[HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 16: Professor Trelawney's prediction

[Bart Lidofsky]

No: HPFGUIDX 190232

Zanooda:
> I still think that Buckbeak never lost his head. The kids only thought 
> he did, because they heard the thud of the executioner's axe and 
> assumed that Buckbeak was executed. In reality, the disappointed 
> executioner just swung his axe into the fence (into a pumpkin in the 
> movie) - Harry and Hermione witnessed it when they went back in time.

Bart:
     That's the point. Nothing was changed in Harry and Hermione's pasts 
at that point. One could envision a series of events:

1) Harry & Hermoine hear the axe fall, but do not actually see Buckbeak 
get killed. Pre-loop, Buckbeak DOES get killed, but H&H do not know 
about it.

2) H&H save Buckbeak. Time loop is created, in which H&H past still hear 
the axe fall, so future H&H's memories are correct ("theories" of what 
happens when you change your own past range from creating multiple 
memories which can eventually screw up your brain/mind, 
creating/transporting you to an alternate universe where there are now 
two of you, or simply you can't do it).

     The point is that since H&H did not know that Buckbeak was saved, 
it does not change anything in their own past.

    Rowling DOES give a clue that changing the past can create screwed 
up memories. It is implied that Dumbledore is aware that H&H can save 
Buckbeak, and gives them just enough information to do so without 
changing their own pasts. I will have to look it up, but I recall DD 
making a comment about the Pensieve which implies that he can use it to 
get rid of those bothersome double memories.

     To me, the bothersome detail is creating a "1st round" version of 
what happened to Harry when he was attacked by the dementors. There is 
no double memory, and there is still only one Harry, so the first time 
around Harry had to not only survive the dementors, but he would have 
had to have seen the Patronus Stag save him. Here are a few theories:

1) Harry was saved by some other means in round 1. However, this means 
that whoever saved him in the first place had to step down in round 2+, 
and would have needed a motive to do so.

2) In the Rowlingverse, the passed-on dead CAN sort of come back briefly 
for a sufficiently good reason (as DD does in DH). In round 1, James 
DOES come back briefly to save Harry; in Round 2+, Harry is briefly 
possessed/influenced by James which enables him to perform the Patronus. 
This is the theory I like, as it fits in best with the spirit of the books.

3) Rowling sacrificed internal consistency for a better story (I think 
this is the correct theory).

     Bart