[HPforGrownups] Harry's alleged debt to Dumbledore and Snape WAS: Re: Chapter Discussion

[Margaret Fenney]

No: HPFGUIDX 190797

> > Alla:
> >
> > I have to admit that the idea that Harry owes personal debt to
> *Dumbledore* of all people and Snape too shocked me so that I want to make a
> separate post out of it. Below is the list of possible reasons Why Harry may
> owe personal debt to Dumbledore and of course it is a bit sarcastic, but it
> is at the same time not really, it is just so very unbelievable to me
> because I can only list the wrongs Dumbledore did to Harry and nothing that
> Dumbledore did FOR Harry at all.
>
> <snip>
>
> > But Harry owing anything to *Dumbledore*? I think if Dumbledore would
> have stood in front of Harry on his knees for eternity he would have never
> paid the debt for life of pain and abuse he subjected Harry to and for death
> he wanted him to die.
>
> > Pippin:
>
> > I've snipped most of your points since I've discussed them in the past. I
> think you're already aware of my views <g> If not I'll happily elaborate
> ::groans from remaining listies::
>
> > Regardless of your opinion, which of course I respect even though I
> disagree with it, Harry in canon does not think that Dumbledore wanted him
> to die. King's Cross leaves no doubt that Harry believes > Dumbledore is (or
> would be, if you think it is all in Harry's head) radiant with satisfaction
> that Harry is alive.
>
> > Dumbledore wanted Harry to *think* he had to die, that he had been raised
> like a pig for slaughter, so that Harry could use the magic of willing
> sacrifice to protect his friends. That is what Dumbledore > did FOR Harry,
> nothing much if you think Harry getting his heart's desire is not important.
> It entailed a lot of pain for Harry, and Dumbledore acknowledged that. But
> Dumbledore had never told him that > it wouldn't.
>
> > Harry's heart's desire was not to be a mighty wizard and see all his
> enemies groveling at his feet. Nor was it to live a life on the run or under
> guard while other people waged the battle to protect him.
>
> > Harry's desire was to be just as he was and surrounded by people who
> loved him. And it was Dumbledore who saw that, and was willing to teach
> Harry what he needed to know to achieve it.
>
> > Maybe debt is not the right word -- it is not that Harry was doing
> something to make himself quits with Dumbledore and Snape. I think he felt
> that, as horribly flawed as they were, they were > >
> > respectively the best and the bravest men he ever knew, so it was not
> just a public duty but a personal privilege to honor them. Noblesse oblige.
>
> > Pippin
>
> Bookcrazzzy:

I think this was very well put and it was my thought also that naming a
child after someone is most often done to honor them rather than to
acknowledge a debt.

I don't think that DD was raising Harry for slaughter nor that DD thought
so.  He wasn't going to tell Snape the whole story though, so he didn't
disabuse Snape of the idea when he spoke of it.

Another thing I would like to ask those who believe that DD was abusive to
Harry:  what do you think he should have done and how would it have "saved"
Harry or the WW?

I would also like to add some of the things that JKR has had to say about DD
(from Accio Quote!):

Dumbledore is the "epitome of goodness." [Read the exact quote from CBC Hot
Type, 2000<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/0700-hottype-solomon.htm>
]

"Dumbledore often speaks for me." [Read the exact quote from the Chamber of
Secrets DVD, 2003<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2003/0302-newsround-mzimba.htm>
]

If JKR needs to tell the readers something, she lets Hermione or Dumbledore
say it. [Read the exact quote from the Chamber of Secrets DVD,
2003<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2003/0302-newsround-mzimba.htm>
]

Albus means white and wisdom.  [Read the exact quote from Royal Albert Hall,
2003 <http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2003/0626-alberthall-fry.htm>]

"I don't want to give too much away, but Dumbledore is a very wise man who
firstly knows Harry is going to have to learn a few hard lessons to prepare
him for what maybe coming in his life, so he allows Harry to do a lot of
things he wouldn't normally allow another pupil to do and he also
unwillingly permits Harry to confront a lot of things he'd rather protect
him from but as people who have finished Order of the Phoenix will know,
Dumbledore has had to step back a little bit from Harry in an effort to
teach him some of life's harder lessons." [Read the exact quote from Royal
Albert Hall, 2003<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2003/0626-alberthall-fry.htm>
]

Dumbledore's "wisdom has isolated him ... where is his equal, where is his
confidante, where is his partner?" [Read the whole quote from the Leaky
Cauldron, 2005<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-1.htm>
]

Dumbledore regretted that it was he "who had the burden of knowing." He
would "rather not know." [Read the whole quote from BBC-Radio4,
2005<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/1205-bbc-fry.html>
]

Bookcrazzzy


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