From annemehr at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  9 20:06:08 2012
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 20:06:08 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fourteen, Goblet of Fire: The Unforgivable Curses
In-Reply-To: <k19s55+14k7@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k2isrg+tomk@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192207





> Pippin:
> > Harry was never terribly interested in Neville. 


> Geoff:
> I feel that that is a rather harsh interpretation. In any group of the type 
> we see in Hogwarts, there are very close friends, others with whom we 
> share some interaction and some with whom we have little connection 
> other than being in the same class.
> 
<snip>
> 
> I think Neville probably falls into the middle group.

Annemehr:
Yes... but just barely.  In fact, I don't think Harry "shares some interaction" with anybody outside of Ron and Hermione on purpose, unless you count the Quidditch team.

Geoff:
> There is certainly 
> evidence that Harry looks out for Neville on more than one occasion 
> prior to the one in Moody's class and he seems a little closer to Neville 
> when he finds out about Neville's tragic background from Dumbledore 
> late in this book. Just to give a handful of instances which occur to me:
> 
> When the group are at their first Quidditch lesson and Neville falls off 
> his broom, Harry takes issue with Malfoy over Neville's Rememberall 
> and gets it back from him in the aerial chase which ensued.
> (PS "The Midnight Duel" pp.109/10 UK edition)
> 
> When Neville comes back into the Common Room after Malfoy has cast 
> a Leg-Locker Curse and he is released and seems down because he 
> doesn't feel brave, Harry gives him a Chocolate Frog and tells him that 
> he is worth twelve of Malfoy in an attempt to lift his spirits.
> (PS "Nicholas Flamel" pp.160/61 UK edition)
> 
> When the Trio plus Malfoy and Neville are in the Forbidden Forest with 
> Hagrid and red sparks go off, Hagrid goes to see what has happened,
> HArry expresses a view that he doesn't care if Malfoy has been hurt 
> but is concerned about Neville because it is their fault he is in detention.
> (PS "The Forbidden Forest" p.186 UK edition)

Annemehr:
Of these examples, the first and third are prompted by Harry's tendency to want to rescue people, probably augmented by a feeling that both situations are Malfoy's fault.

The middle one, when Harry gave Neville a Chocolate Frog, is the only example of a really friendly gesture from Harry to Neville that I can think of at the moment.

Geoff: 
> There are more instances, as I suggested, later in the books, later than 
> the chapter we are considering.
>

Annemehr:
There may be.  I can't think of any that are real instances of friendship or cordiality as opposed to just being thrown together by circumstance.  At least, not until later in DH after Neville had demonstrated some competent heroism himself.

I don't *really* intend to be criticising Harry here.  Actually I'm just frustrated because from the first book I saw Neville as an interesting character full of potential, and was continually disappointed that Harry never did.  Because without Harry's interest (and by extension, JKR's?) there was never nearly enough Neville in the books.

Or to put it another way, it seems to me that Harry usually had the same estimation of Neville that Neville himself did.  And in the first six books, that was much too low.

Annemehr





From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com  Tue Sep 11 19:53:02 2012
From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:53:02 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fourteen, Goblet of Fire: The Unforgivable Curses
In-Reply-To: <k2isrg+tomk@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k2o4qu+401f@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192208

-- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:
 
Geoff: 
> > There are more instances, as I suggested, later in the books, later than 
> > the chapter we are considering.
> >
> 
> Annemehr:
> There may be.  I can't think of any that are real instances of friendship or cordiality as opposed to just being thrown together by circumstance.  At least, not until later in DH after Neville had demonstrated some competent heroism himself.
> 
> I don't *really* intend to be criticising Harry here.  Actually I'm just frustrated because from the first book I saw Neville as an interesting character full of potential, and was continually disappointed that Harry never did.  Because without Harry's interest (and by extension, JKR's?) there was never nearly enough Neville in the books.
> 
> Or to put it another way, it seems to me that Harry usually had the same estimation of Neville that Neville himself did.  And in the first six books, that was much too low.

Geoff:
I'm afraid that I stick with my comments in post 192205.

In my class at Grammar School, many of us had a couple of close friends 
and a lesser degree of contact with others. "Being thrown together by 
circumstance" didn't mean that we had a low opinion of them or ignored 
them. We would acknowledge them if we met outside school and we 
would interact in circumstances where we came together perhaps in a group 
but might not necessarily seek out each other individually. 

In adult life - in teaching for example - my fellow colleagues and I would 
usually maintain amicable contact (excepting perhaps the odd "Snape" type 
on the staff!) but again, there were depths of contact outside our discipline; 
mutual friends, hobbies and interests, life views. 

I think that the interaction in Gryffindor was much more multi-layered than 
the perhaps two-level situation you see. Perhaps this is a gender thing for I 
see it a lot in male groups.




From annemehr at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 13 00:29:00 2012
From: annemehr at yahoo.com (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:29:00 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fourteen, Goblet of Fire: The Unforgivable Curses
In-Reply-To: <k2o4qu+401f@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k2r9cc+79g6@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192209


> Geoff:
 
> I think that the interaction in Gryffindor was much more multi-layered than 
> the perhaps two-level situation you see. Perhaps this is a gender thing for I 
> see it a lot in male groups.
>

Annemehr:

Perhaps it is a gender thing.  I am very much an introvert (like, presumably, Harry), but I still talk to my acquaintances when we are thrown together, even when my closer friends are there too.  Harry really only seems to speak when spoken to!

