[the_old_crowd] Re: OOP: Some shipping thoughts

[pennylin]

Hi --

> Did JKR really need to cut away at the moment Harry and Cho were 
> about to kiss?  It's not as if the next scene had them in bed 
> smoking post-coital cigarettes [note to self: would probably be 
> pipes in the wizarding world]. 

Barb: <<<<Ha!  Quite possibly.  I'm thinking now how very peculiar it was that JKR told Katie Couric there might be snogging between Ron and 
Hermione.  I don't exactly call her peck on the cheek before the 
Quidditch match "snogging.">>>>>>>>>>>>>

Er.........precisely.  Which is why the Couric interview is at least *somewhat* suspect really.  

<<<She wasn't afraid for the swearing to increase a bit; why was 
she so afraid of this?  Even the films are PG rated, but that scene 
was adamantly G.  Most kisses between fifteen and sixteen year olds 
are NOT rated G.>>>>>>>>>

*nods*  I do take Pippin's point though that we can hope that JKR is just holding this all in reserve for when it *really* matters.  But, I do still think it was a tad too G-rated, given all her hype for years now about aging the characters realistically.  She seems almost Tolkien-esque in her inability to write the true sexual awakening for her characters.

Neil: > Okay, Hermione really likes Harry and pushes him to chase Cho, 
> because she realises he likes Cho and thinks he needs something to 
> take his mind off his mind. This "why don't you go after Cho and 
> by the way mention that you think I'm ugly" behaviour could be 
> interpreted as clear evidence of Ha/He from Hermione, but Harry, 
> being rather preoccupied, is almost oblivious.

Barb: <<<<I don't think that's an indication of Ha/He so much as Hermione 
being worried that Cho might have put some stock in the Witch Weekly 
article from the year before.>>>>>>>>

Why would Hermione be worried about that?  She shrugged it off then.  I doubt that was on her mind.  I think she had astutely observed that Harry had a thing for Cho and pushed it because it would take his mind off his problems.  Whether she had another agenda (i.e., getting the Cho thing "out of the way") is debatable.  But, of course, if she observed that Harry likes Cho, there is absolutely no way in the world that she isn't clued into Ron's crush on her.  Which brings us to why exactly she isn't pursuing it that in any way, shape or form in OoP.  More on that below.  :--)

<<<<<<<On top of that, Harry was tactless 
enough to have a date on Valentine's Day and then tell his date that 
he was going off to meet another girl, with whom he has been 
romantically linked in the past and with whom he still spends a lot 
of time.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That's all Harry's problem though.  Hermione didn't have anything to do with that.

Barb: <<<<<I've really always thought that we'd eventually see R/Hr, and with 
this book I'm now hoping that's not going to happen.  That might 
change with book six, but only if Hermione grows a heart in the next 
book and matures a great deal.  Frankly, after reading OotP I was 
hoping Hermione would go off to Bulgaria with Krum and we never see 
her again.  She was infuriating in this book.  When Nearly Headless 
Nick gets shirty with Ron because he doesn't have blood running 
through his veins, we get, "Well done, Ron," snapped Hermione.  For 
pete's sake.  Nick was being as stupidly sensitive about blood as 
Myrtle was about breathing.  It's hardly Ron's fault if ghosts have 
no sense of proportion about these things. This was uncalled for, 
and it wasn't the only incident like this. She was horrid to both 
Ron and Harry all through the book.>>>>>>>>>>>

Horrid?  All through the books?  Er.........examples, please.  :--)  I *know* we're going to disagree about this but I still have a hard time grasping that someone could have the impression that she was horrid through the entire book.  I don't think Hermione is perfect (which is good), but she certainly wasn't horrid to both boys through the entire book, IMHO.  I thought she really shines in this book; really proves her mettle so to speak.  She's not just book-learning, though that certainly still comes in handy.  And, there was definitely a change in the interaction between Harry and Hermione.  I know the R/H folks will be making light of it, but Hermione showed that she is quite capable of handling his moods and bringing him back to earth.  They also interacted in a very healthy way, IMHO ....... they did argue and disagree, but they always resolved the conflict in a perfectly healthy manner.   Ron and Hermione, OTOH, are just flat-out arguing and never coming to any resolution.  For me, OoP painted a picture of a future H/H ship with a healthy partnership in which neither party is dominant (which I've always maintained would be so), whereas we're still getting a sense of great competitiveness between Ron and Hermione.    

