From coverton1982 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 8 05:11:23 2013 From: coverton1982 at hotmail.com (corey) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 23:11:23 -0600 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192323 Does anyone wonder what might have happened if Fleur had married Harry? I don't know, it was just something I was thinking about. Since it's been a while since anyone's posted here... Corey From dragonkeeper012003 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 8 06:17:29 2013 From: dragonkeeper012003 at yahoo.com (dragonkeeper) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 22:17:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. Message-ID: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192324 I think the real question that has merit is: "What if Fleur and Ron got together?" I think it would started to strain Ron after a while with a long distance relationship especially with Hermione around. It would be later in the "Half Blood Prince"?where Ron knows who his true love is but?what if it was different? Thoughts?? Miner From ddankanyin at cox.net Fri Mar 8 17:34:08 2013 From: ddankanyin at cox.net (dorothy dankanyin) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 12:34:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] If Fleur had married Harry. References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192325 From: corey Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 12:11 AM Does anyone wonder what might have happened if Fleur had married Harry? I don't know, it was just something I was thinking about. Since it's been a while since anyone's posted here... Corey, Why on earth would he have done that? Dorothy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ddankanyin at cox.net Fri Mar 8 17:36:18 2013 From: ddankanyin at cox.net (dorothy dankanyin) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 12:36:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> No: HPFGUIDX 192326 From: dragonkeeper Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 1:17 AM I think the real question that has merit is: "What if Fleur and Ron got together?" I think it would started to strain Ron after a while with a long distance relationship especially with Hermione around. It would be later in the "Half Blood Prince" where Ron knows who his true love is but what if it was different? Thoughts? Miner, I don't think it even would have been anything that ever would have happened, either because of Fleur's thinking of Ron as a very young boy or because Ron sort of "knew" Hermione was his real love. Dorothy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coverton1982 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 8 19:22:33 2013 From: coverton1982 at hotmail.com (corey) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 13:22:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192327 >> Miner: >> I think the real question that has merit is: "What if Fleur and Ron >> got together?" I think it would started to strain Ron after a while with a long distance relationship especially with Hermione around. It would be later in the "Half Blood Prince" where Ron knows who his true >> love is but what if it was different? Thoughts? > Dorothy: > I don't think it even would have been anything that ever would have > happened, either because of Fleur's thinking of Ron as a very young > boy or because Ron sort of "knew" Hermione was his real love. Corey: Yeah, I guess that's true. Just thought I'd ask just because. Does anyone wish there was another Potter book or are most people happy that there is only 7 books? Part of me wishes there were another Potter book but I guess we'll just have to live with 7 books. From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com Fri Mar 8 22:43:17 2013 From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 22:43:17 -0000 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192328 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "corey" wrote: : Corey > Does anyone wonder what might have happened if Fleur had married > Harry? I don't know, it was just something I was thinking about. > Since it's been a while since anyone's posted here... Geoff: I doubt if that has entered anybody's thinking until now. Fleur often gave an impression of thinking herself superior and she certainly had a poor view of him in early interactions: 'Fleur frowned. "But evidently zair 'as been a mistake," she said contemptuously to Bagman. "'E cannot . 