From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com  Sun Dec  6 17:55:07 2015
From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 6 Dec 2015 17:55:07 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, Sunday, 06 December 2015 
Message-ID: <1449424507.12.33558.m14@yahoogroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192856



Weekly Chat reminder
When: Sunday, 06 December 2015 07:00 PM to 08:00 PM
    (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London

Where: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
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Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

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From lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  2 01:52:19 2015
From: lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com (lui)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 01:52:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1038790914.14426816.1449021139384.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192857

I understand you. I've read the series countless times and the feeling doesn't ever go away.
 Others have already recommended the series made by G.N. Lippert and little_bird.
 I would also like to recommend Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Future past, which can be found on Ff.net
 


 Regards,
 Lui Ronquillo-Hikong
 +(02) 825-4774
 +(63)977-710-1212
 "The reward for work well done is the opportunity to do more." - Jonas Salk
 

 


 



 
 On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net mailto:klewellen at shellworld.net [HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com mailto:HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
   Hi again, Where does one find this, of quality I mean? I just finished the last book...and frankly want to read the whole thing all over again, smiles! Especially because I know there are details I might have missed. Still I am equally interested if anyone has sought to tell the stories that I really really really wish could get told. More on that in a moment. Where do I find the goodies? Karen
 
 
 
 




 
 

 
 



 
 



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From klewellen at shellworld.net  Sun Dec  6 21:38:25 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 16:38:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192858

Hi Bruce, are you feeling noble enough to write me privately about one of these? I am running into an issue, and would appreciate some help. Thanks, to you and everyone with ideas. Kare 


> On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: > The "Danger Universe" series > The Psychic Serpent Trilogy > > > Anything by old-crow, White Squirrel, Seel'vor, DobbyElflord, nonjon, > little0bird or several others. This is just off the top of my head. > > 



From bpmull at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 05:27:53 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2015 07:27:53 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net> <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com> <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192859

Here is the "Destinies" series by DobbyElfLord. Let me know if you need any others. Most of these are available on fanfiction.net 


Bruce


On 2015-12-06 23:38, Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net [HPforGrownups] wrote: > > Hi Bruce, are you feeling noble enough to write me privately about one > of these? I am running into an issue, and would appreciate some help. > Thanks, to you and everyone with ideas. Kare > > 



From klewellen at shellworld.net  Fri Dec 11 03:53:46 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:53:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
 <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192860

Thanks beyond measure. For those of you who read these, I am guessing most respect Rowling's established material on the characters? At least the good ones do I hope lol. Thanks again, Kare 


On Tue, 8 Dec 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: > Here is the "Destinies" series by DobbyElfLord. Let me know if you need any others. Most of these are available on fanfiction.net > > > Bruce > > >



From margdean56 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 20:52:38 2015
From: margdean56 at gmail.com (Margaret Dean)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 13:52:38 -0700
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
	<CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
	<56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192861

This one's my favorite:

<https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2899679/1/To-Face-the-Wolf>

...but then, I was a Tolkien fan long before HP was drawn or thought of,
and this pairs up my favorite HP book (Prisoner of Azkaban) with one of my
favorite Tolkien characters.  And it's a great story.


--Margaret Dean
  <margdean56 at gmail.com>



On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net
[HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks beyond measure. For those of you who read these, I am guessing most
> respect Rowling's established material on the characters? At least the good
> ones do I hope lol. Thanks again, Kare
>
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote:
> > Here is the "Destinies" series by DobbyElfLord. Let me know if you need
> any others. Most of these are available on fanfiction.net > > > Bruce > >
> >
> 
>
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From SlightlyCashews at aol.com  Sun Dec 13 03:39:52 2015
From: SlightlyCashews at aol.com (SlightlyCashews at aol.com)
Date: 12 Dec 2015 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <1201845426.11448842.1448805156601.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
	<1201845426.11448842.1448805156601.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <n4ipa8+1ecg63l@YahooGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192862

I own an archive at The WIKTT Archives at themasque.net. You're welcome to take a peek there. 

 benevolntgoddess1 

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From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com  Sun Dec 13 17:55:16 2015
From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 13 Dec 2015 17:55:16 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, Sunday, 13 December 2015 
Message-ID: <1450029316.12.22391.m9@yahoogroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192863



Weekly Chat reminder
When: Sunday, 13 December 2015 07:00 PM to 08:00 PM
    (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London

Where: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK

From: HPforGrownups  Calendar

Privacy:
http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms:
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From kennyg1864 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 17:59:53 2015
From: kennyg1864 at yahoo.com (kennyg1864 at yahoo.com)
Date: 17 Dec 2015 09:59:53 -0800
Subject: Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
Message-ID: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192864

(apologies in advance if this has been asked/covered before)
 

 Initially in HP7 we have "Dumbledore was actually Bad", as revealed by Snape's line "you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter"
 

 Plus we have the enchanted Golden Snitch that opens "only at the close".  I.e., Harry himself must be convinced that he is about to die, and his death is necessary to truly destroy Voldemort (to kill the Horcrux within Harry).  Admittedly this is just a plot device to show us Harry's state of mind--revealing the Resurrection Stone isn't necessary to destroy Voldemort.
 

 BUT...
 

 Harry is only mostly dead.  The Horcrux is gone (left under a bench at King's Cross), but Harry chooses to not take the train "On".
 

 Did Dumbledore know that Harry would (might) survive the Killing Curse?  Did he know (suspect) that the Curse would be partially absorbed by the Horcrux within?  
 

 Perhaps he didn't confide his knowledge/suspicion to Snape, because (a) he didn't know for sure or (b) maybe it was integral to the removal of the Horcrux that Harry believe he would die.
 

 Guesses/thoughts?
 

 kennyg1864 

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From klewellen at shellworld.net  Fri Dec 18 03:36:40 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:36:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com>
References: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172227310.23958@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192865

Hi, Honestly? I may differ on a couple of points. first I feel the Resurrection stone is very necessary. Its gifts fortify Harry in his willingness to sacrifice. It is not just about dying, it is his willingness to sacrifice himself. Meeting the reflections of others who have done the same helps him take the last step in a state of peace so to speak. About what is under that bench at Kings cross? I thought it was Voldemort, that the outcome was frozen for Harry's decision so to speak. It is why, or so I felt, Professor D told Harry that Voldemort would be more afraid when they returned. Interested in thoughts as well. Thanks for your question! Kare 


