Dumbledore/LONG and bad, SKIP if you do not feel like reading it :-)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 191033



I am cutting out points which I feel I have said everything I wanted for this round, but I am sure it will come again soon :)

> Pippin:
> So where is the canon that anyone thought Voldemort was a mystery creature and that's why they couldn't fight him? They couldn't fight him because everybody who tried got killed. 
> 
>  Harry concludes that giving yourself a fancy title and trying to hide your past  just shows how pathetic you are. Even Frank Bryce wasn't impressed by this "Lord" business. But that didn't save him.


Alla:

Canon is that Dumbledore gives the lesson about fear of the name only increases fear of the person. But he does not teach to call him his proper name. Yes, they are afraid of his killing skills, but first and foremost they are afraid of his name, no? I think that this fear at least could have been easily diminished by Dumbledore.

 
> 
> > Alla:
> > . To me the bigger problem is that nowhere in the book as far as I can see it says that Dumbledore could not visit Dursleys and put considerable pressure on them to treat Harry better. And no, I do not care how much threat of blackmail and/or physical damage he would apply to make Dursleys obey him. He took a responsibility upon himself to rule the fate of the innocent baby, and if he can only protect him by threatening Dursleys, I say so be it. As I also mentioned before, we see that Petunia obeys the letter in OOP, period. I do not see why he could not do the same thing decade earlier. 
> > In other words the choice you are describing is a false dishotomy for me, because I interpret that Dumbledore COULD make Harry's life easier even with Dursleys and did not do so. The pain and damage in my view was not necessary to keep Harry safe. I mean, to take Dursleys in his life, maybe, but not to tolerate the way they treated Harry. 
> 
> Pippin:
> LOL! This was precisely Dumbledore's reasoning when he and Grindelwald were going to force the Muggles  into submission along with any wizards who didn't agree with what they were doing -- it was all going to make life easier for Arianna and she wouldn't have to be locked away any more. 
> 
> Only it didn't work. Dumbledore learned he could not predict when people will decide they have had enough and strike back against a tyrant and there is no predicting who is going to get hurt once a battle begins. Dumbledore never thought his own brother would oppose him, he never thought Grindelwald would lose control of himself, he didn't think *he* would lose control of himself, and he never thought Arianna would get involved in the fight. 
> 
> So maybe you can predict  that  the Dursleys would never find a way to fight back and never decide that Harry wasn't worth the trouble of keeping him, and maybe you trust that Dumbledore or someone he trusted would never lose control of themselves and hurt Harry by accident  -- but Dumbledore knows he's not so skilled. Divination is not his strong suit. 
> 
> And you said yourself that the worst of it was that other wizards were influenced by what Dumbledore  planned to do. That would be a nice example for Lucius -- Albus Dumbledore demonstrating exactly how you can torture Muggles and get the Ministry to approve. 


Alla:

No. I would never say that he should go near Dursleys and do anything to them, if he did not place Harry with them. Actually I have not even said that he should torture him. But threatening with anything he thinks will make them obey - ABSOLUTELY. Lesson or not, Harry is the only one truly innocent here, and protecting a baby in my mind trumps anything else. As you know my other problem with protection always had been that I have not seen that other methods did not work, at least show me Dumbledore trying something else and reconsidering. But if he decides that yeah, only Lily's protection may work, have a decency to actually protect him from abuse, at least try to IMO. 

In other words, to me Dumbledore's self appointed duty to Harry should trump every other consideration.

> Pippin:
> LOL. Harry is the most famous person in the WW and inquiring minds want to know how he survived the killing curse. Give them half a chance and they'll  try to examine Harry  whether Dumbledore lets them  or not. I always wondered why Dumbledore didn't have Harry checked out by a healer when he started complaining about his scar. 

Alla:

I am sure those inquiring minds you are talking about still wanted to know that when Harry arrived in WW, I do not remember them succeeding.