'E is too young." and... "Madame Maxine!" said Fleur at once, striding over to her Headmistress. "Zey are saying zat zis little boy is to compete also!"' (GOF "The Four Champions" p. 241 UK edition) Not a resounding declaration of confidence - or love - methinks. From coverton1982 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 9 00:13:14 2013 From: coverton1982 at hotmail.com (corey) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 18:13:14 -0600 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192329 Yeah, I guess you're right, but was just something I'd throw out there. I wish she would write another book about Harry and company. I don't know, to see what they're doing now. Did Harry ever become a dark wizard catcher? Or can Ron drive a muggle car better or what ever. And who knows, there might be another dark wizard out there. Corey From lynde4 at gmail.com Sat Mar 9 00:14:44 2013 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:14:44 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192330 Fleur and Harry? Nah. Never could happen. Fleur and Ron? Nope! Not for a second! As for another Potter book? Sure. I'd like to learn about Teddy Lupin's life, myself. Lynda From vikingwoman at shaw.ca Sat Mar 9 01:11:57 2013 From: vikingwoman at shaw.ca (Charla) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:11:57 -0800 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> Message-ID: <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> No: HPFGUIDX 192331 >> Dorothy: > I don't think it even would have been anything that ever would have > happened, either because of Fleur's thinking of Ron as a very young >> boy or because Ron sort of "knew" Hermione was his real love. > Corey: > Yeah, I guess that's true. Just thought I'd ask just because. Does anyone wish there was another Potter book or are most people happy that there is only 7 books? Part of me wishes there were another > Potter book but I guess we'll just have to live with 7 books. Charla: I wish there was another 7 books then another 7..... As for Fleur; I think she wants a more mature man than either Harry or Ron so Bill seems like a good fit. From k12listmomma at comcast.net Sat Mar 9 06:12:17 2013 From: k12listmomma at comcast.net (Shelley) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 23:12:17 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <513AD2C1.40808@comcast.net> No: HPFGUIDX 192332 On 3/8/2013 3:43 PM, Geoff wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "corey" wrote: > : > Corey >> Does anyone wonder what might have happened if Fleur had married >> Harry? I don't know, it was just something I was thinking about. >> Since it's been a while since anyone's posted here... > Geoff: > I doubt if that has entered anybody's thinking until now. Fleur > often gave an impression of thinking herself superior and she > certainly had a poor view of him in early interactions: > > 'Fleur frowned. "But evidently zair 'as been a mistake," she said > contemptuously to Bagman. "'E cannot . 'E is too young." > > and... > > "Madame Maxine!" said Fleur at once, striding over to her Headmistress. > "Zey are saying zat zis little boy is to compete also!"' > (GOF "The Four Champions" p. 241 UK edition) > > Not a resounding declaration of confidence - or love - methinks. But this scene is premature....consider Harry as he saves Gabriella from the lake, and then she thinks Harry risked winning the competition to save her sister. Her attitude changes from hauty to seeing Harry in a new light. To me, this could have been the start of a very deep infatuation on her part of Harry. Harry, all throughout the competition proves he is anything but a "little boy". First impressions can be very wrong, and I think Fleur realizes she made a mistake in judging him too soon. I thought, when I read the books, that Harry and Fleur could get together, but Harry is really down to earth and would want a wife that was the same, so he and Ginny made much more sense. But yes, I did see Harry with Fleur at one point in the series. It would have been just another reason Ron would have been jealous of Harry. Shelley From bart at moosewise.com Sat Mar 9 14:17:08 2013 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:17:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> Message-ID: <513B4464.6040603@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192333 On 3/8/2013 8:11 PM, Charla wrote: > Dorothy: >> I don't think it even would have been anything that ever would have >> happened, either because of Fleur's thinking of Ron as a very young >>> boy or because Ron sort of "knew" Hermione was his real love. >> Corey: >> Yeah, I guess that's true. Just thought I'd ask just because. Does > anyone wish there was another Potter book or are most people happy > that there is only 7 books? Part of me wishes there were another >> Potter book but I guess we'll just have to live with 7 books. > > Charla: > I wish there was another 7 books then another 7..... > > As for Fleur; I think she wants a more mature man than either Harry > or Ron so Bill seems like a good fit. Fleur certainly likes and respects 'arry. While is never really made clear if his ability to resist the Imperius Curse is based on his own inner strength or the presence of the Mortysoul, he clearly has stronger resistance to her Veela charms than most (I must admit that I had suspicions that he was the one JKR was going to make gay); that plus his putting her interests over his (aka Doing the Right Thing) makes him stand out in her eyes. On the other hand, Beel comes off as "cool" even by WW standards, and he also seems to be not as strongly effected as most by her Veela ability. I really can't believe that Fleur could have any respect for any man who could be turned into a drooling slave by her presence (which is why Ron is beneath her notice). If Beel weren't around, I could see Fleur being interested in 'arry in a few years, when their maturity level is more similar. But, frankly, if Ginny weren't around, Harry would have had a better chance of ending