> On Thu, 17 Dec 2015, kennyg1864 at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: > (apologies in advance if this has been asked/covered before) > > > Initially in HP7 we have "Dumbledore was actually Bad", as revealed by Snape's line "you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter" > > > Plus we have the enchanted Golden Snitch that opens "only at the close". I.e., Harry himself must be convinced that he is about to die, and his death is necessary to truly destroy Voldemort (to kill the Horcrux within Harry). Admittedly this is just a plot device to show us Harry's state of mind--revealing the Resurrection Stone isn't necessary to destroy VoldemortA. > > > BUT... > > > Harry is only mostly dead. The Horcrux is gone (left under a bench at King's Cross), but Harry chooses to not take the train "On". > > > Did Dumbledore know that Harry would (might) survive the Killing Curse? Did he know (suspect) that the Curse would be partially absorbed by the Horcrux within? > > > Perhaps he didn't confide his knowledge/suspicion to Snape, because (a) he didn't know for sure or (b) maybe it was integral to the removal of the Horcrux that Harry believe he would die. > > > Guesses/thoughts? > > > kennyg1864 > >



From klewellen at shellworld.net  Fri Dec 18 03:41:36 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 22:41:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
 <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172238340.23958@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192866

Well that looks like fun. I am presently reading...okay inhaling the dangerous universe series. I am frankly stunned at how really good the books are actually. A strong testament to how rich Rowling's characters are that one can slightly re-imagine some details, and create an alternative worthy of her storytelling. Kare 


> On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Margaret Dean margdean56 at gmail.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: > This one's my favorite: > > <https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2899679/1/To-Face-the-Wolf> > > ...but then, I was a Tolkien fan long before HP was drawn or thought of, > and this pairs up my favorite HP book (Prisoner of Azkaban) with one of my > favorite Tolkien characters. And it's a great story. > > > --Margaret Dean > 



From bart at moosewise.com  Sat Dec 19 00:38:48 2015
From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 19:38:48 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com>
References: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <5674A718.70006@moosewise.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192867

kennyg1864:
> Did Dumbledore know that Harry would (might) survive the Killing 
> Curse?  Did he know (suspect) that the Curse would be partially 
> absorbed by the Horcrux within? 
Bart:
My take on it is based on the following real world phenomenon: In 
multi-car accidents involving drunken driving, the drunk driver is often 
the least injured. The reason for this is that everybody else's muscles 
tighten in anticipation of the injury, while the drunk driver is more 
relaxed, and his body is able to "roll with the blow" so to speak.

In the case of Harry, the impression I got was that the Horcrux would 
get the brunt of the death spell, but ONLY if Harry left himself 
entirely open to it. If Harry had any hint he was not going to die, he 
would have tensed up, and left himself open to actual death.

     Bart
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From bpmull at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 18 16:07:57 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:07:57 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172238340.23958@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net> <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com> <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net> <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net> <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172238340.23958@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <56742F5D.5020503@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192868

I just converted the DAYDverse (Dumbledore's Army and the Year of 
Darkness) series to PDF, but haven't read it yet. I found it referenced 
on a site that said it was one of the 20 or 21 series one must read 
before you die. Whatever that means. I assume it means that it is good, 
but I'll find that out soon.


On 2015-12-18 05:41, Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net 
[HPforGrownups] wrote:
>
> Well that looks like fun. I am presently reading...okay inhaling the 
> dangerous universe series. I am frankly stunned at how really good the 
> books are actually. A strong testament to how rich Rowling's 
> characters are that one can slightly re-imagine some details, and 
> create an alternative worthy of her storytelling. Kare
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2015, Margaret Dean margdean56 at gmail.com 
> [HPforGrownups] wrote: > This one's my favorite: > > 
> <https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2899679/1/To-Face-the-Wolf> > > ...but 
> then, I was a Tolkien fan long before HP was drawn or thought of, > 
> and this pairs up my favorite HP book (Prisoner of Azkaban) with one 
> of my > favorite Tolkien characters. And it's a great story. > > > 
> --Margaret Dean >
>
> 


-- 
Dr Bruce Philip Mull
Prof Mathematics
Prof Computer Science
Dean of Information Technology


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From klewellen at shellworld.net  Sat Dec 19 03:46:11 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 22:46:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <56742F5D.5020503@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
 <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172238340.23958@server2.shellworld.net> <56742F5D.5020503@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512182243370.28397@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192869

Indeed? Is Daydverse the author in this case? Interestingly enough I wonder what Rowling thinks about some of these? the ones that truly do her proud I mean.  Kare


> On Fri, 18 Dec 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: > I just converted the DAYDverse (Dumbledore's Army and the Year of > Darkness) series to PDF, but haven't read it yet. I found it referenced > on a site that said it was one of the 20 or 21 series one must read > before you die. Whatever that means. I assume it means that it is good, > but I'll find that out soon. 



From bpmull at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 06:17:01 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 08:17:01 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512182243370.28397@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net> <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com> <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net> <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net> <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172238340.23958@server2.shellworld.net> <56742F5D.5020503@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512182243370.28397@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <5674F65D.5000500@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192870

The author is Thanfiction. DAYD = _D_umbledore's _A_rmy and the _Y_ear 
of _D_arkness. It's on "Archive of our Own". Small letters, no spaces, 
dot org.


On 2015-12-19 05:46, Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net 
[HPforGrownups] wrote:
>
> Indeed? Is Daydverse the author in this case? Interestingly enough I 
> wonder what Rowling thinks about some of these? the ones that truly do 
> her proud I mean. Kare
>
> > On Fri, 18 Dec 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] 
> wrote: > I just converted the DAYDverse (Dumbledore's Army and the 
> Year of > Darkness) series to PDF, but haven't read it yet. I found it 
> referenced > on a site that said it was one of the 20 or 21 series one 
> must read > before you die. Whatever that means. I assume it means 
> that it is good, > but I'll find that out soon.
>
> 


-- 
Dr Bruce Philip Mull
Prof Mathematics
Prof Computer Science
Dean of Information Technology


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From bpmull at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 06:22:46 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 08:22:46 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <5674A718.70006@moosewise.com>
References: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com> <5674A718.70006@moosewise.com>
Message-ID: <5674F7B6.10708@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192871

Bruce:
You're probably right as the original survival was because of a pure sacrifice. However, this does not mean that Dumbledore was anything but a manipulative bastard who often withheld knowledge that was needed by others to make proper decisions. Neither do I feel that he redeemed himself.
 
 > Bart wrote:
 > My take on it is based on the following real world phenomenon: In multi-car accidents involving 
> drunken driving, the drunk driver is often the least injured. The reason for this is that everybody 
> else's muscles tighten in anticipation of the injury, while the drunk driver is more relaxed, and his 
> body is able to "roll with the blow" so to speak. 
 
 
 
 
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From klewellen at shellworld.net  Sun Dec 20 01:19:52 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 20:19:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <5674F7B6.10708@yahoo.com>
References: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com> <5674A718.70006@moosewise.com>
 <5674F7B6.10708@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192014150.21969@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192872

> Bruce: 
> You're probably right as the original survival was because of a pure sacrifice. However, this 
> does not mean that Dumbledore was anything but a manipulative bastard who often withheld 
> knowledge that was needed by others to make proper decisions. Neither do I feel that he 
> redeemed himself. 




