chapter discussion CoS 4 and 5

[Catlady (Rita Prince]

No: HPFGUIDX 188837

Nikkalmati discussed CoS Chapter 4 in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188777>:

<< Harry (snip) is accosted by an ugly witch. >>

Do you think she might have been a hag intending to eat him? Hags, a kind of being who is technically not human, eat young children; Harry at 12 was a bit too old, but he was small for his age at that time. She was selling fingernails, presumably as an ingredient for some potion, or food for some Dark beast; could they be leftovers from the children she'd eaten? *waves at Carol <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188829>*

<< 6. Is Harry right that his goblin gold would not be useful in the Muggle world?>>

Probably. The size of those Galleons seems to me that if they were real, non-magical gold, they'd be too heavy to carry enough of them to buy anything at those prices. However, as Alla mentioned, Gringotts exchanges between being Goblin and Muggle currency.

Potioncat replied in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188780>:

<< We see (snip) Percy's ambitious nature >>

It was suggested on list that Percy was not actually reading PREFECTS WHO GAINED POWER, but had simply grabbed up the nearest book to pretend to read, really to conceal from his family that he had met with Penelope. Whatever became of Penelope? Her name seemed to show that she would wait for him as long as it took.

Pippin wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188783>:

<< But the books show that cruelty does have negative consequences, though they may not become apparent for a long time. And because they may not be apparent, it becomes a matter of faith. One must choose to believe that, in the long run, the personal satisfaction of getting nasty wouldn't be worth it. >>

I continue to believe that you read the Potter ouevre more subtly than Rowling does. If she intended such subtlety, she concealed her intention by statements made in character as her own self such as that Marietta's spots are not cured because 'I hate a traitor!'.

Which reminds me to recite my tired old rant about parallelisms. Snape and Pettigrew both turned from the side they were originally on to the other side and betrayed their friends who remained on the original side, resulting in the deaths and imprisonments of some of those friends. Dobby and Kreachur each betrayed his owner in order to assist a person whom the owner views as an enemy, in one case to the death of the owner and in the other to the owner's serious financial and political loss. 

Percy turned against his family because they turned against the side that he stuck with (the Ministry); I believe that when he made his decision, he sincerely believed that the Minister was right and Dumbledore was wrong and that his family had been deceived by Dumbledore (although he must have SOON learned that the Minister was corrupt). Marietta turned against the DA because she stuck with her family; she acted on the principle of family loyalty which Percy had been condemned (by listies) for breaking. 

It seems to me that Rowling made it utterly clear that she hates only traitors against the good guys, not traitors against the bad guys. In which case, the whole discussion of betrayal versus loyalty is a red herring; the real question is whether you serve the good guys or the bad guys.

Alla discussed CoS Chapter 5 in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188786>:

<< very angry Snape meets and greets them >>

One of the GREAT lines of the series that stupid Chris Columbus dropped from the movie. It starts with the boys seeing the Welcoming Feast through the window and Snape isn't at his place at the High Table. Harry asked: "Where's Snape?"

<< "Maybe he's ill!" said Ron hopefully.

"Maybe he's left," said Harry, "because he missed out on the Defense Against Dark Arts job again!"

"Or he might have been sacked!" said Ron enthusiastically. "I mean, everyone hates him -"

"Or maybe," said a very cold voice right behind them, "he's waiting to hear why you two didn't arrive on the school train." >>

<< 4. Snape implies that he would like to expel Harry. How can this be reconciled with the commitment to help Dumbledore protect Harry we saw him make in "The Prince's Tale"? >>

Easy. Snape was lying about expecting that Harry could be expelled. *waves to Zara and others* 

"Want" is a problem word. Catlady *wants* to shut off her alarm clock and go back to sleep, but *good* Catlady shuts off her alarm clock and gets out of bed, and goes to work on time, despite loudly and sincerely telling both cats how much I *want* to stay in bed instead of feeding them.

Julie wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188836>:

<< Which brings up an interesting point. It seems to me that Snape relinquished his demands that Harry be expelled at approximately the same time that Voldemort came to full body and power. At which time Snape would have realized that merely protecting Harry's life would not be enough; for Harry to survive the resurrected Voldemort he would need to learn things he could only be taught by wizards such as Dumbledore and himself, at Hogwarts. >>

Good point. Maybe Snape wasn't just venting when he spoke of Harry being expelled.

Pippin wrote in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188795>:

<< Are you sure it's Harry Snape would like to expel? The dialogue has Snape mostly replying to Ron. Snape doubtless thinks that if Weasley got expelled, Harry would get into trouble less often. That could account for his "Christmas had been cancelled" expression when the boys are let off. >>

I never thought of that! Poor Ron. 

Even if Snape's motive for wanting to expel Ron was his task of protecting Harry, his personal venom against Ron is just as sincere as his personal venom against Harry. It's always been a given that Snape disliked Ron for being a poor student, Harry's friend, and a Gryffindor. Perhaps Snape also took out on Ron some of his annoyance at Fred and George. (How could he NOT be annoyed at Gred and Forge?)

Carol still wondered in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/188832>:

<< how James learned Severus's nonverbal spell >>

I still believe Remus's statement that everyone was using Levicorpus on everyone that year. I'm sure it didn't leak from Lily, but instead leaked when Severus taught it to one or more of his Slytherin friends, who taught it throughout Slytherin House, and one or more Slytherins taught it to a Ravenclaw girlfriend or boyfriend, who taught it to more Ravenclaws...