But if the dynamic feels normal to you, I suppose I'll take your word for it. :)




From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com  Thu Sep 13 06:52:20 2012
From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 06:52:20 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fourteen, Goblet of Fire: The Unforgivable Curses
In-Reply-To: <k2r9cc+79g6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k2rvr4+p47e@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192210

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:

Geoff: 
> > I think that the interaction in Gryffindor was much more multi-layered than 
> > the perhaps two-level situation you see. Perhaps this is a gender thing for I 
> > see it a lot in male groups.
 
> Annemehr:
> Perhaps it is a gender thing.  I am very much an introvert (like, presumably, Harry), but I still talk to my acquaintances when we are thrown together, even when my closer friends are there too.  Harry really only seems to speak when spoken to!
 
But if the dynamic feels normal to you, I suppose I'll take your word for it. :)

Geoff:
Like Harry - and you - I am something of a natural introvert, although teaching 
at secondary school level for 30+ years did bring about some changes (!). I have 
often said in past messages that I can see myself in my teenage years as acting 
in a very similar fashion to Harry and find it easy to follow his reactions.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 18 09:12:04 2012
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (bboyminn)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:12:04 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fourteen, Goblet of Fire: The Unforgivable Curses
In-Reply-To: <k2r9cc+79g6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k39dt4+9fmm@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192213

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Geoff:
>  
> > I think that the interaction in Gryffindor was much more multi-
> > layered than the perhaps two-level situation you see. Perhaps 
> > this is a gender thing for I see it a lot in male groups.
> >
> 
> Annemehr:
> 
> Perhaps it is a gender thing.  I am very much an introvert (like, presumably, Harry), but I still talk to my acquaintances when we are thrown together, even when my closer friends are there too.  Harry really only seems to speak when spoken to!
> 
> But if the dynamic feels normal to you, I suppose I'll take your word for it. :)
>

Steve:

This is a very interesting Sub-Discussion. When I think back on school, there were many people I was friendly with, but 'friendly with' is not the same as friends. I was friendly with everyone, but friends with very very few. 

Circumstances throw you together with other people, in school, at work, in daily life. You are compelled by social structure to get along with these people. 

Let's look at it from this perspective. During the time in question, or even the full span of Harry's years at Hogwarts, what do you suppose Harry would say if asked "Is Neville your friend?" I think he would say "Yes, I like Neville". But that is not a ringing endorsement. I think his responses is different and softer than if asked if he likes Ron or Hermione. 

I also think it is valid to point out, that Harry is not exactly the life of the party. He is not the person that stands in the middle of the room and draws attention to himself. I think partly by nature and partly by conditioning, Harry is the guy standing on the side watching others be the life of the party. 

Yes, Harry is frequently at the center of the action, but virtually never at the center of the party, and when he is, it is not comfortably so. 

Harry keeps his head down. When he does act, it tends to be covertly. He is skulking about in the middle of night, not prancing around in broad daylight. 

Harry is not seeking attention nor is he seeking out friendship. Ron and Hermione just sort of fall in his lap. He does not seek them out with the intent of making friends. They find him and become friends.

I think living at the Dursley's has conditioned Harry to keep his head down and not draw attention to himself. But it has also conditioned a degree of defiance in him, that we also see later when he is at Hogwarts. 

I think Harry does consider Neville a friend, and someone who deserves that friendship. But, Neville is not Harry's best friend or confidant. That would be Ron and Hermione who are friend on a whole different level. 

So, this is a multi-leveled thing, circles within circles, layers upon layer. It is not as simple as friend or not friend. I think Harry develops a bond with Neville from the beginning, a bond that only strengthens in his time at Hogwarts, and in my view, continues to strengthen as the years go on. But, it is never going to be at the level of the friendship with Ron or Hermione. 

I think it is a complex issue. 

Steve/bboyminn





From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 01:31:51 2012
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:31:51 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
Message-ID: <k3drm7+s73h@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192214

With many thanks to Zara as usual for her help here we go :)


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Chapter 15
Beauxbatons  and Durmstrang

This chapter features Harry writing a letter to Sirius in which he tries to
discount the pain of his scar. Sirius sees through it. We see Harry successfully
resisting the Imperius curse during Moody's lesson. The amount of school work
for the fourth years is increasing. Harry and Co. think that Snape promised to
poison them to see if they can cook the antidote, McGonagall snaps at Neville,
so life at Hogwarts is as usual. Ron and Hermione debate whether she likes
people just because they are handsome. Beauxbatons and Durmstrang delegations
finally arrive.



Questions:
1. To jump on the question from the previous chapter about Dumbledore wanting 
Fake!Moody to demonstrate Unforgivables in all their glory ? in this one Moody
claims Dumbledore wanted him to put the Imperio on the students. I believed him
without any hesitation, but you all know how I feel about Dumbledore, so could
somebody please convince me that this was Fake!Moody's own desire and
Dumbledore had nothing to do with it?
2. My attitude about the kids' potential love interests was always along the
lines of "I really really do not give a flying fig whom they end up with, as long
as the Trio survives". I was too busy imagining Sirius and Snape ending up
together ;) But at the same time I also thought that Ron and Hermione were
bound to end up together, and their banter in this chapter was a classic example
why, to me anyway. I guess my question is not why anybody thought differently, I
am sure people have many reasons, but more along the lines what else did their
banter signify for you, if not the comedical chemistry of two sidekicks of the
main character which heavily foreshadows a love story for them?
3. According to narrator Snape "hinted" that he might be poisoning one of the
kids before Christmas, even I Snape "fan" I am found this assumption very funny
on this reread. What about you?
4. What did you think of Hagrid's attempt to control Malfoy's behavior during
his lesson?
5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
not more widely used in the Potterverse?
6. Karkaroff's smile "did not extend to  his eyes, which remain cold and shrewd"
when he greeted Dumbledore. Usually when a new character is introduced like that
? his smile did not reach his eyes ? it often raises my suspicions about the
character's intentions. I of course do not remember what was my first reaction
to meeting Karkaroff, but if you do, was this a warning for you or not? Where
there other hints you felt laid suspicion on Karkaroff?
7. In this chapter we hear about increased amount of work kids have to do on
multiple subjects, but we do not see those lessons in details except Moody's
DADA lesson. Did you find interesting whatever you did hear abou those lessons?
Did you wish for more details? What other magic did you enjoy seeing the kids
study? What magic do you wish we had seen more of them studying?

