From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 2 16:55:36 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 2 Oct 2011 16:55:36 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 10/2/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1317574536.42.10631.m1@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191357 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday October 2, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From huntergreen3 at aol.com Tue Oct 4 03:27:21 2011 From: huntergreen3 at aol.com (huntergreen3 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:27:21 -0000 Subject: The Nature of the Dark Mark Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191358 This post is brought to you by my nine-year-old son. He asked me if polyjuiced-Hermione-as-Bellatrix would have the dark mark and if she would be able to summon Voldemort. I don't think she'd be able to summon Voldemort, whether or not she had the dark mark, since I think there's more to it than just "pressing" the mark. However, I am confused about if it would appear on polyjuice!Hermione. It doesn't operate like a tattoo or scar that is consistent, it can fade away, and it gets hotter/brighter when "in use". I wonder then, how exactly it works, and if it would transfer the way other attributes transfer with polyjuice. Perhaps all tattoos (if they exist) in the wizarding world are "magical" in this sort of way, maybe they can be hidden from certain people, or move magically, and if so that would make me think the dark mark *would* appear on Hermione, since its just another shade of tattoo. But the way the dark mark "knew" Voldemort was getting stronger during Goblet of Fire points toward it being connected to Voldemort somehow (which would jive with it being an honor to get the mark, and having to be a select DE). If its a piece of Voldemort (in a sense), than it couldn't just replicate itself onto Hermione, could it? -Rebecca From bart at moosewise.com Tue Oct 4 03:43:30 2011 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:43:30 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Nature of the Dark Mark In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E8A80E2.6060908@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191359 Rebecca: > This post is brought to you by my nine-year-old son. He asked me if polyjuiced-Hermione-as-Bellatrix would have the dark mark and if she would be able to summon Voldemort. I don't think she'd be able to summon Voldemort, whether or not she had the dark mark, since I think there's more to it than just "pressing" the mark. Bart: This actually brings up a more interesting question: did Hermionatrix have the dark mark when she was polyjuiced? We do have a clue, however: Nobody saw the dark mark on Bartmoody, and there was nothing mentioned about him taking any trouble keeping his arms covered. Therefore, my best guess is that the Dark Mark was not visible, whether or not it still works (and that Hermionatrix had a visible, but probably non-working, Dark Mark. Bart (no relation) From huntergreen3 at aol.com Tue Oct 4 06:30:21 2011 From: huntergreen3 at aol.com (huntergreen3 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 02:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Nature of the Dark Mark Message-ID: <96cb8.6b725452.3bbc01fd@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191360 Bart wrote: >>Nobody saw the dark mark on Bartmoody, and there was nothing mentioned about him taking any trouble keeping his arms covered. Therefore, my best guess is that the Dark Mark was not visible, whether or not it still works (and that Hermionatrix had a visible, but probably non-working, Dark Mark.<< Rebecca: (love "Hermionatrix", by the way) I didn't think about Barty Jr.'s dark mark when he was Bartmoody. There isn't any mention of his arms, as far as I can remember. As a teacher, though, how often would his arms be exposed? IF it was there, it could have easily remained covered the whole year without any suspicion. Also, if it was appearing on Bartmoodys arm, he wouldn't know right away as the mark was still completely gone when initially turned into Moody (as in, he wouldn't notice it disappearing when he changed, since it was already gone to begin with). In a related thought, do you think that he woke up every hour to take the potion, or did he let himself turn back into Barty Jr while he slept? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bboyminn at yahoo.com Wed Oct 5 06:39:57 2011 From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 06:39:57 -0000 Subject: Chapter Disc: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191361 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" wrote: > > ... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > GoF Chapdisc 2: The Scar > > This chapter begins with Harry waking up in his room at the Dursleys' with his > scar hurting him. He also has had a dream about Voldemort. Unknown to him, he > has seen in his head the events recorded in the first chapter. Harry wonders > what it means and what he should do about it. He reviews what Hermione and Ron > would say and concludes he can't tell Dumbledore about such a minor thing. He > then remembers Sirius and decides to write him to ask his advice. There is > very little action in this chapter, but it sets the stage for future events. We > are introduced to Harry's ability to see into LV's mind. > > > > 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events of the first three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a review? Do you think she thought she would have new readers who did not know