Chapter Discussion: Goblet of Fire Ch. 7: Bagman and Crouch

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 191759



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:
>
> ....
> 
> GOBLET OF FIRE CH. 7: Bagman and Crouch
> 
> ....
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1. Mr Roberts asked a lot of questions about all the strange 
> things he was noticing. Did you think he was nosey, or just
> reasonably curious? How did you feel when the Ministry wizard 
> Obliviated him?
> 

Steve:

I should go back and re-read that section, but it seems to me that the Security Wizards were positively frantic. They seem very much understaffed and overworked, and Ludo Bagman is not there providing direction to them. So, they are left to fend for themselves. 

Consequently, being overstressed and overworked, they felt they had no choice but to apply the most expedient solution, which was Obliviate. Though I felt Mr Robert's curiosity was reasonable. 

Now if Bagman has been on the ball, he could have made up a good cover story like - we are all descended from the Czech Republic and this is a celebration in which we all dress in traditional Czech garb. 

I suspect that would have been sufficiently obscure that Mr. Roberts wouldn't have known the difference. That or a similarly obscure cover story. But Bagman was too busy trying to raise gambling money and talk about old times to do his job, so the security wizards were force to make it up as they went along. I suspect even they did not feel Obliviate was the best or the most ethical choice, but when you've got 50 'wildfires' that need putting out, you get this one done quickly and move on to the next. 


> 2. Mr Weasley mentioned that Ludo Bagman has always been a bit
> lax about security. Does this have any bearing on your opinion
> of whether Ludo knew Rookwood was a Death Eater when he passed
> information to him?
> 

Steve:

I think, no offense intended, that Bagman was an airhead jock whose glory days were behind him. He is a great guy to invite to a party to regal the crowd with tails of those glory days, but he is not competent to do any job at all. But he does have some status as a Quidditch player, and he does seem well connected, as well as gifted at butt kissing. So, they found him some job at the Ministry. 

I don't think Bagman was malicious, in that he did not willfully give away information to the enemy, in fact, Rookwood was deep in the Ministry and Bagman reasonably thought he was giving information to the good guys. 

But it just shows how clueless and desperate Bagman was. He knew he had no marketable skills, but he also knew he did not want to spend his declining years waiting on tables. So, he curried favor where he could. 


> 3. Archie, who likes a healthy breeze, apparently never wears
> trousers. Do you think he is typical of wizards or not?
> 

Steve:

To that I ask, what does a Scotsman were under his kilts? Since the wizard world wears primarily robs, I can see that a lot of people, whether they wear underwear or not, like a healthy breeze around their privates. 

Obviously though this was simply in the story for comedic effect, and I think in that sense, it worked very well. But in a world where Robes are the standard article of clothing, I do think trousers are rare. 

> 4. Barty Crouch obviously knows Arthur Weasley quite well. And
> yet he does not know Percy as Arthur's son though he must have 
> been introduced as such. Does this show something about Crouch's
> character, or is "Weatherby" just a joke?
> 

Steve:

Pardon me while I digress a bit. I'm reminded of celebrities and autograph seeking fans. The fans see themselves as individual in an individual one-on-one encounter with a celebrity. But the celebrity does not see this as a one-on-one encounter, he see it as a one-on-millions encounter. Consequently when the Celeb does not react up to fan expectations, and take a personal interest in the fan, the fan is naturally disappointed.

I think that is true of Crouch. Percy see Crouch as one man to adore. But Crouch see the entire Ministry and wizard world as thousands of people to keep track of. 

A fan will remember a celeb encounter as a once in a lifetime encounter, but to the celeb, it is one of countless millions of such encounters. The same is true of Crouch. Percy only has to remember and adore one person, but Crouch has to keep track of hundreds and he puts effort into remembering based on his perceived priority of the individual. If it is a high dignitary from another country, Crouch is going to remember, but if it is one of hundreds on junior Ministry employees, Crouch is going to give little thought to their name, until such time as that name become significant to him. 

I think if Mr. Weasley has made it more clear that Percy was his son, it would have stuck a little tighter in Mr Crouch's mind. But, even so, while Crouch was on speaking terms with Mr. Weasley, I don't think he held Arthur in all that high of regard. 

Notice in the next book, when Percy become Crouch's personal assistant, Percy as an extension of the Weasley clan, and an extension of a close association with Harry Potter, become very significant, and Crouch has no trouble remembering his name. 


> 5. Ali Bashir wants to sell flying carpets in Britain, but Arthur
> explained to him that the Registry of Proscribed Charmable Objects
> lists carpets as a Muggle Artifact. Given that Muggles have brooms
> too, do you think the carpet ban is just politics? What do you
> think of Arthur's part in this?
> 

Steve:

I think as others have said, the Flying Brooms are a historical objects in Britain, but Flying Carpets are a new foreign objects. Being a new and foreign object, it is harder to get it on the list of acceptably charmable objects. In addition, I think there is a degree of protectionism there. They are trying to preserve the British broom market for falling apart with the introduction of Carpets. 

The obvious advantage of a Flying Carpet is that it is easier to take your entire family with you on a single flying object. At best, a Broom might accommodate two. 

I've solved that problem by inventing (in fan fiction) the Comet Rubeus I cargo broom. Harry invents a Hagrid sized broom intended to be a one-off present for Hagrid. (Actually, they made 4 in the first run) But it catches on, and Hagrid adds a carriage that hangs under the boom. This becomes perfect for hauling cargo or families, and the broom become very popular. 

Sorry for that fantasy diversion. But it shows that wizard ingenuity can, if they try, overcome the apparent advantages of the Flying Carpet. 

So, I think a significant degree of the prohibition of the Flying Carpet is protectionism for the British Wizard broom industry. 


> 6. When you first read about the exciting event to take place at
> Hogwarts, did  you think of any possibilities? What were they?
> 

Steve:

I'm not one to stop and analyze in the moment. If a mystery like this comes up, I just keep reading on the assumption that it will eventually be revealed. Certainly I was intrigued by what it might be, but there is no point in speculation in the moment when it will be revealed in the story ... eventually. 


> 7. Please add any other questions to the list.
> 

Steve:

No additional question, but good job on the questions you did come up with. 

Steve/bboyminn