From mike at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid  Sat Apr  3 21:29:56 2004
From: mike at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:29:56 +0200
Subject: Philip Pullman - attn Eb!
In-Reply-To: <c3ftlc+a8r1@...>
Message-ID: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF25245835C@...>

Hey Eb!

I'm late on this one, but I had just read the article before you sent
it through. Didn't have a chance to respnd till now - but I agree - it
*is* good!

I can't say that I'm head over heals in love with P.P. I do agree that
the God he pillories isn't the God I worship - but then again, I also
wouldn't say that the the UN Tim Lahaye pillories in the Left Behind
drivel is the UN I'm perfectly content to support in questions of
world peace. Though I suppose there's a difference between the
critique of a metaphysical concept and of a social structure. Anyway
...

Do you - or anyone else here in the joint - have a running
bibliography of academic stuff on HDM? I'm collecting anything I can
get my hands on for my dissertation proposal ...

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) 
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, 
so that may not have been bravery...."




From selah_1977 at selah_1977.yahoo.invalid  Mon Apr  5 23:09:15 2004
From: selah_1977 at selah_1977.yahoo.invalid (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:09:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Philip Pullman - attn Eb!
In-Reply-To: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF25245835C@...>
Message-ID: <20040405230915.77659.qmail@...>

Hey, Mike--
 
Let me do some checking for you.  You also might want to check out the proceedings of the NEMLA conference panel, "The fantasy and the reality must connect:  The Intersection of Genres in the Works of Philip Pullman".  Remind me about this in 48 hrs. offlist if I don't get back with you.
 
All the best as you move into the diss stage--see you on the other side!

--Ebony

Aberforth's Goat <mike at ...> wrote:
Hey Eb!

I'm late on this one, but I had just read the article before you sent
it through. Didn't have a chance to respnd till now - but I agree - it
*is* good!

I can't say that I'm head over heals in love with P.P. I do agree that
the God he pillories isn't the God I worship - but then again, I also
wouldn't say that the the UN Tim Lahaye pillories in the Left Behind
drivel is the UN I'm perfectly content to support in questions of
world peace. Though I suppose there's a difference between the
critique of a metaphysical concept and of a social structure. Anyway
...

Do you - or anyone else here in the joint - have a running
bibliography of academic stuff on HDM? I'm collecting anything I can
get my hands on for my dissertation proposal ...

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) 
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, 
so that may not have been bravery...."


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From catherine at catorman.yahoo.invalid  Tue Apr  6 09:10:07 2004
From: catherine at catorman.yahoo.invalid (Catherine Coleman)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:10:07 +0100
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Philip Pullman - attn Eb!
In-Reply-To: <20040405230915.77659.qmail@...>
References: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF25245835C@...>
 <20040405230915.77659.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <pmm$jwBvPncAJwUI@...>

In message <20040405230915.77659.qmail at ...>, Ebony 
Elizabeth Thomas <selah_1977 at ...> writes
>Hey, Mike--
>
>Let me do some checking for you.? You also might want to check out the
>proceedings of the NEMLA conference panel, "The fantasy and the reality
>must connect:? The Intersection of Genres in the Works of Philip
>Pullman".? Remind me about this in 48 hrs. offlist if I don't get back with
>you.
>All the best as you move into the diss stage--see you on the other side!
>--Ebony

Also, I haven't checked yet, but I'm wondering whether there is a 
transcript floating around of Philip Pullman's discussion with the 
Archbishop of Canterbury which took place at the National Theatre 
(London) recently.  I'm sure the debate was interesting.

Catherine




From tim_regan82 at dumbledad.yahoo.invalid  Tue Apr  6 09:50:30 2004
From: tim_regan82 at dumbledad.yahoo.invalid (Tim Regan)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:50:30 +0100
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Philip Pullman - attn Eb!
In-Reply-To: <pmm$jwBvPncAJwUI@...>
Message-ID: <SEA2-DAV6IkyPzGNsok00009876@...>

Hi All,
 
Catherine wrote:
 >  Also, I haven't checked yet, but I'm wondering whether there is a 
 >  transcript floating around of Philip Pullman's discussion with the 
 >  Archbishop of Canterbury which took place at the National Theatre 
 >  (London) recently.  I'm sure the debate was interesting. 
 
