From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  8 12:58:52 2013
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 12:58:52 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task
In-Reply-To: <kihtkj+nuaj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <kjueuc+ugav@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192347



.> > 2. When I was rereading this chapter I was reminded about how Fleur looked so
> > much less confident and prepared than other Champions. Granted I have not reread
> > the other Tasks for a while, but I seem to remember that she was always the
> > least competent and prepared competitor. Do you think it was because she was a
> > young woman or not?
> 
> Pippin:
> May I suggest that  the collective opinion   that she was the least competent and prepared is influenced by her being a young woman?
> 
>  JKR has fun with the unconscious assumption that  outstanding athletes are male. You have to read the World Cup match closely and match up the pronouns to realize that at least two of the champion Irish chasers are female. And yet some readers  complained fiercely online that there were no women players at the World Cup match. 


Alla:

Very true about this.


Pippin:
<SNIP> 
>  I disagree that Fleur was consistently the least competent or prepared. While JKR doesn't tell us either Fleur or Cedric's score for the task, Fleur got her egg in five minutes and without any injuries that we know of (her skirt caught fire, but she put it out.) Cedric took ten minutes and was severely burned. 


Alla:

I will grant you this point.

Pippin: 
> Fleur bested male competitors from her own school to be champion in the first place. 


Alla:

Remind me, I truly do not remember, where does it say that their school has male students? Regardless though, my point was that she seemed the weakest and less prepared out of all champions, not anybody else.


Pippin:
> She undoubtedly placed last in the second task, but we don't know why she had so much trouble with the Grindylows -- it could have been some fault of hers, or it could have been external circumstances. Once rescued, she had to be held back by force from returning to the water to rescue her sister. The narrator reports she was fighting "tooth and nail" so she must have lost her wand -- if the grindylows managed to grab it away from her, she would have been helpless against so many -- and they were already riled up by Harry's passage. 

Alla:

Right, we do not know why she had trouble and JKR does not tell, but she makes sure to tell us that she placed last and to me that's what she wanted to stress as important.


Pippin:
> In the third task she was ambushed by Fake!Moody first thing -- so he must have thought she had a chance of making it to the Cup before any of the others, or he wouldn't have bothered. You could make a case that of the three "official" contestants,  Cedric was actually the weakest contender -- he was the one that Fake!Moody left till last, and, alas, the  one that didn't survive. 

Alla:

Or he may have thought that she would be the easiest to get rid of and that is why he knocked her out first - as a nuisance to deal with and forget about. Still am not convinced that anybody else was shown as weak as her by the totality of circumstances.






From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com  Mon Apr  8 19:35:59 2013
From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:35:59 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task
In-Reply-To: <kjueuc+ugav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <kjv66v+e14r@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192348

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:

Pippin: 
> > Fleur bested male competitors from her own school to be champion in the first place. 
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Remind me, I truly do not remember, where does it say that their school has male students? Regardless though, my point was that she seemed the weakest and less prepared out of all champions, not anybody else.

Geoff:
Canon says it:
'Harry, whose attention had been focused completely on Madame Maxine, noticed that around a dozen boys and girls - all, by the look of them in there late teens -had emerged from the carriage and were now standing behind Madame Maxine.'
(GOF "Beauxbatons and Durmstrang" p.215 UK edition)




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  9 00:28:45 2013
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 00:28:45 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task
In-Reply-To: <kjv66v+e14r@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <kjvnbt+4qbi@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192349


> Pippin: 
> > > Fleur bested male competitors from her own school to be champion in the first place. 
> > 
> > 
> > Alla:
> > 
> > Remind me, I truly do not remember, where does it say that their school has male students? Regardless though, my point was that she seemed the weakest and less prepared out of all champions, not anybody else.
> 
> Geoff:
> Canon says it:
> 'Harry, whose attention had been focused completely on Madame Maxine, noticed that around a dozen boys and girls - all, by the look of them in there late teens -had emerged from the carriage and were now standing behind Madame Maxine.'
> (GOF "Beauxbatons and Durmstrang" p.215 UK edition)
>


Alla:

Thanks Geoff, case of movie contamination, I have it :)




From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 11 03:39:20 2013
From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 03:39:20 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty one, Goblet of Fire: The House -elf liberation front
Message-ID: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192350

Note, this chapter was done by luirhys, not by me, for some reason Yahoo would not let me change the heading to her ID.

