From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 2 18:01:58 2014 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 2 Mar 2014 18:01:58 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/2/2014, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1393783318.10.86480.m6@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192609 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 2, 2014 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2014 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 9 17:01:34 2014 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 9 Mar 2014 17:01:34 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/9/2014, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1394384494.16.90440.m12@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192610 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 9, 2014 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2014 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k12listmomma at comcast.net Tue Mar 11 09:11:27 2014 From: k12listmomma at comcast.net (Shelley) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 03:11:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: JKR to Emma Watson: H should've married H In-Reply-To: References: <52EF06CD.5090701@cox.net> <52F2A409.2050900@cox.net> <52F7A861.7050201@comcast.net> Message-ID: <531ED33F.7090904@comcast.net> No: HPFGUIDX 192611 On 2/19/2014 7:33 PM, dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com wrote: > Alla: > > As to marriages, sure, I get what they symbolized - I just think that > it would have felt more believable to leave the idea as to whether it > is possible to meet your forever true love and never, ever date > anybody else when you are eleven up to reader's imagination. Because > while I am not the one to deny teenage love (as I am sure I mentioned > before close member of the family met his wife when they were > sixteen-seventeen), I think it is rare and meeting each other as kids > is so rare that could be eye rolling. > Shelley now: I realize I am late in answering this, but I think the pairing of childhood friends or classmates occurs far more frequently than you know! I, myself, met my husband, in kindergarten. My husband and I are one of 3 pairs of classmates of our year that married, right after high school, along with a 4th couple that "refound" each other after a 5 year class reunion, making for 4 marriages of same-year classmates, but I can show you another handful of classmates of mine who also married within the school- kids of a different grade. Our school was a small one, about 250-290 classmates per grade, in a rural area. I know, from talking to my mother-in-law, that her rural school also produced multiple marriages of classmates. Given Hogwarts is a similiar set-up where the same kids attend for many years in a row, generating a strong intimacy of your classmates, and that school is segregated by location and lack of interaction with other schools, pairings between classmates and pairings between kids of different years is far from a "rare" idea. A city school, where kids interact daily with kids from other schools in that same city produce a lot more different school pairings, because the access is there to do so. I also question your "never date anyone else" comment- where did Rowlings ever say that Ron and Hermione never dated anyone else? We have from the books that Hermione and Ron didn't go to the ball together, rather, Hermione had a relationship with Victor Crum, that continued for some time past the dance. While Ron was oblivious to "girls", Hermione was not the same about "boys". So much of Hermione's life, when she was not with Ron and Harry, isn't in the books, but it is alluded to. Harry was not upset that Hermione was dating, but Ron seems to be startled by it. Whether Rowlings was just trying to paint the boys as being new to the dating scene, or a jealousy by Ron that was the start of his romantic feelings for Hermione, gosh knows. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmwcfo at yahoo.com Thu Mar 13 09:17:52 2014 From: jmwcfo at yahoo.com (Jay Winokur) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2014 10:17:52 +0100 Subject: Jay Winokur Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192612 http://yellowmetalbootcamp.com/vz/xfox-news.php Jay Winokur -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 21:26:49 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:26:49 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: JKR to Emma Watson: H should've married H In-Reply-To: <531ED33F.7090904@comcast.net> References: <52EF06CD.5090701@cox.net> <52F2A409.2050900@cox.net> <52F7A861.7050201@comcast.net> <531ED33F.7090904@comcast.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192613 It happens often! I think of my friends from high school, how many of them paired off and married and it's a lot. And then there were those who paired off and did not marry, some by personal choice and some because gay marriage was not (and still is not) legal where I live and again, it's a lot of them. And most of them are still together. So people do marry from relationships formed at school. Some even marry young and have successful marriages. Lynda On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Shelley wrote: > > > On 2/19/2014 7:33 PM, dumbledore11214 at yahoo.com wrote: > > Alla: > > As to marriages, sure, I get what they symbolized - I just think that it > would have felt more believable to leave the idea as to whether it is > possible to meet your forever true love and never, ever date anybody else > when you are eleven up to reader's imagination. Because while I am not the > one to deny teenage love (as I am sure I mentioned before close member of > the family met his wife when they were sixteen-seventeen), I think it is > rare and meeting each other as kids is so rare that could be eye rolling. > > > > Shelley now: > I realize I am late in answering this, but I think the pairing of > childhood friends or classmates occurs far more frequently than you know! > > I, myself, met my husband, in kindergarten. My husband and I are one of 3 > pairs of classmates of our year that married, right after high school, > along with a 4th couple that "refound" each other after a 5 year class > reunion, making for 4 marriages of same-year classmates, but I can show you > another handful of classmates of mine who also married within the school- > kids of a different grade. Our school was a small one, about 250-290 > classmates per grade, in a rural area. I know, from talking to my > mother-in-law, that her rural school also produced multiple marriages of > classmates. Given Hogwarts is a similiar set-up where the same kids attend > for many years in a row, generating a strong intimacy of your classmates, > and that school is segregated by location and lack of interaction with > other