8. Add your own question.

Alla



NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH
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From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com  Fri Sep 21 19:21:30 2012
From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 19:21:30 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3drm7+s73h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k3ienq+u4pf@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192215



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:

> Chapter 15
> Beauxbatons  and Durmstrang


> Questions:
Geoff:
Just a couple of suggestions for the time being.

> 4. What did you think of Hagrid's attempt to control Malfoy's behavior during
> his lesson?

Geoff:
Well, it seemed to work; it shut him up, didn't it? <eg>

> 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
> apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
> not more widely used in the Potterverse?

Geoff:
>From canon:
'"A Portkey?" Ron suggested. "Or they could Apparate - maybe you're 
allowed  do it under seventeen wherever they come from?"

"You can't Apparate inside the Hogwarts grounds. how often do I have to tell
you?" said Hermione impatiently.'
(GOF "Beauxbatons and Durmstrang" p.213 UK edition)

OK, that's Apparition eliminated...

We do know that a number of people can Portkey together as the group
did from Stoatshead Hill in Chapter 6. But this begs the question 'Can you
Portkey something big like a ship?' Also, from the description of a Portkey's
operation in that chapter I get the impression that this journey, like 
Apparition is very quick and you "come out of warp" at the point you choose 
which, incidentally,  rather makes a mockery of the way the films have 
handled the two transportation methods.

To be quite frank, I haven't thought about it in the past but I feel it has to be 
something other than these two we have mentioned. Maybe there are spells 
to transport objects plus users which are not generally known... Maybe a 
Dark Arts spell? We do have instances later, certainly in DH, of Voldemort 
and Snape flying without broomsticks so there must be other methods 
which JKR didn't trouble to document.






From natti_shafer at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 21:23:41 2012
From: natti_shafer at yahoo.com (Nathaniel)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:23:41 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3ienq+u4pf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k3ilst+k1pb@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192216





--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123 at ...> wrote:
> > 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
> > apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
> > not more widely used in the Potterverse?
> 
> Geoff:
> To be quite frank, I haven't thought about it in the past but I feel it has to be 
> something other than these two we have mentioned. Maybe there are spells 
> to transport objects plus users which are not generally known... Maybe a 
> Dark Arts spell? We do have instances later, certainly in DH, of Voldemort 
> and Snape flying without broomsticks so there must be other methods 
> which JKR didn't trouble to document.
>

Nathaniel:
The Durmstrang ship emerges, submarine-like, from under the water. It seems to me that the ship traveled like a submarine most of the way to Hogwarts, including up the river from the ocean. 

A lake needs a river entering it and exiting it to exist. We never hear of a river into the lake, but even if it's a small river, it must be there. Whatever magic allows the ship to submerge must also allow it to travel on non-navigable rivers.

JK Rowling intentionally left the location of Durmstrang ambiguous, but to make sense, it needs an outlet to the sea.




From foxmoth at qnet.com  Fri Sep 21 21:55:14 2012
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:55:14 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3drm7+s73h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k3ino2+8qrq@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192217

 
> Questions:
> 1. To jump on the question from the previous chapter about Dumbledore wanting 
> Fake!Moody to demonstrate Unforgivables in all their glory ? in this one Moody
> claims Dumbledore wanted him to put the Imperio on the students. I believed him
> without any hesitation, but you all know how I feel about Dumbledore, so could
> somebody please convince me that this was Fake!Moody's own desire and
> Dumbledore had nothing to do with it?

Pippin:
Not me. Fake!Moody made no effort to keep this a secret. So he either had, or took it for granted that he would get, the tacit consent of not only Dumbledore but the Ministry and the parents (even the Malfoys, I suppose.) Wizards just don't have the concept that their wills ought to be inviolable and there's no such thing as a benign use of such power. Even Hermione only objects because it's illegal, not because she thinks they're going to be harmed. 

Moody's explanation, IIRC, is that Dumbledore wants the students to know how it feels. I have puzzled over that myself, because what good did it do?  Only Harry learned to resist the curse, and no one, even Harry, learned to recognize the signs that someone might be under it, at least not in time to do any good. 

But it does make a difference, IMO, in the way that victims of the curse are treated. Harry, who had this lesson, believes that Stan Shunpike shouldn't be held responsible for his actions under the curse, while Lupin and Percy, who didn't have it, are inclined to retaliate against Stan and Pius Thicknesse regardless. 



> 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
> apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
> not more widely used in the Potterverse?


Pippin:
I thought it traveled by underground rivers, and was chosen by JKR to emphasize the affinity between the Durmstrang students and Slytherin as the water House. Of course the Beaux Batons students arrive by air, and are seated with the Ravenclaws. 