the first three books? > Steve: I think JKR was right to give a quick summary of how we got to this point in the story. She has no way of knowing at the point, how many reader have been following the story form the beginning, nor how often dedicated reads have read the stories. So, a quick summary makes sense in the early stages of the sage. But I also think she was right to stop doing that in later books. Once the story advances so far, you've either been following along or you haven't, and if you haven't then you are justifiably lost in trying to follow an epic 7 volume series. > 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at this point in the story and did you wonder why? > Steve: Sort of, hints are being dropped all along that Harry can sense something related to Voldemort. As the story moves on, it become more apparent. So, I think I suspected, but I'm kind of a 'wait and see' reader. I don't have to understand everything all the time. I'm confident that eventually 'all will be revealed'. I previous discussion, long long ago, I predicted exactly what happened at Godric's Hollow that fateful night. That a piece of Voldemort latched on to the only living thing it could find in the room. Having predicted that long ago, I pretty much understood Harry connection, thought it had not been explained in detail just yet. > 3. Do you think Harry correctly assessed Hermione's and Ron's reactions? Does this show he knows his friends well? > Steve: Well, he must know them well because when he finally tells them, they react just as he predicted. What bothers me is not how well he knows them, but that he would think it would matter. Yes, the did not react ideally, but you have to trust your friends. Naturally, and many of us have discussed this, Harry is annoyingly independent. I can understand why, growing up alone, in that oppressive restrictive environment, but there were so many time in the course of the story when Harry could have eased his own mind just by confiding in his friends and trusting the people around him who have established their trustworthiness. Still, for the most part, he acts just the way kids act. While it annoyed me to no end, it still seemed completely normal and understandable. > 4. Where did you think Sirius was hiding based on the colorful birds he sent? > Steve: Madagascar. Though to be fair, you can buy colorful birds in just about any country in the world, so that may have simply been a ruse to throw anyone off the trail if the bird was intercepted. Still, I imagine him in North Africa, or perhaps the near east; Turkey maybe. The Owls take a long time, but not a impossibly long time as they would if he were in India, Thailand, or China. So ...North Africa... Moracco, Monaco, or similar. I can picture Sirius finding the exotic bird in the Bazzar in Moracco. > 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by Sirius to get better treatment from the Dursleys? > Steve: Fair? What's ever been fair about Harry's life? I think he is more than right to use whatever leverage he can to insure that he gets fair treatment. The Dursley's have threatened him and worse for 10 years. So, again, he should rightly use whatever leverage he can. Plus, he doesn't out and out threaten them with violence, he simply implies that a very dark and dangerous character is now watching out for him, and the Dursley's can take from that information what they will. The thread is no more than implied, as you rightly say. But, in my opinion, it is only subtly implied. In one of the books, GOF I think, Lupin, Moody, and the Weasleys are there at the train station when Harry arrives home to warn the Dursleys that Harry friends will be keeping an eye on him, and mistreatment will have consequences. Was that fair? You darn right it was. Steve/bboyminn From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 9 16:55:38 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 9 Oct 2011 16:55:38 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 10/9/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1318179338.48.22214.m12@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191362 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday October 9, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From puduhepa98 at aol.com Mon Oct 10 15:53:48 2011 From: puduhepa98 at aol.com (nikkalmati) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:53:48 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191363 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" wrote: > > > > Harry did not mention the dream at all in his letter to Sirius, only the pain in his scar. On the one hand, if he wanted good advice, it would have been best to give complete information. On the other hand, he didn't want to worry Sirius too much, which was a valid concern considering how upset Harry was when Sirius did come back to Hogsmeade. Do you think Harry should have told about the dream in his letter? > > Annemehr > Nikkalmati Well, Harry gives his reasons for not mentioning it, which shows to me that he knows Sirius pretty well too. I think Sirius would have come back. I think Harry also like many teenagewrs doesn't want to be seen as complaining too much or making a big thing out of nothing. Adults have a better sense of what is important and when they need help - from having greater experience. Harry really should have consulted Dumbledore because he was likely to know what to do, but Harry did not feel confident enough to go to the top. Nikkalmati From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 16 15:07:14 2011 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 15:07:14 