[the_old_crowd] OOP: Some shipping thoughts

[pennylin]

Hi --

No worries, Neil ------ I shan't be roasting you alive.  :--)  I'll keep the spoiler space for now.

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<<<Did JKR really need to cut away at the moment Harry and Cho were about to kiss?  It's not as if the next scene had them in bed smoking post-coital cigarettes [note to self: would probably be pipes in the wizarding world].>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yep, I wondered that too.  It seems Rowling professes to want to age her characters realistically but finds it harder to actually *do* this in the books.  I have a very good lurker friend (who'd probably love a group like this if we have any desire to invite vouched-for-lurkers), who has 2 teenagers.  She was telling me that this reticence on the sexuality thing seems hugely out-of-step with reality to her.  We wondered if it was a function of a cultural difference between the US and the UK, or if Brits would similarly find the characters to be still acting a bit too young in this regard.  

<<<<So, the H/C ship was explored, but appears to have been for the purposes of noting the awakening of Harry's hormones and introducing Madam Puddifoot's coffee den.  Harry fancies Cho, yeah, but is over her by the end of the book.>>>>>>>>>>

Yep, I agree that this one is pretty clearly over from Harry's end, which would make it slightly more challenging to return to, though not impossible.

<<<<<<<<Okay, Hermione really likes Harry and pushes him to chase Cho, because she
realises he likes Cho and thinks he needs something to take his mind off his
mind. This "why don't you go after Cho and by the way mention that you think
I'm ugly" behaviour could be interpreted as clear evidence of Ha/He from
Hermione, but Harry, being rather preoccupied, is almost oblivious.>>>>>>>>

Interesting that a non-shipper would put this spin on it. I agree with you, and I'm delighted that a "neutral" party had the same reaction.  I also think there are several other possible He---------->Ha instances in this book, but Rowling has crafted it brilliantly in true Austen-esque fashion because each piece of evidence has an almost perfect opposite interpretation in my mind.  

The first, of course, is Hermione's reaction to the arrival of the prefect badges.  My interpretation is that she not only *expected* to be paired with Harry in this role, she *wanted* to be (and her disappointment and surprise shines through before she recovers herself).  Of course, the perfect corrollary is that she was flustered and blushing because she would have been more *comfortable* serving in that role with Harry, rather than Ron.  It's brilliant.  Truly.  [I reserve the right to completely revamp my opinions on all of this after re-reads and debates .........<g>]

I also thought the scene where Harry acknowledges that he and Cho just snogged was telling, but again, brilliantly-crafted.  Hermione asks what Cho wanted in a "businesslike manner," she asks "briskly" if they kissed and is seen to be wearing a slight frown as she awaits his answer.  Overtly, this looks He---------->Ha to me, but I'll concede that she might well be frowning and reacting overall to Ron's completely juvenile reaction to the entire topic.    

<<<<<<<I expect to be roasted alive for saying this, but imo, JKR is definitely
heading more towards a R/He ship now - the bickering, the comparison to Mr &
Mrs Weasley, Hermione's letter to Krum to make Ron jealous.  It seems rather
obvious, but she is tending to follow the obvious lines rather than
potentially inventive theories hidden between the lines.>>>>>>>>>

Um, I definitely am not so sure about that, Couric interview notwithstanding.  The bickering is pretty clearly spelled out to be *arguing* (not witty banter) and it's unpleasant to all involved.  And, we don't have to take Harry's word for it actually.  We the reader can pretty well see that it's *not* banter and it's not fun.  They are fundamentally disagreeing most of the time, IMHO.  If this was meant to be "tension," then I think Rowling failed abysmally.  At least in GoF, there were *some* witty moments, even if it didn't, IMO, raise nearly to the level of witty, clearly unresolved sexual tension, bantering that many R/H shippers put on it.  I saw none of that in this volume though.    

Word on the street is that some of the R/H fans are squicked by Ron comparing Hermione to his mum.  I can understand, since I always thought that the whole Ginny is just like Lily line of reasoning was ......well........squicky.

