The Overarching message (of the HP books)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 191678



.> Nikkalmati
>.>  Unlike others on the list, I don't believe  Snape or DD ever used Legitimacy secretly.  In fact, to answer Steve, the fact that Harry is not aware of being Legitimized is proof that it doeesn't happen.  Consider the examples of Legitimacy we know about.  In every case the victim was aware of what was happening and even what the other person was seeing.  Harry knows what Snape sees in the lessons because he sees exactly the same visions. When Snape attempts to enter Draco's mind, in HBP, Draco knows exactly what Snape is doing and intentionally uses Occlumancy to stop him.  When Snape enters Harry's mind after Draco is injured in the bathroom, Harry again knows exactly what Snape is seeing.  BTW you could argue this invasion was not consented to, but Harry did not actually object, he had nearly killed Draco (and Snape too, of course), he had lied when questioned about it, and Snape looks only for the memory of the Potions book. 

Alla:

Well, Harry does not know yet (in PoA) what Legilimency is, but as far as I remember he is aware that Snape is reading his mind, but of course if you hold the position that Harry was imagining things when he thought Snape and Dumbledore poked in his mind, we just have to agree to disagree. I could swear that there is at least one clear example when Voldemort uses Legilimency and victim is not aware of that, but we are, but it escapes me when and how it happened. Maybe somebody else will remember it if I wont. Oh and most certainly silence for me is not consent, but I just want to add that Harry certainly almost killed Draco, after Draco tried to hit him with Unforgivable first. No, I am not trying to defend Harry here, but I object when that scene becomes "Harry attacked Draco first" scene, so wanted to add that.

Nikkalmati:
> The only person who clearly invades another person's mind without permission is Harry.  He does it to Snape - twice. He saw into Snape's mind as a result of the backlash from the Occlumancy lessons (agreed that this was unintended).  He also invades Snape's mind when he looks into the Pensieve without permission and views the memories stored there. 

Alla:

I hold a different opinion, I think Snape and Dumbledore did it several times to him before. I also agree that Snape did not agree to Harry looking in his memories, but to me looking into object is different from invading a mind of a person. Although before you say so, I certainly agree that effect is absolutely same, I guess I just do not see how object can say do not enter.