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191364 This message is a Special Notice for all members of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups In addition to being published onlist (available in webview), this post is also being delivered off-list (to email inboxes) to those whose "Message Delivery" is set to "Special Notices." If this is problematic or if you have any questions, contact the List Elves at HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (minus that extra space) -------------------------------------------------------------------- CHAPTER SUMMARY: Harry joins the Dursleys for breakfast. We discover that Dudley has been put on a strict weight-loss diet, thanks to some well-chosen comments from the Smeltings school nurse and the fact that the school outfitters don't stock knickerbockers big enough for him anymore. There have been tantrums, arguments and tears, but the diet sheet has been taped to the fridge, which has been purged of Dudley's favorite foods. To make it easier for Dudley, the whole household is now subsisting on what Vernon calls rabbit food. Breakfast consists of an unsweetened grapefruit, cut into four portions. Harry's "quarter" is smaller than Dudley's, Petunia being determined that at least Harry will get less than Diddycums. But Petunia has no idea that Hedwig has been bringing Harry extra food from his friends. Besides sugar-free treats from Hermione and Hagrid's inedible rock cakes, Harry has received fruit cake and meat pies from Mrs. Weasley and four superb birthday cakes, one each from Ron, Hermione, Hagrid and Sirius. So Harry eats his grapefruit without complaint. Just after Vernon sits down to breakfast, the doorbell rings. Vernon goes to answer it (Dudley taking the opportunity to snatch Vernon's grapefruit for himself.) Vernon then summons Harry to the living room. Wondering what he could have done this time, Harry discovers that Vernon has received a letter from Molly Weasley, written on purple paper and sent via Muggle post, with so many stamps on the envelope that there's barely room for the address. This aroused the curiosity of the postman, who delivered it in person, thus provoking Vernon even before he'd seen what the letter had to say. The letter asks if Harry can go to the Quidditch World Cup with the Weasleys and spend the rest of the summer at their house. This puts Vernon in a quandary. He hates to think of Harry having a good time. On the other hand, the opportunity to get rid of him for the rest of the summer is tempting. As Vernon stews, Harry plays the Sirius card -- since he can't go, he'll just finish the letter he's sending to his godfather. In fear of what Sirius might do if he thinks Harry is being mistreated, Vernon gives in. Harry takes the stairs three at a time, and hurls himself into his bedroom, where he's ambushed as what appears to be a "small, gray, feathery tennis ball collided with the side of his head." It's Ron's owl, who seems to be called "Pig", with a letter saying that the Weasleys are coming to pick up Harry with or without the Dursleys' permission, though they thought it would be better if they pretended to ask. Overjoyed, Harry sends Ron's owl back with a note saying he has permission, scribbles a postscript on his message to Sirius to say that he'll be at the Weasleys for the rest of the summer, and sends Hedwig off with it. Then he settles down with a slice of cake, savoring his happiness and finding it hard to worry about anything -- even Voldemort. QUESTIONS: 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from delivering the Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for the Weasleys to overwork their owl, even though he's evidently willing? 3. The Weasleys' attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys backfire, arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't bothered. Are there other instances in canon where naive attempts to show consideration aren't appreciated? 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his scar, but doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys are forced to admit Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the school's reports of poor grades and bullying. What do you think of these choices? What do they tell us about the characters? 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any weight? Does she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra food? 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four *equal* parts. Do you think the books would be different if she had more of a head for math? 7. Any other questions? Many thanks to Alla and Geoff for their assistance Pippin NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH Chapter Discussions" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows&tbl=33 Next, Chapter 4 of Goblet of Fire coming up soon. If you would like to volunteer to lead a GOF chapter discussion, please drop a note to HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (without the space). From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 16 16:55:31 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 16 Oct 2011 16:55:31 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 10/16/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1318784131.89.75454.m4@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191365 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday October 16, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willsonkmom at msn.com Sun Oct 16 21:11:32 2011 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (willsonteam) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:11:32 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191366 Pippin wrote a wonderful summary and these questions: 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? Potioncat: They do seem odd, don't they? I don't Hermione was thinking of calories, but of oral hygiene. Her parents are dentists and she is probably used to limiting sweets. Or perhaps while at her parents, only has access to sugarless foods. 