[the_old_crowd] OOP: First-read Reactions (way too long)

[pennylin]

Hi all --

Lots of great discussion today and here I am with *no* time.  Oh well.  Some things must be responded to though........

<<<<<On the other hand, I thought a number of things that were irrelevant to the plot were slipped in primarily for the purpose of answering fans' questions -- like why isn't Hermione in 
Ravenclaw, which is the only one I can think of at the moment.>>>>>

I liked having these details mixed in, and you should too, because now they are *canon* in a way that wouldn't be true if she just gave an interview response.  Right?  <g>  

There's also the "Harry thinks Hermione is ugly" myth propagated by certain segments of the R/H ship which was blasted to smithereens with a point-on contradiction.  I *love* it!  :--)  

Seriously, I did love those little details.  I loved finding complete confirmation that Harry's name is *just Harry*!  Do you hear me, Lori?  [sorry, private joke which Heidi and Carole will understand]

<<<<<Harry -- IMO, it was critical to the story arc for Harry to fail in a significant way.  It reminds us that Harry does not march forward inexorably toward his final defeat of Voldemort.  He must actively *choose* that course.  The vagueness in the wording of the prophecy bears this out.  I didn't think Harry's anger came as a surprise; there have been hints of his anger throughout the series that foreshadowed what happened here.  As a longtime PACMAN (Perfectly Angelic Characters Make Awful Novels) member, I found that I like Harry a lot better for his human weaknesses than for his superheroism.>>>>>>>>>>>

*nods*  Yes, definitely.  I also agree with all the reasons that Kris listed out for Harry's anger.  I'm finding on re-read and listening to the audio that the "sweet Harry" really is still lurking underneath; more so than I got from my first impression.     

<<<<Hermione -- Hermione was *way* too successful in OOP.  She made all the right choices, it seemed, giving her a new Super-Hermione flavor.  On the other hand, she was snappish, strident and impatient with others.>>>>>>>>>>

Hermione *too* successful?  Is that possible?  <g>  Interesting.  You thought she was Super!Hermione; I thought she really came into her own.  By contrast, I thought Ginny was suddenly and unbelievably transformed from whining fan-girl to Super!Ginny of Fanon-like Fame.  I found Ginny's characterization much harder to take on re-read too, I must say.  I initially thought, "Okay, I must retract what I've said about Ginny; I like her now" (though even then, I reserved judgment about whether her transformation was completely believable).  I'm now not so sure I like her as much as I thought I did, though I certainly like her much better than I did pre-OOP.  But, I'll still say that JKR failed miserably with her characterization in pre-OOP days.  It seems she fell back on the rather lame (IMO) excuse that Ginny had previously not had a personality b/c of Harry-induced shyness.  Hmmmmm.  Okay.......well.........eh..........not so sure I buy that entirely, Jo, but all right.  

Back to Hermione though: I remember her being more snappish and impatient with Ron primarily ..... but I can't recall that being the case with other characters.  Do you remember instances off-hand where she was a pain-in-the-butt with people other than Ron?  IMHO, it *could be* that Ron and Hermione's arguments became more clearly *arguments* (and less like bickering or "bantering"), which might make Hermione *appear* more snappish than in previous books.  IOW, if Rowling meant to emphasize the nature of their interactions into more true arguments than before, that might have colored your perspective of Hermione, right?

<<<<<<Percy and the Twins -- Like a lot of Percy fans, I was very disappointed that JKR seems to find pomposity to be a big joke and to lampoon him in the way she does, while she lavishes affection on the Twins.  I still think they're bullies, and I didn't care for the way they preyed on the unsuspecting first-years.  I think the Twins had the same effect on Ron and Percy, and while her development of Ron reflects the negative affect of their antics and charisma on the family dynamic, she's reduced Percy to a cardboard martinet.  I'm not convinced JKR laid the groundwork for his alienation adequately, particularly from Molly and Bill, who seemed to be very supportive of him in GoF.>>>>>>>>

Agree with the above entirely.  

<<<<<<Ginny -- She finally got the development she needed.  I think she's been set up as the twins' heir apparent, if not more.>>>>>>>>>

See above.  <grimace>

<<<<<<Gender -- Penny seemed to think that the gender critics would be happier with this book.  Perhaps I'm too exacting, but I wasn't really satisfied.  She did demonstrate that there are women in significant Ministry positions, but the only one that gets developed is unrelentingly evil.  In fact, she's given us two Evil Women.  Molly, OTOH, is shown as the OOP member in charge of the headquarters housecleaning team.  And Tonks was rather pointless.  Only the male OOP members we met turned out to have a role.  The adult women are just too static for my taste.  And while we saw both Hermione and Ginny take active roles, they were there to support the hero.  At times, I felt that they were primarily out there establishing their shipping credentials to Harry.  At some point, I'm going to have to write an essay on this, I think.>>>>>>>>>>

But ........ BUT.........BUT.........sputters in indignation...........BUT what about McGonagall?!!!  I *loved* her in OoP (I loved her *before* OOP too).  She got some great development.  She has gumption; she has backbone.  She's *important*!  And, she's human too.  I've always known she was a softie at heart, but you really see her displaying more of that in this one.  "Potter, if I have to work with you every single evening, I will make sure you qualify for Auror studies" (paraphrase).  I loved her.  Loved her to pieces.  :::::screams:::::::

And, I liked Tonks.  I don't think we saw enough of her to make a judgment about her role in the Order or anything, but I liked her quite alot and look forward to seeing her again.  

And, Hermione was right about everything.  I realize that plays into your Hermione is too Mary Sue-ish issues, but the fact remains that Harry may end up resenting the fact that had he listened to Hermione, Sirius would doubtless still be alive.  I worry about how that bit of introspective realization may affect Harry's relationship with Hermione in Book 6.  
  
<<<<<<<<I guess I'll mention shipping, since it seems to be a popular topic.  I thought the H/H shippers would be happy with this one; I *never* expected to see R/H  or H/H in OOP.  But overall any H/H hints were balanced by Ginny's emergence.  Instead of a linear FITD, we have a host of possibilities now, and the possibility of an evenly matched sextet where no combination (except Ron/Ginny, of course!) seems too farfetched.  This particularly pleases me, because I have always found shipping Trio members to one another dissatisfying unless the third member was dead.  There are all sorts of clues (direct and indirect) now pointing in every direction.  For example, what does everyone think of Ginny's snatching the Snitch from Cho?  Or is that just my inclination to read metaphor and symbolism into every Quidditch sequence?>>>>>>>>>>>>>

*nods again*  Yes, definitely an open playing field.  RE: Ginny snatching the snitch from under Cho's nose?  Well, I did grimace.  BUT, there's also the scene where Cho morphs into Hermione in Harry's memory.  There's almost a perfect counter-argument to virtually all the shipping "clues, symbolism," etc.  It's great.  It's terrific.  Color me delighted.

Penny




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