Karen: 
I feel Dumbledore would share your opinion, Bruce. He tells Harry that he considers Harry to be the better man in part because Harry has managed with his integrity intact. Equally I feel all his tears from his portrait are both relief and remorse. Just my view however. 



From klewellen at shellworld.net  Sun Dec 20 01:14:03 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 20:14:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <5674F65D.5000500@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511282258350.25800@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAPyU+0NygG6Y5Fpp4NujgGFVXgF3SSSK3mXiQiyLYwixbuhNsQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <565C28C0.5020206@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512061636080.5290@server2.shellworld.net>
 <56666A59.9090906@yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512102252170.27566@server2.shellworld.net>
 <CAD2gbLgp-=Gf1H06yvpGDaGGaHFyOp8cdn9REHnTqrLm3tUL2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512172238340.23958@server2.shellworld.net> <56742F5D.5020503@yahoo.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512182243370.28397@server2.shellworld.net> <5674F65D.5000500@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192011290.21969@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192873

Hi Bruce, sounds terrific. I have thanked you privately for your resources, and now shower you with appreciation on list. The pdf book copies you shared are absolutely perfect for me! If you want to share your take after reading these new ones, and the list mods do not mind, others might welcome a review. Cheers, Kare 


> On Sat, 19 Dec 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: > The author is Thanfiction. DAYD = _D_umbledore's _A_rmy and the _Y_ear > of _D_arkness. It's on "Archive of our Own". Small letters, no spaces, > dot org. > > > 



From lynde4 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 07:14:36 2015
From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 23:14:36 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192014150.21969@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <n4ut6p+vmko24@YahooGroups.com>
	<5674A718.70006@moosewise.com>
	<5674F7B6.10708@yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192014150.21969@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192874

My answer is that yes, DD redeemed himself, because that was the whole
reason for his wanting to believe the best of everyone. Of course, I also
realized exactly how manipulative he was from the beginning of the series.
Come on, folks, he sends Harry to live with muggles, sets Snape up as his
ultimate double agent and maneuvers everything around from the beginning of
the story. So yes, he was manipulative. For the greater good. Does that
make it right? No. Not necessarily. Did it make it necessary? To defeat the
greatest evil the WW had yet encountered, maybe so.


Lynda


On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 5:19 PM, Karen Lewellen klewellen at shellworld.net
[HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:


>
>
> > Bruce:
> > You're probably right as the original survival was because of a pure
> sacrifice. However, this
> > does not mean that Dumbledore was anything but a manipulative bastard
> who often withheld
> > knowledge that was needed by others to make proper decisions. Neither do
> I feel that he
> > redeemed himself.
>
> Karen:
> I feel Dumbledore would share your opinion, Bruce. He tells Harry that he
> considers Harry to be the better man in part because Harry has managed with
> his integrity intact. Equally I feel all his tears from his portrait are
> both relief and remorse. Just my view however.
>
>
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From kat7555 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 09:05:11 2015
From: kat7555 at yahoo.com (kathy kulesza)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 09:05:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192875

I don't think he redeemed himself because he never apologized to Harry for everything he put him through. Dumbledore never should have left Harry with the abusive Dursleys He was fortunate Harry didn't wind up like Tom Riddle after living with them. He let Umbridge abuse him and managed to send away anyone who could have been a source of support for Harry especially Lupin and Sirius.
 kat7555


 > On Sunday, December 20, 2015 2:14 AM, "Lynda Cordova lynde4 at gmail.com 
> [HPforGrownups]" wrote:

> My answer is that yes, DD redeemed himself, because that was the whole reason for his wanting to believe the best of everyone. Of course, I also realized exactly how manipulative he was from the beginning of the series. Come on, folks, he sends Harry to live with muggles, sets Snape up as his ultimate double agent and maneuvers everything around from the beginning of the story. So yes, he was manipulative. For the greater good. Does that make it right? No. Not necessarily. Did it make it necessary? To defeat the greatest evil the WW had yet encountered, maybe so.
 

Lynda

 







 
 
 




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From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com  Sun Dec 20 17:55:15 2015
From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 20 Dec 2015 17:55:15 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, Sunday, 20 December 2015 
Message-ID: <1450634115.65.27670.m12@yahoogroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192876



Weekly Chat reminder
When: Sunday, 20 December 2015 07:00 PM to 08:00 PM
    (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London

Where: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
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From: HPforGrownups  Calendar

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From lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 01:05:46 2015
From: lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com (lui)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 01:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192011290.21969@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192011290.21969@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <1908763915.1504520.1450659946743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192877

Hi Bruce! If its okay with you, I'd like a peek at these so called "resources". :) And I will shamelessly bribe you with access to my Box account full of ebooks. 
 
 

 Regards, 
 Lui
 
 > On Sat, 19 Dec 2015, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: 
> The author is Thanfiction. DAYD = _D_umbledore's _A_rmy and the _Y_ear 
> of _D_arkness. It's on "Archive of our Own". Small letters, no spaces, 
> dot org. > > > 
 
 
 

 
 



 
 
 



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From bpmull at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 05:48:18 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 07:48:18 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <1908763915.1504520.1450659946743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192011290.21969@server2.shellworld.net> <1908763915.1504520.1450659946743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5678E422.2060200@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192878

Bruce:
 I print pages as pdf and then use Acrobat to combine them. At archiveofourown org you can save the whole story/book as pdf without the need for Acrobat, or as epub or mobi. If I get a format I cannot read then I use calibre to convert it to something I can read.
 

 > On 2015-12-21 03:05, lui lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com mailto:lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote:
 
   Hi Bruce! If its okay with you, I'd like a peek at these so called "resources". :) And I will shamelessly bribe you with access to my Box account full of ebooks. 
 
 
 Regards, 
 Lui
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
Dr Bruce Philip Mull
Prof Mathematics
Prof Computer Science
Dean of Information Technology 
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From cresorchid at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 13:45:21 2015
From: cresorchid at gmail.com (Sandra Lynn)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 07:45:21 -0600
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <5678E422.2060200@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192011290.21969@server2.shellworld.net>
	<1908763915.1504520.1450659946743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5678E422.2060200@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPyU+0O5kBVg2DhYOodquep1tVUVzrfwsj0urt3oBVhK-8K0=A@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192879

I have a question for someone who has used and downloaded the stories on
that list of 21 stories everyone should read before they die. There were a
couple that were pdf's chapter by chapter. How do you download them and put
them together as one story???

