Religion in the Wizarding World.

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 191394



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn@> wrote:
> 
> bboyminn: 
> > Do you assume Harry was baptized BECAUSE he has a Godfather? Those things are not necessarily tied together....
> 
> Geoff:
> In this, I would disagree.  Infant baptism in the UK is mainly carried out ....– more of that later.
>
> Hence I would agree with Nikkalmati that the assumption can be made 
> that Harry was baptised. ...
> 

bboyminn:

Keep in mind that I'm not saying Baptism/Godparent don't go together or that Harry was not baptized. I'm saying the two don't necessarily go together. I'm further saying that the applying of the term "god parent" can be somewhat generic and in some case simply means guardian. Further, in some cases is not done at the time of Baptism. 

Take Harry as an example, he is god father to Lupin's son. Which really just makes him the guardian of last resort. If no one is around to take care of Lupin's son, then the duty falls on Harry. But, no mention of religion or baptism in the process. 

Again, I'm not saying Harry wasn't baptized nor that Sirius was not appointed 'guardian of last resort' at that time. I'm simply saying that the two events are not necessarily tied together; usually - yes, but not necessarily. 

>Geof continues -
>
> Whatever may be the spiritual standpoint of anyone reading the 
> book, JKR  here indicates a Christian viewpoint writ large. ..
> 

bboyminn:

But that is because JKR is a Christian who lives in a largely Christian world (meaning the UK). But, I still say the underlying spiritual and moral messages are universal. The concepts are not limited to Christianity, but share by Hindu, Buddhists, and others. 

Note that while she mentions the values of Christ, she does not mention Christ. Further, I agree she does show some Christian iconography in the stories, but then what else would you expect from a culture that has been dominated by Christianity for centuries? 

I'm not denying the spiritual and moral underpinning, I'm just saying that they are not specifically promoted as Christian. 


> bboyminn: 
> > Further, keep in mind that the UK and EU are both more secular than the USA. The extent of many people's religion is confined to baptism, weddings, and funerals. It is entirely possible that much of the wizard world follows this same secular model. 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Finally, I think JKR intentionally wrote a secular book. She did not want to inject religious bias into the story. ....
> 
> Geoff:
> I think that you have made an unfortunate connection which I 
> frequently try to undo in my discussions about Christianity in 
> that you are considering "religion" to be the same as "faith". 


bboyminn:

On your views on "religion" vs "faith" and on "Christianity" vs "Churchianity", on general principle I agree. But while JKR may be promoting Christian values, she is not specifically promoting Christianity. 

Certainly, if you are Christian, and you see these values, you logically connect them together. But I also think a Buddhist can equally connect the values seen to their own faith. The values reflected are universal, but they take place in a culture dominated by a long Christian history. 

While the two should not be too tightly bound, neither should the obvious connection be ignored. 

.... 
> 
> Geoff:
> As I said earlier, it does not overtly promote Christianity but 
> for those who care to look -  and to see - there are themes which
> are certainly basically Christian.
>

bboyminn:

We don't have to agree on this matter, but I think the underlying themes are universal, but set in a framework in which the Christian underpinnings can't be ignored. We do see Nuns and Friars, but we don't see Buddhist or Hindu priests, even though we may well see Buddhists and Hindus. The story, and the framework of the history of the world can not be separated from the world in which they take place. 

So, that what religion we do see, obviously reflects Christianity based on the history of the UK alone. That can't be escaped, but the values espoused in the story, I contend are universal. 

Feel free not to agree. 

Steve/bluewizard