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from delivering the Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for the Weasleys to overwork their owl, even though he's evidently willing? Potioncat: Poor Errol, I've always felt bad for him. Their treatment of Errol, and their way of dealing with gnomes have always made me a little uncomfortable with the Weasleys. 3. The Weasleys' attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys backfire, arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't bothered. Are there other instances in canon where naive attempts to show consideration aren't appreciated? Potioncat: I can't think of anything to this degree. Dobby's portrait of Harry, Hagrid's attempt at baking, perhaps are appreciated if not enjoyed. 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? Potioncat: He would have been in trouble. But I think he knew Vernon pretty well, and was confident in his own ability to deceive his uncle. 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his scar, but doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys are forced to admit Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the school's reports of poor grades and bullying. What do you think of these choices? What do they tell us about the characters? Potioncat: I think Harry had enough experience being the weird kid, that he doesn't want to open himself to that label again. Just bringing up the scar was difficult enough. I'm not sure that Petunia and Vernon see bullying as a problem--like father like son; and I don't know that they value good grades. So they may have thought the school was setting unrealistic standards, or didn't understand Diddykins. The weight was different. It was clearly obvious-- uniforms wouldn't fit him and he had to have uniforms. As the one who prepared family meals, weight was the one problem of the three that Petunia could control. Even if she had recognized the bullying and the grades as problems, I doubt if she was strong enough to take on more than one problem. She had always caved in to Dudley's tantrums in the past 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any weight? Does she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra food? Potioncat: I don't think she notices Harry that much anymore. 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four *equal* parts. Do you think the books would be different if she had more of a head for math? Potioncat: I think she knew and was making a little joke. I think it was Petunia who managed to divide the grapefruit unevenly. Besides, in normal conversations, 'halves" and "quarters" aren't always intended to be precise. But, yes, the books would have been different--we would have had fewer heated debates.--Missing 24 hours, how many Gryffindors, how many students at Hogwarts, how long did it take for the character to get from there to here? I think it's more likely that JKR doesn't know anything about dieting. She looks like she never needs to, and I can't say she's very kind toward the plumper characters in her story. Chopped celery!? A quarter grapefruit? Who eats like that? 7. Any other questions? Nope, but thanks for a great summary (I hate writing the summary part) and for new, interesting questions. From bigdaddyog at yahoo.com Mon Oct 17 05:53:33 2011 From: bigdaddyog at yahoo.com (dark_mark_muggle23) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 05:53:33 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191367 > 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you > think it meant that she was useless in questioning, or that > after the questioning methods, she was rendered useless. > Annemehr: > The latter. I think Barty Crouch, Jr. as much as said her mind was > gone. Marty: One thing that always puzzles me about this chapter: Voldemort mentions to Wormtail that only one more death and the path to Harry Potter is clear. Whose death is he referring to? If memory serves correct, the deaths that take place after he says this are Frank Bryce, Barty Crouch Sr. and Cedric Diggory. As far as I can tell, none of these deaths seemed like they were a part of the plan. Frank's death comes because he was eavesdropping on Voldemort and Wormtail's conversation. Crouch is killed because he breaks free of Wormtail's Imperious Curse and escapes to Hogwarts. And Cedric is killed because he happened to accompany Harry to the graveyard. Does the planned death actually ever take place? I'd appreciate any feedback. From hickengruendler at yahoo.de Mon Oct 17 10:26:46 2011 From: hickengruendler at yahoo.de (hickengruendler) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:26:46 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191368 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dark_mark_muggle23" wrote: > Marty: > One thing that always puzzles me about this chapter: Voldemort > mentions to Wormtail that only one more death and the path to Harry > Potter is clear. Whose death is he referring to? Hickengruendler: In the british edition, Voldemort says "One more curse..." The one more death part, is only in the American edition. From becks3uk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Oct 19 10:06:55 2011 From: becks3uk at