up with even Luna than Fleur, as the best way to Harry's heart is for him to know that you have his back. Bart From coverton1982 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 9 04:39:42 2013 From: coverton1982 at hotmail.com (corey) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 22:39:42 -0600 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192334 > Charla: > I wish there was another 7 books then another 7..... Corey: That person that wanted more books of 7 must be a real big huge fan. Wow! From coverton1982 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 9 04:40:29 2013 From: coverton1982 at hotmail.com (corey) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 22:40:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com><3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192335 > Lynda: > As for another Potter book? Sure. I'd like to learn about Teddy > Lupin's life, myself. Corey: Yeah, that would be neat to have seen what his life is like. From lynde4 at gmail.com Sat Mar 9 06:20:03 2013 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 22:20:03 -0800 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192336 > Corey: > Yeah, I guess you're right, but was just something I'd throw out > there. I wish she would write another book about Harry and company. > I don't know, to see what they're doing now. Did Harry ever become > a dark wizard catcher? Or can Ron drive a muggle car better or what > ever. And who knows, there might be another dark wizard out there. Lynda: We know, from the epilogue and the notes written by Rowling that Harry did indeed become a dark wizard catcher. As I said, I'd love to read Teddy's story. And, in my family, we've long speculated another thought. What about Dudley? Wouldn't it be fun if Dudley Dursley married and he and his wife had a kid who was magical? It would certainly turn Grandpa and Grandma on their ears now, wouldn't it? Lynda From vikingwoman at shaw.ca Sun Mar 10 02:35:24 2013 From: vikingwoman at shaw.ca (Charla) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 18:35:24 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192337 >> Charla: >> I wish there was another 7 books then another 7..... > Corey: > That person that wanted more books of 7 must be a real big huge > fan. Wow! Charla: Yes, I wish my husband was as big a fan as I._._,_.___ From maryannsears1972 at gmail.com Sun Mar 10 03:40:33 2013 From: maryannsears1972 at gmail.com (maryann sears) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 21:40:33 -0600 Subject: If Fleur had married Harry. In-Reply-To: References: <1362723449.71104.YahooMailNeo@web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <3F777543258A40649BDEB36914AF84F8@DG22FG61> <9E4E73E490C548DE8113095A30EB4B68@CHARLADESKTOP> Message-ID: <01ce01ce1d41$0c149bc0$243dd340$@com> No: HPFGUIDX 192338 >> Charla: >> I wish there was another 7 books then another 7..... > Corey: > That person that wanted more books of 7 must be a real big huge > fan. Wow! Maryann: Hello; there are 3 and almost four. They are about Harry's sons going to Hogwarts. I love them. Maryann From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 18 01:24:38 2013 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 01:24:38 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192339 This message is a Special Notice for all members of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups In addition to being published onlist (available in webview), this post is also being delivered offlist to email in-boxes, to those whose "Message Delivery" is set to "Special Notices." If this is problematic, or if you have any questions, contact the List Elves at (minus that extra space) HPforGrownups-owner @yahoogroups.com Chapter 20. The First Task. Harry shares with Hermione that the first task will include Dragons and they try to find spells which could be useful to deal with them. Harry decides that since Cedric is the only champion who does not know yet about Dragons, it will be only fair to warn him, which he does. Moody gives Harry useful advice about playing to his strengths during the task and finding a nice spell to get what he needs. Harry figures out that he needs to get his Firebolt and do some flying. He spends the remaining time practicing the Summoning Charm with Hermione. The first task comes and it turns out that the Champions must get the Golden Egg, which is guarded by a dragon. With different degree of skill and success they manage to do so. Harry indeed shows to everybody that he is an excellent flyer and gets the Egg faster than anybody else, however he is hurt and the marks from the judges make him and Krum tied in the first place. Ron comes around ? he tells Harry that whoever put his name in the Gobblet was trying to kill him. Harry is so happy that he feels that he does not even need to hear Ron's apology. Ludo Bagman tells the Champions that they now have the long break before the Second Task to figure out how to solve the clue inside the Golden Egg. Question: 1. Every Champion was warned about the Dragons by their Elders, and Harry took care of Cedric. Did you think that cheating make the task less interesting/exciting or not? Why? 2. When I was rereading this chapter I was reminded about how Fleur looked so much less confident and prepared than other Champions. Granted I have not reread the other Tasks for a while, but I seem to remember that she was always the least competent and prepared competitor. Do you think it was because she was a young woman or not? 3. What did you think about Harry's reaction to Ron's apology? 