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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/15/2014 7:40 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:moony_loony@yahoo.com">moony_loony@yahoo.com</a> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:lg2odf+1a7ju3i@YahooGroups.com" type="cite">
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</style><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->So are there maybe other
means of gaining allegiance of a wand besides defeating its former
master?
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<div>Otherwise Dumbledore might not have been the master of
the elder wand at all (which would explain why he didn't
defeat Voldemort despite being 'the strongest wizard AND in
possession of the Elder wand in the Battle inside the
Ministry, book five).</div>
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<br>
Bart:<br>
The story makes clear Grindlewald WAS the master of the elder
wand, and so was Dumbledore. However, it never makes clear exactly
how Dumbledore defeated him. The implication, though, was that it
was not by direct attack, as that should have been impossible
(still, given that there were wizards who could see through Harry's
Invisibility Cloak, it could just be that the Hallows, while very
powerful, were not quite as powerful as the legends told, and DD's
superior skill was able to counteract Grindlewald's superior power).
However, I can give a couple of guesses on how the duel was won
(with explanations as to why JKR didn't just say it): <br>
<br>
1) DD can be pretty damned ruthless if the situation calls for it.
Given that JKR thought of DD as gay, it is quite possible that DD
used the feelings that he and Grindy used to have for each other as
a distraction, long enough to land the coup de grace. As JKR wanted
to make his sexuality an undercurrent rather than explicitly state
it, explaining this method would be saying too much, and therefore
she left it out.<br>
<br>
2) My preferred guess: DD used a muggle method to defeat Grindy.
While it has been demonstrated that wizards can defend themselves
from certain forms of muggle violence, and if injured but not
instantly killed they can be brought back to life from just about
any conventional injury if treatment is given quickly, the Secrecy
Laws show that even before modern technology, wizards were afraid of
concerted muggle action against them. They do get tired eventually,
and there may not be enough Healers if there is mass injury. An
unexpected physical attack would have been enough for DD to get the
upper hand. <br>
<br>
The reason for not revealing that reason could be explained in-story
as WW disdain for muggle methods. But an out-of-story reason is a
bit of a plot hole in HPDH. While it would not occur to a pure
wizard or maybe not even half-bloods, muggle-born wizards would
almost certainly have thought of using a muggle Resistance methods
as a surprise defense. Setting up a massive booby trap (high
explosives, poison gas, etc.), and saying "Voldemort" before running
like hell or wearing protection, would kill the hit squads; the
evidence could be cleaned up before the bad guys knew what happened.
And the purebloods might know that something was happening, but
their arrogance would preclude them from considering muggle methods
as a cause.<br>
<br>
Bart<br>
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