Forgiveness

[SteveE]

No: HPFGUIDX 188723


"nikkalmati" wrote:

"pippin_999" 
> >snip>
> > 
> > > 
> > > Steve replies:  Actually, Riddle wasn't even a borderline case.  Until the age of 18, he couldn't even be diagnosed accurately as having a sociopathic or psychopathic condition...the DSM-IV doesn't become valid til age 18 and until there is a pervasive pattern of that serious behavior. 
> > > >
> > 
> > Pippin:
> > That's a good point. One of the things JKR does very well is illustrate why it's impossible to diagnose this condition in teenagers. It's  hard to develop any systematic way of distinguishing between the behavior of a normal teen who's acting out and an abnormal one who's become good at concealing his condition. But that doesn't mean that the symptoms aren't there, they're just hard to identify as such. IIRC, the best indicator of troubled behavior in an adult is abnormal behavior in childhood, so the fact that we don't know how to diagnose this kind of abnormality in a teenager who behaved abnormally as a child probably doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. 
> > 
> 
> Nikkalmati:
> 
> I believe that Bart is correct when he says (more or less paraphrased) that in a work of fiction we have to look at the resources of the author and her POV.  I do not believe that JKR intended us to consult the medical criteria for LV.  She strives to show us from the beginning that LV-TR is abnormal, cruel and without conscience.  He kills the rabbit (someone's pet presumably) and irrepribly damages two children while at the orphanage.  The director seems glad to be rid of him, not because she does not like him, but because she is a bit afraid of him.  He conceals his magic, not so he will fit in, but so he can use it against people.  Unlike Harry and Hermione, he does not feel wierd for having magic; rather he feels superior.  
> 
> The story emphasizes his antecedents at length and shows his uncle and grandfather as antisocial and degenerate.  I believe she wants us to believe that LV is a product of his bloodline.  His genetic line is not superior, but inferior, and he has inherited his base nature.  Does this line in the story go against the "choices" theme?  It sure does, but it is not the only contradiction I see in the story.
> 
<SNIP>

Steve replies:  I agree that it is prudent and respectful of JKR to consider her own background and her POV on LV's overall mental states and motivations.  I agree w/ you and w/ Bart in this issue. However, Bart was citing Dr. Robert Hare's checklists of psychopathy to make his own interpretations of LV's exact psychological attributes, so I was countering those real life criteria w/ DSM-IV codes as well ss my own 30 years of clinical experience.  We both got off tangent abit w/ real life diagnosis of fictional characters mental maladies.  I imagine the DSM-IV handbook and Dr. Hare's PCL-R (and subsequent juvinile psychopathy criteria) would really have fun trying to factor in Horcrux's and other kinds of Dark magic.  I also doubt St. Mungo's Hospital uses either of them...lol.

As to LV being a product of his bloodline vs the "choices" theme, I have mixed emotions.  As a fantasy fan and reader, I can see JKR's points and can agree w/ the bloodline background as at least a partial prerequisite or contributing factor in LV's behavior.  As a therapist...I believe that we are responsible for the choices we make and it's those choices that we make that determine our fate. When a person becomes seriously mentally ill, then that illness impacts those choices we make and an indivicual's responsibility for his/her actions lessens.  

Take alcoholism for example.  A person initially makes consious choices to drink and after repeating those choices over a long period of time, eventually the drinking becomes a habit, the habit becomes the illness known as alcoholism, and that person's ability to make responsible conscious choices about drinking disappears.  W/ LV, even after the drop of Harry's blood, I think his degree of "craziness" was so firmly entrenched that even though he theoretically now had the ability for remorse, repentance and remorse as was mentioned was more symbolic than actually feasible for it to happen.