[HPforGrownups] Re: Forgiveness

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 188714

> Shelley:
>> I'm going to add in another thought, one that I had originally intended 
>> to
>> convey. The orphanage incident shows Riddle's first murder of an animal, 
>> but
>> at Hogwarts, again preHorcrux, he refrained from being a bully, 
>> controlled
>> himself and did not commit murder.
>
> Bart:
>    Moaning Myrtle might have an issue with that statement.

Shelley again:
But you are overlooking my point- 5 years is a long time not to show the 
symptoms of the disease....discovering the history of Hogwarts and the 
secret chambers that already existed before Riddle was even born was not 
necessarily the mark of a psychopath, is it? Could they be the actions of 
the Slytherin who bought into the pure blood extremism, and the actions of 
one who had the gift of talking to snakes by being an Heir? The mark of a 
gifted child who was persistent at digging into connections? (trying to find 
out who his relatives were and why he could speak Parceltongue?) But who's 
to say where pure-blood extremist actions would end and actual mental 
illness begins? (For that matter, was Slytherin mentally ill- he made the 
chamber for the Basilisk- Riddle merely set free the creature that lay 
within!)  What would make Riddle different from the others that might have 
murdered or directly harmed those who were not of pure blood? (My point, at 
this point in time of Riddle's life, I don't think he is any different from 
Slytherin, and that neither were mentally ill, no matter what ill wishes 
they had for Mudbloods.)

Here's some quotes (from the Harry Potter Lexicon) I see as supporting the 
gap in behavior, from the Orphan!Riddle description of being an odd boy who 
terrorized the other kids to the man who became Voldemort. The gap, as I see 
it, is a student at Hogwarts (for his first 5 years, at any rate) who could, 
and did, make an effort to behave himself and be a good student. Riddle was 
a Prefect, won a medal for Magical Merit, gained a gold shield-shaped award 
for "Special Services to Hogwarts", and was Head Boy. Clearly, people 
thought well of this boy, and didn't describe him as having a mental illness 
or obvious defect at all. According to Dumbledore, "He was one of the most 
brilliant students Hogwarts has ever seen" (CS18).

Dumbledore to Harry: "He disappeared after leaving the school ... traveled 
far and wide ... sank so deeply into the Dark Arts, consorted with the very 
worst of our kind, underwent so many dangerous, magical transformations, 
that when he resurfaced as Lord Voldemort, he was barely recognizable." 
(CS18)
(meaning, something had drastically changed- he was not the boy who they all 
knew from school)

Voldemort speaking: "I miscalculated, my friends, I admit it. My curse was 
deflected by the woman's foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon myself. 
Aaah ... pain beyond pain, my friends; nothing could have prepared me for 
it. I was ripped from my body, I was less than spirit, less than the meanest 
ghost ... but still, I was alive. What I was, even I do not know ... I, who 
have gone further than anybody along the path that leads to immortality. You 
know my goal - to conquer death. And now, I was tested, and it appeared that 
one or more of my experiments worked ... for I had not been killed, though 
the curse should have done it. Nevertheless, I was as powerless as the 
weakest creature alive..." (GF33)
(Voldemort mentions "my experiments, my goal to conquer death"- those goals 
and experiments alone do not mark one as having a mental illness- for 
Nicholas Flemmel, as did many others, sought immortality through the 
Sorcerer's Stone and horcurxes, since Voldemort was able to read about both 
in books at Hogwarts and even ask a teacher about them, so common was the 
subject of seeking immortality. Even the trio read about immortality 
(indirectly) on Chocolate Frog cards. I still venture that it might have 
been those experiments, those transformation while seeking and performing 
the Dark Arts, that lead to the behavior that we are calling mental illness. 
But my distinction would be not that he was always mentally ill, but rather 
as a side effect of working Dark Arts and therefore he could make a choice 
to venture off of it, the same way that Flemmel chose to give up his 
immortality by giving up control of the Sorcerer Stone.)

Also, his looks. In school, at 16-years of age: jet black hair (CS13); 
"tall, black-haired boy" (CS17); "handsome" (CS18); "dark" eyes (HBP).
But later,when Voldemort visited Dumbledore about 10 years after leaving 
school, he was no longer handsome. His deathly pale face looked "waxy and 
oddly distorted, and the whites of the eyes now had a permanently bloody 
look." (HBP20) It's my supposition that the outward changes in physical 
appearance mirror the destruction of the inner person as well, and that the 
more he dove into the Dark Arts and tearing apart his soul, the more his 
outward behavior matched that of a psychopath/sociopath (which every one you 
are choosing that seems to fit). The distinction, again as I see it, is that 
he wasn't always ill, but rather the illness was of his own choosing and 
making, and was a path he could have indeed chosen to walk away from, or not 
to continue towards. It's possible, that in the same way Dark Magic can 
create the illusion of a mental illness in a person who's drowning in it, 
the infusion of magically pure blood (Harry's) could create a magical window 
for redemption. After all, none of really know how the magical healers 
worked their magic in the series, since it's different than our modern 
treatments. I take that the potions being different for the Polymorph, 
reflecting the essence of the person (Harry was gold, Crab or Goyle tasted 
like bogies?) reflects the notion of just "who's" blood or body part you are 
using makes a whopper of a difference in outcome of the potion or spell you 
are working. So it makes sense to me that Harry's blood (touched and 
protected by love) would change Voldemort in a way he didn't predict, making 
redemption a possibility, even if Voldemort had never considered it before.

Kemper now:
He did show self-restraint except for that one time when he was playing with 
the basilisk.  But I get your meaning.  He presented well.  But I think you 
might want to consider what his motives were for displaying socially 
acceptable behavior.  The two possible motives we see for this are:
1. to deflect suspicion for negative bx (Basilisk, the Riddle murders)
2. to gain trust to gain information (horcrux)

Time frame- last year at Hogwarts, for the Horcruxes, Riddle murders. 
Clearly, playing the "good boy" would help to deflect suspicion of his 
connection with the Basilisk, but there still is that gap from his entry 
into Hogwarts until he sets the beast free (he said it took him 5 years to 
discover all those secrets) that is too long of a period to say that he had 
some pressing ulterior motive for "behaving".

Shelley