<<<<<I'm of the opinion that Ron deserves far better than Hermione at 
this point.  I mean, he gives her perfume for Christmas and she 
gives him a shouting homework schedule?>>>>>>>>>

Well, honestly, she probably didn't know he'd give her perfume when she *bought* the schedule, and she gave both boys the same gift.  You weren't ........er........expecting that she'd give Ron something extra-special, were you?  <g>

<<<<<<<<He's named a prefect and 
what does she do?  She shows how shocked she is.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Shocked or ........*disappointed.*  Heh.  *I* personally think she let the cat out of the bag there and stuffed it back in as quickly as she could.  I did offer up the alternative explanation earlier, but as you might guess, I really do find that scene to be particularly revealing.  I said "A *ha*!!!" out loud, in a reasonably loud voice, in the library, when I read that bit.

<<<<<<<<I can't really see 
Ron with Luna either, but at this point I'd rather see him with 
anyone else apart from Hermione until she gets a lot nicer, more 
mature and more respectful of her closest friends' feelings.  Right 
now I think she's a complete nightmare.>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think she was very respectful and understanding of both boys, to be honest.  I think she's particularly sympathetic to Harry (though she doesn't coddle him either), but she very clearly believes that Ron just needs more self-confidence.  She's very supportive of him with Quidditch, as one example.  She read over their homework that night when Percy sent that horrid note to Ron, and I think she decided to do that based on Ron tearing up Percy's letter.  She could see that both of them were past exhausted ....... but I think the triggering factor was her witnessing Ron's clear loyalty to Harry.  On re-read, I'll come up with more.

Neil: > Ron obviously thinks Harry should be with Ginny and is surprised 
> that she is seeing other boys, indicating his own immaturity (i.e. 
> harking back to an old crush she had on Harry and thinking she is 
> still 10 and a virgin). There were hints that Luna Lovegood has 
> her eye on Ron, so I speculate that she may be used to wake 
> Hermione up to her unrealised interest in Ron in Book 6.

Barb: <<<<Ron was definitely referring to Harry when he suggested that Ginny 
choose someone better next time.>>>>>>>>

Eh, not so fast.  I'm not entirely convinced of that.  That "oddly furtive" look on Ron's face might mean a variety of things.  As I told Eb this afternoon, it's *possible* that Ron has already clued into an inevitable H/H pairing.  He does *nothing* to pursue Hermione after giving her that perfume for Christmas.  Was he *really* tied up all of Valentine's Day?  No card, no gift?  Eh?  There is just squat nothing in the way of movement on that ship-front at all.  So, I wouldn't be too, too sure about that comment.  That seems like a very good place for JKR to have planted a red hairing.  :--)

<<<<<  I'm not sure Ron showed any interest in Luna--I think 
it was the other way around.  If Hermione only shows a true interest 
in Ron because of his being involved with another girl (such as when 
Fleur kissed him in GoF) that would be most dissatisfying.  He was 
coughing up slugs for her when he was twelve.  Does she not get that 
he fancies her rotten?  Not that I understand why now, as I said.>>>>>>>

Oh, how can she not?  That's not the question.  She obviously knows that he fancies her rotten, Barb.  The question is: why is she not encouraging him, if that's what she wants?  Why is he not doing anything to pursue her is a secondary question and given Ron's maturity level, it's fairly easily answered.  But, honestly, if the girl has the forthrightness to push Harry into a relationship with Cho, do we *really, really, really* believe she lacks the gumption to make some moves on behalf of her own love life?  There was ample opportunity for Rowling to develop this ship, even subtly, and it was not done.  Hermione seems well aware of everyone else's love lives ........ why is she not making sarcastic remarks all over the place if she wants Ron to wake up and smell the coffee?  Isn't one possible answer that she doesn't *want* this?  

Penny

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