[HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort's Intentions & Snape's Expectations

[Shelley]

No: HPFGUIDX 189821

On 11/30/2010 8:45 PM, pippin_999 wrote:
>> Shelley:
>> Bart, your premise still states that Voldemort could treat people
>> "nicely" (as in what you would do to a useful tool) on purpose. Name
>> even one other Death Eater than Voldemort considered the feelings of or
>> did anything remotely nice for? The only reason he keeps people around
>> is that he needs them, but he doesn't give anyone a choice in it, and
>> neither does he play favorites or dote affection, as much a Bellatrix
>> desired it.<snip>  What is missing in this case is something that is
>> painfully required of Snape in exchange for his wish granted.
>>
> Pippin:
> What is  required of Snape is to spy on Albus Dumbledore at Hogwarts itself, at great personal risk, with no chance to Apparate out of trouble or use the  Dark Mark to summon aid if he is caught.  And there will be little opportunity to indulge in  the pleasures that being a Death Eater affords. Snape will have to confine himself to handing out unfair detentions to ickle firsties,  which is a bit of a come down for someone who's a specialist in the Sectum Sempra curse.
>
>   As  for the  talent extraordinary enough to impress Voldemort, we know what it is, and it's not potion making or curses. Gifted as Snape is in those areas, Voldemort's gifts are greater. Riddle  is called the most brilliant student that Hogwarts has ever seen. IIRC, he won every award and distinction the school had to offer. Snape is just not in that class.
>
> What Snape does have,  and Voldemort says he always admires, is courage. The courage not only to voluntarily spy on Dumbledore  in Hogsmeade, but to keep his head and talk his way out of trouble when he was caught red-handed. Even Voldemort himself could not do that.
>
> Such a one would not lack the courage to name the reward he desired. If no other DE ever was granted such a request, perhaps it is because no other DE ever dared to make one.
>
> So, shouldn't  Snape have been punished for daring to suggest that  serving his master was not the only reward he could hope for and indeed the only one he deserved? That would be in character for an Evil Overlord. But, IMO, it wouldn't be in character for Voldemort.
>
> Voldemort  has one talent that sets him apart, one gift that his real life and fictional counterparts do not have.  When people tell Voldie that they exist only to serve him, he *knows* they are lying. He knows  that people always  want  things for themselves and he can look right inside their heads and see what they are: protection, maybe, but also glory, power, riches...and victims. Some don't want anything *but* victims. Dementors, for example.
>
> If Voldemort wasn't willing to accept  followers on those terms, he wouldn't have any. But no matter. Voldemort has never insisted on keeping all the power or treasure or victims for  himself, only the  important ones. His servants can have  the spares.
>
>   It's  no more "doing stuff" for them than dangling a carrot in front of a donkey to make it go is kindness to animals.
>
> Voldemort has no particular reason to see that Snape ever actually gets the carrot. But equally there is no reason to destroy it -- unless it becomes more trouble than it is worth.
>
> Pippin
Shelley:
Pippin, you and I must see Voldemort very differently. Yes, I fully 
agree with you that Voldemort can see inside of people's head and name 
what it is they desire (fame, power, victims) but that's all we agree 
on. I think Voldemort uses those traits to get what he wants, he used 
those desires to manipulate people to his end. It's never a carrot in 
front of someone's face, it's more like the control of an abusive 
boyfriend that has enough charisma to "always find your sore spots" so 
he can keep manipulating you and making you feel guilty even though he's 
the ass. Voldemort only "allows" people prizes or spoils if he suits his 
needs- the Malfoys are allowed to have riches and when Voldemort needs a 
meeting place, watch how fast he moves into the Malfoy manor to take 
over. He allowed Lucius to have the diary just to hide it- he never 
expected him to use it, even after Voldemort was presumed dead. People 
are allowed wands until Voldemort demands it from them. Bellatrix is 
allowed to have a bank vault so the Horcrux has a place to hide. For 
Voldemort's benefit only, always. When you use a carrot to lead an 
animal, and then the job is done, you feed them for real. Voldemort 
never feeds his people. Again, the hand of Wormtail is the key example. 
"Oh thank you master" Wormtail says, too ignorant to figure out yet this 
"gift" is really a curse designed to take his life if he is ever 
disloyal again. That wasn't a damn carrot- it was a noose around his 
neck. Every Death Eater knew it, and if they didn't, they were as good 
as dead too.