From finwitch at yahoo.com Thu Sep 1 09:09:58 2011 From: finwitch at yahoo.com (Susanna) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 09:09:58 -0000 Subject: Mirror of Erised In-Reply-To: <016EE452CE364B2EA78F69B5C6D07482@DG22FG61> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191329 > > > Bart: > > You didn't read it carefully. His deepest, most desperate desire > > was to want nothing more than a pair of thick woolen socks; in > > other words, to be content with what he had. > > > Dorothy: Thank you, Bart. I feel that this must have been what > he meant besides Harry getting too personal, thus ending that > conversation. > Finwitch: You know, I'm going with this one. Particularly with the comment about the happiest man in the world using it as a regular mirror as he was explaining the mirror's function. (Making him much less likely to lie about what he thinks is HAPPY, it being education, not answering a personal question.) Personally, I disagree with that comment. I think it'd be absolutely horrible not to desire for anything. In that, Dumbledore's indeed desiring what would be the worst, considering that one of the symptoms of *depression* is lack of desire. I'd say it's a depressed man who sees nothing but himself in that mirror. I wonder, though - might Dumbledore have reconsidered by the end of the book, saying how people tend to want the worst? (Including himself, of course, not that he'd admit it). Me, I think I'd just use it to figure out what I want. (Or try to. Probably just see myself knowing what I want). From finwitch at yahoo.com Thu Sep 1 10:52:27 2011 From: finwitch at yahoo.com (Susanna) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 10:52:27 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Prisoner of Azkaban Ch 22: Owl Post Again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191330 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Questions: > > Everyone pull out your time-turners and give them about five thousand turns. Now that you are back where you were when you just finished reading this book for the first time > > 1. Snape is raving mad and thinks Potter had a hand in Sirius's escape *before* Dumbledore drops the hints about "being in two places at once". Does Snape suspect time-turning was involved? Sounded more like a reflex - 'This has something to do with Potter' - remembering the relationship between James Potter and Snape - which Snape so graciously (not) flaunts as often as he gets the chance, as well as apparently blaming 'Potter' for just about everything. Like Neville's cauldron accident right there in the first ever Potions Class we get to witness when it's obvious Harry is not to blame (for everyone but Snape). > 2. "Harry had the impression that Lupin wanted to leave as quickly as possible." Was he ashamed of himself in front of Dumbledore? Was this more evidence of his cowardice? Lupin -- yes, sure. I think giving the map to Harry was also showing that he felt guilty - for being a risk to him as well as the reason of Wormtail's escape and Sirius' capture. It wasn't only Dumbledore he had been letting down. Thinking further, I think Sirius is the one he feels he owes the most, what with the 12 years earlier and NOW being the reason he's caught? Maybe Lupin was in a hurry to see Sirius for one last time rather than avoiding Dumbledore? > 3. Dumbledore tells Harry that the life debt is "magic at its deepest, its most impenetrable". Knowing now how Pettigrew's debt plays out, are you satisfied with Dumbledore's proclamation? Do you think JKR did this supposedly grave issue justice? Oh yes, magic at its deepest. Looking back at that, it sounds like ' music, magic beyond all that we teach here.' also, a figure of speech, meaning Dumbledore is extremely moved/pleased about it. Dumbledore likes to call such things magic, while there's really nothing exactly magical about it - apart the wonder Dumbledrore feels (which might be similar to our emotions when watching a magic show). I wish that Flesh of a Servant, Willingly Given mixed with Blood of the Enemy, Forcibly Taken along with the bone of a Muggle father (no magic there) would have caused something funny because of the Life Debt, but no deal. Huge disappointment. > > 4. Remember in the first book, how we learn of Snape's "life debt" to James, and how that comes to the fore in this book. Do you think this life debt "deep magic" is as powerful as the ancient love magic that Lily invoked when saving Harry? Do you see enough evidence of the "life debt" magic to be convinced that it exists? No. There's not enough to even say what it is. That's why I think it's just another example of Dumbledore's 'magic beyond all' being music. (Even a cacophony with everyone singing in a different tune?) > 5. Dumbledore also tells Harry that "the time may come when he will be glad he saved Pettigrew's life." For those Lord of the Rings fans amongst the group, how would you compare and contrast this James/Harry-Wormtail connection with the Bilbo/Frodo-Gollum connection? MM.. Grollum did do something spectacularly important - by accident. Wormtail was something of a downplay. > 6. Did you have any idea what could possibly have been Trelawney's "first" real prediction? Tell the truth now, did you have any inkling that it would turn out to be *the Prophesy* of all prophesies? Well, I think it DID have something to do about why Voldemort was after Harry. Not a new idea, is it? Ages back to Oedipus being prophecised to kill his father and marry his mother... > 7. How did Dumbledore know James's nickname was Prongs? Did he know about the Marauder's Map? Mmm. Sirius told him or he heard the other boys call him that when they were at school. Sirius did tell him about the animagi-business, so why not mention the nicknames along it? But the Map-- nope. Maybe Sirius even tested if Dumbledore ever came accross it by mentioning the nicknames and seeing if Dumbledore showed any sign of recognition. > 8. Disregarding the needs of the author for plot development, should Hermione have told Harry and Ron much earlier about the time-turner? If you were Hermione, would you have told the boys sooner? Mm. No. Messing with time is risky, and if she had told them, how long cloud she handle them pressuring her to use it for something other than her studies? Besides, if they can't figure that out by looking at her time-table and a bit of research... From poomeg20 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 3 02:07:23 2011 From: poomeg20 at yahoo.com (poomeg20) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 02:07:23 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191331 This message is a Special Notice for all members of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups In addition to being published onlist (available in webview), this post is also being delivered off-list (to email inboxes) to those whose "Message Delivery" is set to "Special Notices." If this is problematic or if you have any questions, contact the List Elves at HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (minus that extra space) -------------------------------------------------------------------- GoF Chapdisc 1: The Riddle House Summary: Frank Bryce was the gardener for the Riddle family, until he was suspected in their mysterious deaths fifty years ago. Now he lives alone on the grounds as the caretaker of the otherwise empty house, where he sees a light in the window one night. When he goes to investigate, he overhears a strange conversation between Voldemort and Wormtail, in which they discuss their plans. Frank is discovered, but is killed by Voldemort before he can tell anyone what happened. At the end of the chapter, Harry awakens with a pain in his scar, having also witnessed the scene, seemingly in a dream. Questions: 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the timeframe of the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would have been? Did you attribute any significance to that era? 