It may be that Slytherin's somewhat sinister reputation has made British wizards wary of water magic in general. Or perhaps this is just a secret of Durmstrang, never shared with the outside world.

Pippin




From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com  Fri Sep 21 22:32:52 2012
From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 22:32:52 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3ilst+k1pb@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k3ipuk+uags@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192218



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Nathaniel" <natti_shafer at ...> wrote:
 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123@> wrote:
> > > 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
> > > apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
> > > not more widely used in the Potterverse?
> > 
> > Geoff:
> > To be quite frank, I haven't thought about it in the past but I feel it has to be 
> > something other than these two we have mentioned. Maybe there are spells 
> > to transport objects plus users which are not generally known... Maybe a 
> > Dark Arts spell? We do have instances later, certainly in DH, of Voldemort 
> > and Snape flying without broomsticks so there must be other methods 
> > which JKR didn't trouble to document.
> >
> 
> Nathaniel:
> The Durmstrang ship emerges, submarine-like, from under the water. It seems to me that the ship traveled like a submarine most of the way to Hogwarts, including up the river from the ocean. 
> 
> A lake needs a river entering it and exiting it to exist. We never hear of a river into the lake, but even if it's a small river, it must be there. Whatever magic allows the ship to submerge must also allow it to travel on non-navigable rivers.
> 
> JK Rowling intentionally left the location of Durmstrang ambiguous, but to make sense, it needs an outlet to the sea.

Geoff:
>From the description of the ship's arrival, I get the feeling that it is a fairly 
big ship - seemingly something like a galleon (although that may be 
triggered by the film) but with a high mast, it would probably not be able 
to travel submerged and unseen.

There is also a question of the loch besides which Hogwarts is situated. Some
years ago, there was a long discussion on this group as to where Hogwarts 
was in the Highlands.

I argued that it had to be remote and, in my own mind, placed it somewhere 
around the Knoydart peninsula, south of Kyle of Lochhalsh and south-east 
of the Isle of Skye, being one of the remotest areas of the north-west 
Highlands with virtually no roads. What may have a possible bearing on this 
matter is that around the area, there are many sea-lochs which have direct 
access from the sea. The fresh water lochs are all more inland and often 
have quite narrow rivers flowing from them which might fit your scenario.

This then raises the point of why does the ship travel submerged anyway -if 
it hadn't used some magical means to appear in the Hogwarts loch? The 
Beauxbatons coach was quite visible to the students on its approach and 
appeared to have come all the way like that. Had it been Disillusioned against 
Muggles until on final approach? Why did the Durmstrang ship not travel in 
a similar way on the surface?

One other interesting snippet regarding this occurs, albeit well ahead of 
where we are currently investigating:

'"Wonder how the Durmstrang students are getting back?" said Ron. :D'you 
reckon they can steer that ship without Karkaroff?"

"Karkaroff did not steer,: said a gruff voice. "He stayed in his cabin and let 
us do the vork." Krum had come to say goodbye to Hermione...'
(GOF "The Beginning" p.628/29 UK edition)

I doubt whether this solves any problems, just throws up another tranche 
of them. 
:-(









From natti_shafer at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 19:35:55 2012
From: natti_shafer at yahoo.com (Nathaniel)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:35:55 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3ipuk+uags@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k3l3ur+7t52@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192219



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123 at ...> wrote:

> Geoff:
> From the description of the ship's arrival, I get the feeling that it is a fairly 
> big ship - seemingly something like a galleon (although that may be 
> triggered by the film) but with a high mast, it would probably not be able 
> to travel submerged and unseen.
> 
> There is also a question of the loch besides which Hogwarts is situated. Some
> years ago, there was a long discussion on this group as to where Hogwarts 
> was in the Highlands.
> 
> I argued that it had to be remote and, in my own mind, placed it somewhere 
> around the Knoydart peninsula, south of Kyle of Lochhalsh and south-east 
> of the Isle of Skye, being one of the remotest areas of the north-west 
> Highlands with virtually no roads. What may have a possible bearing on this 
> matter is that around the area, there are many sea-lochs which have direct 
> access from the sea. The fresh water lochs are all more inland and often 
> have quite narrow rivers flowing from them which might fit your scenario.
> 
> This then raises the point of why does the ship travel submerged anyway -if 
> it hadn't used some magical means to appear in the Hogwarts loch? The 
> Beauxbatons coach was quite visible to the students on its approach and 
> appeared to have come all the way like that. Had it been Disillusioned against 
> Muggles until on final approach? Why did the Durmstrang ship not travel in 
> a similar way on the surface?
> 
> One other interesting snippet regarding this occurs, albeit well ahead of 
> where we are currently investigating:
> 
> '"Wonder how the Durmstrang students are getting back?" said Ron. :D'you 
> reckon they can steer that ship without Karkaroff?"
> 
> "Karkaroff did not steer,: said a gruff voice. "He stayed in his cabin and let 
> us do the vork." Krum had come to say goodbye to Hermione...'
> (GOF "The Beginning" p.628/29 UK edition)
> 
> I doubt whether this solves any problems, just throws up another tranche 
> of them. 
> :-(
>

Nathaniel:
The ship travelling submerged falls in line with Durmstrang's secretive nature. We get hints that all 3 schools keep a few secrets to themselves, but Durmstrang is so secretive that they don't let outsiders even know what country it's in. 