Alika.


This message is a Special Notice for all members of
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@yahoogroups.com

Chapter 21- The House-elf Liberation front
After successfully completing the first task, the trio is in high spirits, with
Ron, ever doubtful before; proclaiming that he thinks Harry could win the
tournament.
Upon hearing about the tournament, and reading about the first task, did you
really think that Harry would win the tournament? Knowing what you know now, did
you have any inkling about how the third task would end?
On another note, we all know Karkaroff couldn't be the one who placed Harry's
name in the goblet, so who were your initial suspects? Did you ever suspect
!fake Moody?
At Harry's victory party, they open up the golden egg and it wails like a
banshee. What was your initial guesses how it could've been a clue to the next
task?

Rita Skeeter is again seen on the grounds of Hogwarts, Harry says she isn't
allowed, but yet nobody throws her out. We learn at the end that she is able to
pop in and out because of her ability as an animagus, does this mean the
barriers of Hogwarts can be duped simply by changing into an animal? Can an
animagus deatheater get inside Hogwarts?
Professor Trelawney claims she has seen death numerous times while gazing at her
crystal orb, did you think she really did see anything? I confess, I always
thought she was referring to Harry's death, but we all know what happened at the
end of the book. Not to mention that she was the one who predicted The Prophecy.

Hermione discovers Dobby and Winky at the kitchens, and they find out that
Dumbledore gave them jobs at Hogwarts. Being more exposed to house-elf culture,
do you think it is a worthy cause to fight for their rights? Do you really think
they should be freed, seeing what effect it had on Winky?
Winky says "Bagman is a bad wizard", I can't remember, but was it ever revealed
why she said so? I remember he was seen in the company of suspected deatheaters,
but as far as I know, he isn't one. Could it possibly be because of his penchant
for gambling?
-luirhys

NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH
Chapter Discussions" at
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If you would like to volunteer to lead a chapter discussion, please drop a note
to HPforGrownups-owner @yahoogroups.com (minus that extra space).






From daveh47 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 06:31:18 2013
From: daveh47 at gmail.com (Dave Hardenbrook)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:31:18 -0700
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Discussion: Twenty one, Goblet of Fire:
 The House -elf liberation front
In-Reply-To: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com>
References: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <516658B6.8050506@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192351

luirhys:
> On another note, we all know Karkaroff couldn't be the one who placed 
> Harry's
> name in the goblet, so who were your initial suspects? Did you ever 
> suspect
> !fake Moody?

Dave:
No, I would have, like Harry, said, "It CAN'T be him!"  I really had 
absolutely no idea, though I was certain that both Karkaroff and Bagman 
were red herrings.

luirhys:
> Rita Skeeter is again seen on the grounds of Hogwarts, Harry says she 
> isn't
> allowed, but yet nobody throws her out. We learn at the end that she 
> is able to
> pop in and out because of her ability as an animagus, does this mean the
> barriers of Hogwarts can be duped simply by changing into an animal? 
> Can an
> animagus deatheater get inside Hogwarts?

Dave:
In theory, yes, but I imagine it would have to be a very small animal to 
evade detection, and it's not like a Death Eater would get to choose his 
animal form.

> Professor Trelawney claims she has seen death numerous times while 
> gazing at her
> crystal orb, did you think she really did see anything? I confess, I 
> always
> thought she was referring to Harry's death, but we all know what 
> happened at the
> end of the book. Not to mention that she was the one who predicted The 
> Prophecy.

Dave:
Things like "The Lightning-Struck Tower" make me think she is a true 
seer, but doesn't know how to interpret her own insights.

luirhys:
> Hermione discovers Dobby and Winky at the kitchens, and they find out that
> Dumbledore gave them jobs at Hogwarts. Being more exposed to house-elf 
> culture,
> do you think it is a worthy cause to fight for their rights? Do you 
> really think
> they should be freed, seeing what effect it had on Winky?

