[the_old_crowd] Snape (yes, Snape); James; Lily

[Monika Huebner]

Hi,

I know this mail is already several days old, but I feel like I have
to add my two knuts.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:21:25 -0500, "pennylin" <pennylin at ...>
wrote:

>SNAPE --
>
>I too saw the parallel between the DEs levitating the muggles and the way Snape was treated by James, even before someone mentioned it on this list or HPfGU.  
>
>But, unlike Debbie, I did not perceive James and Sirius as bullies before OoP.  I'm not entirely sure that I'd say they were "bullies" per se even now.  As far as we know, Snape was the only target of their bullying behavior.  Snape's Pensieve Scene left far more untold than told, IMHO. 

I think so, too. And as a memory, it was also seen from a very
subjective PoV, even though we seemed to see it from a larger
perspective because Harry was able to follow James and Sirius around
rather than "being" in Snape's head.

> Is it possible for someone to be a bully to one person and not be a bully in general?  I think so.  When I think of a bully, I tend to think of someone who uses his larger size or social position or what have you to keep everyone around him/her in check.  

Exactly. I was one of those kids who were picked on at school, but I
still don't have any sympathy for Snape, even though perhaps I should.
There are people you just don't get along with, and then there are
those provoking a more rude behavior, even if you aren't a bully, and
I don't consider myself to be one. I am known to behave very oddly
around *some* people I can't avoid meeting. Of course it was very rude
of James to say that Snape bothered him by his mere existence, but I
think I know what he meant by that without being able to really
explain it. And we learned that they loathed each other from the first
moment they laid eyes on each other. As sad as it might seem, those
things do exist. James might have been *very* different around other
people, not only especially around his friends.

As for Sirius loathing Snape, I suspect he might have reminded him
strongly of this brother, so it was just right that James didn't like
him, either. And I sincerely doubt that Snape only used his knowledge
of the Dark Arts to get top marks in DADA. What struck me was the
curse he used on James to defend himself. If I remember well, James
received a cut in his face, which means Snape attacked him bodily, and
it was only *afterwards* that Snape got dangled upside down. In
Harry's generation, we only saw bodily attacks from Malfoy so far,
even during the dueling club in CoS when they were only supposed to
disarm each other. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was
right that Sirius told Harry he shouldn't judge his father by this
isolated event, but then, you can hold against me that it was the
supposed "bully" who said this.

>Debbie: <<<<<After reading this scene, one can really appreciate Snape's need to start attempting to squelch any arrogant tendencies of Harry's the minute he first lays eyes on him.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Snape is still judging Harry based on his appearance though!  I find that utterly despicable.  He doesn't allow himself to move past the fact that Harry is physically the very image of James and get to know who Harry is as a person before he begins to carry out his revenge on the next generation.

I agree (again). I could understand Snape's rage when he threw Harry
out of his office as an impulsive reaction to his hurt feelings, but
he didn't even give him the slightest chance to defend himself. Snape
just assumed that Harry appreciated James treating Snape the way he
did, while Harry really did not. 

>Anyway ....... what might this mean for shipping?  Do men marry women who remind them of their mothers?  Hermione does have some of Molly in her too, though it pains me deeply to admit it (since Molly is now one of my least favorite characters). 

It's interesting to hear you say this because you are a huge Hermione
fan, but I saw a couple of parallels between them, too. And Molly
definitely is one of my least favorite characters, even more so after
OoP. If Hermione continues in this direction (which I hope not), she
might rather end up with Ron, if men really do marry women who remind
them of their mothers. But we shouldn't push this too far, there are
always exceptions from the rule. I doubt Sirius would ever have
considered marrying someone who reminded him of his mother.

>It's all very interesting.  You have Hermione being physically nothing like Lily or Molly, but being very much a blend of them in terms of personality.  I would note that Rowling has indicated in interviews (ha!) that Hermione has and will continue to "lighten up" more and more.  

It's time. If she continues like this, I'll feel more and more the
urge to slap her, which would be a pity because I always liked her a
lot. It's time for her to abandon SPEW, at least in the way she was
handling it in OoP. And she regrettably adopted some of Molly's
attitudes I didn't like in the least. But she's only 16, she still has
time to grow out of it.

Monika