I agree that the Durmstrang ship is on the big side, but I don't agree that that necessarily means it has to be unseen. We have examples of muggles not seeing things they should be able to see. The Knight Bus squeezes into spaces it shouldn't be able to fit. Mail boxes, lamp posts, rubbish bins, and even trees leap out of the way.

Although, the Knight Bus could also support Geoff's original supposition. The Knight Bus jumps "a hundred miles at a time." (PA3) It seems that the Knight Bus needs to get to full speed, there's a loud BANG, and the bus makes its jump. That leads credence to the idea that the ship can transport itself magically somewhere, such as directly into the lake. As you quite rightly point out, some steering of the ship takes place. Maybe the ship picks up full speed and then teleports somewhere.

That still leaves open the question of whether the ship can teleport directly into the lake. We know you can't apparate onto Hogwarts grounds, but you can take a portkey. Harry takes a portkey both in and out of the Hogwarts grounds. (Out via the Triwizard Cup; into Dumbledore's office via a statue head.) We also see the rules of apparation temporarily suspended so students can learn apparation. So I can't definitely rule out that it teleports into the lake.

On the other hand, the Knight Bus does not jump onto the Hogwarts grounds. It makes its jump to Hogsmeade, near the Hog's Head, and then drives the remaining distance to the gates of Hogwarts where it lets everyone off. (OP24)

We really don't have enough evidence either way to say definitely how the Durmstrang Ship gets into the lake. But I'm still partial to my original theory of the ship "sailing" there from Durmstrang, underwater.




From thedossetts at gmail.com  Tue Sep 25 01:58:58 2012
From: thedossetts at gmail.com (rtbthw_mom)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 01:58:58 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3ipuk+uags@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k3r352+1kh6@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192220




>  
> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123@> wrote:
> > > > 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
> > > > apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of transportation was
> > > > not more widely used in the Potterverse?
> > > 


Snip several replies. . .


> Geoff:
> From the description of the ship's arrival, I get the feeling that it is a fairly 
> big ship - seemingly something like a galleon (although that may be 
> triggered by the film) but with a high mast, it would probably not be able 
> to travel submerged and unseen.
> 


Snip some of Geoff's post. . .


> This then raises the point of why does the ship travel submerged anyway -if 
> it hadn't used some magical means to appear in the Hogwarts loch? The 
> Beauxbatons coach was quite visible to the students on its approach and 
> appeared to have come all the way like that. Had it been Disillusioned against 
> Muggles until on final approach? Why did the Durmstrang ship not travel in 
> a similar way on the surface?
> 
> One other interesting snippet regarding this occurs, albeit well ahead of 
> where we are currently investigating:
> 


Pat:

 I agree with Geoff that the ship had to be fairly large, because the Durmstrang students and Karkaroff lived on board. Of course, they could have magically enlarged the inside of the ship just as we saw that Arthur Weasley and other MOM wizards enlarged the insides of cars (and we saw the tents enlarged in like manner at the Quidditch World Cup.) I have always been certain that the Beaubatons carriage had been magically enlarged inside so the French students could live there. As an aside, I often wondered if they also had their lessons on board ship (and the Beaubatons students had theirs in the carriage) since we never saw the foreign students having class with the Hogwarts students. 

As to how the ship travelled from Durmstrang to Hogwarts, I pictured them as having travelled underground through underground water reservoirs, and then, like a submarine, raising to surface level when they arrived at the lake by Hogwarts. Just offering up an alternative way that they may have traveled, since JKR did leave it to our imaginations!

BTW, has she added any additional information on this subject over at Pottermore? I signed up but haven't had time to spend over there, so I'm way behind.

Pat

  






From k12listmomma at comcast.net  Tue Sep 25 16:23:14 2012
From: k12listmomma at comcast.net (Shelley)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:23:14 -0600
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet
 of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3r352+1kh6@eGroups.com>
References: <k3r352+1kh6@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5061DA72.3050907@comcast.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192221

On 9/24/2012 7:58 PM, rtbthw_mom wrote:
> As to how the ship travelled from Durmstrang to Hogwarts, I pictured 
> them as having travelled underground through underground water 
> reservoirs, and then, like a submarine, raising to surface level when 
> they arrived at the lake by Hogwarts. Just offering up an alternative 
> way that they may have traveled, since JKR did leave it to our 
> imaginations!

I see the waterways connected by magic the same way that the MOM 
connected the fireplaces, only set up Internationally.

The fireplaces were never explained either, except that they were 
"magically connected" and that connections could be shut off by the 
powers-that-be when they wanted to. It's magic- the "how" is mostly 
assumed.

Shelley



From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 26 03:10:34 2012
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 03:10:34 -0000
Subject: ADMIN GOF Chapter Discussions
Message-ID: <k3trna+a8cq@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192223

Hi guys,

We still have the following chapters unclaimed - 19-26, 31-33, 35 and 37.

Please help :)

Thanks.

Alika elf.




From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com  Wed Sep 26 11:11:06 2012
From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:11:06 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <5061DA72.3050907@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <k3unsa+9cee@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192225

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Shelley <k12listmomma at ...> wrote:

> On 9/24/2012 7:58 PM, rtbthw_mom wrote:
> > As to how the ship travelled from Durmstrang to Hogwarts, I pictured 
> > them as having travelled underground through underground water 
> > reservoirs, and then, like a submarine, raising to surface level when 
> > they arrived at the lake by Hogwarts. Just offering up an alternative 
> > way that they may have traveled, since JKR did leave it to our 
> > imaginations!

Shelley:
> I see the waterways connected by magic the same way that the MOM 
> connected the fireplaces, only set up Internationally.
 