Crescent

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 11:48 PM, Bruce P Mull bpmull at yahoo.com
[HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Bruce:
> I print pages as pdf and then use Acrobat to combine them. At
> archiveofourown org you can save the whole story/book as pdf without the
> need for Acrobat, or as epub or mobi. If I get a format I cannot read then
> I use calibre to convert it to something I can read.
>
>
> > On 2015-12-21 03:05, lui lui_rhys_01 at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bruce! If its okay with you, I'd like a peek at these so called
> "resources". :) And I will shamelessly bribe you with access to my Box
> account full of ebooks.
>
> Regards,
> Lui
>
>
> --
> Dr Bruce Philip Mull
> Prof Mathematics
> Prof Computer Science
> Dean of Information Technology
>
> 
>
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From foxmoth at qnet.com  Thu Dec 24 18:51:31 2015
From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com)
Date: 24 Dec 2015 10:51:31 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192880

Commenting generally on this thread:
 

Harry recognizes and remembers Dumbledore (and Snape!) as a force for good -- if that's not redemption, what is?  

 But I don't think any of the characters redeem themselves, if you mean the sort of episode where a character who has acted badly suddenly sees the light, proves it by showing up to rescue Our Heroes in the nick of time, and is thereafter  a good guy through and through.
 

 I don't think you can redeem *yourself* in the Potterverse. It takes a higher power, which may come in a guise you find hard to accept and may consider you worth saving for reasons that  appear self-serving. Above all it takes *time*. Snape changed sides and Dumbledore gave up his ambition to dominate the Muggle world, but they hardly seemed redeemed at that moment. 
 

 

 As to whether it was fair to say that Harry was raised like a pig for slaughter, I don't think so. Though it's never explicitly stated, the "gleam of triumph" in Book Four suggests that among Dumbledore's many schemes was a plan to save Harry by nudging Voldemort towards using Harry's blood in his resurrection, thus keeping Lily's protection in place. 
 

 Dumbledore does not show as much courage as Snape, but consider that if he could be overthrown by the likes of Draco Malfoy, then he was in peril every time he did battle for Harry--which he never hesitated to do. 
 

 Pippin
 

 

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From lynde4 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 19:08:25 2015
From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 11:08:25 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAAVn2iPeRFG6OfdvMSNX52OY5zE1zwZp3zMbgP4tyG8jCGeF9w@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192881

Oh, I beg to differ. He really did, if not in words, then in actions.


Lynda


On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 1:05 AM, kathy kulesza kat7555 at yahoo.com
[HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:


>
>
> I don't think he redeemed himself because he never apologized to Harry for
> everything he put him through. Dumbledore never should have left Harry with
> the abusive Dursleys He was fortunate Harry didn't wind up like Tom Riddle
> after living with them. He let Umbridge abuse him and managed to send away
> anyone who could have been a source of support for Harry especially Lupin
> and Sirius.
> kat7555
>
> > On Sunday, December 20, 2015 2:14 AM, "Lynda Cordova lynde4 at gmail.com
> > [HPforGrownups]" wrote:
> > My answer is that yes, DD redeemed himself, because that was the whole
> reason for his wanting to believe the best of everyone. Of course, I also
> realized exactly how manipulative he was from the beginning of the series.
> Come on, folks, he sends Harry to live with muggles, sets Snape up as his
> ultimate double agent and maneuvers everything around from the beginning of
> the story. So yes, he was manipulative. For the greater good. Does that
> make it right? No. Not necessarily. Did it make it necessary? To defeat the
> greatest evil the WW had yet encountered, maybe so.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
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From lynde4 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 19:10:35 2015
From: lynde4 at gmail.com (Lynda Cordova)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 11:10:35 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAAVn2iM9qeSVtXRN_Y29gDfXKVaQJGDkBoAEQ10-4zr-9KFohA@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192882

I was going to mention this myself. The characters don't so much redeem
themselves as they are redeemed. It's a very Christian concept. We do not
redeem ourselves. We are redeemed by another.


Lynda


On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 10:51 AM, foxmoth at qnet.com [HPforGrownups] <
HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:


>
>
> Commenting generally on this thread:
>
> Harry recognizes and remembers Dumbledore (and Snape!) as a force for good
> -- if that's not redemption, what is?
>
> But I don't think any of the characters redeem themselves, if you mean the
> sort of episode where a character who has acted badly suddenly sees the
> light, proves it by showing up to rescue Our Heroes in the nick of time,
> and is thereafter  a good guy through and through.

>
> I don't think you can redeem *yourself* in the Potterverse. It takes a

> higher power, which may come in a guise you find hard to accept and may
> consider you worth saving for reasons that  appear self-serving. Above all
> it takes *time*. Snape changed sides and Dumbledore gave up his ambition to
> dominate the Muggle world, but they hardly seemed redeemed at that moment.
>
>
> As to whether it was fair to say that Harry was raised like a pig for
> slaughter, I don't think so. Though it's never explicitly stated, the
> "gleam of triumph" in Book Four suggests that among Dumbledore's many
> schemes was a plan to save Harry by nudging Voldemort towards using Harry's
> blood in his resurrection, thus keeping Lily's protection in place.
>
> Dumbledore does not show as much courage as Snape, but consider that if he
> could be overthrown by the likes of Draco Malfoy, then he was in peril
> every time he did battle for Harry--which he never hesitated to do.
>
> Pippin
>
>
>
>
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From frogcreekwoods at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 02:19:31 2015
From: frogcreekwoods at gmail.com (Ellie NC)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 21:19:31 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com> <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <E988DF6C-86DE-4EE1-9684-509792A5ED12@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192883

This is a really interesting conversation. I never thought about some of these issues before, or that anyone thought differently about them than me,  so thanks for the discussion!


I never before considered Dumbledore in need of redemption. He was in an impossible situation from the moment Voldemort cursed Harry. He had no choice at all but to send Harry to the Dursleys. It was the only way to give him as much protection as possible. That protection saved Harry countless times. I don't think he was at any fault there. By the contrary, he made the very difficult decision to do what was best for Harry rather than what would have made him happy. That is the hardest type of decision for a parent or parent figure to make for their child.


Voldemort doomed Harry to his fate, not Dumbledore. DD could only do his best to find out as much info about Tom Riddle's life and where/what the other horcruxes could be to help Harry only the only possible path that would give Harry and the world final and lasting freedom from Voldemort.  Well, at least we hope, we will have to see what new canon the play will bring us next summer.


Just a few thoughts on the subject...