As for the letter to Krum, it didn't strike me that Hermione was deliberately trying to make anyone jealous, let alone Ron, but I probably ought to re-read that scene before commenting.  I thought it was just another brilliant Austen-esque move on Rowling's part, because it allows us to assume that she maybe *is* carrying on a romance with Krum, which makes it seem far less odd that there is absolutely no romantic interest or boyfriend involving Ms. Granger in this book at all.  

Overall, I thought the entire absence of definite R/H development could be either a very GOOD Thing (from *my* perspective as an H/H shipper), because maybe it's a signal that it's just not going to happen, or a BAD Thing (because it's just a matter of time).  The evidence of Ron's crush on Hermione is hugely understated in OoP, when compared to GoF.  He gets jealous over her writing to Krum, and he gives her perfume for Christmas (but she seemed far more interested in the book Harry gave her, as I presume the perfume must not have been to her taste).  So, these 2 instances confirm to the reader that yes, Ron indeed still has a thing for Hermione.  Oh, and he reacts *sharply* when Hermione says that of course Harry isn't a bad kisser.  :--)  But, overall, there is absolutely no indication that things are progressing on that front.  Hermione does zilch to encourage Ron, from what I could tell.  And, he seems unconcerned about having a girlfriend himself, and, as I said, his feelings for Hermione seem far less pronounced and on the surface than they were in GoF.   

<<<<<I felt there was a hint of Hermione/Draco in comparison to Lily's attitude
to James in Snape's memory and later marriage to same arrogant bully, but I
think the "mudblood" thing is a major barrier to any sort of romance, unless
Draco performs a spectacular U-turn.  I don't see any evidence that JKR is
going to convert Draco into a nice young man.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yep, sorry Heidi and Cassie and others, but I see no evidence that Draco is meant to be anything more than a flat 2-dimensional bully who will become a Death Eater in due time.  There was no Draco-Hermione interaction either.

<<<<<Ron obviously thinks Harry should be with Ginny and is surprised that she is
seeing other boys, indicating his own immaturity (i.e. harking back to an
old crush she had on Harry and thinking she is still 10 and a virgin).
There were hints that Luna Lovegood has her eye on Ron, so I speculate that
she may be used to wake Hermione up to her unrealised interest in Ron in
Book 6.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh, I could definitely be a Ron/Luna shipper.  :--)  In fact: how about H/H, Ron/Luna and Neville/Ginny.  Yep, that's perfect.  

On the H/G thing, I think this too is brilliant.  Ginny is fleshed out more, she interacts with Harry and she has her own life.  I *still* wish JKR had seen fit to handle this development of Ginny more gradually over the pace of the previous 3 books, but whatever.  Harry shows no romantic interest in Ginny whatsoever, but that could easily change and Rowling has left it set up that way.  Now that Ginny is actually *talking* to Harry, it could clearly be a set-up for them to develop a closer relationship that blossoms into love over time.  It's also much more plausible to have H/G now that Ginny has a few previous boyfriends under her belt.  OTOH, it could just as easily be a signal that H/G is a no-go .......... Ginny is over him and moved on (and Ron's support for the ship may make it less palatable for *both* Harry and Ginny).  Could go either way, based on my first read.

Although I have to throw this out too, while I'm thinking about Ron's "support" for the H/G ship.  I couldn't help wondering what that "oddly furtive" look meant, when he's telling Harry to choose someone better next time.  The surface-level obvious interpretation *is* that he was hinting that Harry should choose Ginny.  But it might not be.  Still ruminating on that one.

<<<<<<<<Back to the ? for Harry, I think Tonks is a possible match, which may be why
she was introduced.  The (slightly) older woman, who knows a few tricks...>>>>>>>>

LOL!  That never even occurred to me.  Hmmmmmm.  Well, sorry but I won't be changing ship allegiances anytime soon.  

Overall, I thought this book left open practically every major ship, except H/Cho which seems dead and He/D which seems a complete no-go to me.  So, sorry fandom, but it seems the shipping wars will continue, starting at Nimbus - 2003 in a few weeks.  <g>

Penny


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