Dave:
If nothing else, House-Elves should have the right to leave if they have 
oppressive or abusive masters like the Malfoys.

luirhys:
> Winky says "Bagman is a bad wizard", I can't remember, but was it ever 
> revealed
> why she said so? I remember he was seen in the company of suspected 
> deatheaters,
> but as far as I know, he isn't one. Could it possibly be because of 
> his penchant
> for gambling?

Dave:
As with Kreacher, I think Winky often just echoes what she hears her 
master say, and I don't think Crouch was ever persuaded that Bagman was 
only an innocent bystander.

Dave





From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Apr 11 15:26:39 2013
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:26:39 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty one, Goblet of Fire: The House -elf liberation front
In-Reply-To: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <kk6knf+o3ou@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192352


> 
> Chapter 21- The House-elf Liberation front
> After successfully completing the first task, the trio is in high spirits, with
> Ron, ever doubtful before; proclaiming that he thinks Harry could win the
> tournament.
> Upon hearing about the tournament, and reading about the first task, did you
> really think that Harry would win the tournament? Knowing what you know now, did
> you have any inkling about how the third task would end?

Pippin:
I thought Harry might win the tournament, I certainly had no idea how it would end.


> On another note, we all know Karkaroff couldn't be the one who placed Harry's
> name in the goblet, so who were your initial suspects? Did you ever suspect
> !fake Moody?

Pippin:
Fake!Moody took me completely by surprise; I was just as shocked when he revealed himself as Harry was. I think I did notice that there was something wrong with Crouch, and wondered if he could be involved some how. But what motive could he have had? 

> At Harry's victory party, they open up the golden egg and it wails like a
> banshee. What was your initial guesses how it could've been a clue to the next
> task?

Pippin:
I think I just let myself be swept along by the story at this point. 
> 
> Rita Skeeter is again seen on the grounds of Hogwarts, Harry says she isn't
> allowed, but yet nobody throws her out. We learn at the end that she is able to
> pop in and out because of her ability as an animagus, does this mean the
> barriers of Hogwarts can be duped simply by changing into an animal? Can an
> animagus deatheater get inside Hogwarts?

Pippin:
LOL! Alas, poor Scabbers, how soon we forget! Can, and did. 


> Professor Trelawney claims she has seen death numerous times while gazing at her
> crystal orb, did you think she really did see anything? I confess, I always
> thought she was referring to Harry's death, but we all know what happened at the
> end of the book. Not to mention that she was the one who predicted The Prophecy.

Pippin:
As Trelawney doubtless knows, you don't need a crystal ball to foresee the death of any living creature. All her predictions of death will come true sooner or later -- you'll notice she never puts any time limit on them. 

> 
> Hermione discovers Dobby and Winky at the kitchens, and they find out that
> Dumbledore gave them jobs at Hogwarts. Being more exposed to house-elf culture,
> do you think it is a worthy cause to fight for their rights? Do you really think
> they should be freed, seeing what effect it had on Winky?

Pippin:
As in the real world, an anti-slavery activist might conclude that it is better to tackle the social and economic conditions that foster slavery. 


> Winky says "Bagman is a bad wizard", I can't remember, but was it ever revealed
> why she said so? I remember he was seen in the company of suspected deatheaters,
> but as far as I know, he isn't one. Could it possibly be because of his penchant
> for gambling?


Pippin:
Bagman is not only gambling, he paid off the Twins with vanishing Leprechaun gold,  is consorting with some shady goblins, and is betting on a contest he is helping to supervise. I think Winky knows all  this, and doesn't approve. 

Pippin






From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Apr 11 16:26:38 2013
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:26:38 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task
In-Reply-To: <kjueuc+ugav@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <kk6o7u+p1qt@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192353


> Alla:
> 
> Remind me, I truly do not remember, where does it say that their school has male students? Regardless though, my point was that she seemed the weakest and less prepared out of all champions, not anybody else.
> 
<snip>. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Right, we do not know why she had trouble and JKR does not tell, but she makes sure to tell us that she placed last and to me that's what she wanted to stress as important.

Pippin:
Is it important because it tells us something about Fleur's character, or is it important because it tells us something about the way that we evaluate men vs women?

