Doing it for Lily? was Re: Snape and Harry and expulsion LONG

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 188952

Carol earlier:
> > 
> > I think we can rule out that he was doing it for Harry, at least! But I agree with you that it would require mental gymnastics to convince himself that he was doing it for Lily. In effect, DD is now asking him to *stop* protecting Harry, as he has done since Lily's death so that her death will not be in vain, and send Harry to his death.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Right absolutely!
> 
> Carol:
> > Now why would Snape do that, when he's appalled by it and when he's already agreed against his will to kill Dumbledore? I don't think that loyalty to Dumbledore is a sufficient motive. He needs something stronger. The only motive that seems sufficient to me is the desire to destroy Voldemort forever. <SNIP>
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> And I totally understand that, honestly. I mean I do not like that the whole WW wanted one boy to save them and DD manipulated them, etc, etc, but I totally understand this desire.
> 
> All what I am asking is that we should call a spade a spade, you know?

Carol:
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. How so?

Alla: 
> It does not mean that I think that getting rid of Voldemort is a bad idea, I am just saying that what happened was Snape agreeing to send Harry to his death, which to me is the exact opposite to Snape continuing to protect Harry's life for Lily, who died to save her son's *life*.
> 
> I think we agree, but I am not sure, so I am sorry if we are not.

Carol again:

I don't think that Snape was agreeing to *send* Harry to his death so much as agreeing that he needed to know about the soul bit. Harry would have faced Voldemort, anyway, but I think that he would have tried to fight him rather than willingly sacrificing himself. Snape's information gives him that choice, and DD knows that Harry will make the right decision. It's no longer kill or be killed. It's vaporize Voldemort and start the whole process over again or be killed and make Voldemort mortal. (Of course, it's more complicated than that thanks to the love magic that saves Harry and weakens Voldemort's spells, but neither Snape nor Harry knows about that part.)

But Snape isn't sending Harry to face Voldemort because Harry would have done so, knowing that he would probably die, in any case. Snape is just giving Harry the final piece of the puzzle, the piece of information that tells him how to defeat Voldemort once and for all. And Snape knows just how crucial that information is, so crucial that he barely hears what Voldemort is saying about the Elder Wand until it's too late because all he wants to do is deliver that message to Harry so Harry can destroy Voldemort. And he performs a spectacular piece of wandless magic as he's dying to get that message to him (along with the essential elements of his life story so that Harry will understand *why* he's doing it) rather than attempting to save himself through healing magic.

Pippin may be right that the letter is crucial. It may help Snape to understand Lily's self-sacrifice and convince him that she would approve of her son's making a similar sacrifice. But, in any case, Snape knows long before he reads that letter that destroying the soul bit is the only way to make Voldemort mortal, and he knows that Harry has to have that information. Harry doesn't have to do what Dumbledore wants him to do. But he does have to make that choice, and he can't do that unless Snape delivers his message.

Carol, who still thinks that Snape would have given that message to Harry without reading Lily's letter but wonders how he could have done it had he not been dying