4. I thought this chapter had some of the funniest lines in the book. Which were your favorites? 5. Please add your own question. NOTE: For more information on HPfGU's chapter discussions, please see "POST DH Chapter Discussions" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?method=reportRows&tbl=33 If you would like to volunteer to lead a chapter discussion, please drop a note to HPforGrownups-owner @yahoogroups.com (minus that extra space). From ceridwennight at hotmail.com Tue Mar 19 17:08:23 2013 From: ceridwennight at hotmail.com (Ceridwen) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:08:23 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192340 Alla: > Chapter 20. The First Task. Ceridwen: Thanks, Alla, for a good chapter summary, and for the questions. Alla: > Question: > 1. Every Champion was warned about the Dragons by their Elders, and Harry took care of Cedric. Did you think that cheating make the task less interesting/exciting or not? Why? Ceridwen: I thought that showing the dragons to the champions was a part of the first challenge - not a test for the champions, but for their respective head-teachers. I thought that Dumbledore fell down on the job here, knowing that the others would be told, but letting Cedric stay in the dark. In other words, I thought that this was a challenge for the heads to decide whether they would follow the rules, or scrap them when they saw that the test involved such dangerous creatures. Alla: > 2. When I was rereading this chapter I was reminded about how Fleur looked so much less confident and prepared than other Champions. Granted I have not reread the other Tasks for a while, but I seem to remember that she was always the least competent and prepared competitor. Do you think it was because she was a young woman or not? Ceridwen: Yes, I do think that Fleur was shown as more vulnerable and less confident because she was female. I was not sure if this was a comment about Fleur herself, or of different social expectations for females and for males. After finishing the series, I think it was a comment about Fleur as a female, but not as a comment on social constructs. Alla: > 3. What did you think about Harry's reaction to Ron's apology? Ceridwen: I thought it was a reasonable reaction of a socially awkward teenager. Avoid the emo stuff and move on. ;) I don't have any particular favorite lines. Thanks for a good discussion! Ceridwen. From bpmull at yahoo.com Thu Mar 21 07:16:54 2013 From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce Mull) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 07:16:54 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192341 > Question: > 1. Every Champion was warned about the Dragons by their Elders, > and Harry took care of Cedric. Did you think that cheating make > the task less interesting/exciting or not? Why? Bruce: 1. I think that the "secrecy" about the dragons was not real. I think they expected to have the champions told. (Although Fudge may not have known, but then ...) Dumbledore knew that Hagrid would take care of telling Harry and that Cedric would probably be told by Harry as that IS his nature. > 2. When I was rereading this chapter I was reminded about how > Fleur looked so much less confident and prepared than other > Champions. Granted I have not reread the other Tasks for a while, > but I seem to remember that she was always the least competent and > prepared competitor. Do you think it was because she was a young > woman or not? Bruce: 2. I am not sure whether Fleur's incompetence was because she was female or because she was French. The British have always thought that bravery and French were contradictory concepts -- at least in much of their literature -- so it may have been that coming into play. I would HATE to think she thought females were not as good as males in competing because this is certainly NOT true. > 3. What did you think about Harry's reaction to Ron's apology? Bruce: 3. I think Harry's response was the only logical response to expect considering their age and Harry's background. > 4. I thought this chapter had some of the funniest lines in the > book. Which were your favorites? Bruce: 4. There are several good one's. The first one that comes to mind is: "Harry felt oddly separate from everyone around him, whether they were wishing him good luck or hissing 'We'll have a box of tissues ready, Potter' as he passed." I thought it was very funny -- although probably somewhat morbid. From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Mar 22 15:33:39 2013 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:33:39 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192342 > Question: > 1. Every Champion was warned about the Dragons by their Elders, and Harry took > care of Cedric. Did you think that cheating make the task less interesting/exciting or not? Why? Pippin: I think it makes the tasks more interesting from the reader's point of view. It gives a moral