schools, pairings between classmates and pairings between kids of > different years is far from a "rare" idea. A city school, where kids > interact daily with kids from other schools in that same city produce a lot > more different school pairings, because the access is there to do so. > > I also question your "never date anyone else" comment- where did Rowlings > ever say that Ron and Hermione never dated anyone else? We have from the > books that Hermione and Ron didn't go to the ball together, rather, > Hermione had a relationship with Victor Crum, that continued for some time > past the dance. While Ron was oblivious to "girls", Hermione was not the > same about "boys". So much of Hermione's life, when she was not with Ron > and Harry, isn't in the books, but it is alluded to. Harry was not upset > that Hermione was dating, but Ron seems to be startled by it. Whether > Rowlings was just trying to paint the boys as being new to the dating > scene, or a jealousy by Ron that was the start of his romantic feelings for > Hermione, gosh knows. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bart at moosewise.com Fri Mar 14 02:17:28 2014 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 22:17:28 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: JKR to Emma Watson: H should've married H In-Reply-To: References: <52EF06CD.5090701@cox.net> <52F2A409.2050900@cox.net> <52F7A861.7050201@comcast.net> <531ED33F.7090904@comcast.net> Message-ID: <532266B8.1080905@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192614 On 3/13/2014 5:26 PM, Lynda Cordova wrote: > > It happens often! I think of my friends from high school, how many of > them paired off and married and it's a lot. And then there were those > who paired off and did not marry, some by personal choice and some > because gay marriage was not (and still is not) legal where I live and > again, it's a lot of them. And most of them are still together. So > people do marry from relationships formed at school. Some even marry > young and have successful marriages. Bart: And remember in the Wizarding World, there is only a relatively small pool of available mates (at least ones where there won't be a major power gap, although Snape's mother seemed to be bullied by her muggle husband, which I REALLY had trouble figuring out). Bart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sat Mar 15 23:40:31 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 16:40:31 -0700 Subject: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192615 How did Dumbledore become the Master of the Deathstick/Elder Wand? At the beginning I was under the impression that he gained allegiance of the Wand by defeating Grindelwald in a duell. I will ignore the fact that defeating a Dark Lord with a supposedly unbeatable wand should be impossible under normal circumstances (would this mean that the wand can only be taken by cunning or underhanded means?). Later I heard, that Grindelwald had never truly mastered the Elder Wand, he had stolen it from Gregorovitch (the other wandmaker). If this is true, how or when did Dumbledore gain the allegiance of the Elder wand? By defeating Gregorovitch? It is never said whether the wandmaker was the master of the Elder wand or if he gained through the same means as Grindelwald. I guess it would be the later, since Grindelwald could have simply gained mastership of the wand by defeating/killing the wandmaker. So are there maybe other means of gaining allegiance of a wand besides defeating its former master? Otherwise Dumbledore might not have been the master of the elder wand at all (which would explain why he didn't defeat Voldemort despite being 'the strongest wizard AND in possession of the Elder wand in the Battle inside the Ministry, book five). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 00:23:29 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 17:23:29 -0700 Subject: Ron, the chess player... In-Reply-To: References: <52123D5B.5070602@moosewise.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192616 I agree. Ron is not a very bright character, but supposedly an excellent chess player. He also doesn't have the personality I would affiliate with a genius chess player. This could have different reasons: 1, Maybe he isn't as good at chess as we think? His opponents could have been really bad (Hermione and Harry), average, or just not as good as we thought (McGonagal's chess game). 2, He could have become this good at chess because he plays a lot and not because he is incredibly talented. This would also explain the lack of strategy or tactical thinking on Ron's part throughout the story. 3, Or maybe, and this I think is far more probable, Ron's talent at chess was attributed randomly, because Rowling needed someone who could beat the giant chess board, and further she wanted to give Ron something he is good at. Most likely she never thought it really through. Frankly the only character that shows some intelligence and cunning throughout the seven books is Dumbledore (not counting intuitive intelligence (Harry) or booksmarts (Hermione)). Otherwise all characters seem to consist of dumb and dumber. moony_loony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 00:48:40 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 17:48:40 -0700 Subject: Wand allegiance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192617 I can't really answer this question, it seems to me that Rowling has simply failed to think this through. Frankly it makes no sense. In the first place it was impossible for Dumbledore to gain allegiance of the Elder Wand, since --as I understand it-- Grindlewald had not been master of the Elder Wand either. So it would be impossible for Dumbledore to gain the allegiance of the Elder Wand by defeating Grindelwald. Simply put, this is just another plothole/inconsistency inside the book. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 00:38:06 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 17:38:06 -0700 Subject: It would have been nicer if Dudley were nicer to Harry. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192618 While I can agree that a large part of Dudley's behaviour can be attributed to his upbrining, this does not excuse his actions. Everyone is responsible for his own actions, though of course those actions may be explained or reasoned. I do wish that Dudley had been less mean to Harry. I don't talk about being nicer, being less mean would have sufficed. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 01:02:40 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 18:02:40 -0700 Subject: If the Marauders weren't so mean to Snape would he have been nicer to Harry. In-Reply-To: References: <0r2qdgnvvslarov949n8qkbq.1380230389612@email.android.