Sara


> On Dec 24, 2015, at 1:51 PM, foxmoth at qnet.com [HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Commenting generally on this thread:
>
> Harry recognizes and remembers Dumbledore (and Snape!) as a force for good -- if that's not redemption, what is?
>
> But I don't think any of the characters redeem themselves, if you mean the sort of episode where a character who has acted badly suddenly sees the light, proves it by showing up to rescue Our Heroes in the nick of time, and is thereafter  a good guy through and through.
>
> I don't think you can redeem *yourself* in the Potterverse. It takes a higher power, which may come in a guise you find hard to accept and may consider you worth saving for reasons that  appear self-serving. Above all it takes *time*. Snape changed sides and Dumbledore gave up his ambition to dominate the Muggle world, but they hardly seemed redeemed at that moment.
>
>
> As to whether it was fair to say that Harry was raised like a pig for slaughter, I don't think so. Though it's never explicitly stated, the "gleam of triumph" in Book Four suggests that among Dumbledore's many schemes was a plan to save Harry by nudging Voldemort towards using Harry's blood in his resurrection, thus keeping Lily's protection in place.
>
> Dumbledore does not show as much courage as Snape, but consider that if he could be overthrown by the likes of Draco Malfoy, then he was in peril every time he did battle for Harry--which he never hesitated to do.
>
> Pippin
>
>
>
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From sherriola at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 22:00:26 2015
From: sherriola at gmail.com (Sherry Gomes)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 15:00:26 -0700
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <E988DF6C-86DE-4EE1-9684-509792A5ED12@gmail.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com> <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com> <E988DF6C-86DE-4EE1-9684-509792A5ED12@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04d501d13f5f$a9a0b660$fce22320$@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192884

Sara Wrote:

 

I never before considered Dumbledore in need of redemption. He was in an impossible situation from the moment Voldemort cursed Harry. He had no choice at all but to send Harry to the Dursleys. It was the only way to give him as much protection as possible. That protection saved Harry countless times. I don't think he was at any fault there. By the contrary, he made the very difficult decision to do what was best for Harry rather than what would have made him happy. That is the hardest type of decision for a parent or parent figure to make for their child.

 

 

Sherry now:

 

I disagree. I loved Dumbledore till about book five, and by the end of DH I despised him. I don?t think he was bad, but good people who are willing to sacrifice anyone or anything in the accomplishing of their goal, don?t impress me. Much as I dislike Snape, I agree that Dumbledore raised Harry to be like a pig for slaughter, or however Snape said it. He placed Harry in a situation where he was unloved for sixteen miserable years. He was physically, emotionally and verbally abused. In the real world, if Child Protective services saw a family lock a child in his room and put bars on his window, they?d take that child away and lock up the people doing it to him. Dudley routinely beat up Harry, and his parents never stopped it. In book six, Harry thinks that experience had taught him to stay out of the reach of Vernon?s arm. They starved him, not giving him enough food. That was supposedly a safe environment. I don?t know about the blood protection, but it didn?t protect Harry from the abuse and cruelty in the home. And I never saw an incident in the books show us that Harry was ever protected from danger in the house. I?d have liked JKR to show us some situation where Harry was actually protected. 

 

I won?t even get into Dumbledore never bothering to find out the truth about Sirius, because that?s another black mark. I?ll just stick with the thing of not believing the Dursleys were the safest best solution. But that hateful home life, sure made Harry love the wizarding world and want to save it, so Dumbledore got what he must have wanted.

 

As for did Dumbledore redeem himself? For Harry, he did, so I guess that?s all that matters in the case of the story, but for me, he didn?t and never could. I?m not really a greater good sort of person though. I couldn?t sacrifice a child to protect a whole world. Glad I?m not a world leader!

 

Sherry

 

 

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From bpmull at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 25 07:41:39 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 09:41:39 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] hp fan fiction?
In-Reply-To: <CAPyU+0O5kBVg2DhYOodquep1tVUVzrfwsj0urt3oBVhK-8K0=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512192011290.21969@server2.shellworld.net>	<1908763915.1504520.1450659946743.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>	<5678E422.2060200@yahoo.com> <CAPyU+0O5kBVg2DhYOodquep1tVUVzrfwsj0urt3oBVhK-8K0=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <567CF333.6020409@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192885

I use Acrobat XI. I have the full suite and only need to right click and "Combine files in Acrobat". I'm not sure if you can combine pdf files in LibreOffice, but I know you cannot with MSOffice. There may be some other utilities in the Internet that allow combining individual PDFs into one large one.
 
 On 2015-12-22 15:45, Sandra Lynn cresorchid at gmail.com mailto:cresorchid at gmail.com [HPforGrownups] wrote:
 
   I have a question for someone who has used and downloaded the stories on that list of 21 stories everyone should read before they die. There were a couple that were pdf's chapter by chapter. How do you download them and put them together as one story??? 
 
 Crescent
 
 



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From klewellen at shellworld.net  Fri Dec 25 22:18:20 2015
From: klewellen at shellworld.net (Karen Lewellen)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 17:18:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <CAAVn2iPeRFG6OfdvMSNX52OY5zE1zwZp3zMbgP4tyG8jCGeF9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAAVn2iPeRFG6OfdvMSNX52OY5zE1zwZp3zMbgP4tyG8jCGeF9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1512251711460.28187@server2.shellworld.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192886

Oh but Dumbledore did apologize to Harry! During the Kings Cross exchange he asks Harry to forgive him, admitting his faults, and claiming to Harry that Albus believed Harry to be the better man. Frankly I cannot imagine Dumbledore saying I am sorry in a more important way for himself I mean. Have a very harry Christmas! Kare 


> On Thu, 24 Dec 2015, Lynda Cordova lynde4 at gmail.com [HPforGrownups] wrote: 
> Oh, I beg to differ. He really did, if not in words, then in actions. 
> > > Lynda 


> > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 1:05 AM, kathy kulesza kat7555 at yahoo.com 
> > > I don't think he redeemed himself because he never apologized to Harry for 
>> everything he put him through. Dumbledore never should have left Harry with 
>> the abusive Dursleys He was fortunate Harry didn't wind up like Tom Riddle 
>> after living with them. He let Umbridge abuse him and managed to send away 
>> anyone who could have been a source of support for Harry especially Lupin 
>> and Sirius. 
>> kat7555 



From frogcreekwoods at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 02:38:17 2015
From: frogcreekwoods at gmail.com (Ellie NC)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 21:38:17 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <04d501d13f5f$a9a0b660$fce22320$@gmail.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com> <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com> <E988DF6C-86DE-4EE1-9684-509792A5ED12@gmail.com> <04d501d13f5f$a9a0b660$fce22320$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <410B2669-4C45-4987-8088-E48E7F346E16@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192887

Being abused by the Dursleys sucked but it was better than being dead, which is what would have happened if he did not call Petunia's house his "home". The blood protection was everything. 