dimension to the contest and to the characters. > > 2. When I was rereading this chapter I was reminded about how Fleur looked so > much less confident and prepared than other Champions. Granted I have not reread > the other Tasks for a while, but I seem to remember that she was always the > least competent and prepared competitor. Do you think it was because she was a > young woman or not? Pippin: May I suggest that the collective opinion that she was the least competent and prepared is influenced by her being a young woman? JKR has fun with the unconscious assumption that outstanding athletes are male. You have to read the World Cup match closely and match up the pronouns to realize that at least two of the champion Irish chasers are female. And yet some readers complained fiercely online that there were no women players at the World Cup match. That's how insidious unconscious bias is -- you'd have had to care that the genders are fairly represented to pay attention in the first place, but even so, some people found the imagination refused to cooperate and pictured the players as male. I disagree that Fleur was consistently the least competent or prepared. While JKR doesn't tell us either Fleur or Cedric's score for the task, Fleur got her egg in five minutes and without any injuries that we know of (her skirt caught fire, but she put it out.) Cedric took ten minutes and was severely burned. Fleur bested male competitors from her own school to be champion in the first place. She undoubtedly placed last in the second task, but we don't know why she had so much trouble with the Grindylows -- it could have been some fault of hers, or it could have been external circumstances. Once rescued, she had to be held back by force from returning to the water to rescue her sister. The narrator reports she was fighting "tooth and nail" so she must have lost her wand -- if the grindylows managed to grab it away from her, she would have been helpless against so many -- and they were already riled up by Harry's passage. In the third task she was ambushed by Fake!Moody first thing -- so he must have thought she had a chance of making it to the Cup before any of the others, or he wouldn't have bothered. You could make a case that of the three "official" contestants, Cedric was actually the weakest contender -- he was the one that Fake!Moody left till last, and, alas, the one that didn't survive. > > 3. What did you think about Harry's reaction to Ron's apology? I thought it was noble of him to decide he didn't need to hear it -- but also funny, considering that it's what he was holding out for in the first place. > > 4. I thought this chapter had some of the funniest lines in the book. Which were > your favorites? > Pippin: I liked Harry announcing in Divination Class that he didn't mind being subject to "sudden, violent deaths" , "just as long as it's not drawn-out. I don't want to suffer." I also like "the last of the dragon-free hours" Thanks, Alla, for doing the questons. Pippin From daveh47 at gmail.com Sat Mar 23 06:02:39 2013 From: daveh47 at gmail.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:02:39 -0700 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task In-Reply-To: <1363859399.765.93239.m7@yahoogroups.com> References: <1363859399.765.93239.m7@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <514D457F.8080104@gmail.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192343 Bruce: > 2. I am not sure whether Fleur's incompetence was because she was > female or because she was French. The British have always thought that > bravery and French were contradictory concepts -- at least in much of > their literature -- so it may have been that coming into play. I would > HATE to think she thought females were not as good as males in > competing because this is certainly NOT true. Dave: I didn't think it was either because she was female *or* French -- I thought it was because she was part Veela -- i.e. presumably used to getting by on her good looks and charms rather than the grey cell department. From dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 24 13:51:35 2013 From: dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com (dumbledore11214) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:51:35 -0000 Subject: GOF CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192344 Hi guys, We have the following GOF chapter discussions still unclaimed - chapter 21 (next chapter to come), 22-26, 32, 33, 35, 37. Help please? Alika elf. From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Mar 25 17:06:28 2013 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (pippin_999) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 17:06:28 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task In-Reply-To: <514D457F.8080104@gmail.