Occlumency VERY VERY LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 191744



.>  
> > Alla:
> > 
> > Harry has control to decide whom to ask for help? Harry never violated Dumbledore's instructions where it mattered before, why would he start doing so now? 
> 
> Pippin:
> You mean, except for the time when Harry decided to leave Hogwarts and rescue Sirius from the Ministry? Because that was the incident that convinced Dumbledore that he *couldn't* control Harry -- that Harry would never be willing to wait out the war while someone else, Sirius and Lupin, for example, fought Voldemort for him. 
> 
> But if I understand you correctly, what Harry would have done, if Dumbledore hadn't messed with his head, is say to himself, "Wait, three kids trying to stop Voldemort is crazy...there's gotta be a better way?"  He should have been more like ....wait for it....Slughorn????
> 
> Because that's what Slughorn is saying, isn't it? Wait a minute Minerva, there has to be a wiser plan than a handful of teachers and teenagers against the armies of the most powerful Dark Lord who ever existed. But Slughorn looks like a coward in Harry's eyes for even raising the issue, because Harry can't imagine any reason for refusing to fight a losing battle when others are in danger except a selfish one. 

Alla:

You mean he should have thought about the ways of finding help and coming back to battle like Slugghorn? Thats one possibility, for sure.
But mostly what I think Harry could have thought of about if Dumbledore did not mess up with his head was to at least think about how incredibly crazy some of old coot's instructions sounded. Three kids fighting Voldemort? Well, when they are seventeen, I sure do not think it is that crazy when they are *among the fighters" against Voldemort. But when Dumbledore makes them to do it alone, do I think it is crazy? You bet I do, crazy, evil and all kinds of things. Maybe if Dumbledore did not mess up with his head, Harry would have stopped and think about why is it Okay to tell Hermione and Ron about horcruxes, but not Lupin who is an experienced fighter since the first war? Maybe Harry would have realized that Dumbledore's paranoya should not apply to some people. Yes, yes I remember Pettigrew, but I maintain that this only made Dumbledore's paranoia worse and one has to trust somebody or one is bound to loose. I wonder if Harry framing his refusal to accept Lupin's help in the "go home to your baby" terms was another conditioning. Of course Dumbledore all along thought that nobody is nowhere close his level of brilliance and he apparently decided that he can make Harry to be just as alone and desperate, only thank goodness he decided Ron and Hermione deserve to be told. Maybe if Dumbledore did not mess up with his head, Harry would have realized that the less ridiculous notion than not to tell Minerva Mcgonagall about what exactly they were looking for hardly exists and Minerva proved by that time that she is not going to go to Voldemort and tell him Harry's secrets? Maybe they were able to find it faster? But I bet anything that Dumbledore's voice was in Harry's mind (no, before you ask I do not have a canon for that lol, it is my speculation) any time accepting request for help may have entered his mind.)

But of course again I know in what genre JKR was writing about and three kids going on suicidal mission and winning looks attractive, but I am convinced that it makes Dumbledore to look terrible.


Pippin: 
> And Harry never wanted to be a Slytherin -- he not only didn't want to give into his selfish impulses, he didn't even want to *have* selfish impulses. I am sure that if Harry had chosen to be a Slytherin, Dumbledore would have found that only a minor impediment to his plans-- he had little trouble getting Snape, Slughorn or Draco to carry out his wishes. But since Harry had thrown himself heart and soul into being a Gryffindor, Dumbledore knew that when the time came Harry would not need to be persuaded. 

Alla:

Hm, may his not wanting to be a Slytherin has something to do with his upbringing at Dursleys?