[HPforGrownups] Re: Love, Hate, Joy, Despair---the Greatest is Love

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 191096


Hey! I can't read as much as I used to, but I've been scanning the posts
lately and there's just not enough Snape. We can't have that. So here's some
thoughts in response to Pippin's lovely post (still so eloquent!).

Forgive me, Pippin, I rearranged some of your paragraphs, but only to use
your phrasing in the proper place in the argument.

> Pippin:

> Snape loves Lily, always, but again in a very selfish way.

AG:
Okay, I'll grant you that this was true at first--descriptions in The
Prince's Tale such as "he watched her greedily" pretty much make that clear.
He wants her, this lovely beautiful girl so unlike anything in his world,
and his feeling is undeniably possessive.  This is selfish love. 

And it still is, when they are teenagers:
	"Snape's whole face contorted and he spluttered, "Saved? Saved? You
think he was playing the hero? He was saving his neck and his friends' too!
You're not going to--I won't let you--"
	"Let me? Let me?
	Lily's bright green eyes were slits.  Snape backtracked at once.
(DH American, p. 674)

The possessiveness is clear, still.  But...but Snape grew up. His love
matured. You can see part of the transition in his conversation with
Dumbledore: 

	"If she means so much to you," said Dumbledore, "surely Lord
Voldemort will spare her? Could you not ask for mercy for the mother, in
exchange for the son?"
	"I have--I have asked him--"
	"You disgust me," said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much
contempt in his voice.  Snape seemed to shrink a little. "You do not care,
then, about the deaths of her husband and child? They can die, as long as
you have what you want?"
	Snape said nothing, but merely looked up at Dumbledore.
	"Hide them all, then," he croaked. "Keep her--them--safe. Please."
	"And what will you give me in return, Severus?"
	"In--return?" Snape gaped at Dumbledore, and Harry expected him to
protest, but after a long moment he said, "Anything."
(DH American, pp. 677-678).

Okay, here's where I rearrange your paragraphs, because I think it's
relevant that you said:

> Pippin:
  
> Selfish characters who love go right on being selfish -- unless something
> happens to make them see that their selfishness offends or hurts their
> beloved. It is remorse and not love that is the catalyst for change. But
> that is a choice -- it is always possible to avoid remorse by blaming the
> damage on others or refusing to admit that damage is being done.

and
> 
> Selfish love cannot distinguish the needs of the beloved. 

AG:
So I fully agree that Snape was exhibiting selfish love in his childhood and
teens, but in his maturity, it is far from that.  Something happened to make
him see how his selfishness offends and could hurt his beloved; he learned
to distinguish the needs of the beloved.

We see a key transition point captured in the memory--he is putting Lily's
safety before his own desires, even if it means letting her live to continue
loving and being with a man Snape hates (with reason, but that's another
thread).

Remember--Snape had already appealed for Lily to the strongest power in the
world he gave his allegiance to--the most powerful Dark wizard.  And there
is every evidence in canon that Voldemort told Snape that he would spare
her--he did try to get Lily to stand aside, more than once, before he killed
her.  Snape had already gotten the answer he wanted from Voldemort.  And
still he went to Dumbledore, endangering himself and putting his own desires
at risk, because he thought there still could be a chance that she would be
harmed. 

Further recognize that in this moment, when Snape says "Hide them all,
then," he has just had to accept, forever, that Lily will never be his.
Voldemort had told him he could have her. He could have stopped there--and a
selfish love would have been happy with that, would have wanted the woman no
matter what and taken the chance of loss to get what it wanted. But
Voldemort's word was not enough for Snape, and he appealed to Dumbledore as
well, because any chance of harm to her was too much. 

And one thing more. He did not simply make the noble sacrifice--let Lily go,
respect her choice without anger, and consider his job was done by passing
on the warning.  No, Snape *paid* for it, his choice caused him pain and
then he offered Dumbledore anything he wanted to take to pay it, for not
only Lily's safety but her future happiness.  Even if it did not contain
him.  Even if she never knew.  Simply because she would be safe.

And then after she died--even further beyond him--he is still true to his
love, and acts to protect her son.  He does not do it gently--but he does it
well. Because Lily would have wanted her son safe. He is devoted enough to
his memory and love of Lily that he is outraged with Dumbledore when he
finds that Harry must die. And then he successfully transposes his love even
further--from his love for this one woman, manifested as guarding her
son--to give his life for what she had believed in and fought for.

This is depth, this is growth.  These are not the acts of selfish love.

~Amandageist
Premier Snapologist
:D