Granted, JKR wants us to notice how poorly Fleur performed in the second task.  But suppose that Cedric and Fleur's performances are reversed, so that it's Cedric who does well against the dragon but places last in this task because of the grindylows. Meanwhile Fleur gets severely burned and has the slowest time in the first task, but frees her hostage handily, though not as swiftly as Harry, in the second. No doubt, Fleur comes off a bit better that way. But would we be so quick to say that Cedric must have failed because he was weak and unprepared? 

Geoff has pointed out the male Beaux Batons students. I asked a similar question about the female Durmstrang students a while back. They are so peripheral to Harry's adventures that, like Fleur's fighting skills (which Harry attests to later), or the moderate Slytherins,  or women in positions of highest authority, or the female Irish chasers,  they might as well not exist. In the movie, pared down to Harry's adventures, they generally don't. But they *do* exist in the books, and our failure to notice them, or give them the credit they deserve, has, I think, more to do with JKR's desire to show her readers how easy it is to overlook what clashes with our preconceived ideas, rather  than with her own ideas of what is important. She had to deliberately  create those things, after all.  


I think that JKR tried to depict a world where male privilege was largely obsolete and in that world women would be free to compete against men without feeling that they'd let down their entire sex if they didn't win. Compare that to Harry, who's told by Hagrid that if he wins it will be a setback for those who want to keep the non-purebloods down. 

There might be a similar dynamic in the hope that  JKR would introduce a witch with mad fighting skills and a disappointment  in Fleur for that reason, although Harry points out somewhere (DH?) that Fleur wouldn't have been a contestant all if she wasn't capable. Fan fiction, OTOH,  is full of witches in thigh boots, mowing down Death Eaters like hay.  Though  canon does have a heroine finish off a Death Eater eventually, it's with a very strong hint that if that's the sort of thing we'd like to see more of, we should go rent a copy of Aliens. JKR's Potterverse does not need more kickass witches, or wizards for that matter. That's not what makes a wizard great, remember?  it needs, well, you know, friendship and bravery. Fleur is clearly not weak or unprepared in those. 

As for the thought of Molly dueling in thigh boots -- well, clearly, some witches should not wear them. <grin>


Pippin





From boyle.ciaran at gmail.com  Thu Apr 11 09:43:41 2013
From: boyle.ciaran at gmail.com (ciaran_naraic)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:43:41 -0000
Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty one, Goblet of Fire: The House -elf liberation front
In-Reply-To: <516658B6.8050506@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <kk60kd+85ad@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192354


> luirhys:
> > On another note, we all know Karkaroff couldn't be the one who placed
> > Harry's
> > name in the goblet, so who were your initial suspects? Did you ever
> > suspect
> > !fake Moody?
>
> Dave:
> No, I would have, like Harry, said, "It CAN'T be him!"  I really had
> absolutely no idea, though I was certain that both Karkaroff and Bagman
> were red herrings.
>

I knew that there was something weird with Moody. The unforgivable earlier in the book and his general demeanour had me convinced that Moody was going to have a Psychotic break. He was massively paranoid and showed other symptoms. The psychotic break would happen at the worst possible moment and create chaos.

As to the real infiltrator to be honest I was thinking Pettigrew using his Animagus abilities.

> luirhys:
> > Rita Skeeter is again seen on the grounds of Hogwarts, Harry says she
> > isn't
> > allowed, but yet nobody throws her out. We learn at the end that she
> > is able to
> > pop in and out because of her ability as an animagus, does this mean the
> > barriers of Hogwarts can be duped simply by changing into an animal?
> > Can an
> > animagus deatheater get inside Hogwarts?
>
> Dave:
> In theory, yes, but I imagine it would have to be a very small animal to
> evade detection, and it's not like a Death Eater would get to choose his
> animal form.
>

Sirius managed to get into the grounds for a year and was spotted by Harry in the forbidden forest (talking to crookshanks). No reason a death eater couldn't do the same. Sneak into the forest in animal form and storm the castle under the cover of darkness much like Sirius on two occasions.

> Dave:
> If nothing else, House-Elves should have the right to leave if they have
> oppressive or abusive masters like the Malfoys.
>

Have to agree with that, their culture seems to have a need to serve, perhaps they have a symbiotic relationship with wizards and that wizards emit some form of magical energy which House Elves use. Whatever it is Elves need to serve but they should protections.

