Snape and Harry

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 188938


Alla:
>
> I guess I do not quite understand then how is belief that Harry should have
"shared his feelings of disgust for James behavior" is not the same as
demanding an apology from Harry for James' behavior.
*snip*
> It is still demanding from Harry to take responsibility for somebody else's
actions, is it not?

Ceridwen:
Not the same thing at all. Harry can share his feelings of disgust over the
action without apologizing for it. He can simply say, "Gee, that was really
mean of them. I'm disgusted." He can say the same thing to Ron and Hermione
without it being an apology, or to Dumbledore, or to Lupin, though if he said it
to Lupin there would be some judgment there because Lupin was involved. 
Judgment is not the same thing as an apology. Nor is sharing an opinion. <SNIP>



Alla:

This is also reply to Nikkalmati, since she seems to be saying similar thing. I just do not want to quote too much.

See, I think I understand and agree that it will not be an apology if he is saying it to anybody else, but if it is expressed to another party who is involved, I think in essence it is an apology, judgment that is, even if the words I am sorry are not said.

Like see below what I wrote to Pippin, does it make sense? I mean if for example I say to victim of robbery, I am disgusted over the actions of the person who robbed you. How is it not my apology for a robber, even if I am not saying the words `I am sorry'? I will ask you off list tonight, ok, probably I just need to wrap my mind around subtle language differences.

Not that I MIND Harry saying that. I just feel that it is extremely unfair burden to place on him while not placing any burden on Snape.

Ceridwen:
<SNIP>
I think that some readers regret the chance for some kind of reconciliation
between Harry and Snape was right there but the moment passed without it being
resolved. By sharing his disgust over James's actions Harry might have been
able to bridge the gap between him and Snape. <SNIP>

Alla:
Oh I get that and totally understand that, I also would not mind to see it, albeit in different context, I am just disagreeing with how this reconciliation is supposed to play out, you know?

Some Snape fans (I am generalizing because there are more than one of you guys in the thread and all of you are Snape fans,lol, so I do not mean every Snape fan under the moon) want Harry to share his disgust over his father's behavior in this scene, I for example may want Snape to show kindness to Harry in that scene that Montavilla and myself discussed from HBP, or I may want Snape to show kindness to Harry in PoA, or PS, or any other book,  you know?

In other words I want the party whom I consider really and truly guilty to START this reconciliation, not the boy who was unfairly attacked by that sad individual from the first lesson and oh surprise, this boy learned not to have any good feelings about this individual even when it is warranted.

Pippin:
When Dumbledore said, "You disgust me," he wasn't taking responsibility for
Snape's actions.
Alla:

Well, of course not, he was expressing how Snape's actions disgust him after all. But I do not think the analogy works, it is more like if Dumbledore would have told Harry I share your disgust  over Snape delivering prophecy to Voldemort IMO. I understand that Dumbledore does not say the words "I am sorry", but to me what he would be saying and even more importantly to whom he would be saying it is the equivalent of the apology, if that makes sense.

Pippin:
I will say in defense of Harry that Snape was in no mood to listen to him, not
that he ever was. 

Alla:

Right, to me I do not think that Harry needs any defense here, for not expressing the disgust, I mean, not for jumping in the pensieve.

Pippin:
The sad thing is that Snape never gave himself a chance to
know the real Harry, and never had a chance to let Harry know who he really was
(Dumbledore's man and Lily's friend) until the moment of his death.

Alla:

That I agree with of course, but it is Snape's loss as far as I am concerned, definitely Snape's loss. I know I said it before, but I will say it again, Snape could have had Harry's affection so so easily IMO, Harry was ready to love any father's figure, anybody who shows him a bit of kindness and Snape could have had a part of Lily at least liking him.  Instead this is how he treated the child of the woman he loved.