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192619 I think there are a lot of factors that contribute to Snape's mean behaviour towards Harry. While the bullying he experienced at the hands of Harry's father might have been a major contributing factor, this is not solely the reason for his frankly horrible treatment of Harry. Though I agree that he might not have been as terrible to Harry, if James had not been such a bully. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sat Mar 15 23:59:02 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 16:59:02 -0700 Subject: Lily's sacrifice and potection Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192620 Lily sacrificed herself in order to protect Harry. Because of this sacrifice Voldemort was unable to kill Harry, the AK curse rebounded and Voldemort's body was destroyed. Recently I realized that there is someone else who sacrificed himself to protect someone loved--I'm speaking of James. James sacrificed himself to protect Lily and Harry. What is the difference between James' sacrifice and the sacrifice of Lily (and in book seven Harry)? All three died to protect someone--they selflessly sacrificed themselves because of love, but only Lily's and Harry's sacrifice resulted in some sort of protection (Lily's sacrifice protected Harry and Harry's sacrifice protected the students and teachers in Hogwarts). Why? Where is the difference? There must have been others, too, that sacrificed themselves for their loved ones. Mothers like Lily that died to protect their children during the First Rise of Voldemort. How does this magic work and why can only some trigger the protection? moony_loony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 01:29:33 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 18:29:33 -0700 Subject: Future projections of Wizarding Society post war. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192621 One of my biggest peeves about the ending of the books is that nothing really changed on the political scale. Yes, there was a war and people died/were persecuted because of their heritage, but has anything changed? We are back to they way things were before Voldemort. While wizards might have gotten the wake-up call they needed to change things, this does not conclude the solution of the problem. A few people were killed and the Head of the Pureblood movement was killed, but this does not mean that the problem is solved. This is like saying that killing Hitler and some Nazis solved the problems that led to WWII! The two opposing parties--Light and Dark Wizards have not come to any sort of understanding, it stayed simply the way it was before, Light wizards have won and enforce their own political agenda. Something that will doubtless lead to another war. Frankly, this whole pureblood-muggleborn issue makes no sense. First Salazar, then Grindlewald and then Voldemort? If it is simple superstition it should have been cleared long time ago. Wizards have no science in the muggle sense (maybe), but surely they must wondered and done some research. JKRowling said that muggleborn are the descendants of squibs, this shouldn't have been so difficult for them to find out? Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iam.kemper at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 06:35:09 2014 From: iam.kemper at gmail.com (iam.kemper at gmail.com) Date: 15 Mar 2014 23:35:09 -0700 Subject: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192622 moony loony wrote : ... Later I heard, that Grindelwald had never truly mastered the Elder Wand, he had stolen it from Gregorovitch (the other wandmaker). If this is true, how or when did Dumbledore gain the allegiance of the Elder wand? By defeating Gregorovitch? It is never said whether the wandmaker was the master of the Elder wand or if he gained through the same means as Grindelwald. I guess it would be the later, since Grindelwald could have simply gained mastership of the wand by defeating/killing the wandmaker. Kemper: When Grindelwald said he was never the true master of the Wand, I think he meant that figuratively. He was obsessed with possessing it since childhood and even when he took it from Gregorovitch he was obsessed with keeping it. So with decades in Nurmengard to dwell on defeat, he realized that he was never master of the Wand. The Wand was the master of him. Kemper -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 12:11:29 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 05:11:29 -0700 Subject: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192623 Thanks, that makes actually sense. Still, there remain some unanswered questions. How did Grindlewald become the master of the elder wand then? I doubt that the wandmaker he stole the wand from was the real master. And this still doesn't explain how someone in possession of the Death Wand can be beaten in a fair duel, after all the Deathstick is supposed to be unbeatable. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 12:48:19 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 05:48:19 -0700 Subject: Which HP character scares you most? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192624 Dumbledore. He is by far the most cunning, manipulative and ruthless character of the whole series. The most scary part is that you don't realize it until much later. Frankly, he makes for a much better Slytherin than Voldemort. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bart at moosewise.com Sun Mar 16 15:11:26 2014 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 11:11:26 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5325BF1E.90304@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192625 On 3/15/2014 7:40 PM, moony_loony at yahoo.com wrote: > So are there maybe other means of gaining allegiance of a wand besides > defeating its former master? > Otherwise Dumbledore might not have been the master of the elder wand > at all (which would explain why he didn't defeat Voldemort despite > being 'the strongest wizard AND in possession of the Elder wand in the > Battle inside the Ministry, book five). Bart: The story makes clear Grindlewald WAS the master of the elder wand, and so was Dumbledore. However, it never makes clear exactly how Dumbledore defeated him. The implication, though, was that it was not by direct attack, as that should have been impossible (still, given that there were wizards who could see through Harry's Invisibility Cloak, it could just be that the Hallows, while very powerful, were not quite as powerful as the legends told, and DD's superior skill was able to counteract Grindlewald's superior power). However, I can give a couple of guesses on how the duel was won (with explanations as to why JKR didn't just say it): 1) DD can be pretty damned ruthless if the situation calls for it. Given that JKR thought of DD as gay, it is quite possible that DD used the feelings that he and Grindy used to have for each other as a distraction, long enough to land the coup de grace. As JKR