Sara


 
> On Dec 25, 2015, at 5:00 PM, 'Sherry Gomes' sherriola at gmail.com mailto:sherriola at gmail.com [HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com mailto:HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:  Sherry now: 
 I disagree. I loved Dumbledore till about book five, and by the end of DH I despised him. I don?t think he was bad, but good people who are willing to sacrifice anyone or anything in the accomplishing of their goal, don?t impress me. Much as I dislike Snape, I agree that Dumbledore raised Harry to be like a pig for slaughter, or however Snape said it. He placed Harry in a situation where he was unloved for sixteen miserable years. He was physically, emotionally and verbally abused. In the real world, if Child Protective services saw a family lock a child in his room and put bars on his window, they?d take that child away and lock up the people doing it to him. Dudley routinely beat up Harry, and his parents never stopped it. In book six, Harry thinks that experience had taught him to stay out of the reach of Vernon?s arm. They starved him, not giving him enough food. That was supposedly a safe environment. I don?t know about the blood protection, but it didn?t protect Harry from the abuse and cruelty in the home. And I never saw an incident in the books show us that Harry was ever protected from danger in the house. I?d have liked JKR to show us some situation where Harry was actually protected. 
  
 I won?t even get into Dumbledore never bothering to find out the truth about Sirius, because that?s another black mark. I?ll just stick with the thing of not believing the Dursleys were the safest best solution. But that hateful home life, sure made Harry love the wizarding world and want to save it, so Dumbledore got what he must have wanted.
  
 As for did Dumbledore redeem himself? For Harry, he did, so I guess that?s all that matters in the case of the story, but for me, he didn?t and never could. I?m not really a greater good sort of person though. I couldn?t sacrifice a child to protect a whole world. Glad I?m not a world leader!
  
 Sherry
  
  


 
 


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From kat7555 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 00:04:54 2015
From: kat7555 at yahoo.com (kathy kulesza)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 00:04:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
References: <1377694339.2902627.1451174694581.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1377694339.2902627.1451174694581.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192888

I disagree; Dumbledore had a responsibility to protect Harry while he was at the Dursleys. Harry could have easily wanted to emulate Voldemort instead of wanting to defeat him. Harry could have chose to be a bully just as he had been bullied. Dumbledore did nothing to make sure Harry was happy at the Dursleys.

kat7555


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From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com  Sun Dec 27 17:55:16 2015
From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com)
Date: 27 Dec 2015 17:55:16 -0000
Subject: Weekly Chat, Sunday, 27 December 2015 
Message-ID: <1451238916.11.23448.m6@yahoogroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192889



Weekly Chat reminder
When: Sunday, 27 December 2015 07:00 PM to 08:00 PM
    (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London

Where: http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Notes: Just a reminder, Sunday chat starts in about one hour.

To get to the HPfGU room follow this link:
http://www.chatzy.com/792755223574

Create a user name for yourself, whatever you want
to be called.

Enter the password: hpfguchat

Click "Join Chat" on the lower right.

Chat start times:
11 am Pacific US
12 noon Mountain US
1 pm Central US
2 pm Eastern US
7 pm UK

From: HPforGrownups  Calendar

Privacy:
http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us

Terms:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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From MadameSSnape at aol.com  Sun Dec 27 14:07:37 2015
From: MadameSSnape at aol.com (MadameSSnape at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 09:07:37 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
Message-ID: <3e9de0.35e326a9.43b14aa8@aol.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192890

With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at the  

Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old and
deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.   Petunia was
the only one left of Lily's bloodline - Dumbledore had no choice but  to put
Harry there.  He might have found a way to keep better tabs on him  than
through a muddled Squib, but if the protection engendered by his mother's
sacrifice was to be maintained, it had to be through Petunia.

Sherrie



In a message dated 12/27/2015 2:12:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com writes:






I  disagree; Dumbledore had a responsibility to protect Harry while he was
at the  Dursleys. Harry could have easily wanted to emulate Voldemort
instead of  wanting to defeat him. Harry could have chose to be a bully just as he
had  been bullied. Dumbledore did nothing to make sure Harry was happy at
the  Dursleys.


kat7555










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From frogcreekwoods at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 13:55:20 2015
From: frogcreekwoods at gmail.com (Ellie NC)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:55:20 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <1377694339.2902627.1451174694581.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1377694339.2902627.1451174694581.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1377694339.2902627.1451174694581.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6531BC04-D6A0-4AB6-8139-E5F199218B60@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192891

I don't know many (or any) people who have had good results telling other people how to raise their child or ward. 
 

 As James and Lily's son there was very little chance of Harry turning out to be evil. A romantic notion but Dumbledore believed in love above all else. And Harry's first year of life was filled with love, and Lily's love lived within Harry. It was a risk, and Dumbledore himself said he "never dreamed he would have such a person on his hands" as Harry. But I contend that Dumbledores hands were tied until Harry turned 11. But the very moment Harry turned 11 Dumbledore had Hagrid there to intervene. 

Ellie


 
On Dec 26, 2015, at 7:04 PM, kathy kulesza kat7555 at yahoo.com mailto:kat7555 at yahoo.com [HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com mailto:HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:


   
 I disagree; Dumbledore had a responsibility to protect Harry while he was at the Dursleys. Harry could have easily wanted to emulate Voldemort instead of wanting to defeat him. Harry could have chose to be a bully just as he had been bullied. Dumbledore did nothing to make sure Harry was happy at the Dursleys.

kat7555


 
 
 

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From ddankanyin at cox.net  Mon Dec 28 16:46:31 2015
From: ddankanyin at cox.net (Dorothy Dankanyin)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 11:46:31 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <yo6r1r00d2GND8K01o6szy>
References: <yo6r1r00d2GND8K01o6szy>
Message-ID: <56816767.309@cox.net>

No: HPFGUIDX 192892

On 12/27/2015 9:07 AM, MadameSSnape at aol.com [HPforGrownups] wrote:
>
> With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at 
> the Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an 
> old and deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her 
> family. Petunia was the only one left of Lily's bloodline - Dumbledore 
> had no choice but to put Harry there.  He might have found a way to 
> keep better tabs on him than through a muddled Squib, but if the 
> protection engendered by his mother's sacrifice was to be maintained, 
> it had to be through Petunia.
> Sherrie,
      I agree with you completely. I've been following this discussion, 
and you seem to be the one that understands what J.K. was writing 
about.  I've read all the books many times now, and even though it might 
not seem very obvious, it's what I get out of these stories as well.  
Thanks.
    Dorothy
>
>
> 

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From bpmull at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 11:31:56 2015
From: bpmull at yahoo.com (Bruce P Mull)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 13:31:56 +0200
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <410B2669-4C45-4987-8088-E48E7F346E16@gmail.com>
References: <CAAVn2iNF3z1TSAcTU-hNc3U6ruJaWg1huk434-hCycdhn-DgFg@mail.gmail.com> <1807135896.1027064.1450602311211.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <n5herj+q0pr5@YahooGroups.com> <E988DF6C-86DE-4EE1-9684-509792A5ED12@gmail.com> <04d501d13f5f$a9a0b660$fce22320$@gmail.com> <410B2669-4C45-4987-8088-E48E7F346E16@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5683C0AC.4070507@yahoo.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192893

Bruce:
Once Voldemort used Harry's blood, the blood wards would have been voided. Unless, Harry was not the focus of the wards.
 
