Why did Barty Crouch Jr join Voldemort?

[katherinemaurer at ymail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 189722

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" <puduhepa98 at ...> wrote:

> Nikkalmati
>
> I don't think anyone is going to be able to give you anything but theories.  I think that JKR wanted to show us an example of what happens when a dedicated fighter against evil forgets his own obligations and becomes excessively rigid.  I do beleive Barty felt ignored by his father and unable to get his attention, so he rebelled in the only way he could think of and joined the other side.  Crouch Sr was devestated, but I don't know that he felt any responsibilty.

katherinemaurer:

I guess that might be the best and general theory.

So, am I correct in saying that Barty "felt" like his father didn't love him, because he wasn't being loved. (This is where Sirius and several members of the public may have gone astray and thought that Crouch Sr. didn't care for his son.) Although, he did care for his son, as he was highly invested in him to become exactly like himself. He thought it was love, but it wasn't love. So, Barty Jr becomes rebellious, wanting to find acceptance of who he was (a loyal servant, not a leader/master) and his father has no idea why, if he was just "loving" him. In "loving" him he feels no responsibility, because he thinks what he was doing wasn't wrong. So he continues to use his so called "loving" techniques on his son, such as the imperius curse and is frustrated when it just keeps driving him away.

My theory as to why Barty Jr chose LV of all people to serve, (unlike someone like Ludo Bagman - Barty Jr was into Quidditch, he could have idolised him instead) was because in continuing to want to serve people like his father, he wanted to serve LV. Thematically, LV was the same as his father in their similar actions and ways of treating people/servants. LV, like Crouch Sr also inspired such great loyalty in his son, which added to LV's appeal.

What do you think about that? Do you think I'm right?



Also, considering you keep saying that you haven't read Elkin's posts in a while, I'll show you some snippets of some of her posts relating to Barty Jr joining LV. I've used parts of Elkins' theories to make my above theories, such as:

Message #47933 (about Crouch Sr. loving his son).

"I'm sure that Crouch believed that he loved his son," Elkins says. "I'm absolutely positive of that. I'm sure that he told himself that he was taking such pains to preserve his son's life not only to honor his wife's last wishes, but also because he truly and genuinely loved his son. But I'm not altogether convinced that Barty Crouch Sr. really understood the meaning of that word. I don't think that he really got that whole love concept any better than Voldemort does."

Message #47933 (about Crouch Sr. being thematically linked to LV).

"Voldemort presents as a father figure in the graveyard." she says again, very softly. "And he is strongly textually linked to Crouch Sr."

Message #47931 (about Crouch Sr.'s ability to inspire that he shares with LV).

"Crouch Sr. didn't deserve the kind of loyalty that he inspired in others, and he didn't have a very salutory effect on those who were drawn in by his charisma, or by the lies that he told."



But some of Elkins' posts, I don't understand. Do you think that you would be able to shed some light on them?

Message #47927

"...but I'd say that her son took after her in a lot more ways than just physical frailty."

"He didn't get her strength of resolve, though," points out Eileen.

"No. He didn't get her strength of resolve. Either of his parents' strengths of resolve, really. But then, you know, when you have someone who is an only child, a talented only child, an only child of a wealthy family, whose parents are both immensely devoted to each other, both highly invested in their child's performance, and who are both made of pure steel?"

Both Elkins and her hobby horse shudder violently. She reaches down to stroke the horse on the neck.

"It's often difficult for people with that sort of upbringing to develop any normal sense of self-assertion," she says quietly. "Or of independence. Or of individuation. Or even of identity, really. I think that the fact that Crouch Jr's parents were both so strong-willed probably had a lot to do with his dissociative tendencies. That's a family dynamic that often encourages a child to engage in some rather...indirect modes of expression."

Eileen frowns. "Indirect?"

"Indirect. Circuitous. Multiplicitous. Sly, sidelong, allusive. Kaleidoscopic. One might even say schizopathic. Somewhat schizophrenic modes of expression, Eileen. Double-edged statements. Hidden meanings. Concretized metaphor. And the tendency..."