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? 3. What or who did you think had caused their deaths? 4. The Hanged Man is a pretty awesome pub name, considering the village is called Little Hangleton. What is your favorite pub name that comes up in the series? 5. Prior to the end of the chapter, did you think Frank Bryce would go on to be a more major character in the series? 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his family before killing them with the AK? 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of his original name? 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you think it meant that she was useless in questioning, or that after the questioning methods, she was rendered useless. 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all along? Megan Real NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH Chapter Discussions" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows&tbl=33 Next, Chapter 2 of Goblet of Fire coming up soon. If you would like to volunteer to lead a GOF chapter discussion, please drop a note to HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (without the space). From doctorwhofan02 at yahoo.ca Sat Sep 3 13:57:42 2011 From: doctorwhofan02 at yahoo.ca (June Ewing) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 06:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1315058262.62328.YahooMailNeo@web113909.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191332 > Questions: > 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the > timeframe of the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would > have been? Did you attribute any significance to that era? June: I understood the arrival of Voldemort and Wormtail to be the present (being in the book 1995) so 50 years ago would be 1945. > 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? June: There really wasn't a chance to have my own impression as they were described as stuck up in the beginning so that let you to think they were stuck up. > 3. What or who did you think had caused their deaths? June: Voldemort was my first and only thought. The reports said that there wasn't a mark on them so it made sense that it would have been a witch or wizard who did it and with Voldemort growing up in an orphanage it stood to reason that he may not have been accepted by his paternal family. > 4. The Hanged Man is a pretty awesome pub name, considering the > village is called Little Hangleton. What is your favorite pub name > that comes up in the series? June: The Leaky Cauldron > 5. Prior to the end of the chapter, did you think Frank Bryce > would go on to be a more major character in the series? June: No, I thought that would be the last of him. Considering this is Harry Potter, I should have known better, LOL. > 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his > family before killing them with the AK? June: No, I am sure he had carefully planned the killings. > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? June: Because it was the home of his family and legally belonged to him. It was sort of like Sirius using his family's house. > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do > you think that Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead > of his original name? June: I doubt that bothers him because his friends at Hogwarts called him that because of his animagi form. > 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you > think it meant that she was useless in questioning, or that after > the questioning methods, she was rendered useless. June: Voldemort did say that he had gotten a lot of good information from Bertha, so obviously the questioning wasn't usless. She was rendered useless because of the use of the spell to break the origional spell put on her by Barty Crouch Sr. (Voldemort even say's so) by the way, does anyone else other than me think that Barty Crouch Sr owns part of what happened to Bertha? > 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all > along? June: I do, in fact I think that Voldemort was the unknown owner who was paying Frank to look after the place. From kersberg at chello.nl Sun Sep 4 14:13:01 2011 From: kersberg at chello.nl (kamion53) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 14:13:01 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191333 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "poomeg20" wrote: > > This message is a Special Notice for all members of > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups > > In addition to being published onlist (available in webview), this post is also > being delivered off-list (to email inboxes) to those whose "Message Delivery" is > set to "Special Notices." If this is problematic or if you have any questions, > contact the List Elves at HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (minus that extra > space) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > GoF Chapdisc 1: The Riddle House > > Summary: > Frank Bryce was the gardener for the Riddle family, until he was suspected in > their mysterious deaths fifty years ago. Now he lives alone on the grounds as > the caretaker of the otherwise empty house, where he sees a light in the window > one night. When he goes to investigate, he overhears a strange conversation > between Voldemort and Wormtail, in which they discuss their plans. Frank is > discovered, but is killed by Voldemort before he can tell anyone what happened. > At the end of the chapter, Harry awakens with a pain in his scar, having also > witnessed the scene, seemingly in a dream. > > Questions: > > 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the timeframe of > the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would have been? Did you > attribute any significance to that era? > > 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? > > 3. What or who did you think had caused their deaths? > > 4. The Hanged Man is a pretty awesome pub name, considering the village is > called Little Hangleton. What is your favorite pub name that comes up in the series? > > 5. Prior to the end of the chapter, did you think Frank Bryce would go on to be > a more major character in the series? > > 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his