> The fireplaces were never explained either, except that they were 
> "magically connected" and that connections could be shut off by the 
> powers-that-be when they wanted to. It's magic- the "how" is mostly 
> assumed.

Geoff:
This throws up a lot of questions. I suspect, that if the truth be known,
JKR didn't put a lot of thought into this - it was just a gimmicky way of 
getting Durmstrang (and Beauxbatons with their coach) to Hogwarts and 
perhaps amuse the reader.

But, tossing a few thoughts into the arena: why did Durmstrang choose 
what appeared to be an ancient type of boat? Why keep one anyway -  
how often did a large group of students leave the school and need 
transport like this? Again. since the school is apparently in the colder 
part of Eastern Europe, how near to a decent stretch of water are they?

I can see an element of theatre in Beauxbatons' use of the coach. Madame 
Maxine is a larger than life character - and I don't mean just physically(!) 
who likes attention and by her clothes  and style expects a lavish life style.
I get the impression that she had a close and warm relationship with her 
flock.

Whether Karkaroff was as vain is perhaps open to question but when he 
arrived, the description of his clothes in comparison to the students might
suggest the same and Krum's somewhat disgruntled remark at the end of 
the book (pp. 628/29 UK edition) which I quoted a post or so ago suggests 
that he was not high in the popularity stakes among his students.

But perhaps this can only remain in the field of speculation.




From bboyminn at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 27 00:13:29 2012
From: bboyminn at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 00:13:29 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3ienq+u4pf@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k405n9+oihv@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192226



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoffbannister123 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
...
> 
> > 5. How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? 
> > Was this apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode
> > of transportation was not more widely used in the Potterverse?
> 
> Geoff:
> From canon:
> ...
> 
> OK, that's Apparition eliminated...
> 
> We do know that a number of people can Portkey together as the 
> group did from Stoatshead Hill in Chapter 6. But this begs the 
> question 'Can you Portkey something big like a ship?' Also, from 
> the description of a Portkey's operation in that chapter I get 
> the impression that this journey, like Apparition is very quick
> and you "come out of warp" at the point you choose which, 
> incidentally,  rather makes a mockery of the way the films have 
> handled the two transportation methods.
> 
> To be quite frank, I haven't thought about it in the past but I
> feel it has to be something other than these two we have mentioned.
> Maybe there are spells to transport objects plus users which are 
> not generally known... Maybe a Dark Arts spell? We do have 
> instances later, certainly in DH, of Voldemort and Snape flying 
> without broomsticks so there must be other methods which JKR 
> didn't trouble to document.
>

Steve:

I think it is safe to say, it was not Apparition. Though I will point out that Dumbledore could have granted an exception for the Durmstrangs. Though I still don't think it was Apparition. 

I think it was closer to a Portkey, but I don't think it was a Portkey. As has been suggested, I think it was a whole new form of magical transportation that we are not made aware of. 

Notice that they are in a Sailing Ship and that they arrive by water. Even more so, they pop up out of the water, indicating or implying that they arrive at that location UNDER Water. 

Much like the Floo Network uses fireplaces, I suspect there is also a Floo-id (fluid) Network that allow magical travel by above ground and underground waterways. 

Or perhaps the emerging and submerging were just an effect for show. Meaning, ignoring the grand entrance and exist, this is just some unique variation of a Portkey. 

Notice I say a variation of a Portkey rather than a Portkey. It is similar to a Portkey. 

Still, it is a very interesting question. 

Steve/bboyminn




From k12listmomma at comcast.net  Thu Sep 27 07:43:28 2012
From: k12listmomma at comcast.net (Shelley)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 01:43:28 -0600
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet
 of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3unsa+9cee@eGroups.com>
References: <k3unsa+9cee@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <506403A0.4070805@comcast.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192227

On 9/26/2012 5:11 AM, Geoff wrote:
> Shelley:
>> I see the waterways connected by magic the same way that the MOM
>> connected the fireplaces, only set up Internationally.
>   
>> The fireplaces were never explained either, except that they were
>> "magically connected" and that connections could be shut off by the
>> powers-that-be when they wanted to. It's magic- the "how" is mostly
>> assumed.
> Geoff:
> This throws up a lot of questions. I suspect, that if the truth be known,
> JKR didn't put a lot of thought into this - it was just a gimmicky way of
> getting Durmstrang (and Beauxbatons with their coach) to Hogwarts and
> perhaps amuse the reader.
>
> But, tossing a few thoughts into the arena: why did Durmstrang choose
> what appeared to be an ancient type of boat? Why keep one anyway -
> how often did a large group of students leave the school and need
> transport like this?
Shelley again:
To me, the carriage and the boat would be just like the tents that 
appeared at the Quidditch match: a lot of work and thought and magic 
would go into making these items, and even though they weren't used 
everyday, they were dead useful when you needed them. Maybe the boat 
looked ancient because IT WAS- I mean, if you have a perfectly useful 
magic item, you'd just keep using it, wouldn't you? Hand it down through 
the generations? Loan it out to others as needed? I could see family 
vacations on a boat like that, and it's so roomy that you could take 
several other families with you and no one would be in each other's 
hair. We assume that those items belonged to the SCHOOLS, but that was 
not necessarily so. They could have been owned by a wealthy family with 
permission for the schools to borrow to use on field trips (much like a 
school bus or tour bus would be rented in the US) for special events. 
Certainly the headmasters of the schools would know the prominent, 
wealthy families and who would own magical transportation devices to ask 
when they had a need. I could see a wealthy family living out of a boat 
like this if they wanted to travel all over and see the sights, and 
maybe even have a fireplace connected inside to the network of other 
fireplaces- with a ship like this you could see the world and yet still 
go to work every day if needed. Oh the possibilities!