> luirhys:
> > Winky says "Bagman is a bad wizard", I can't remember, but was it ever
> > revealed
> > why she said so? I remember he was seen in the company of suspected
> > deatheaters,
> > but as far as I know, he isn't one. Could it possibly be because of
> > his penchant
> > for gambling?
>
> Dave:
> As with Kreacher, I think Winky often just echoes what she hears her
> master say, and I don't think Crouch was ever persuaded that Bagman was
> only an innocent bystander.
>

A mix of a couple of things. First he gave information to death eaters during the first war. The fact that the death eater was a highly placed ministry official (Rookwood) made no difference to Crouch. As far as Crouch was concerned Bagman was a informer.

The second thing was that Crouch seemed to have an animosity with Bagman at his trial, did Crouch not say 'Merlin help the ministry if you join our ranks'.

Bagman's gambling habit eventually sent him on the run when he was unable to pay. Could Bagman have also done a runner on magical Casinos abroad causing international incidents that Crouch had to clear up.

Finally Bagman didn't seem like the most competent department head. Crouch complaining about departmental issues at home could be enough for Winky to pick up and given her fanatical level of loyalty that might be enough to make Bagman a 'bad wizard'.

ciaran_naraic



From lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 12 00:11:57 2013
From: lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com (lui)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:11:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter Discussion: Twenty one, Goblet of Fire: The House -elf liberation front
In-Reply-To: <kk6knf+o3ou@eGroups.com>
References: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com> <kk6knf+o3ou@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <1365725517.61433.YahooMailNeo@web161006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192355



> Rita Skeeter is again seen on the grounds of Hogwarts, Harry says she isn't
> allowed, but yet nobody throws her out. We learn at the end that she is able to
> pop in and out because of her ability as an animagus, does this mean the
> barriers of Hogwarts can be duped simply by changing into an animal? Can an
> animagus deatheater get inside Hogwarts?

Pippin:
LOL! Alas, poor Scabbers, how soon we forget! Can, and did. 

luirhys:
totally forgot about scabbers!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bart at moosewise.com  Fri Apr 12 03:05:16 2013
From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 23:05:16 -0400
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Discussion: Twenty one, Goblet of Fire:
 The House -elf liberation front
In-Reply-To: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com>
References: <kk5b98+4fnj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <516779EC.9080009@moosewise.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192356

On 4/10/2013 11:39 PM, dumbledore11214 wrote:
> Note, this chapter was done by luirhys, not by me, for some reason Yahoo would not let me change the heading to her ID.

Bart:
     New feature. Not sure why they took away the capability.

     Bart



From omegafold at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 21 23:08:53 2013
From: omegafold at yahoo.com (omegafold)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 23:08:53 -0000
Subject: A functional cloak of invisibility ? what?
Message-ID: <kl1ri5+fgd4@eGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192357

Okay someone asked me about this a while back so here's the latest from the desk of the greatest zero point physicist ever to make such information public;
I will start by pointing out 2 facts of the past;

1; About 70 years ago there was a fellow named Nikola Tesla who was once commissioned by the Navy to help build submarine battery systems, so that subs would run off electric power, intermittently ofcourse.
Well in the throwing of the first switch for the first time, a crescent wrench was left laying on top the battery that secured the connection.
In a split second after the wrench was gone. It could not be seen at all. Once the power was shut off, suddenly it re-appeared. Well the great John Hutchison eventually got word of this trick and with much less power than used there, he was able to make metal turn to liquid state, and cause plastic cups to fly up in the air. All of this technology was, as I found over time, related to a zero point energy field. You should also know that Tesla's files taken by the FBI at time of his death led to the Philadelphia Experiment just months later, which made that ship disappear. An elaborate coverup followed, but we all know it happened.