 Actually, the way blood wards work, Harry could NOT have been the focus. Uncle Vernon was not a blood relation of Harry. Had Harry been the focus, the minute Vernon tried in anyway to abuse Harry he would have been gone. Dudley must have been the focus. Harry would only benefit because he was accepted to be living there. This would also explain the need for him to go back each year. If he skipped then he would not be able to go back.

-- Dr Bruce Philip Mull Prof Mathematics Prof Computer Science Dean of Information Technology
 
 On 2015-12-26 04:38, Ellie NC frogcreekwoods at gmail.com mailto:frogcreekwoods at gmail.com [HPforGrownups] wrote:
 
   Being abused by the Dursleys sucked but it was better than being dead, which is what would have happened if he did not call Petunia's house his "home". The blood protection was everything. 
 
 Sara
 






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From bart at moosewise.com  Wed Dec 30 22:44:51 2015
From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 17:44:51 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <56816767.309@cox.net>
References: <yo6r1r00d2GND8K01o6szy> <56816767.309@cox.net>
Message-ID: <56845E63.2000907@moosewise.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192894

Sherrie
With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at 
the Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old 
and deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.  
Petunia was the only one left of Lily's bloodline - Dumbledore had no 
choice but to put Harry there.  He might have found a way to keep better 
tabs on him than through a muddled Squib, but if the protection 
engendered by his mother's sacrifice was to be maintained, it had to be 
through Petunia.

Dorothy:
  I agree with you completely.  I've been following this discussion, and 
you seem to be the one that understands what J.K. was writing about.  
I've read all the books many times now, and even though it might not 
seem very obvious, it's what I get out of these stories as well.  Thanks.

Bart:
And, how many hours did Lily have to consider this? Minutes? Probably 
just a matter of seconds, and the first priority was to protect Harry. 
There really wasn't much time to consider what might happen several 
years in the future.

Bart
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From MadameSSnape at aol.com  Wed Dec 30 23:52:20 2015
From: MadameSSnape at aol.com (=?utf-8?B?TWFkYW1lU1NuYXBlQGFvbC5jb20=?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 23:52:20 GMT
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
Message-ID: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192895

Sir-  She had 18 months. Lily & James were well aware that what they were doing was dangerous & could easily result in their deaths. It would be a poor magickal parent who wouldn't begin weaving the strongest protective magick they could find around their child. The magick was already in place-  Lily's death was the trigger that activated it, when it was needed. 
 

 Sherrie 
 "In great deeds something abides..."

 
  >> Sherrie:
 >> With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at the Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old and deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.  
 
 > Bart:
 > And, how many hours did Lily have to consider this? Minutes? Probably just a matter of seconds, and the first priority was to protect Harry. There really wasn't much time to consider what might happen several years in the future.
 
 
 
 

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From bart at moosewise.com  Thu Dec 31 13:33:15 2015
From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:33:15 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
References: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <56852E9B.9000407@moosewise.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192896

(note: with the new participants, perhaps it's time for the list elves 
to remind everybody of the quoting rules? They work pretty well).

Sherrie:
With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at 
the Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old 
and deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.

Bart:
And, how many hours did Lily have to consider this? Minutes? Probably 
just a matter of seconds, and the first priority was to protect Harry. 
There really wasn't much time to consider

Sherrie:
Sir-  She had 18 months. Lily & James were well aware that what they 
were doing was dangerous & could easily result in their deaths. It would 
be a poor magickal parent who wouldn't begin weaving the strongest 
protective magick they could find around their child. The magick was 
already in place-  Lily's death was the trigger that activated it, when 
it was needed.
what might happen several years in the future.

Bart:
The spell depended on Morty offering Lily her life in exchange for 
Harry's. How could she have prepared for that eventuality in advance?

Bart

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From cresorchid at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 15:30:39 2015
From: cresorchid at gmail.com (Sandra Lynn)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:30:39 -0600
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <56852E9B.9000407@moosewise.com>
References: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
	<56852E9B.9000407@moosewise.com>
Message-ID: <CAPyU+0MBeth3wauhD_qhvv85sJTsDTKKM9_k3zgFv2B9RMaLyg@mail.gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192897

(note: with the new participants, perhaps it's time for the list elves to
remind everybody of the quoting rules? They work pretty well).

Sherrie:
With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at the
Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old and
deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.

Bart:
And, how many hours did Lily have to consider this? Minutes? Probably just
a matter of seconds, and the first priority was to protect Harry. There
really wasn't much time to consider

Sherrie:
Sir-  She had 18 months. Lily & James were well aware that what they were
doing was dangerous & could easily result in their deaths. It would be a
poor magickal parent who wouldn't begin weaving the strongest protective
magick they could find around their child. The magick was already in
place-  Lily's death was the trigger that activated it, when it was needed.
what might happen several years in the future.

Bart:
The spell depended on Morty offering Lily her life in exchange for Harry's.
How could she have prepared for that eventuality in advance?

Bart

Crescent:
We actually only have Dumbledore's word that Harry needed to be
there because of the blood magic. Considering how Dumbledore twisted the
truth in other ways, I find it quite possible he would also have told
half-truths to keep Harry there. And after Voldemort's resurrection, having
Harry's blood would have let him personally through those wards so keeping
him there makes no sense.

I wonder what would have happened if Neville's parents hadn't been driven
insane by Bellatrix and another death eater. For they were named as
godparents and would have legally been his guardians. In fact, from what I
recall (which could be flawed), they were killed a week after Harry's
parents. How was it that Dumbledore just walked in and took a child for
whom he did not have guardianship?