family before > killing them with the AK? > > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? > > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that > Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of his original name? > > 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you think it meant that > she was useless in questioning, or that after the questioning methods, she was > rendered useless. > > 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all along? > > Megan Real > > NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH > Chapter Discussions" at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows&tbl=33 > > Next, Chapter 2 of Goblet of Fire coming up soon. If you would like to volunteer to lead a GOF > chapter discussion, please drop a note to HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com > (without the space). > I thought the first chapter on GoF pretty confusing, I was a sort of speed-reader, having started at book 1 two days before and reading all five then published book as fast as possible. previoes book had started with Harry so a book not starting with Harry trew me off balance. So after knowing the whole story I reread it and could place what has happened. From thedossetts at gmail.com Sun Sep 4 15:42:20 2011 From: thedossetts at gmail.com (rtbthw_mom) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:42:20 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191334 - > GoF Chapdisc 1: The Riddle House > > Summary: >Snip summary > > Questions: > > 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the timeframe of > the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would have been? Did you > attribute any significance to that era? > Pat: I understood it to be happening around the end of WWII. > 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? > Pat: Didn't think they were very sympathetic characters. But I'm not impressed by wealthy people with an attitude in literature - usually that just screams out "bad people"! > 5. Prior to the end of the chapter, did you think Frank Bryce would go on to be > a more major character in the series? > Pat: No, he was a Muggle and located far from Hogwarts. I was fairly certain he'd be staying in Little Hangleton, one way or another. > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? > Pat: Voldemort always chose to do things that had meaning in his life. This was his Muggle father's home - it had symbolism for him in that way and it was a lot nicer than his mother's home, lol. Also it was pretty much abandoned, no other Muggles (besides Frank Bryce, although I don't think he knew about Frank) running around to bother him, and had been cared for over the years so it wasn't a dump. > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that > Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of his original name? > Pat: No. I think Peter knew when he returned to LV that his choices had dwindled down to that or death, and he wasn't ready for death yet. LV uses the name Wormtail to be demeaning, and everyone else seems to take it that way, too. > 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you think it meant that > she was useless in questioning, or that after the questioning methods, she was > rendered useless. > Pat: She obviously was not useless during the questioning - she gave up lots of useful information: she's LV's source that Barty Crouch, Jr., is still alive and under the Imperious Curse at his father's house, and she also gave up the information that the World Quidditch Cup was going to be held in England that year, so it would be a good time for LV and Peter to slip into England unnoticed. It's not in canon, but I would also imagine that she gave up information on goings-on at the Ministry, and even information about Death Eaters' trials and what had happened to them during the ensuing years (although Peter could also help with that information.) I also got the strong impression that either the method by which LV broke the Memory Charm or the process of extracting her information damaged her brain (and possibly even her body) beyond repair. I felt she was probably left in a vegetative state. Another instance of LV feeling that the ends justify the means when you're him. > 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all along? > No, I had the impression that he got his information from Nagini. I don't think he knew that Frank was there. In retrospect, I always thought that the "investor" who owned the place was Lucius Malfoy. LV loves to have his hirelings do things for him - for example, having Bellatrix store his horcrux and the (false) sword of Gryffindor in her Gringotts vault - so I always imagined LV telling Lucius to buy the mansion in case he ever needed a place to have the Death Eaters meet. Or just to hang out in, have his own headquarters. Seemed like the kind of thing he would do, and Lucius had the cash to be able to do something like this for his Lord and master. And, being a prudent sort of guy, I could see Lucius having Frank stay on to take care of his investment. > Megan Real > Thanks for the questions, Megan! Pat From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 4 16:55:26 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 4 Sep 2011 16:55:26 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/4/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1315155326.19.21656.m11@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191335 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday September 4, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com Sun Sep 4 20:21:06 2011 From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 20:21:06 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191336 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "poomeg20" wrote: Questions: > > 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the timeframe of > the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would have been? Did you > attribute any significance to that era? Geoff: As soon as I read the Riddle House and then "fifty years ago", I went "Aha! This must be Voldemort's family". I was initially totally thrown by the comment "Elderly Mr. and Mrs. Riddle... and their grown-up son, Tom". Tom, grown up? Huh? Have I missed something? But then light dawned when I read a bit further on about "a teenage boy, a stranger, dark-haired and pale". Ah, I thought, that has got to be Voldemort so this grown-up Tom must be his father which explained him being there on his own with his parents. Hence, this must have been around the time of the Chamber incident. > 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? Geoff: I merely accepted JKR's description that they were unpopular, rich, snobbish and rude. Geoff: > 3. What or who did you think had caused their deaths? Geoff: >From the description which came back to the police, it had to be the Avada Kedavra curse. > 4. The Hanged Man is a pretty awesome pub name, considering the village is > called Little Hangleton. What is your favorite pub name that comes up in the series? Geoff: We haven't got much of a choice have we? I suppose the Three Broomsticks. > 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his family before > killing them with the AK? Geoff: No. (a) There would probably have been evidence of it and (b) what Tom Riddle had said about his father in COS made me think that he would be burning for revenge. > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? Geoff: A certain irony in that he had taken the house by force and would perhaps be able to gloat about his father's and grandparents' demise. > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that > Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of his original name? Geoff: You've got to be joking. You saw the way in which Remus and Sirius used his name in POA and it was a demeaning name - as has been remarked on in the past, very reminiscent of Wormtongue in LOTR. From andy.mills at btinternet.com Mon Sep 5 17:40:48 2011 From: andy.mills at btinternet.com (Andy Mills) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 18:40:48 +0100 Subject: Deaths during the battle of Hogwarts in DH Message-ID: <4E6509A0.7090908@btinternet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191337 Hello, does anyone know whether JKR has ever given us the names of all the people who died during the battle at Hogwarts in DH? We know that Fred, Lupin, Tonks, Colin and around 50 others died, but have the names of the 50 others ever been officially given? I'd be interested to know. AJM From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com Tue Sep 6 06:27:28 2011 From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 06:27:28 -0000 Subject: Deaths during the battle of Hogwarts in DH In-Reply-To: <4E6509A0.7090908@btinternet.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191338 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Andy Mills wrote: AJM: > Hello, does anyone know whether JKR has ever given us the names of all > the people who died during the battle at Hogwarts in DH? We know that > Fred, Lupin, Tonks, Colin and around 50 others died, but have the names > of the 50 others ever been officially given? I'd be interested to know. Geoff: Depends on your interpretation of "official" although personally I think the answer is "no". The Lexicon gives a list of those known to have taken part but there are only about 50 wizarding folk actually named although adding in one or two other groups raises the total slightly. But only a handful of the victims - whom you mention - are named. My feeling is that a full list has not been compiled. JKR of course can pass over because we concentrate only on the high profile people in the same way that, as an example, we do not have a full list of Gryffindor students. Maybe, further revelations from the "oracle" may surface in Pottermore.... From hickengruendler at yahoo.de Tue Sep 6 20:40:46 2011 From: hickengruendler at yahoo.de (hickengruendler) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 20:40:46 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191339 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" wrote: > Geoff: > You've got to be joking. You saw the way in which Remus and Sirius used his > name in POA and it was a demeaning name - as has been remarked on in the > past, very reminiscent of Wormtongue in LOTR. > I don't think it's that demeaning. He used it during schooltime and he even called himself Wormtail on the Marauder's Map. The similarity to "Wormtongue" is only visible to the readers, not to the characters. And I at least didn't have this association, when I read the nickname "Wormtail" for the first time, before we met Peter. From huntergreen3 at aol.com Thu Sep 8 07:16:31 2011 From: huntergreen3 at aol.com (huntergreen3 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 07:16:31 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191340 >3. What or who did you think had caused [the Riddles] deaths?< Rebecca: I think they were definitely hit with an AK, though at the time I remember wondering what it was that killed them (what kind of magic that is), since AK is not revealed until later in the book (and the magic that Voldemort used on Harry DID leave a mark). Its also interesting that they were all in the same room when they were killed, which means that Voldemort had to have done it very fast (no one had a chance to run away). > 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his family before > killing them with the AK? Rebecca: It doesn't appear so, unless he did something to first subdue all of them first, but that would have taken just as much time as AKing. > > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? Rebecca: Why not? Its abandoned, and most likely he is the owner, and he needs to be there for the re-birthing ceremony when they finally get Harry (though I suppose he could take the bone and bring it along somewhere else). > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of >his original name? Rebecca: I don't know. I can't see how it could bother him that much since that was his nickname among his friends. Also, how else would Voldemort know about it unless Peter told him? It is strange how he ends up being "Wormtail" from the end of PoA on, I was referring to him that way to my boys before we reached the end of GoF, and they were still calling him "Peter" at that point (I think I even had to remind them who Wormtail was in the first chapter). I think I heard it mentioned here once that perhaps he used "Wormtail" as his spy name back in the day, but that would be a terrible covert name, as Sirius, James and Lupin all use it too. >> 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all >>along? Pat: >No, I had the impression that he got his information from Nagini. I don't think he knew that Frank was there. In retrospect, I always thought that the "investor" who owned the place was Lucius Malfoy. < Rebecca: I agree. I think he would have killed Frank Bryce sooner if he knew he was there. Also, I always thought it was Malfoy who owned the house as well, though I don't know why I assumed it was him. Now I think more that it was Voldemort that owned the house, that he bought it for the same emotional reasons that drove his horcrux decisions. Looking forward to the next chapter. -Rebecca From puduhepa98 at aol.com Sun Sep 11 03:21:56 2011 From: puduhepa98 at aol.com (nikkalmati) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 03:21:56 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191341 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "poomeg20" wrote: GoF Chapdisc 1: The Riddle House > > Questions: > > 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the timeframe of > the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would have been? Did you > attribute any significance to that era? > Nikkalmati I did not think of anything other than a long time ago. I was surprised the story did not bwegin with Harry. Nikkalmati > 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? > Nikkalmati We are told they were arrogant and rude and monied, so I took that as what I was supposed to think. Nikkalmati > 3. What or who did you think had caused their deaths? > Nikkalmati It did seem likely to be magic, but who it was (other than the teenaged boy seen by Frank) was not clear. Nikkalmati > 4. The Hanged Man is a pretty awesome pub name, considering the village is > called Little Hangleton. What is your favorite pub name that comes up in the series? Nikkalmati I guess the Hog's Head. The Hnged Man is a bit gruesome. Nikkalmati > > 5. Prior to the end of the chapter, did you think Frank Bryce would go on to be > a more major character in the series? > Nikkalmati I thought it was possible, but not for long. Ha, ha. Nikkalmati > 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his family before > killing them with the AK? Nikkalmati They were found at dinner and with "a look of terror" on their faces; I think they knew who he was and he told them what he would do, and why, but I don't think he performed any other spells. He probably had to hurry back to perform the spells on Morfin. Nikkalmati > > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? > Nikkalmati I do think that it was easy for him to go back there, because he knew where it was and that it was unoccupied. I beleive, as suggested by others, that Lucius was the "wealthy man" who owned it. LV could not have paid for Frank's services when he had just gotten out of school and during the period he was in hiding in Albania, but Malfoy could easily have done it for him. Nikkalmati > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that > Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of his original name? > Nikkalmati He seems extremely fearful of LV at this time. Whether he likes it or not he will not object. I do get the sense that LV means it disparagingly. LV does not seem grateful or pleased with Peter. He despises him, in fact. I was surprised that Peter spoke up for Harry Potter and wanted to deflect LV from him. I thought at the time it was evidence of the "life debt" Peter had recently come to owe Harry. Nikkalmati > 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you think it meant that > she was useless in questioning, or that after the questioning methods, she was > rendered useless. Nikkalmati I thought she was rendered useless because her mind was gone, but on rereading I see they discussed why LV did not just send her home with a Memory Charm, so she coud not have been gaga. LV tells Peter he will be rewarded for the information she gave them, so I don't think she was useless to LV in that sense. I am very confused about the murder LV says Peter must perform before they get to Harry. Whom are they talking about? Madeye isn't actually killed. Barty Crouch, Sr. is killed by his son. I can't figure it out. What am I missing? Nikkalmati > > 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all along? > Nikkalmati No, he says Nagini told him. Nikkalmati Thank you for the questions. From LHunneb at attglobal.net Sun Sep 11 16:53:57 2011 From: LHunneb at attglobal.net (lhunneb) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:53:57 -0000 Subject: Universal's Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Advice for My Visit? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191342 I have friends getting married in Orlando in three weeks. I'll be there for the weekend, but the only time I have to visit the Harry Potter part of Universal will be Saturday morning, 10/1. I need advice from anyone who's been there on getting the best out of a short visit. All advice gratefully accepted. From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 11 16:55:22 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 11 Sep 2011 16:55:22 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/11/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1315760122.16.75007.m16@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191343 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday September 11, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carylcb at hotmail.com Sun Sep 11 18:33:32 2011 From: carylcb at hotmail.com (Augusta) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 18:33:32 -0000 Subject: Universal's Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Advice for My Visit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191344 I wrote a really long post on my facebook page about our trip last year -- I won't copy the whole thing here, but these are a few tips that I offered at the end: Go off-season in the middle of the week if you can. Buy the Express ticket if you can afford it; you'll get to go down the fast lanes to get closer to the front of the lines first. If you're short on time, it'll be well worth the extra cost. Eat at the Three Broomsticks either early or late; it gets crowded right at lunchtime. The entrees are hearty, somewhat healthy, and not overpriced. Butterbeer tastes like a butterscotchy root beer but the foam is added separately (we didn't try the frozen version but someone on the shuttle said it was great). The "Pumpkin Juice" was more like spiced tea, heavy on the cloves??"I was expecting it to be thicker, more like orange juice, but it wasn't bad. We didn't go into Ollivander's, but the line was ALWAYS wrapped around the building, so plan on a wait if you want a wand to choose you; however, you can buy wands in several of the other shops if you don't want to wait. Bring your address book and stamps if you want to mail postcards through Owl Post (I had to take mine back to the room to address them). You can buy real USPS 44?? Hogwarts stamps at a premium ($15.95 for a set of 10), but even if you bring your own stamps, you can get them canceled with a Hogsmeade indicia and drop them into the box to mail right there. Listen to the people around you; we found it amusing that almost every other person there had a British accent... and many of the others were from other parts of the world. --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lhunneb" wrote: > > I have friends getting married in Orlando in three weeks. I'll be there for the weekend, but the only time I have to visit the Harry Potter part of Universal will be Saturday morning, 10/1. > > I need advice from anyone who's been there on getting the best out of a short visit. > > All advice gratefully accepted. > From kersberg at chello.nl Sun Sep 11 21:10:00 2011 From: kersberg at chello.nl (kamion53) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 21:10:00 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191345 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" wrote: > > > > > Nikkalmati > I do think that it was easy for him to go back there, because he knew where it was and that it was unoccupied. I beleive, as suggested by others, that Lucius was the "wealthy man" who owned it. LV could not have paid for Frank's services when he had just gotten out of school and during the period he was in hiding in Albania, but Malfoy could easily have done it for him. > > Nikkalmati The connection "wealthy man" and Lucius Malfoy is quite unlikely. The Riddles are Muggles and live in the Muggleworld and they die when Voldemort is still