2; A simple fellow who worked all his life on cataloging bugs, mainly bees in Russia/ former U.S.S.R. was in 1999, studying wings of a stingless wasp. It was black with 2 gray stripes around it's belly. The colonies lived in clay banks near a lake. He noticed the wing had repulsive forces, repelling gravity in certain conditions. It would not be noticed except in the presence of metal, or when many wings are joined together.
So this guy, Viktor Grebennikov went on to build a flying platform that would fold up into a small briefcase. You can find photos on the net about his work. An american studied the wings under electron microscope, and I found more; but long story short; the flying platform would lift over 200 pounds but as it did , it formed an ionosphere around the thing and him. It was both protective against dust, debris, birds, and such- and would allow him to reach speeds of 900 miles per hour. Yes it sounds impossible. I was very skeptical at first, but the secret hides in how molecules connect in the structure of the chitin material that makes those wings. It's a trick of magnetic current as once proposed by Edward Leedskalnin.
Well, from certain angles, not all, viewers on the ground would not be able to see Grebennikov ! He would just plain vanish! This sounds like folklore, but a true story from 1999.
I have no idea who has his platform now.

I can only tell you that I work in this field of research and am right on the doorstep of some even more amazing discoveries. I must remind you that full invisibility from all directions is not possible except through full dematerialization, which temporarily shrinks you down to a few times smaller as you move slower in time since you are less effected by it in a smaller space.

I'm sure I could find ways to hide this technology in a broomstick, sure, but as far as the bugs go, it seems as if chemtrails are making them extinct. I can't say if those bees are around any longer. A fellow found a beetle with a similar effect of it's wings though last year.

omegafold



From MadameSSnape at aol.com  Mon Apr 22 14:06:46 2013
From: MadameSSnape at aol.com (MadameSSnape at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:06:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] A functional cloak of invisibility ? what?
Message-ID: <b9546.9bd9350.3ea69df6@aol.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192358

Only problem with invisibility is, as was pointed out decades ago in a MAN  
FROM UNCLE novel about an invisible dirigible, if you're invisible you're 
also  blind, because light rays passing through your body also pass through 
your  eyeballs.  If your eyeballs don't catch light, you can't see.  And you  
tend to bump into things, which rather defeats the purpose of being 
invisible in  the first place, n'est ce pas?
 
Sherrie 
RIP Dawn House Baker
1967-2013
my baby sister
 
 
In a message dated 4/22/2013 4:56:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
omegafold at yahoo.com writes:

 
 
 
Okay someone asked me about this a while back so here's the latest from the 
 desk of the greatest zero point physicist ever to make such information  
public;
I will start by pointing out 2 facts of the past;

1; About  70 years ago there was a fellow named Nikola Tesla who was once 
commissioned  by the Navy to help build submarine battery systems, so that 
subs would run  off electric power, intermittently ofcourse.
Well in the throwing of the  first switch for the first time, a crescent 
wrench was left laying on top the  battery that secured the connection.
In a split second after the wrench was  gone. It could not be seen at all. 
Once the power was shut off, suddenly it  re-appeared. Well the great John 
Hutchison eventually got word of this trick  and with much less power than 
used there, he was able to make metal turn to  liquid state, and cause plastic 
cups to fly up in the air. All of this  technology was, as I found over 
time, related to a zero point energy field.  You should also know that Tesla's 
files taken by the FBI at time of his death  led to the Philadelphia 
Experiment just months later, which made that ship  disappear. An elaborate coverup 
followed, but we all know it  happened.

2; A simple fellow who worked all his life on cataloging  bugs, mainly bees 
in Russia/ former U.S.S.R. was in 1999, studying wings of a  stingless 
wasp. It was black with 2 gray stripes around it's belly. The  colonies lived in 
clay banks near a lake. He noticed the wing had repulsive  forces, 
repelling gravity in certain conditions. It would not be noticed  except in the 
presence of metal, or when many wings are joined together.
So  this guy, Viktor Grebennikov went on to build a flying platform that 
would  fold up into a small briefcase. You can find photos on the net about 
his work.  An american studied the wings under electron microscope, and I 
found more; but  long story short; the flying platform would lift over 200 
pounds but as it did  , it formed an ionosphere around the thing and him. It was 
both protective  against dust, debris, birds, and such- and would allow him 
to reach speeds of  900 miles per hour. Yes it sounds impossible. I was very 
skeptical at first,  but the secret hides in how molecules connect in the 
structure of the chitin  material that makes those wings. It's a trick of 
magnetic current as once  proposed by Edward Leedskalnin.
Well, from certain angles, not all, viewers  on the ground would not be 
able to see Grebennikov ! He would just plain  vanish! This sounds like 
folklore, but a true story from 1999. 
I have no  idea who has his platform now.