From cresorchid at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 12:01:13 2012
From: cresorchid at gmail.com (Sandra Lynn)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:01:13 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet
 of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <506403A0.4070805@comcast.net>
References: <k3unsa+9cee@eGroups.com>
	<506403A0.4070805@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAPyU+0Njc7G=boO6NUOCE2RogBdSHGwFMp6QCc-x+-1bx9RrJw@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192228

Shelley again:
To me, the carriage and the boat would be just like the tents that
appeared at the Quidditch match: a lot of work and thought and magic
would go into making these items, and even though they weren't used
everyday, they were dead useful when you needed them. Maybe the boat
looked ancient because IT WAS- I mean, if you have a perfectly useful
magic item, you'd just keep using it, wouldn't you? Hand it down through
the generations? Loan it out to others as needed? I could see family
vacations on a boat like that, and it's so roomy that you could take
several other families with you and no one would be in each other's
hair. We assume that those items belonged to the SCHOOLS, but that was
not necessarily so. They could have been owned by a wealthy family with
permission for the schools to borrow to use on field trips (much like a
school bus or tour bus would be rented in the US) for special events.
Certainly the headmasters of the schools would know the prominent,
wealthy families and who would own magical transportation devices to ask
when they had a need. I could see a wealthy family living out of a boat
like this if they wanted to travel all over and see the sights, and
maybe even have a fireplace connected inside to the network of other
fireplaces- with a ship like this you could see the world and yet still
go to work every day if needed. Oh the possibilities!


Crescent:
I have to say that this makes perfect sense to me. I assumed that it used
magical underground waterways or just magically appeared from one body of
water into another. And the idea that it could have been from a wealthy
family makes perfect sense. Either that or it was school property. Maybe it
was like the Hogwarts Express for Durmstrang students and was used to bring
them to and from school. That would help to keep the location secret as
well.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From puduhepa98 at aol.com  Fri Sep 28 15:08:04 2012
From: puduhepa98 at aol.com (nikkalmati)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:08:04 -0000
Subject: ADMIN GOF Chapter Discussions
In-Reply-To: <k3trna+a8cq@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k44egk+i2e7@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192229



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> 
> We still have the following chapters unclaimed - 19-26, 31-33, 35 and 37.
> 
> Please help :)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Alika elf.
>
ok. Just assign me one you need.  Nikkalmati




From willsonkmom at msn.com  Fri Sep 28 23:55:52 2012
From: willsonkmom at msn.com (willsonteam)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 23:55:52 -0000
Subject: Strange Stories on Muggle News
Message-ID: <k45de8+5fmt@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192230

I heard a news report yesterday morning as I was going into work--several people in our area had been attacked by owls. And I thought to myself, "Owls acting strangely--sounds like the type of thing that would be on Muggle news if there was something afoot in the Wizarding World."

 An obnoxious ad came on and I switched channels--landing in the middle of an interview with JKR about her new book--coming out the same day.  If ever there was proof that the Wizarding World is real...I think this just may be it. 

I'm 210 on the list for the new book in a system that has 22 books. I think I'll have to break the piggy bank and buy it myself.
Kathy (Potioncat)





From puduhepa98 at aol.com  Sat Sep 29 02:17:33 2012
From: puduhepa98 at aol.com (nikkalmati)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 02:17:33 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k3drm7+s73h@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k45lnt+8ud1@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192231


Questions:
>1. To jump on the question from the previous chapter about >Dumbledore wanting
>Fake!Moody to demonstrate Unforgivables in all their glory ? in this >one Moody
>claims Dumbledore wanted him to put the Imperio on the students. I >believed him
>without any hesitation, but you all know how I feel about >Dumbledore, so could
>somebody please convince me that this was Fake!Moody's own desire and
>Dumbledore had nothing to do with it?

Nikkalmati

I believe DD must have approved it because he would be sure to hear about it.  That means he also had heard about the other curses and probably approved.  I think he did want the students (especially the Trio) to be aware of all the Unforgivables.  The fact that Harry could resist the Imperio would delight him.  REAL Moody would probably approve too and Fake Moody would do what DD wanted.  

Nikkalmati

2.>. My attitude about the kids' potential love interests was always >along the
>lines of "I really really do not give a flying fig whom they end up >with, as
>long
>as the Trio survives". I was too busy imagining Sirius and Snape >ending up
>together ;) But at the same time I also thought that Ron and >Hermione were
>bound to end up together, and their banter in this chapter was a classic example
>why, to me anyway. I guess my question is not why anybody thought >differently, I
>am sure people have many reasons, but more along the lines what else >did their
>banter signify for you, if not the comedical chemistry of two >sidekicks of the
>main character which heavily foreshadows a love story for them?

Nikkalmati

Well, I really didn't think they were right for each other.  They seemed more like quarreling brother and sister to me and this was compatable with the way Molly treted Hermione like a member of the family (mostly), as did Fred and George.  I thought it showed how little Hermione cared about "boys".  She was interisted in other things, at least at this stage in life.

Nikkalmati

3.> According to narrator Snape "hinted" that he might be poisoning >one of the
>kids before Christmas, even I Snape "fan" I am found this assumption very funny
>on this reread. What about you?


Nikkalmati

JKR has a real sense of humor - a laugh on every page.