yahoo.co.uk (Rebecca) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:06:55 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191369 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" wrote: > 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? Becks3uk: I think this was alluding to the fact that Hermione's parents were dentists. She probably eats them all the time when she is home and it's probably what she has access to free of charge. Poor Harry though ? sugar free treats have terrible laxative properties! > 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from delivering the Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for the Weasleys to overwork their owl, even though he's evidently willing? Becks3uk: I felt sorry for Errol but the Weasleys are wizarding folk and I think in the wizarding world, owls are seen as a commodity. I don't think they are bad people, it's a societal thing - it probably seems natural to keep working their owls until they literally can't do it anymore. Though their treatment of Errol makes me a little uncomfortable, I don't think the Weasleys are cruel. They could not afford to replace him but there is no alternative postal system for wizards. They were probably limiting his journeys but felt that Harry's need was important enough. > 3. The Weasleys attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys backfire, arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't bothered. Are there other instances in canon where naive attempts to show consideration aren't appreciated? Becks3uk: Pretty much any interaction with the Dursleys. In HBP Dumbledore tried to be nice to them; he offered them drinks which they did not take. Even in DH Dedalus Diggle attempts to flatter them by being all `impressed' by the fact Vernon Dursley could drive a car, which just made Vernon lose confidence even further. > 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? Becks3uk: I think Harry knows the Dursleys well enough to know that they wouldn't call his bluff. Sirius might have risked it for Harry and out of desire for a bit of excitement ? but Harry would have argued against it. He would not have asked Sirius to come. > 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his scar, but doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys are forced to admit Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the school's reports of poor grades and bullying. What do you think of these choices? What do they tell us about the characters? Becks3uk: Harry hides the dream because he does not want to admit to people that he actually believes it might be real. He does not want to be crazy or to be associated with the likes of Trelawney who believe they are seers. It says that he cares what people think of him and he just wants to be normal. The other thing that is underlying I believe is his fear that it might actually be true ? that Voldemort is plotting with Wormtail to kill him. I think he is afraid that if he tells people about the dream, they might confirm his fears. The Dursleys cannot allow themselves to believe that Dudley is anything but perfect. They won't believe poor grades or bullying as this is down to Dudley. They are forced to believe that Dudley is overweight as the nurse has written to them ? which implies that Dudley's health could be in jeopardy. At least they can blame `nasty food' rather than Dudley himself. I also think that Vernon probably did not get very good grades himself and was considered a bully ? he is so sure of his own self-righteousness that he probably doesn't understand why people would want to do things any differently to him e.g. getting good grades. > 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any weight? Does she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra food? Becks3uk: I think it would not have occurred to her that Harry should lose or gain weight ? she probably never considered the impact of the diet on him. His portions were always meagre up to Dudley's anyway. I think she tries so hard not to notice him that she would not notice if he did start losing weight. > 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four *equal* parts. Do you think the books would be different if she had more of a head for math? Becks3uk: I don't think it matters ? the point is that the grapefruit has been cut into four parts. Harry's piece is smaller than Dudley's. Besides, people often talk about quartering oranges or grapefruits and they rarely ensure that the four parts are equal! Thanks Pippin for some great questions. From doctorwhofan02 at yahoo.ca Wed Oct 19 17:09:40 2011 From: doctorwhofan02 at yahoo.ca (June Ewing) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation References: Message-ID: <1319044180.38565.YahooMailNeo@web113913.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > Pippin: > QUESTIONS: > > 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining > about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? June: Haha, I thought that too. It could be though that it was the only thing she could get her hands on to send him. Maybe at the time there wasn't anything in the house she could send that would not spoil being hidden in his room. > 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from > delivering the Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for > the Weasleys to overwork their owl, even though he's evidently > willing? June: Poor Errol, I have often thought it was time to retire the poor guy and get a new owl for delivering post, however the Weasleys don't have a lot of money and it could be that they cannot afford a new