Elkins' voice trails off. She glances out over the Bay, taking in the diverse vessels, the flying flags, all of the landmarks: the Canon Museum, the Canon College, the Weather Station, the Safe House. St. Mungos. The Garden of Good and Evil. She shivers convulsively and shuts her eyes.

"The tendency to get caught up in fantasy," she whispers. "To allow oneself to become subsumed. Subsumed into other people's desires. Subsumed into other people's personae."

and

Message #47931

"If Crouch was anything," says Elkins. "I'd say that he was too interested in his son. Way too interested in him. Unhealthily interested in him. Over-involved. Over-identified. I do think that Crouch was a terrible parental influence, but not because he was disinterested. Because he was over-identified. And also because of the falsehoods that he projected about himself. Falsehoods that his son took far too seriously."

"Charis Julia says that Crouch probably never bothered to explain right and wrong to Barty Jr," says Eileen. "She suggests that he simply delivered orders and expected his son to obey them without ever explaining his rationale for them. In the ever-so-brilliant Message 37769, she wrote:

    Unfortunately however this left Barty Jr not only resentful of his father's iron fist but also sadly susceptible to Voldemort's "There is no good and evil/only power and those too weak to seek it" persuasive little speech."

"Mmmmmm." Elkins shakes her head slowly. "I don't really think that I agree with that precisely," she says. "Not that I don't think that Crouch was a pretty tyrannical father, mind. I'm sure that he was. But I'm not sure that I see the same relationship that Charis does between Crouch's parenting style and his son's terrible decisions. For one thing, I don't see why we should assume that Voldemort used the exact same seduction speech with all of his followers. Was Barty Jr. really a 'power and the will to seek it' sort of person, do you think? I don't think that's quite the way his mind worked. After all, he told us what his greatest ambition was, didn't he? He told us when he was under the veritaserum. He said that his greatest ambition was to serve. To serve, and to prove himself worthy of service. In other words," she says. "He wanted to be as truly devoted to the service of some cause as his father, the supposed public servant, merely pretended to be."

"You aren't really trying to blame Barty Crouch Sr. for his son's decision to become a Death Eater," asks Eileen. "Are you, Elkins?"

"No, of course not. People have to make their own choices in the end, don't they? Not that Crouch Sr. believed in that, of course. I'm just pointing out the extent to which the falsehoods that Crouch projected about himself influenced his son's behavior, and in ways that really weren't healthy. It doesn't excuse Crouch Jr. for his bad decisions. He should have found a worthier cause to devote himself to. Much like Percy should have, actually. Or Winky, for that matter, although Winky didn't really have as much choice in the matter. Crouch Sr. didn't deserve the kind of loyalty that he inspired in others, and he didn't have a very salutory effect on those who were drawn in by his charisma, or by the lies that he told. Really, he seems to have corrupted or damaged or destroyed just about everyone that his life touched in one way or another. His son. His Aurors. Percy. Winky. Not to mention Bertha Jorkins! But most of all, the Wizarding World as a whole. Do you remember what I was saying before, about Crouch's relationship with his son?"

"You said that you thought that it reiterated on the personal level his political relationship with the wizarding world," answers Eileen.

"Right. Well, the reason that parricide and tyrannicide are so closely conceptually linked is because fathers and leaders are closely conceptually linked. Crouch had very much the same effect on his public as he did on his son, I'd say. He told lies that people believed, and the lies that he told were really very bad for them. We keep being told about how fearful and paranoid everyone was during the war, don't we? Sirius mentions it. Hagrid mentions it. Well, how do you think that they got that way?"

"Because Voldemort and his DEs were conducting a war of terror?"

"In part. But also because they were being encouraged to react that way by their own leaders. Paranoia like that is never a one-way street."

katherinemaurer who really wants to understand what Elkins was talking about.