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192345 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > > Bruce: > > 2. I am not sure whether Fleur's incompetence was because she was > > female or because she was French. The British have always thought that > > bravery and French were contradictory concepts -- at least in much of > > their literature -- so it may have been that coming into play. I would > > HATE to think she thought females were not as good as males in > > competing because this is certainly NOT true. > > Dave: > I didn't think it was either because she was female *or* French -- I > thought it was because she was part Veela -- i.e. presumably used to > getting by on her good looks and charms rather than the grey cell > department. > Pippin: Presumably the Goblet of Fire wasn't affected by Veela charms. But being part Veela could have made Fleur overconfident when it came to the second task. The Veela of folklore is a water spirit, and she may have thought that would protect her. Kind of like Draco thinks that because he is on the side of the dark creatures, they won't hurt him. Pippin From geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com Tue Mar 26 20:44:13 2013 From: geoffbannister123 at btinternet.com (Geoff) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 20:44:13 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Twenty, Goblet of Fire: The First Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192346 --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" wrote: dumbledore11214: > Chapter 20. The First Task. > > Harry shares with Hermione that the first task will include Dragons and they try > to find spells which could be useful to deal with them. Harry decides that since > Cedric is the only champion who does not know yet about Dragons, it will be only > fair to warn him, which he does. > Moody gives Harry useful advice about playing to his strengths during the task > and finding a nice spell to get what he needs. Harry figures out that he needs > to get his Firebolt and do some flying. He spends the remaining time practicing > the Summoning Charm with Hermione. > The first task comes and it turns out that the Champions must get the Golden > Egg, which is guarded by a dragon. With different degree of skill and success they > manage to do so. Harry indeed shows to everybody that he is an excellent flyer > and gets the Egg faster than anybody else, however he is hurt and the marks from > the judges make him and Krum tied in the first place. > Ron comes around ? he tells Harry that whoever put his name in the Gobblet was > trying to kill him. Harry is so happy that he feels that he does not even need > to hear Ron's apology. > Ludo Bagman tells the Champions that they now have the long break before the > Second Task to figure out how to solve the clue inside the Golden > Egg. > > Question: > 1. Every Champion was warned about the Dragons by their Elders, and Harry took > care of Cedric. Did you think that cheating make the task less interesting/exciting or not? Why? Geoff: I don't think this is relevant to the question insofar as the task will be dangerous and therefore exciting whether the candidate knows what is coming or not. Admittedly, as the old saying has it:"Forewarned is forearmed". The element of surprise is then missing. Following on from that, in a strange way, the cheating makes it fairer by creating a level playing field for each competitor. Harry, in a sense, mirrors this in his conversation with Cedric: '"Why are you telling me?" he (Cedric) asked. Harry looked at him in disbelief. He was sure Cedric wouldn't have asked that if he had seen the dragons himself. Harry wouldn't have let his worst enemy face those monsters unprepared - well, perhaps Malfoy or Snape. "It's just... fair, isn't it? he said to Cedric. "We all know now... we're on an even footing, aren't we?"' (GoF "The First Task" pp. 298/99 UK edition) Harry sees that, for the benefit of fair play - a tradition enshrined in British ideas of sportsmanship - if the others know, then so should Cedric. In spite of the attempt of Karkaroff - presumably for the glory and honour of Durmstrang, and the fact that Hagrid is bringing Madame Maxine for her interest - and maybe some clumsy courting? - is producing the potential for differing risk for the contenders, Harry is having none of this. It has to be equal. dumbledore11214: > 3. What did you think about Harry's reaction to Ron's apology? Geoff: I thought that it was a perfectly understandable response. Here is a so-called friend who ostracised Harry because he thought that Harry was grabbing the fame and, realising that this was more than an inter-house sports match, comes and gives a rather lame apology and expects Harry to be all over him welcoming him back. Harry does rapidly mend fences but, in a similar situation, I think I would leave Ron to stew for a bit. dumbledore11214: > 4. I thought this chapter had some of the funniest lines in the book. Which were > your favorites? Geoff: One which comes to mind is the last comment in the chapter: '"Congratulations, Harry!" she (Skeeter) said, beaming at him. "I wonder if you could give me a quick word?..." "Yeah, you can have a word," said Harry savagely. "Goodbye."' (ibid. p.316) Payback's nice - sometimes. :-) dumbledore11214: > 5. Please add your own question. Geoff: 6. In the conversation with Moody (p.301 UK edition), Moody says to Harry that he is not going to tell Harry how to get past his dragon because he doesn't show favouritism but then says he is going to give him some good, general advice. Is what he says and what he does contradictory? What do you think he might have done, if the penny hadn't dropped with Harry and he realised what Moody was driving at?