wanted to make his sexuality an undercurrent rather than explicitly state it, explaining this method would be saying too much, and therefore she left it out. 2) My preferred guess: DD used a muggle method to defeat Grindy. While it has been demonstrated that wizards can defend themselves from certain forms of muggle violence, and if injured but not instantly killed they can be brought back to life from just about any conventional injury if treatment is given quickly, the Secrecy Laws show that even before modern technology, wizards were afraid of concerted muggle action against them. They do get tired eventually, and there may not be enough Healers if there is mass injury. An unexpected physical attack would have been enough for DD to get the upper hand. The reason for not revealing that reason could be explained in-story as WW disdain for muggle methods. But an out-of-story reason is a bit of a plot hole in HPDH. While it would not occur to a pure wizard or maybe not even half-bloods, muggle-born wizards would almost certainly have thought of using a muggle Resistance methods as a surprise defense. Setting up a massive booby trap (high explosives, poison gas, etc.), and saying "Voldemort" before running like hell or wearing protection, would kill the hit squads; the evidence could be cleaned up before the bad guys knew what happened. And the purebloods might know that something was happening, but their arrogance would preclude them from considering muggle methods as a cause. Bart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bart at moosewise.com Sun Mar 16 15:14:57 2014 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 11:14:57 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron, the chess player... In-Reply-To: References: <52123D5B.5070602@moosewise.com> Message-ID: <5325BFF1.9000803@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192626 On 3/15/2014 8:23 PM, moony_loony at yahoo.com wrote: > Frankly the only character that shows some intelligence and cunning > throughout the seven books is Dumbledore (not counting intuitive > intelligence (Harry) or booksmarts (Hermione)). Otherwise all > characters seem to consist of dumb and dumber. Bart: Although he can be foolish occasionally, Snape has a LOT of intelligence and cunning; his ability to act as a double agent certainly shows that. Do not that skill in chess is not necessarily an indication of general intelligence, though. Bart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 13:09:27 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 06:09:27 -0700 Subject: Occlumency - REDUX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192627 I think you are wrong when you say that legilimency or occlumency are not a big deal in the wizarding world. Ron had no idea what it was and its not taught or even mentioned in the Hogwarts curriculum. Also you forget that Harry was to tell no one (besides his friends, who were to tell no one) about the Occlumency lessons. Legilimency is a gross infringment upon the privacy of a person and I would liken it to mental RAPE. The fact that he was to tell no-one is very telling, it must be forbidden the same as Dark Arts are forbidden by the ministry. Also you shouldn't forget that the people we know are able to perform Legilimency and Occlumency -- Voldemort, Snape and Dumbledore-- have all dabbled in the Dark Arts. While you are correct that Harry noticed something when legilimency was performed on him you should also not forget that he didn't really realize what was going on and never noticed anything wrong. Like Dumbledore said a true master of legilimency is able to disguise his doing--meaning the victim wouldn't notice! (On second thought I'm not really sure if Dumbledore was the one who said this). Also if Legilimency was legal in the WIzarding World the secrets of everyone wouldn't be safe either. Furthermore you shouldn't forget the Death Eater trials. They used Veritaserum and Legilimency is never mentioned. Plus if Legelimency was legal everyone would have to learn Occlumency and Harry wouldn't have to be taught by Snape. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bart at moosewise.com Sun Mar 16 15:17:06 2014 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 11:17:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5325C072.3030001@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192628 On 3/15/2014 7:59 PM, moony_loony at yahoo.com wrote: > Lily sacrificed herself in order to protect Harry. Because of this > sacrifice Voldemort was unable to kill Harry, the AK curse rebounded > and Voldemort's body was destroyed. > Recently I realized that there is someone else who sacrificed himself > to protect someone loved--I'm speaking of James. James sacrificed > himself to protect Lily and Harry. > What is the difference between James' sacrifice and the sacrifice of > Lily (and in book seven Harry)? Bart: Consider one of the major themes of the book. The difference was that, unlike virtually everybody else, Lily was given a choice. Bart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 16 17:01:24 2014 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 17:01:24 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/16/2014, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1394989284.19.29956.m5@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192629 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 16, 2014 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2014 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cresorchid at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 20:58:28 2014 From: cresorchid at gmail.com (Sandra Lynn) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 15:58:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: <5325C072.3030001@moosewise.com> References: <5325C072.3030001@moosewise.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192630 On 3/16/14, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > On 3/15/2014 7:59 PM, moony_loony at yahoo.com wrote: >> Lily sacrificed herself in order to protect Harry. Because of this >> sacrifice Voldemort was unable to kill Harry, the AK curse rebounded >> and Voldemort's body was destroyed. >> Recently I realized that there is someone else who sacrificed himself >> to protect someone loved--I'm speaking of James. James sacrificed >> himself to protect Lily and Harry. >> What is the difference between James' sacrifice and the sacrifice of >> Lily (and in book seven Harry)? > > Bart: > Consider one of the major themes of the book. The difference was that, > unlike virtually everybody else, Lily was given a choice. > > Bart > Crescent: In fact, I believe that Lily is the only one who was EVER given a choice-which is what made her dying a true sacrifice. Others died (like James), but simply before their loved ones-in an effort to save their loved ones. Thus, Harry is unique. Although it truly is guesswork what happened in the house. Harry is the only one who might remember that night-and he doesn't until he meets the dementors in his third year. However, everyone seems to know what happened due to Dumbledore's statements and journalism in Rita Skeeter's style. From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 12:53:37 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 05:53:37 -0700 Subject: The Overarching message (of the HP books) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192631 I learned from these books that people are incredibly naive and easy to manipulate. Case: Harry and Dumbledore. Further I learned that people are incredibly simpleminded and that even many adults still see the world in black and white. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 13:24:01 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 06:24:01 -0700 Subject: Harry, Horcruxes and Parseltongue In-Reply-To: <1313710762.16557.YahooMailNeo@web113919.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1313282204.48905.YahooMailNeo@web113910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1313690150.37768.YahooMailNeo@web113920.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1313710762.16557.YahooMailNeo@web113919.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192632 Why would he be glad to lose that ability? Parseltongue is not really useful, but still pretty cool. Of course there is some stigma on the ability, but this is only superstition. Maybe Harry simply abhors anything that links him to Voldemort? Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 13:31:20 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 06:31:20 -0700 Subject: Tom Riddle and history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192633 He was born 1926 and grew up in an orphanage during the Great Depression. He started school before WWII, 1938 and was in the orphanage in London when the bombings occurred. I wonder if JKRowling even realizes this? It explains a lot about Tom's character, though again I doubt that Rowling really internalized what this means for Tom's upbringing. Loony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moony_loony at yahoo.com Sun Mar 16 13:20:02 2014 From: moony_loony at yahoo.com (moony_loony at yahoo.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 06:20:02 -0700 Subject: The Nature of the Dark Mark In-Reply-To: <96cb8.6b725452.3bbc01fd@aol.com> References: <96cb8.6b725452.3bbc01fd@aol.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192634 I doubt that Hermione had the Dark Mark. While Polyjuice potion copies the person's looks, voice, i.e., it cannot copy magic. The Dark Mark is a magic that cannot be that easy to copy, otherwise the Order of the Phoenix would have used it to defeat Voldemort. I believe the same holds true for magic like metamorphmagus, animagus and parsletongue. Those are things a simple polyjuice potion can't copy. Moony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iam.kemper at gmail.com Sun Mar 16 22:36:56 2014 From: iam.kemper at gmail.com (iam.kemper at gmail.com) Date: 16 Mar 2014 15:36:56 -0700 Subject: Harry, Horcruxes and Parseltongue In-Reply-To: References: <1313282204.48905.YahooMailNeo@web113910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1313690150.37768.YahooMailNeo@web113920.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1313710762.16557.YahooMailNeo@web113919.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192635 Moony wrote : Why would he be glad to lose that ability? Parseltongue is not really useful, but still pretty cool. Of course there is some stigma on the ability, but this is only superstition. Maybe Harry simply abhors anything that links him to Voldemort? Kemper: I agree that Parseltongue is pretty cool tho I cannot think of a RL practicality. And your right, maybe Harry simply abhors any links/reminders to Voldemort or being his horcrux surprise. But also, who cares what an author says outside of the Canon? If it's not in the book or cannot be supported within the book, it didn't happen. She said Dumbledore was gay. The canon suggests or at the very least hints at that (well, in HBP and DH anyway.) She said some of the Slytherins students came back to fight against Voldemort at the Battle of Hogwarts. Nowhere in the text can you squint your eyes to make that happen. Kemper -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 05:09:34 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:09:34 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Nature of the Dark Mark In-Reply-To: References: <96cb8.6b725452.3bbc01fd@aol.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192636 Nobody has ever claimed that Hermione had the dark mark. . . Lynda On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:20 AM, wrote: > > > I doubt that Hermione had the Dark Mark. While Polyjuice potion copies the > person's looks, voice, i.e., it cannot copy magic. The Dark Mark is a magic > that cannot be that easy to copy, otherwise the Order of the Phoenix would > have used it to defeat Voldemort. I believe the same holds true for magic > like metamorphmagus, animagus and parsletongue. Those are things a simple > polyjuice potion can't copy. > > Moony > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 05:11:45 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:11:45 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Tom Riddle and history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192637 Why would she not have? She's the one who wrote the character, placed him in the setting he was born into, etc. Those things were done for a reason. To set him in a place to develop as he did. Lynda On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 6:31 AM, wrote: > > > He was born 1926 and grew up in an orphanage during the Great Depression. > He started school before WWII, 1938 and was in the orphanage in London when > the bombings occurred. I wonder if JKRowling even realizes this? > It explains a lot about Tom's character, though again I doubt that Rowling > really internalized what this means for Tom's upbringing. > > Loony > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 05:18:44 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:18:44 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which HP character scares you most? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192638 You see, statements like this one always surprise me, because I knew from the outset of the books that Dumbledore was incredibly manipulative. The first few paragraphs of SS told me that and I've never understood how it was that so many people missed those clues. Lynda On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:48 AM, wrote: > > > Dumbledore. He is by far the most cunning, manipulative and ruthless > character of the whole series. The most scary part is that you don't > realize it until much later. Frankly, he makes for a much better Slytherin > than Voldemort. > > Moony > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bart at moosewise.com Mon Mar 17 15:59:10 2014 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 11:59:10 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Nature of the Dark Mark In-Reply-To: References: <96cb8.6b725452.3bbc01fd@aol.com> Message-ID: <53271BCE.5080204@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192639 Moony: > > I doubt that Hermione had the Dark Mark. While Polyjuice potion > copies the person's looks, voice, i.e., it cannot copy magic. The > Dark Mark is a magic that cannot be that easy to copy, otherwise > the Order of the Phoenix would have used it to defeat Voldemort. I > believe the same holds true for magic like metamorphmagus, > animagus and parsletongue. Those are things a simple polyjuice > potion can't copy. > > Moony > Lynda: > > Nobody has ever claimed that Hermione had the dark mark. . . Bart: I think Moony is referring to when Hermione is doing her Bellatrix imitation. Bart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 17:13:25 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:13:25 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wand allegiance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192640 What makes you think Grindelwald was NOT the master of the Elder Wand. It seems to me from the text of the books that he was indeed, the master of it. Lynda On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:48 PM, wrote: > > > I can't really answer this question, it seems to me that Rowling has > simply failed to think this through. Frankly it makes no sense. In the > first place it was impossible for Dumbledore to gain allegiance of the > Elder Wand, since --as I understand it-- Grindlewald had not been master of > the Elder Wand either. So it would be impossible for Dumbledore to gain the > allegiance of the Elder Wand by defeating Grindelwald. > Simply put, this is just another plothole/inconsistency inside the book. > > Moony > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 17:14:06 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:14:06 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: It would have been nicer if Dudley were nicer to Harry. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192641 Well, that is the entire point, isn't it? On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > > > While I can agree that a large part of Dudley's behaviour can be > attributed to his upbrining, this does not excuse his actions. Everyone is > responsible for his own actions, though of course those actions may be > explained or reasoned. I do wish that Dudley had been less mean to Harry. I > don't talk about being nicer, being less mean would have sufficed. > > Moony > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 17:15:52 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:15:52 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Nature of the Dark Mark In-Reply-To: <53271BCE.5080204@moosewise.com> References: <96cb8.6b725452.3bbc01fd@aol.com> <53271BCE.5080204@moosewise.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192642 He might be. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > > Moony: > > > >> >> I doubt that Hermione had the Dark Mark. While Polyjuice potion copies >> the person's looks, voice, i.e., it cannot copy magic. The Dark Mark is a >> magic that cannot be that easy to copy, otherwise the Order of the Phoenix >> would have used it to defeat Voldemort. I believe the same holds true for >> magic like metamorphmagus, animagus and parsletongue. Those are things a >> simple polyjuice potion can't copy. >> >> Moony >> > > Lynda: > > Nobody has ever claimed that Hermione had the dark mark. . . > > > Bart: > I think Moony is referring to when Hermione is doing her Bellatrix > imitation. > > Bart > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From boris.baran at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 23:27:20 2014 From: boris.baran at gmail.com (Boris Baran) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:27:20 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <532784D8.6090008@gmail.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192643 moony wrote: Lily sacrificed herself in order to protect Harry. Because of this sacrifice Voldemort was unable to kill Harry, the AK curse rebounded and Voldemort's body was destroyed. Recently I realized that there is someone else who sacrificed himself to protect someone loved--I'm speaking of James. James sacrificed himself to protect Lily and Harry. What is the difference between James' sacrifice and the sacrifice of Lily (and in book seven Harry)? All three died to protect someone--they selflessly sacrificed themselves because of love, but only Lily's and Harry's sacrifice resulted in some sort of protection (Lily's sacrifice protected Harry and Harry's sacrifice protected the students and teachers in Hogwarts). Why? Where is the difference? There must have been others, too, that sacrificed themselves for their loved ones. Mothers like Lily that died to protect their children during the First Rise of Voldemort. How does this magic work and why can only some trigger the protection? Boris: There was no explanation in the books besides what Dumbledoof said about "teh power of love", which is quite strange, since with the Shit Eaters killing and torturing all over the UK, there is bound to be some parent, who tried to save her/his children at the cost of her/his own life. Boris Baran Skype: psycho_mantis87 skype:psycho_mantis87 Ceterum autem censeo 'Yahoo! neo' esse delendam. I know that I know nothing. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. The cake is a lie. Cast in the name of God, Ye (not) guilty. All your base are belong to us. You are on the way to destruction. You have no chance to survive make your time. Dropbox fanfic copy folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zp4t4e1i0cabar6/mXs8gCsERj https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zp4t4e1i0cabar6/mXs8gCsERj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ingridbirgitta at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 08:08:29 2014 From: ingridbirgitta at gmail.com (Birgitta Karlsson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:08:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: <532784D8.6090008@gmail.com> References: <532784D8.6090008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5327FEFD.3090600@googlemail.