held where everything was predetermined, and for all we know Dumbledore was called as a witness.  My recollection is that canon does not say that Dumbledore gave the evidence of what he knew, that James insisted on using Sirius as a secret keeper.  As far as I remember canon is much more damning to the bastard IMO. Boy I have not talked about this action of dear old headmaster for a while and I am getting angry with him all over again when I am thinking about it lol. As far as I remember canon says that Dumbledore gave evidence that Sirius *was** a secret keeper and Dumbledore could not have known that, because all that he knew was as you said that James insisted on Sirius' being a secret keeper and he was not. 

JMO,

Alla