in school, so years before Lucius excist. the most normal way is that the house would run a course of going through Muggle hands as Muggle try to make a living in it but faile till the house becomes dead capital and thereby interessing for a real estate dealer or agent. Lucius dealing in Muggle property is not in his nature as he despises anything Mugglish, from the timeframe it seems that "the wealthy man" is already there when Lucius himself is still in school, so financially still under the thumb of his father Abraxas. there is no connection mentioned ever between Abraxas and Voldemort, so he probably would not buy the house either at order of Voldemort. From bart at moosewise.com Mon Sep 12 03:04:51 2011 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 23:04:51 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Universal's Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Advice for My Visit? (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E6D76D3.3010101@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191346 On 9/11/2011 2:33 PM, Augusta wrote: > I wrote a really long post on my facebook page about our trip last year -- I won't copy the whole thing here, but these are a few tips that I offered at the end: > > Go off-season in the middle of the week if you can. > Bart: I had to be in Florida early last May, just at the beginning of the off-season. A few more hints: 1) For many of the rides at Universal, they have special lines for single riders. These are MUCH shorter. And sometimes, when there is no single rider line, the guard will allow a single rider on the express line. Even if you're with someone, you may consider going on as two single riders if you'd rather not wait on line for hours. 2) It's movie-centric. I recall seeing an attendant wearing some kind of uniform I did not recognize. I asked her what the uniform was, and she chided me for not knowing; when I said that I had read the books, but not seen all the movies, she said it was from the movie. 3) Hagrid's Hut is VERY hard to find if you aren't going on rides. It's next to the line to the Hippogryph ride; if you don't want to go on the ride, tell the attendant, and he or she will let you through to see it. You'll see Buckbeak, too. Bart From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Sep 18 02:26:07 2011 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 02:26:07 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 1: The Riddle House In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191347 Thank you, Meg, for the questions! > 1. The first time you read the book, did you have a sense of the timeframe of > the story, and therefore when "fifty years ago" would have been? Did you > attribute any significance to that era? > No, I didn't think about the actual year it was, although I did connect it with the time the Chamber of Secrets was originally opened as we knew from CoS. > 2. What was your initial impression of the Riddle family? > Like many, it did take me a few moments to work out who the "grownup son Tom" was. Other than that, I took them as unpleasant and standoffish; just cardboard characters really. > 3. What or who did you think had caused their deaths? > I recall I knew it was magic as I was sure the teenage boy was Tom Riddle (the younger). > 4. The Hanged Man is a pretty awesome pub name, considering the village is > called Little Hangleton. What is your favorite pub name that comes up in the series? > Another vote for the Hog's Head. Regarding the word hogshead, Wikipedia gives us this: "The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) notes that the hogshead was first standardized by an act of Parliament in 1423, though the standards continued to vary by locality and content. For example, the OED cites an 1897 edition of Whitaker's Almanack, which specified the number of gallons of wine in a hogshead varying by type of wine: claret (presumably) 46 imperial gallons (55 US gal; 209 L), port 57 imperial gallons (68 US gal; 259 L), sherry 54 imperial gallons (65 US gal; 245 L); and Madeira 46 imperial gallons (55 US gal; 209 L)." How's that for a nice, clear standard of measure? > 5. Prior to the end of the chapter, did you think Frank Bryce would go on to be > a more major character in the series? > As he was a Muggle, no, I didn't. > 6. Do you think that Voldemort tried any other spells on his family before > killing them with the AK? > No, it seemed to have happened quite quickly. > 7. Why do you think that Voldemort chose the house as his hideout? > I think most people, if rejected by their father, would have wanted nothing to do with his house. But LV is exceptional in his need for control. It goes with his mental illness which is commonly known as psychopathy or sociopathy but nowadays goes by some multi-worded name I can never remember. So I could well believe it pleased him to take control of the house where he was not welcome. > 8. Recognizing that he has no say in what Voldemort calls him, do you think that > Peter Pettigrew likes being called Wormtail instead of his original name? > Oh, I am sure LV calls him that because Wormtail hates it. Even in his teenage Marauder days, Wormtail must have known he was not quite a full part of the group, judging by the comments he receives in Snape's Worst Memory. Still, they were the only friends he had. The fact that he betrayed them in the end must have rankled as confirming that he wasn't quite good enough for them after all. Then, LV calling him by the name given him by those same friends must have been like twisting a knife in the wound. "Wormtail" is now a name for a useless, cowardly traitor. > 9. In Voldemort's comment about Bertha being useless, did you think it meant that > she was useless in questioning, or that after the questioning methods, she was > rendered useless. > The latter. I think Barty Crouch, Jr. as much as said her mind was gone. > 10. Do you think that Voldemort knew Frank Bryce was there all along? > There is no indication he did, but I find it impossible to believe they hadn't scouted around a little and noticed the caretaker's cottage on the premises, and that it was still inhabited. Annemehr From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 18 16:55:31 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 18 Sep 2011 16:55:31 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/18/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1316364931.10.37288.m13@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191348 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday September 18, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From puduhepa98 at aol.com Fri Sep 23 03:12:02 2011 From: puduhepa98 at aol.com (nikkalmati) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 03:12:02 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191349 This message is a Special Notice for all members of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups In addition to being published onlist (available in webview), this post is also being delivered off-list (to email inboxes) to those whose "Message Delivery" is set to "Special Notices." If this is problematic or if you have any questions, contact the List Elves at HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (minus that extra space) -------------------------------------------------------------------- GoF Chapdisc 2: The Scar This chapter begins with Harry waking up in his room at the Dursleys' with his scar hurting him. He also has had a dream about Voldemort. Unknown to him, he has seen in his head the events recorded in the first chapter. Harry wonders what it means and what he should do about it. He reviews what Hermione and Ron would say and concludes he can't tell Dumbledore about such a minor thing. He then remembers Sirius and decides to write him to ask his advice. There is very little action in this chapter, but it sets the stage for future events. We are introduced to Harry's ability to see into LV's mind. 