owl. Also Ron was not supposed to send Errol on that trip so maybe Errol is all right to handle short trips but Ron went behind his parents' backs so it is really Ron's fault. > 3. The Weasleys' attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys > backfire, arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't > bothered. Are there other instances in canon where naive attempts > to show consideration aren't appreciated? June: There most likely are but only when considering the Dursleys. If you will remember, at the end of "POA" Mrs. Weasley smiled at Mr. Dursley and he did nothing more than scowl at her. Mr. Dursley is set in his ways and thinks everything should be what he calls "normal" and can't see that there are perfectly normal people who do not live like he does. > 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. > What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called > his bluff? June: I think Harry would have gone stomping up to his bedroom with the threat that he was going to tell Sirius in the hopes that Vernon would panic and go after him to tell him he could go, however had that happened he would have run into Pig anyway and know he was going and just stay in his room until the Weasleys got there. > 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his > scar, but doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys > are forced to admit Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the > school's reports of poor grades and bullying. What do you think > of these choices? What do they tell us about the characters? June: In Harry's case he is worried that telling about the dream would either make him?look insane or cause a panic. In the Dursleys' case they have always turned a blind eye to the wrong that Dudley does and they pretend it isn't true. It is easier to turn a blind eye when you don't see what is going on in front of you and pretend everything is good. However, they cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that Dudley had gotten so big that they could not get the uniform. They could not pretend that did not exsist because if they did Dudley would have had no uniform for the upcoming year and worse, he may have been unaccepted back to the school without the school uniform. > 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any > weight? Does she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra > food? June: I think Petunia only had eyes for her own son so she didn't notice anything about Harry unless he was doing something that she thought the neighbors would find odd. > 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four > *equal* parts. Do you think the books would be different if she > had more of a head for math? June: I am sure JKR knows her math. We learn quarters in grade school. She just told the story the easiest way to tell it with there being 5 in the family you can't really cut in quarters to feed 5 but Harry never got a full piece any way. It could be that she was cutting one grapefruit into quarters and had bits from another for Harry. From ddankanyin at cox.net Thu Oct 20 00:27:12 2011 From: ddankanyin at cox.net (dorothy dankanyin) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:27:12 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation References: Message-ID: <1E0F40D58AE5475BAA83F8B2412B99E4@DG22FG61> No: HPFGUIDX 191371 > QUESTIONS: > > 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet > food. What was Hermione thinking? Dorothy: I don't think Hermione thought about sugar free treats as diet food, just better for teeth than the regular kind. After all, her parents were dentists. Treats are not usually something someone would eat to the exclusion of everything else, so the treats were considered something Harry might want. > > 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from delivering the > Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for the Weasleys to overwork > their owl, even though he's evidently willing? Dorothy: I don't know that they even knew Errol would have a hard time delivering Harry's care package. He delivered all their mail regularly, and I don't remember him recovering five days, but I may be wrong there. It just never crossed my mind while reading the story (umpteen times). > > 3. The Weasleys' attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys backfire, > arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't bothered. Are there > other instances in canon where naive attempts to show consideration aren't > appreciated? Dorothy: The Dursleys didn't show consideration for anyone except for those they were trying to impress. Anyone connected with Harry certainly didn't qualify. Magical people were below consideration at all, so every attempt at politeness was met with disgruntled or fearful reactions. > > 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you > think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? Dorothy: Although Harry knew Vernon would never have called Harry's bluff of telling his godfather. If the unthinkable happened, then there would have been chaos on all sides for sure. > > 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his scar, but > doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys are forced to admit > Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the school's reports of poor grades > and bullying. What do you think of these choices? What do they tell us > about the characters? Dorothy: It tells us that Harry doesn't want anyone to know his dreams lest they think he's either crazy or worse yet, that there's a more serious threat to his life than