Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Pron

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 190496





.> Julie:
> I think one person makes it pretty clear that Sirius did intend to set up Snape, and that person is James. James found out that Snape was headed for the Shrieking Shack and he could have only found out one of two ways. Either he followed Snape (unlikely as the "spying" seemed to be the other way 'round) or Sirius told him (alluded to in the books). Which means Sirius told Snape about the Shack (whether that included goading or not) *knowing* that Snape would go there.

Alla:

No, I do not think it does mean that, actually. Of course Sirius told Snape how to get there (or alluded as you said)!  My point is that to tell somebody how to get some place dangerous and then such person entirely of its own free will went there does not in my view equals setting Snape up, setting a trap for him, etc, etc.  Sirius had no business telling Snape that, but Snape and only Snape chose his fate that night and whatever thoughts Sirius entertained about how it will end does not change that Snape went there on his own. Add to this that at the very least he suspected that Remus is changing there.


Julie:

> I suspect Sirius intended to scare the bejeesus out of Snape ("Ha ha, James, wait till Snivellus gets a look at what's waiting for him! He won't be spying on us again soon once he pisses his pants all the way back to the dungeons!"), but it seems apparent that he didn't much care if worse happened. I can only assume James would have said something before he ran off to the Shack to save Snape (and Lupin), along the lines of "What have you done, Sirius? Mooney will KILL Snape!" and yet Sirius didn't go with James (or instead of James). I can only assume Sirius figured if Snape had died then he deserved what he got for being so nosy, as Sirius did imply again some 20 years later in POA. 

Alla:

Sure, or Sirius wanted him dead indeed, goodness knows *I* was very happy when he was dead, so I would understand Sirius perfectly well. I mean from within the story of course and because of what he did to Harry and his family, not at this time, but hey maybe Sirius had a time turner and saw Snape blabbing prohecy to Voldemort :-) ( also see below), but to me Sirius' mindset was always completely irrelevant to the point I am making and which was quite often met with but "being nosy does not deserve death". And who claims otherwise? Of course being nosy does not deserve death, but maybe Snape should have been the one to think about it as well?



Julie:
> Snape was stupid to walk into a situation he knew so little about, and when what little information he had came from an enemy no less. Stupid, and arrogant and no doubt blinded by his desire to find evidence that would take down the Mauraders. But Sirius clearly was deliberately setting up his enemy to take a fall, and Lupin as well, though probably with lack of forethought of the ultimate consequences for both.


Alla:

See, this I never understood in all years we debated Prank and never will. As I said, while I am more likely to conclude that it was indeed teenage idiocy, I am more than willing to entertain the possibility that Sirius wanted Snape dead. I do not buy it, but it is entirely possible, unfortunately we will never know what was in his head. But saying that Snape was just stupid to walk into the situation and Sirius was deliberately setting him up for a fall to me assumes that Snape is just less responsible for his own choices than Sirius for his. Did Sirius drug him there? No, quite the contrary. Sirius answered the question Snape was dying to know. But there is to me absolutely no way that Sirius is in any way responsible for Snape's *choice* to go there. He divulged the information that he had no business to speak of, and I absolutely agree he was setting *Remus* for a fall, hopefully not deliberately, but who cares? Remus had no choice whatsoever, but to be the part of it, Snape had all the choice in the world.

Julie:
> Also, despite Dumbledore's ability to keep Snape silent about Lupin's true nature (easy enough with a mere threat of expulsion--Lupin goes then Snape also goes), I can't see that Snape went to the Shrieking Shack to kill Lupin. Snape even as a teenager is smart and a voracious researcher, so if he went there to kill a werewolf he certainly would have taken something with him to do the job, and would have been prepared to protect himself at all costs. He would never have been caught so flat-footed, only surviving by the quick actions of his most erstwhile enemy, James Potter. Makes no sense at all, IMO. 


Alla:

It makes perfect sense to me, but of course I see Snape in less charitable light than you do, I mean to show Lily indeed that he was right what was in there and to be a hero? He was dying to catch Sirius and to be a hero, no? Also he seemed to think of himself as master of DADA, so to me it will be perfectly in character for Snape to want to show what he can do and kill the "dark creature" with spells. And what would you think he should have taken with him besides his wand and his knowledge of the spells?

JMO,

Alla