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events of the first three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a review? Do you think she thought she would have new readers who did not know the first three books? 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at this point in the story and did you wonder why? 3. Do you think Harry correctly assessed Hermione's and Ron's reactions? Does this show he knows his friends well? 4. Where did you think Sirius was hiding based on the colorful birds he sent? 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by Sirius to get better treatment from the Dursleys? Nikkalmati. NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH Chapter Discussions" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows&tbl=33 Next, Chapter 3 of Goblet of Fire coming up soon. If you would like to volunteer to lead a GOF chapter discussion, please drop a note to HPforGrownups-owner@ yahoogroups.com (without the space). From ddankanyin at cox.net Fri Sep 23 15:14:07 2011 From: ddankanyin at cox.net (dorothy dankanyin) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:14:07 -0400 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar References: Message-ID: <4E2D9BBB781946888D955249D447C80B@DG22FG61> No: HPFGUIDX 191350 From: "nikkalmati" > 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events > of the first three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a > review? Do you think she thought she would have new readers who did > not know the first three books? Dorothy: No, I don't think she was reviewing for new readers, but I do think she wanted to refresh in our minds of what's happening to Harry, and she also is telling us that Harry's scar problems are growing stronger and more exact than just knowing Voldemort is near. > 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at > this point in the story and did you wonder why? Dorothy: I figured he was seeing things as Voldemort was, but I didn't have a clue why. > 3. Do you think Harry correctly assessed Hermione's and Ron's > reactions? Does this show he knows his friends well? Dorothy: Of course he knew how his friends would react to his problem. They had voiced pretty much the same advice for many other things, and he knew that Ron would rely on asking his father, and Hermione would immediately check for facts. > 4. Where did you think Sirius was hiding based on the colorful birds > he sent? Dorothy: As Harry also thought, I thought that Sirius would be in a warm climate, probably South America or an island hideaway. > 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by > Sirius to get better treatment from the Dursleys? Dorothy: Fair? I'm not sure about that, but as far as the Dursleys go, whatever works. Face it, Harry using the threat of violence is not the same as actually using it. From vsteck at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 21:28:41 2011 From: vsteck at gmail.com (vanessa steck) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:28:41 -0400 Subject: chapter questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191351 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events of the first three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a review? Do you think she thought she would have new readers who did not know the first three books? *This has always puzzled me. I mean, HP isn't exactly the Babysitter's Club, so what gives, Jo? One would think that no one would start at GoF, so...why bother, really. * 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at this point in the story and did you wonder why? *Honestly, I never stopped to think while reading these books. I just read them, within 24 hours of getting them, and then I stopped, thought, and reread.* 3. Do you think Harry correctly assessed Hermione's and Ron's reactions? Does this show he knows his friends well? *yes--he definitely knows his friends remarkably well. Actually, I think the Trio is a great example of teenage friendships, when everyone knows each other really well and everything is very intense. *4. Where did you think Sirius was hiding based on the colorful birds he sent? *somewhere tropical!* 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by Sirius to get better treatment from the Dursleys? *yes. yes, yes, yes. I suppose I might feel a little bad about it if I were a better person, but I'm not, so I don't.* -- *vanessa steck. blog . facebook. twitter . 2024233517* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com Sat Sep 24 22:07:47 2011 From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 22:07:47 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191352 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" wrote: > GoF Chapdisc 2: The Scar > > This chapter begins with Harry waking up in his room at the Dursleys' with his > scar hurting him. He also has had a dream about Voldemort. Unknown to him, he > has seen in his head the events recorded in the first chapter. Harry wonders > what it means and what he should do about it. He reviews what Hermione and Ron > would say and concludes he can't tell Dumbledore about such a minor thing. He > then remembers Sirius and decides to write him to ask his advice. There is > very little action in this chapter, but it sets the stage for future events. We > are introduced to Harry's ability to see into LV's mind. > 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events of the first > three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a review? Do you think she > thought she would have new readers who did not know the first three books? Geoff: It's what she did at the beginning of COS and POA. It's no worse than the "In last week's episode" that we often get on a TV drama when we are reminded of a few of the principal bits of the previous episode. By OOTP, JKR has obviously decided that anyone not knowing the story should be sent to Professor Snape for detention to read the first four books. :-( > 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at this point > in the story and did you wonder why? Geoff: Not at that point. It was obvious that Harry had had some sort of vision linking him to the events in the Riddle house but how it worked