he'd thought before. As for the Durselys thoughts on Dudley, the only reason they even admitted his weight problem was because they couldn't get uniforms in his size. Otherwise, like the bullying and bad grades, it would be thought of as people who didn't understand their wonderful son. > > 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any weight? Does > she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra food? Dorothy: Since Harry has always been thin, and wearing Dudley's hand me downs, no would notice even if Harry was losing weight. They never spent any time looking at him other than to complain about his hair and expression. > > 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four *equal* parts. > Do you think the books would be different if she had more of a head for > math? Dorothy: I highly doubt JKR didn't know math. More like the term quarters meant four pieces, with Harry's always being the smallest of anything they gave him. Thanks to all of you for these. > > Many thanks to Alla and Geoff for their assistance > > Pippin From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com Thu Oct 20 21:37:18 2011 From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:37:18 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191372 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" wrote: > CHAPTER SUMMARY: > QUESTIONS: > > 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? Geoff: Canon hints at the answer. She is giving more thought to Harry's teeth than anything else. Mark you, sugar-free items aren't used exclusively by dieting persons. > 3. The Weasleys' attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys backfire, arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't bothered. Are there other instances in canon where naive attempts to show consideration aren't appreciated? Geoff: I doubt if anything they do would be appreciated by the Dursleys - especially Vernon. Look how abrupt and rude he was when Molly attempts to be affable at the end of PS. > 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? Geoff: As others have pointed out, I think he reads Vernon sufficiently well to know that he is safe in making the suggestion. > 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his scar, but doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys are forced to admit Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the school's reports of poor grades and bullying. What do you think of these choices? What do they tell us about the characters? Geoff: I think a lot of this is the fact that he has had to be independent and not rely on anyone for so long. He often doesn't unload his thoughts onto others but tries to sort out a plan of action by himself. With reference to the Dursleys' reaction, speaking as a teacher, this is a typical response when a pupil's achievement or bad behaviour is highlighted. The school will be blamed; other pupils will be blamed for lying or ganging up; the teachers are not giving him enough attention.... Yep. Been there, seen it, got the T-shirt! > 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any weight? Does she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra food? Geoff: Probably doesn't look closely enough. He's in oversize clothes and I seriously doubt she ever goes to the bathroom to wash his back for him. :-) > 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four *equal* parts. Do you think the books would be different if she had more of a head for math? No. If we have something like, say an apple pie, for Sunday lunch and I, as the retired Maths teacher, am given the serving knife, I don't get out a protractor and measure 90 degrees for each piece. I estimate by eye. Petunia cuts up the grapefruit, judges which is the smallest "quarter" to generously award to Harry. From willsonkmom at msn.com Fri Oct 21 01:05:22 2011 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (willsonteam) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 01:05:22 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191373 > 7. JKR seems unaware that quarters are supposed to be four *equal* parts. Do you think the books would be different if she had more of a head for math? > > Potioncat then: I think she knew and was making a little joke. Potioncat now: Seems like everyone agrees with me. But let's look closer, in one of the Sorting Hat songs, he---it---says his job is to "quarter" the students. If the Hat is supposed to place each student in the best House--then he wouldn't be dividing them into 4 equal parts, would he? Well, we know JKR says she's bad at maths, and we've seen lots of examples of it in the books. So, yes, to answer the actual question, the books would have been more precise had she understood maths better. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 21 03:25:56 2011 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 03:25:56 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191374 Pippin: > QUESTIONS: > > 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? Alla: Interesting, I did not think it was odd at all. I think for someone who complains about being given that little food (not just about diet food), a lot of good food, even sugar free food would cause appreciation. As to why sugar free I also was always sure that it is because she is used to those in her parents; house. > > 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from delivering the Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for the Weasleys to overwork their owl, even though he's evidently willing? Alla: I think this was to stress again how poor Weasleys are and do not