Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Pron

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 190512



.> Pippin:
<SNIP>
.>  In any case, saying that Sirius set Snape up in no way absolves Snape of responsibility for his rule-breaking, any more than it clears someone of a murder charge to say that someone else helped him do it. 

Alla:

But it does to me. I mean not the way you are usually describing it, I may agree or disagree with some particulars with you, but not on this point, but Carol's post clearly summarized of POV which always baffled me and always will. 

I think "Sirius knew that Snape will take the dare" is the gist of the argument with which I am most vehemently disagreeing. Sirius took some legilimency classes and did it to Snape? Because unless there is a proof of that there is absolutely no way he *knew*. He may have had a pretty good idea, he may have suspected, but choice to go there was Snape and only Snape's eventually. Nobody put a gun to his head and said "you must go there".  As long as we agree that nobody took away Snape's choice whether to go there, I have absolutely, positively no desire to absolve Sirius of anything else you want to throw him on, especially since again we do not know what was in his head that night and sadly never will. You want to say that he wanted to kill Snape that night, or at least hoped so because he hoped Snape will go there, and I will say, sure it is possible. I was hoping to hear for sure that he did not, but canon is closed, so of course it is possible. But he did not know, he did not know that Snape will go there.
 
Pippin: 
> They don't seem to have attorneys at criminal trials in the wizarding world. I'm not sure they have lawyers at all...maybe it's considered too mundane an occupation for a wizard.  

Alla:

Of course, but the only reason I brought it up is because real world legal comparisons were already brought up, I surely do not think there is a very close correlation. So I was talking about what would have happened with some close enough situation in real world, not in WW.

Pippin: 
> The procedures at Harry's hearing are more Alice in Wonderland than Law & Order, IMO. Albus declares himself a witness for the defense, although he didn't witness anything, and then calls in Mrs. Figg as a witness summoned by the accused although Harry didn't summon her. 


Alla:

Agreed, but again I was talking about real world, not WW.

Pippin: 
> But considering the way juries in the WW decide things, it would be a question of whether the defense could make the image of charming, loyal, promising Sirius prevail over  the image of the swaggering, scheming, unrepentant bully.  That might be a tall order.  The arrogant ways that so impressed Sirius's classmates wouldn't go over well in court. 


Alla:

Yes, but if we would talk about something similar in real world, what I meant is how very very easy would be to bring reasonable doubt in. Incredibly easy. 

Pippin: 
> But we don't have to decide which one was the real Sirius...they both were. That is JKR's point.
.

Alla:

I am not trying to and I agree with you.