no question (was Doing it for Lily? was Re: Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[nikkalmati]

No: HPFGUIDX 188884



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "potioncat" <willsonkmom at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > Alla:
> > Really? Well, I disagree. Plain meaning of Dumbledore asking Snape to convey the information which will lead to Harry's death and Snape doing it, means to me that Snape indeed doing it on Dumbledore's request. I am sure Snape can do mental gymnastics and convince himself that he is doing for Lily as well, since she would be happy if WW is saved, but to me that just does not fly. His boss asked him and that's what he does, it is very simple to me.
> 
> Potioncat:
> People aren't static; relationships, commitments and plans all evolve over time. 
> 
> We see a distraught Severus commit to living so that he can protect Harry to honor Lily's sacrifice. He's doing this for Lily at Dumbledore's urging.  During Harry's years at Hogwarts we see Snape trying to keep Harry safe. (Not that he has the best approach.) His main role is to keep Harry safe from LV; and in a few  years we will see Snape resume his role as double agent. His protection of Harry becomes making efforts to defeat the DEs. Defeating LV wasn't what he agreed to that first night. He follows DD's orders to that end. He even agrees to kill DD—and that certainly wasn't in the promise that first night.
> 
> In the conversation in which DD finally tells Snape that Harry must die, Snape says three times that he had been protecting Harry for Lily—with the final declaration the Patronus and "Always". (Three is a powerful number in Biblical terms---Do you love me, Peter?)
> 
> Imho, while the methods and outcomes changed over the years, Snape's motive was to protect Harry for Lily.  At the point in HBP that DD tells Snape what Harry must do, Snape's role becomes to protect Harry and to provide Harry with the tools to defeat LV. I think he's still doing it for Lily, and I think Lily approved of Snape's decision.  Lily, James, Remus and Sirius were supporting Harry as he went to face LV.
>

Nikkalmati

This topic highlights one of the problems I have with the series.  So many developments and so many emotional moments we should have seen occur off screen.  We don't know how Snape resolved the problem of discovering DD intended for Harry to be killed by LV.  Did he decide Lily would approve, if LV is destroyed, or did he decide it was too late to change the plan, or was he merely too used to following DD's orders to defy him?  

If we speculate that Snape approaches Minerva in DH with Harry nearby under the cloak and manages to complete his thought before she attacks him, he might have said "I have a message for Harry from Dumbledore."  If (an unlikely if) she listens to him, he would have to take Harry to his office to show him any memories.  Wouldn't it be better at that point to let Harry talk to DD's portrait?  It was always going to be extremely difficult to get this message to Harry through Snape and would Harry believe Snape anyway? I just have a lot of trouble imagining how it was supposed to work.  At any rate, I don't see that it was ever the plan to give Harry Snape's memories.  That result was Snape's last minute desperate attempt to save his mission before he died.  Apparently, DD expected Snape to find Harry, talk to him about what he knew and let Harry decide to sacrifice himself.  How likely was that to happen? 

Nikkalmati