have much choice, they cant buy second owl probably. > 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? Alla: Pure speculation, but I think he would have written to Sirius about it if forced. > > 5. Harry is willing to admit he's troubled about the pain in his scar, but doesn't tell about the dream. Meanwhile the Dursleys are forced to admit Dudley's weight problem, but disregard the school's reports of poor grades and bullying. What do you think of these choices? What do they tell us about the characters? Alla: I do not think admitting about pain in his scar was an easy choice for Harry either, so I would say it shows his self reliance. And I guess Dursleys care about their son's physical well being, but would never admit that he is capable of wrong doing either intellectually or emotionally. I guess I would say it tells us that in addition to many other faults I think they possess they are pretty lousy parents too. Pippin: > 6. Do you think Petunia noticed that Harry wasn't losing any weight? Does she really have no idea that Harry is getting extra food? Alla: LOL, no and no, of course not IMO. Thanks for the great questions Pippin. From annemehr at yahoo.com Sat Oct 22 00:27:22 2011 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 00:27:22 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 3: The Invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191375 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" wrote: > QUESTIONS: > > 1. Sugar-free treats seem an odd gift for someone complaining about diet food. What was Hermione thinking? Annemehr: I don't know. Sugar-free treats are not actually healthy. I agree with the dentist parents theory like everyone else. I think JKR just put it in to have Hermione be exasperating again, for a joke. > > 2. We learn that it took Errol five days to recover from delivering the Weasley's care package to Harry. Is it fair for the Weasleys to overwork their owl, even though he's evidently willing? Annemehr: As long as he's willing, sure, for the most part. Lots of people don't *want* to retire; maybe Errol's the same way. For all we know, maybe Errol *took* five days but didn't really need 'em all. ;) > > 3. The Weasleys' attempts to show consideration for the Dursleys backfire, arguably causing more offense than if they hadn't bothered. Are there other instances in canon where naive attempts to show consideration aren't appreciated? Annemehr: Um... what about when Hagrid tried to talk to Mme Maxime at the Yule Ball about being giants? I think he was trying to do something nice -- sharing experiences and having things in common. He didn't anticipate she'd be sensitive about it with *him*. > > 4. Harry doesn't actually want Sirius to come out of hiding. What do you think Harry would have done if Vernon had called his bluff? Annemehr: I think it comes down to Harry not being able to afford to let the Dursleys think that Sirius is an empty threat, or Harry's life at Privet Drive would go miserable again. If Vernon had called Harry's bluff, I think Harry would have stayed put. In the event the Weasleys respected Vernon's decision (as if), I think Harry's best bet would have been to write to Sirius anyway, so Sirius could send Vernon a letter. Even though it would have been too late for the World Cup, it would have put Vernon on notice that there really was a godfather looking out for Harry. And just to make sure Vernon paid attention, there could have been some highly unpleasant and frightening little magical object enclosed to get the point across. Nothing *really* dangerous, you understand, but Vernon and Petunia needn't have known that. ;) Annemehr From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 23 16:55:46 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 23 Oct 2011 16:55:46 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 10/23/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1319388946.51.31546.m8@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191376 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday October 23, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Oct 30 16:55:42 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 30 Oct 2011 16:55:42 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 10/30/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1319993742.274.83033.m8@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191377 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday October 30, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willsonkmom at msn.com Mon Oct 31 00:01:26 2011 From: willsonkmom at msn.com (willsonteam) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 00:01:26 -0000 Subject: Halloween Toasts Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191378 Halloween is approaching. This means many things, but to all wizards, it is a day we should remember for the following reason. On 31st October, Voldemort murdered Lily and James Potter in the attempt to kill a young boy. They lay down their lives to protect their son. Remember their sacrifice so that they shall not be forgotten. On that stormy night 30 years ago, people all over the country were holding up their glasses and saying in hushed voices: 'To Harry Potter - the boy who lived!' We should do the same. And now, raise another glass to the man who lived his life in honor of of Lily and for the protection of her son.--Severus Snape. Potioncat here, I stole the top part from a post on Facebook--one of my son's friends. Pretty cool, I think. The second toast is mine :-) So, Who would you like to toast on the anniversary of Voldemort's first defeat? Happy Halloween Potioncat