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192644 Boris Baran wrote: There was no explanation in the books besides what Dumbledoof said about "teh power of love", which is quite strange, since with the Shit Eaters killing and torturing all over the UK, there is bound to be some parent, who tried to save her/his children at the cost of her/his own life. Bridget: Sure there is. Voldemort gave Lily a choice, if she would just stand aside and watch while he killed her son then she would live (and he meant it too). But since she did what almost any mother would do, when faced with Voldemort trying to kill their child (I think Bellatrix would consider it an great honour if Voldemort would kill her child, should she have any), she tried to shield him and died instead. It's that choice that makes all the difference. Just a sacrifice is not enough. And I doubt Voldemort gave other parents a choice when he came to kill them. (I could maybe see a scenario where Voldemort would say that he would spare someones life if they would just let him kill their child, saying it but not meaning it, and then afterwards just kill the parents anyway.) /Birgitta -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Tue Mar 18 17:03:51 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 10:03:51 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: <5327FEFD.3090600@googlemail.com> References: <532784D8.6090008@gmail.com> <5327FEFD.3090600@googlemail.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192645 The power of love is the explanation. No need to over-think things here. Her message is extraordinarily simple. Lynda On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Birgitta Karlsson wrote: > > > Boris Baran wrote: > > There was no explanation in the books besides what Dumbledoof said about > "teh power of love", which is quite strange, since with the Shit Eaters > killing and torturing all over the UK, there is bound to be some parent, > who tried to save her/his children at the cost of her/his own life. > > > Bridget: > Sure there is. > > *Voldemort gave Lily a choice*, if she would just stand aside and watch > while he killed her son then she would live (*and he meant it too*). But > since she did what almost any mother would do, when faced with Voldemort > trying to kill their child (I think Bellatrix would consider it an great > honour if Voldemort would kill her child, should she have any), she tried > to shield him and died instead. > > *It's that choice that makes all the difference. Just a sacrifice is not > enough.* > > And I doubt Voldemort gave other parents a choice when he came to kill > them. (I could maybe see a scenario where Voldemort would say that he would > spare someones life if they would just let him kill their child, saying it > but not meaning it, and then afterwards just kill the parents anyway.) > > /Birgitta > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dunctonhams at yahoo.com Tue Mar 18 08:28:14 2014 From: dunctonhams at yahoo.com (Andrew Bryan) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 01:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: <532784D8.6090008@gmail.com> References: <532784D8.6090008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1395131294.21003.YahooMailNeo@web142401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192646 Thinking about what J Rowling has said about Lily having a choice and the intervention of Snape, I think this is the basic hypothesis. Voldemort decides to kill Harry - the threat to himself. In the process he realises that he will have to kill James and Lily, who will protect their son. Snape finds out about this and begs Voldemort to spare Lily, (crucial point), to which Voldemort agrees. Presumably not trusting Voldemort, Snape begs Dumbledore to protect them. He does, via the Fidelius charm. Pettigrew betrays the Potters to Voldemort. Voldemort arrives at Godric's Hollow. James rushes to his family's defense, ("Take Harry and go!"), without his wand, and is killed. Voldemort confronts Lily in an attempt to kill Harry. Crucial point - he offers to spare her, in exchange for a "direct shot" at her son - "Stand aside you silly girl!" This is the "choice" which J Rowling mentions and James does not have. Lily refuses to stand aside, and EXPLICITLY offers her life, (which Voldemort has agreed - with her and Snape - to spare if he can kill Harry), in exchange for Harry's. "Not Harry! Not Harry! Kill me instead!" (Can't remember exact wording - sorry). Voldemort loses patience and kills Lily - unleashing the protective charm she has (unknowingly?) placed on her son. Lily, alone of all the Avada Kedavra victims, was offered a choice between life and death and chose death for love of her son. Voldemort curses Harry and the rest, as they say, is history! The crucial point is that Lily was the only one of Voldemort's victims ever offered a choice of life and actively chose death, for that sake of another, (an incomprehensible action to Voldemort). That was what activated the charm, in my opinion. moony wrote: Lily sacrificed herself in order to protect Harry. Because of this sacrifice Voldemort was unable to kill Harry, the AK curse rebounded and Voldemort's body was destroyed. Recently I realized that there is someone else who sacrificed himself to protect someone loved--I'm speaking of James. James sacrificed himself to protect Lily and Harry. What is the difference between James' sacrifice and the sacrifice of Lily (and in book seven Harry)? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thedossetts at gmail.com Wed Mar 19 04:33:17 2014 From: thedossetts at gmail.com (Patricia Dossett) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:33:17 -0400 Subject: Lily's sacrifice and potection Message-ID: <582BC082-9036-4E74-A17A-ADF859683462@gmail.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192647 moony wrote: Lily sacrificed herself in order to protect Harry. Because of this sacrifice Voldemort was unable to kill Harry, the AK curse rebounded and Voldemort's body was destroyed. Recently I realized that there is someone else who sacrificed himself to protect someone loved--I'm speaking of James. James sacrificed himself to protect Lily and Harry. What is the difference between James' sacrifice and the sacrifice of Lily (and in book seven Harry)? All three died to protect someone--they selflessly sacrificed themselves because of love, but only Lily's and Harry's sacrifice resulted in some sort of protection (Lily's sacrifice protected Harry and Harry's sacrifice protected the students and teachers in Hogwarts). Why? Where is the difference? There must have been others, too, that sacrificed themselves for their loved ones. Mothers like Lily that died to protect their children during the First Rise of Voldemort. How does this magic work and why can only some trigger the protection? Boris: There was no explanation in the books besides what Dumbledoof said about "teh power of love", which is quite strange, since with the Shit Eaters killing and torturing all over the UK, there is bound to be some parent, who tried to save her/his children at the cost of her/his own life. Boris Baran Skype: psycho_mantis87 skype:psycho_mantis87 Ceterum autem censeo 'Yahoo! neo' esse delendam. I know that I know nothing. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. The cake is a lie. Cast in the name of God, Ye (not) guilty. All your base are belong to us. You are on the way to destruction. You have no chance to survive make your time. Dropbox fanfic copy folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zp4t4e1i0cabar6/mXs8gCsERjhttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/zp4t4e1i0cabar6/mXs8gCsERj Pat: I thought that the difference in Harry?s case was that Dumbledore actually did a charm which sealed the protection onto Harry, as long as he abided by the terms of the charm (i.e. calling #4 Privet Drive his home, and spending a certain amount of time there each summer. But the actual protection, which was there because of Lily?s sacrifice, was because of DD?s charm. I?m sure that many parents did die protecting their children, but there actually was a complex set of requirements (Lily offering herself instead of Harry, Voldie accepting her offer but then also trying to kill Harry, and then the charm) that needed to be in place for the charm to work. As far as we know, there is no other case where all the requirements were met. Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zanooda2 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 21 23:44:28 2014 From: zanooda2 at yahoo.com (zanooda2 at yahoo.com) Date: 21 Mar 2014 16:44:28 -0700 Subject: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192648 Grindelwald did defeat Gregorovich though, by stunning him ))). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 17:22:08 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 10:22:08 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192649 Exactly. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:44 PM, wrote: > > > Grindelwald did defeat Gregorovich though, by stunning him ))). > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bart at moosewise.com Sat Mar 22 17:57:26 2014 From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:57:26 -0400 Subject: Posting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <532DCF06.5080602@moosewise.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192650 Bart: I have noticed that the list elves have been a bit slack about enforcing the quoting rules, but as I think that they are a great idea (and have introduced them to other groups which get long threads), I'd like to recommend that some of the more active newcomers read them. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/HPforGrownups/files/Admin_Files/HBF_20_Mar_2011 Bart From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sun Mar 23 17:01:22 2014 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 23 Mar 2014 17:01:22 -0000 Subject: Weekly Chat, 3/23/2014, 1:00 pm Message-ID: <1395594082.11.65057.m13@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 192651 Reminder from: HPforGrownups Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/cal Weekly Chat Sunday March 23, 2014 1:00 pm - 2:00 pm (GMT-06.00) Central Time (US & Canada) Location: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour. To get to the HPfGU room follow this link: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574 Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want to be called. Enter the password: hpfguchat Click "Join Chat" on the lower right. Chat start times: 11 am Pacific US 12 noon Mountain US 1 pm Central US 2 pm Eastern US 7 pm UK All Rights Reserved Copyright 2014 Yahoo! Inc. http://www.yahoo.com Privacy: http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us Terms: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cmartin4921 at gmail.com Sun Mar 23 17:49:16 2014 From: cmartin4921 at gmail.com (cmartin4921 at gmail.com) Date: 23 Mar 2014 10:49:16 -0700 Subject: Lily's sacrifice and potection In-Reply-To: <582BC082-9036-4E74-A17A-ADF859683462@gmail.com> References: <582BC082-9036-4E74-A17A-ADF859683462@gmail.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192652 The difference was that Lilly didn't have to die. James was going to be killed no matter what so his sacrifice wasn't the same. Lilly had the chance to "step aside". The other people DE were attacking didn't have this option. While I'm sure there were other similar intentions, because LV wasn't going to spare anybody the circumstances were not there for blood magic's protection. -Lottie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cmartin4921 at gmail.com Sun Mar 23 20:09:04 2014 From: cmartin4921 at gmail.com (cmartin4921 at gmail.com) Date: 23 Mar 2014 13:09:04 -0700 Subject: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: <532DCF06.5080602@moosewise.com> References: <532DCF06.5080602@moosewise.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192653 > Bart: > Otherwise Dumbledore might not have been the master of the elder wand at all (which would explain why he didn't defeat Voldemort despite being 'the strongest wizard AND in possession of the Elder wand in the Battle inside the Ministry, book five). Lottie: I always thought Dumbledore could defeat LV if he truly wanted to but he would have to use dark magic or something morally corrupt. Doesn't McGonagall say something in a conversation with DD, about who was more powerful and she says DD was "too noble to use the powers LV has." I'm not sure but my thoughts were DD could physically defeat him but the cost would be too high and DD thought he would just be the next Dark Lord. (Because DD cannot be trusted with power.) Lottie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynde4 at gmail.com Mon Mar 24 01:20:03 2014 From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 18:20:03 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore_Master of the Elder Wand? In-Reply-To: References: <532DCF06.5080602@moosewise.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 192654 She did. Lynda On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM, wrote: > > > > Bart: > > Otherwise Dumbledore might not have been the master of the elder wand at > all (which would explain why he didn't defeat Voldemort despite being 'the > strongest wizard AND in possession of the Elder wand in the Battle inside > the Ministry, book five). > > > Lottie: > I always thought Dumbledore could defeat LV if he truly wanted to but he > would have to use dark magic or something morally corrupt. Doesn't > McGonagall say something in a conversation with DD, about who was more > powerful and she says DD was "too noble to use the powers LV has." I'm not > sure but my thoughts were DD could physically defeat him but the cost would > be too high and DD thought he would just be the next Dark Lord. (Because DD > cannot be trusted with power.) > > Lottie > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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