On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Bart Lidofsky bart at moosewise.com
[HPforGrownups] <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> (note: with the new participants, perhaps it's time for the list elves to
> remind everybody of the quoting rules? They work pretty well).
>
> Sherrie:
> With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at the
> Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old and
> deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.
>
> Bart:
> And, how many hours did Lily have to consider this? Minutes? Probably just
> a matter of seconds, and the first priority was to protect Harry. There
> really wasn't much time to consider
>
> Sherrie:
> Sir-  She had 18 months. Lily & James were well aware that what they were
> doing was dangerous & could easily result in their deaths. It would be a
> poor magickal parent who wouldn't begin weaving the strongest protective
> magick they could find around their child. The magick was already in
> place-  Lily's death was the trigger that activated it, when it was needed.
> what might happen several years in the future.
>
> Bart:
> The spell depended on Morty offering Lily her life in exchange for
> Harry's. How could she have prepared for that eventuality in advance?
>
> Bart
>
> 
>
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From bart at moosewise.com  Thu Dec 31 18:35:12 2015
From: bart at moosewise.com (Bart Lidofsky)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 13:35:12 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <CAPyU+0MBeth3wauhD_qhvv85sJTsDTKKM9_k3zgFv2B9RMaLyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
 <56852E9B.9000407@moosewise.com>
 <CAPyU+0MBeth3wauhD_qhvv85sJTsDTKKM9_k3zgFv2B9RMaLyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56857560.4020306@moosewise.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192898

Crescent:
> We actually only have Dumbledore's word that Harry needed to be 
> there because of the blood magic. Considering how Dumbledore twisted 
> the truth in other ways, I find it quite possible he would also have 
> told half-truths to keep Harry there. And after Voldemort's 
> resurrection, having Harry's blood would have let him personally 
> through those wards so keeping him there makes no sense.
>
> I wonder what would have happened if Neville's parents hadn't been 
> driven insane by Bellatrix and another death eater. For they were 
> named as godparents and would have legally been his guardians. In 
> fact, from what I recall (which could be flawed), they were killed a 
> week after Harry's parents. How was it that Dumbledore just walked in 
> and took a child for whom he did not have guardianship?

Bart:
     Now, that brings up a couple of interesting questions. However, it 
is pretty well established that DD does not tell lies unless he has a 
strong reason for doing so. Being brought up by the Dursley's resulted 
in an empathy on the part of Harry for the persecuted, but people who 
are brought up with abusers more often repeat the pattern of abuse, with 
a "Now that I have power, I'm going to get revenge!" I have brought up 
before in this group the inherent unfairness of the laws against minors 
using magic at home, because it can only be enforced by those who live 
in Muggle households. It is true that DD did not want Harry to grow up 
with a swelled head, but the Dursley's upbringing was every bit as 
dangerous.

     I know of nothing in the text which even implies that the 
Longbottom's might have been named as Harry's godparents. When the 
Potter's were murdered, Sirius Black was implicated and would not deny 
that he was involved, the WW (in Britain, at least) was in a mess, and 
Morty's backstory implies that Hogwarts was authorized to take charge of 
wizard children without guardians. Essentially, there was pretty much 
nobody around to protest except people who were loyal to and trusted DD 
(Maggie the Cat, Figgy, Hagrid, etc.).

     Bart
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From snapes_witch at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 07:35:42 2015
From: snapes_witch at yahoo.com (snapes_witch at yahoo.com)
Date: 30 Dec 2015 23:35:42 -0800
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <56845E63.2000907@moosewise.com>
References: <yo6r1r00d2GND8K01o6szy> <56816767.309@cox.net>
	<56845E63.2000907@moosewise.com>
Message-ID: <n62lse+1bg3310@YahooGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192899

Lily didn't cast a charm to save Harry. Voldemort offered her a chance to live (at Snape's request) but instead she refused and he killed her and then tried to kill Harry. The ancient charm was called forth by her sacrifice, not by anything she cast.
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From frogcreekwoods at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 12:11:37 2015
From: frogcreekwoods at gmail.com (Ellie NC)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 07:11:37 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
References: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <09EF00D1-8654-4FAF-8C76-0471BDF71A4E@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192900

I'm sorry to nitpick but it was Dumbledore that "invoked an ancient form of magic" that night. I will try to find the exact quote where he says this. 
 

 Sara
 
  >> Sherrie:
 >> With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at the Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old and deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.  
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

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From frogcreekwoods at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 12:18:04 2015
From: frogcreekwoods at gmail.com (Ellie NC)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 07:18:04 -0500
Subject: [HPforGrownups] Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
References: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <846B80EF-DC72-4956-8FDD-401F71BFB816@gmail.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192901

Okay, this explains it well
 http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrificial_protection http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrificial_protection
 

 I don't think Lily did any special magic other than sacrificing herself to save Harry. And then Dumbledore used a charm and then decided to place Harry with Petunia to enable the blood protection. 

Sara
   >> Sherrie:
 >> With all due respect, if anyone is to blame for Harry being placed at the Dursleys', it's Lily.  The magic she used to protect Harry - an old and deep magic - required the protection of  her blood, her family.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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From frogcreekwoods at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 16:11:27 2015
From: frogcreekwoods at gmail.com (frogcreekwoods at gmail.com)
Date: 31 Dec 2015 08:11:27 -0800
Subject: Did Dumbledore ultimately redeem himself?
In-Reply-To: <CAPyU+0MBeth3wauhD_qhvv85sJTsDTKKM9_k3zgFv2B9RMaLyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000f4242.272ec0f965d49a2b@aol.com>	<56852E9B.9000407@moosewise.com>
	<CAPyU+0MBeth3wauhD_qhvv85sJTsDTKKM9_k3zgFv2B9RMaLyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <n63k3f+voa51c@YahooGroups.com>

No: HPFGUIDX 192902

Ellie:
Apologies if this posts twice, but my posts don't seem to be going though.
 

 This wiki article explains it well.
 http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrificial_protection http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrificial_protection
 

 I don't think Lily did any special magic other than sacrificing herself to save Harry. And then Dumbledore used a charm and then decided to place Harry with Petunia to enable the blood protection. 
 

 > Crescent said:
 > We actually only have Dumbledore's word that Harry needed to be there because of the blood 
> magic. Considering how Dumbledore twisted the truth in other ways, I find it quite possible he 
> would also have told half-truths to keep Harry there. And after Voldemort's resurrection, having 
> Harry's blood would have let him personally through those wards so keeping him there makes 
> no sense. 

 >

 > I wonder what would have happened if Neville's parents hadn't been driven insane by Bellatrix 
> and another death eater. For they were named as godparents and would have legally been his 
> guardians. In fact, from what I recall (which could be flawed), they were killed a week after 
> Harry's parents. How was it that Dumbledore just walked in and took a child for whom he did 
> not have guardianship?

Ellie: 
 If Dumbledore was lying Voldemort would have realized it when he got his body back and went after Harry. Of course it was real. And having Voldemort having Harry's blood did not change the fact that Harry was protected. The significance of Voldemort having Harry's blood came when Harry sacrificed himself at the end of DH. Since Lilly's charm still lived in Voldemort, Harry survived. 
 

 I'm not sure what you mean about the Longbottoms. They were not Harry's godparents (Sirius was his godfather and we don't know if he had a godmother) nor were they ever killed. 

Ellie (Sara)
  

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