was not immediately apparent. > 3. Do you think Harry correctly assessed Hermione's and Ron's reactions? Does > this show he knows his friends well? Geoff: Certainly, he has Hermione sized up. > 4. Where did you think Sirius was hiding based on the colorful birds he sent? Geoff: I would have tended to go for Africa. > 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by Sirius to get > better treatment from the Dursleys? Geoff: I think there is a subtle suggestion of trouble at the end of POA when Harry tells Vernon that Sirius likes to keep in touch and know he's happy. How he will act on this is left to Vernon's imagination. However, isn't this a case of "desperate times call for desperate measures"? OK, "desperate" is perhaps a bit OTT, but it is helping to curb Vernon's behaviour a little. From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Sep 25 16:55:38 2011 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 25 Sep 2011 16:55:38 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 9/25/2011, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1316969738.22.62249.m3@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 191353 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo! Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday September 25, 2011 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (This event repeats every week.) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2011 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy Policy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms of Service: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annemehr at yahoo.com Sun Sep 25 19:24:45 2011 From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:24:45 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191354 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" wrote: > 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events of the first > three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a review? Do you think she > thought she would have new readers who did not know the first three books? Annemehr: There have been plenty of people who read them out of order. I actually read them 1, 3, 2, 4... the first time. And she may have had younger readers in mind, - maybe she thought a recap might be useful. > > 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at this point > in the story and did you wonder why? Annemehr: Harry did not see these events from LV's point of view, but watched them all as an outsider. While Harry was trying to remember the dream, it says, "...all Harry knew was that at the moment when Voldemort's chair had swung around, and he, Harry, had seen what was sitting in it, he had felt a spasm of horror which had awoken him..." Knowing what we do now, that does seem kind of strange. At the time, I just thought the scar link, whatever it was, was getting stronger. > 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by Sirius to get > better treatment from the Dursleys? Annemehr: Oh, sure. It's strictly self-defense. He's absolutely nowhere near doing tit-for-tat, and I don't hold an ethos that calls for anyone to be a doormat. Thanks for the questions! I have an extra one. Harry did not mention the dream at all in his letter to Sirius, only the pain in his scar. On the one hand, if he wanted good advice, it would have been best to give complete information. On the other hand, he didn't want to worry Sirius too much, which was a valid concern considering how upset Harry was when Sirius did come back to Hogsmeade. Do you think Harry should have told about the dream in his letter? Annemehr From thedossetts at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 01:13:34 2011 From: thedossetts at gmail.com (rtbthw_mom) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:13:34 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch 2: The Scar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 191355 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" wrote: snip of excellent summary > > 1. Most of this chapter is devoted to a quick review of the events of the first > three books. Why do you think Jo decided to do a review? Do you think she > thought she would have new readers who did not know the first three books? > Pat: I felt that the review this time around wasn't quite as detailed as we find in other books. But I continue to feel that anyone who tries to read these out of order (especially starting with later books) needs their head examined! Most books that are serialized have an inner and extended story arc. You lose that if you skip around. Pat > 2. Did you understand that Harry was able to see into LV's mind at this point > in the story and did you wonder why? Pat: No, I'm one of those who just read through to find out what's happening and think about what it all means later. Pat > > 3. Do you think Harry correctly assessed Hermione's and Ron's reactions? Does > this show he knows his friends well? Pat: Harry definitely knows his friends! Pat > > 4. Where did you think Sirius was hiding based on the colorful birds he sent? Pat: Whenever I read this part, I like to imagine Sirius sending those birds from a South Sea island. Maybe it's just that I have always felt so bad for him, spending all those years in Azkaban. But I wanted him to have a nice vacation, and time to recuperate, now that his ordeal was over. So, for me, he's somewhere exotic! Pat > > 5. Is it fair of Harry to use the implied threat of violence by Sirius to get > better treatment from the Dursleys? Pat: I have no problem with this. By this book, I was getting a little tired of the Dursley's treatment of Harry. JKR is famous (at least on this list) for her karmic justice, and I was looking forward to some, at least in a minor way (enough for him to have some respite from their treatment). Pat > > Nikkalmati. > > >Thanks, Nikkalmati! Enjoyed this! Annemehr: Harry did not mention the dream at all in his letter to Sirius, only the pain in his scar. On the one hand, if he wanted good advice, it would have been best to give complete information. On the other hand, he didn't want to worry Sirius too much, which was a valid concern considering how upset Harry was when Sirius did come back to Hogsmeade. Do you think Harry should have told about the dream in his letter? Annemehr Pat: In a perfect teen world, yes, Harry should have mentioned the dream. But teens being what they are - not fully developed in any sense of the word - I think that would have been more unrealistic. Most teens I have known (I have four grown kids and a teen at home now) would not have thought it out that much. I found the "I have a question" mentality that Harry shows here to be what I would expect from most teens; in other words, I have a question - but I forget to mention what brought that question up. I find I need to question my teens as to why they have a specific question so that I can give them a better answer. Sirius had no experience at all as a parent or even an adult in a teen's life, so I didn't expect it from him, either. This was totally believable to me. Pat Thanks, Annemehr, too!