I can only tell you that I work in this  field of research and am right on 
the doorstep of some even more amazing  discoveries. I must remind you that 
full invisibility from all directions is  not possible except through full 
dematerialization, which temporarily shrinks  you down to a few times smaller 
as you move slower in time since you are less  effected by it in a smaller 
space. 

I'm sure I could find ways to hide  this technology in a broomstick, sure, 
but as far as the bugs go, it seems as  if chemtrails are making them 
extinct. I can't say if those bees are around  any longer. A fellow found a beetle 
with a similar effect of it's wings though  last year.

omegafold





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bart at moosewise.com  Mon Apr 22 14:36:41 2013
From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:36:41 -0400
Subject: [HPforGrownups] A functional cloak of invisibility ? what?
In-Reply-To: <b9546.9bd9350.3ea69df6@aol.com>
References: <b9546.9bd9350.3ea69df6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <51754AF9.3050501@moosewise.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192359

On 4/22/2013 10:06 AM, MadameSSnape at aol.com wrote:
> Only problem with invisibility is, as was pointed out decades ago in a MAN
> FROM UNCLE novel about an invisible dirigible, if you're invisible you're
> also  blind, because light rays passing through your body also pass through
> your  eyeballs.  If your eyeballs don't catch light, you can't see.  And you
> tend to bump into things, which rather defeats the purpose of being
> invisible in  the first place, n'est ce pas?

Bart:
Functional invisibility can be done in numerous ways. There is, for 
example, a chameleon effect, where the front of the invisibility 
"shield" projects what would be seen if there was nothing there; it can 
still let light through. And of course, since we are talking magic, 
there is also a "glamour"; the object being hidden is perceived as 
something that belongs there, and is therefore ignored.

There is an old joke which illustrates this:

At a construction site, there was a security guard. Every day, at 
quitting time, a worker came out with a wheelbarrow filled with dirt. 
The guard was certain that the worker was concealing something that he 
stole in the dirt, so every day, the guard would examine the dirt, and 
would find nothing else. Several years after the job had been completed, 
the guard came across the worker in a bar. He approached the worker.

"I know you were stealing something in that job!" said the guard. "The 
statute of limitations is up, so you can't be arrested. So can you 
please tell me what it was you were stealing?"

The worker smiled, and replied, "Wheelbarrows."

     Bart




From kckriger at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 23 07:03:52 2013
From: kckriger at yahoo.com (ken krieger)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A functional cloak of invisibility ? what?
In-Reply-To: <51754AF9.3050501@moosewise.com>
References: <b9546.9bd9350.3ea69df6@aol.com> <51754AF9.3050501@moosewise.com>
Message-ID: <1366700632.66800.YahooMailNeo@web161204.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192360

MadameSSnape at aol.com wrote:
> Only problem with invisibility is, as was pointed out decades
> ago in a MAN FROM UNCLE novel about an invisible dirigible, if
> you're invisible you're also? blind, because light rays passing
> through your body also pass through your? eyeballs.? If your
> eyeballs don't catch light, you can't see.? And you tend to bump
> into things, which rather defeats the purpose of being invisible
> in? the first place, n'est ce pas?


Hi
    Our Military is very close to a true invisibility cloak then
you may know it bends the light around you instead of passing
through you. The trick now is to find a way to make them that
don't coast billions each.
                  Yours Ken



From Walabio at MacOSX.COM  Mon Apr 22 18:56:35 2013
From: Walabio at MacOSX.COM (=?utf-8?Q?=E2=B8=98=C5=ACalabio=E2=80=BD?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 18:56:35 +0000
Subject: A functional cloak of invisibility ? what?
In-Reply-To: <1366622702.798.43691.m7@yahoogroups.com>
References: <1366622702.798.43691.m7@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <9545B7F2-6AE2-4153-AF0D-75CA6D021162@MacOSX.Com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192361

	Removed la caca de los toros.

	April-Fools Day was 3 quarters of a month ago.

Walabio