Nikkalmati


4.> What did you think of Hagrid's attempt to control Malfoy's >behavior during
>his lesson?

Nikkalmati

Well, he was taking advantage of what he knew to embarass Malfoy.  He was taking Malfoy down a peg and I don't blame him after Malfoy's behavior the previous year.  But, Hagrid doesn't have the gumption or the meanness to do something like that to Malfoy himself.Hagrid is just too nice for his own good.

Nikkalmati

5.> How do you think the Durmstrang ship arrived in the lake? Was this
>apparition? Something else? Why do you think this mode of >transportation was
>not more widely used in the Potterverse?

Nikkalmati

I thought aty the time it had sailed over the sea (perhaps at magical speed and disillusioned) from the North Sea.  It then had entered the loch by some hidden underground connection with the sea.  After all, we had just seen the horses and coach fly through the air from France. I suppose if you had a magical ship and needed to go somewhere by sea . . . 

Nikkalmati


>6. Karkaroff's smile "did not extend to his eyes, which remain cold >and shrewd"
>when he greeted Dumbledore. Usually when a new character is >introduced like that
>? his smile did not reach his eyes ? it often raises my suspicions >about the
>character's intentions. I of course do not remember what was my >first reaction
>to meeting Karkaroff, but if you do, was this a warning for you or >not? Where
>there other hints you felt laid suspicion on Karkaroff?

Nikkalmati

Yes, I thought immediately he was trouble.  I didn't give enough weight to the weak chin, however.  He turned out to be a coward. I have always wondered - How did Igor get to be head of Durmstrang?  
He went to Hogwarts and was a DE in the first war.  He spent time in Azkaban. Barty knows him too.  How did he get permission to return?  His comment about "dear old Hogwarts" implies he has not ever been back. If he is English why is he called Igor?  Was his family from whatever country Durmstrang is in?

Nikkalmati

  
  
>7. In this chapter we hear about increased amount of work kids have >to do on
>multiple subjects, but we do not see those lessons in details except >Moody's
>DADA lesson. Did you find interesting whatever you did hear abou >those lessons?
>Did you wish for more details? What other magic did you enjoy seeing >the kids
>study? What magic do you wish we had seen more of them studying?

Nikkalmati

I always thought the lessons were very interesting.  I wanted to know more in particular about Arithmancy.  Is it used for divination?  Why did Hermione like it?  I would also like to have seen more of the castle.  We always seem to be in the same rooms.

Nikkalmati


>Thank you Alla and Zara.   

> 
> 
> 
>>




From natti_shafer at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 29 17:06:19 2012
From: natti_shafer at yahoo.com (Nathaniel)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:06:19 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Chapter Fifteen, Goblet of Fire: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang
In-Reply-To: <k45lnt+8ud1@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <k479qb+img8@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192232


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "nikkalmati" <puduhepa98 at ...> wrote:

> >6. Karkaroff's smile "did not extend to his eyes, which remain cold >and shrewd"
> >when he greeted Dumbledore. Usually when a new character is >introduced like that
> >? his smile did not reach his eyes ? it often raises my suspicions >about the
> >character's intentions. I of course do not remember what was my >first reaction
> >to meeting Karkaroff, but if you do, was this a warning for you or >not? Where
> >there other hints you felt laid suspicion on Karkaroff?
> 
> Nikkalmati
> 
> Yes, I thought immediately he was trouble.  I didn't give enough weight to the weak chin, however.  He turned out to be a coward. I have always wondered - How did Igor get to be head of Durmstrang?  
> He went to Hogwarts and was a DE in the first war.  He spent time in Azkaban. Barty knows him too.  How did he get permission to return?  His comment about "dear old Hogwarts" implies he has not ever been back. If he is English why is he called Igor?  Was his family from whatever country Durmstrang is in?

Nathaniel:
Where are you getting that Karkaroff went to Hogwarts? I don't remember that. The "Dear old Hogwarts" comment is a sign that Karkaroff had been there before. Maybe at a previous Tri-wizard tournament or maybe in some other capacity. 

Becoming headmaster of Durmstrang is a sign that Durmstrang doesn't mind a bit of the Dark Arts. It may even be encouraged.




From cresorchid at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 12:45:33 2012
From: cresorchid at gmail.com (Sandra Lynn)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 07:45:33 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Strange Stories on Muggle News
In-Reply-To: <k45de8+5fmt@eGroups.com>
References: <k45de8+5fmt@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAPyU+0OT5K5sMYOPeqY4yzOCrp3TOVWtWmdECNvBk2+p3ke=-Q@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192234


On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 6:55 PM, willsonteam <willsonkmom at msn.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I heard a news report yesterday morning as I was going into work--several
> people in our area had been attacked by owls. And I thought to myself,
> "Owls acting strangely--sounds like the type of thing that would be on
> Muggle news if there was something afoot in the Wizarding World."
>
> An obnoxious ad came on and I switched channels--landing in the middle of
> an interview with JKR about her new book--coming out the same day. If ever
> there was proof that the Wizarding World is real...I think this just may be
> it.
>
> I'm 210 on the list for the new book in a system that has 22 books. I
> think I'll have to break the piggy bank and buy it myself.


Crescent:
I wish someone would. I don't know whether to buy it or not. We all know
and love HP, but who knows what her "writing geared to adults" will be
like.

And that is really odd about the owls.

ELFY NOTE:

If you wish to discuss JKR's new book, please do so at Off topic chatter list :-)  Thanks guys.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]