[HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore

[Margaret Fenney]

No: HPFGUIDX 190882

>Joey:
>True. In fact, Hermione and Ron could have been killed too! It was really
annoyingly crazy of him to have trusted his "grand plan" so much. However,
the extent of his secrecy seems to be as risky and dangerous. He could have
updated a chosen few who are not emotionally attached to Harry?


Bookcrazzzy:

DD’s “grand plan” was an understanding of the ancient magic, horcruxes and
hallows, coupled with his understanding of the character, strengths and
weaknesses of LV, HRH and other key players like Snape.  It was *NOT* a
grand plan anywhere near down to the level of these details.  And he didn’t
*expect* everything to happen in a certain way and in a certain sequence, he
only *hoped* that it would end with LV’s death.  He did what he could to
“stack the deck” toward that end.  He was not a *god* with the power to see
into the future nor was he all-knowing.


> Pippin:
> DE's and ministry officials questioned the Weasleys and everyone who might
know where Harry was. While Harry believed that no Order member would
voluntarily betray him, there's still legilimency, veritaserum, the Imperius
curse, torture and emotional blackmail.

>Joey:
>Agreed. Now you mention it, I'm wondering how none of the new Order members
were affected by any of these. Yet the DEs & ministry officials wouldn't be
able to ask the right questions - they didn't know about the Horcruxes
themselves All they can ask is about Harry's whereabouts and they were doing
it anyway.



Bookcrazzzy:

They can ask what Harry is doing can’t they?  No one was immune to the
actions that Pippin listed.  I am shocked that people suggest Snape should
have been told everything!  Both he and DD knew that LV might break through
his defenses at any point.  Regardless of Snape’s loyalty, skill and
determination, he was in an extremely dangerous and extremely risky
situation.  As to other members of the order, DD could not know what any of
them would do if they knew but he could surmise that there would be a strong
tendency (the strongest with Molly) for any of the adult, once they knew
about the horcruxes, to take control of the task from Harry, not just help
him.  None of the, with the possible exception of Sirius, saw HRH as capable
of leading such an effort.  Harry needed to be the one calling the shots.

> Pippin:

> Dumbledore didn't use a tongue tying curse on Harry or put the information
about the horcruxes under the Secret Keeper spell. Harry always had the
option of passing as much information to others as he thought was safe. But
Harry had learned by this time that he was a poor judge of whom to trust:
Quirrell, Riddle, Scabbers, Fake!Moody, Marietta and the Half-blood Prince
all caught him completely off guard. It's only when he found that Dumbledore
betrayed him too (as he thought) that Harry realized the mistake he'd been
making: unlike Dumbledore, he'd trusted people he didn't really know.

>Joey:
>But he did ask Harry not to confide in anybody other than Ron and Hermione.

 Bookcrazzzy:

Yes, that is exactly what Pippin said, he *asked* Harry, he did not force
Harry nor restrict him.  The bottom line was that Harry could have told
others and could have asked for help.  Indeed he finally did so at
Hogwarts.  By asking Harry not to do so, DD made sure that Harry wouldn't
without giving it the most careful thought and only if absolutely necessary.


> Pippin:

> All the portraits were in on DD's plan, and some of them have images
elsewhere, so there was a backup even if Hogwarts was destroyed or Snape
died before he could get his information to Harry.

>Joey:
>But how powerful and effective is this backup? It was sheer luck that
Phineas Nigellus's portrait was in the beaded bag and that was the only
portrait that had a connection with GP. DD must have known that Harry would
not do his 7th year in Hogwarts with such a daunting, life-impacting task
ahead of him; he planned to die but he never told Harry to maintain contacts
with his portrait (or the rest) in case of his death.


Bookcrazzzy:

DD died before telling Harry all that he planned to tell him.  How often
have you said or read “DD must have known…” when the subject was future
events?  HOW could DD have known?  Did he know what the Ministry was going
to do in the future or what any individual was going to do? Did he know how
any one event would impact subsequent events?  Did he know who would die and
when? NO.  He could have told Harry to confide in a particular member of the
order and that person could have been killed the same night that DD died.   He
knew about the bond between LV and Harry, he knew the gaps in LV’s knowledge
and weaknesses in his character and he knew Harry, respected his strengths,
believed in his values and abilities, and recognized his weaknesses.  Could
he have done things differently or better?  Of course.  He wasn’t perfect by
any means.  But he didn’t have the power to see into the future and to map
the acts and interactions of all of the players.  He didn’t even know what
all of the horcruxes were or their locations.  Of course HRH could have died
at any number of points along the way, Snape could have been compromised,
people of the Order could have been captured or killed, the list goes on
forever!  DD was responsible for his own actions, not for everything that
happened.  He was only one human being with faults of his own.


Bookcrazzzy


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