There's one linked from  <http://www.bridgetothestars.net/>
http://www.bridgetothestars.net/ at 
 
 
<http://weather.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml;$sessionid$SQEQJ5TJIJO1BQFIQ
MFSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/arts/2004/03/17/bodark17.xml&sSheet=/arts/2004/03/18/ix
artright.html>
http://weather.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml;$sessionid$SQEQJ5TJIJO1BQFIQM
FSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/arts/2004/03/17/bodark17.xml&sSheet=/arts/2004/03/18/ixa
rtright.html
 
 <http://tinyurl.com/2r6cv> http://tinyurl.com/2r6cv
 
They also mention Pullman talking on Myth at the ENO which sounds good:
 
 <http://www.eno.org/whatson/full.php?performancekey=27>
http://www.eno.org/whatson/full.php?performancekey=27
 
Cheers,
 
Dumbledad.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mike at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid  Fri Apr  9 18:17:24 2004
From: mike at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:17:24 +0200
Subject: Philip Pullman + fun things to do with your kidneys
In-Reply-To: <SEA2-DAV6IkyPzGNsok00009876@...>
Message-ID: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF252458363@...>

GREAT articles - thanks so much guys!

* * * * 

BTW, I'm getting my big chance to find out everything I never wanted
to knew about life in a hospital. It all started out about ten months
ago when I got a bad back aches that lasted about four days then
disappeared. After two more episodes I went to the doctor (around
Christmas), who looked at me for all of two minutes, told me a I had a
muscle aches and needed to go to physiotherapy. 

So I went to physio. The therapist, a real cool gal, couldn't make
sense of my symptoms and wanted to talk to doc. Doc told her who the
doc is, so be quiet and get to work. So we did our physio thing and I
excercised religiously and kept onhaving episodes. I went back to doc
two more times, got two 30 second examinations and was told (more or
less) to stop carping and do my exercises and eat my spinach.

Last week, I finally got my head on straight enough to demand a second
opinion - and five minutes on the ultrasound gizmo. Lo and behold, it
turns out that I have a badly blocked kidney - and was well on my way
to killing the thing. I just got home from round one of fun, exciting
kidney investigations at the hospital (actually, the people there are
really fun and the food ain't half bad). Monday I go back for more.

I've been told that physio therapy doesn't tend to help blocked
kidneys very much, just in case you were wondering.

Not sure how that works in to HP and Pullman, but it's certainly
keeping me busy right now ...

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) 
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, 
so that may not have been bravery...."




From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Fri Apr  9 23:24:24 2004
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (Parker Brown Nesbit)
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:24:24 -0400
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Philip Pullman + fun things to do with your kidneys
Message-ID: <BAY5-F22ZWOxrdGj2vB0004097d@...>

Mr Goat wrote:


>Last week, I finally got my head on straight enough to demand a second
>opinion - and five minutes on the ultrasound gizmo. Lo and behold, it
>turns out that I have a badly blocked kidney - and was well on my way
>to killing the thing. I just got home from round one of fun, exciting
>kidney investigations at the hospital (actually, the people there are
>really fun and the food ain't half bad). Monday I go back for more.


Mike,

Hope you're on the mend & will soon be back to cavorting around and eating 
everything in sight (as goats are wont to do ;))

Seriously, good luck with all of this.

{{{Hugs}}}

Parker

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  FREE 
download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/




From tim_regan82 at dumbledad.yahoo.invalid  Mon Apr 19 12:34:57 2004
From: tim_regan82 at dumbledad.yahoo.invalid (Tim Regan)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:34:57 -0000
Subject: John the Baptist?
In-Reply-To: <033901c40162$2744f570$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>
Message-ID: <c60h1h+lr21@...>

Hi All,

'Mind if I go back to the John the Baptist thread again?

<Catherine the_old_crowd 581>
I don't think that John the Baptist was ever mentioned in an 
interview, but I do recall people using the interview to speculate, 
and one of the theories which came up was a Jesus Christ/John the 
Baptist, Harry/Neville analogy.
</Catherine>

<Penny the_old_crowd 588>
Re: John the Baptist ------> I'm wondering if this reference has 
come up in discussions because of the fact that he was allegedly 
beheaded.  Athena has a fairly extensive theory worked out that 
Harry won't just die in the end, but will be beheaded in fact.
</Penny>

<Dumbledad HPforGrownups 64663>
There's a long line of great leaders working for `the one' to fulfil 
a prophesy: Dumbledore, Morpheus in The Matrix, Yoda in Star Wars, 
John the Baptist in The Bible.
</Dumbledad>

For me the parallel isn't Harry or Neville as John the Baptist, but 
Dumbledore. He's the one who was esteemed as the saviour (his power 
is repeatedly mentioned in keeping Voldemort at bay), and yet he 
knows that it is someone else mentioned in the prophesy. Now, if we 
identify Dumbledore as John the Baptist, then we may be implying 
some kind of crucifixion for Harry, like Neo's death in Matrix III, 
but let's concentrate on the implications for Dumbledore. If the 
parallel remains close, then we'd expect to see him imprisoned and 
then beheaded by a king to impress a queen and her daughter. The 
actual bible passage doesn't say much (I'll include the two passages 
at the end of this post).

But, since then, the legend has been reworked several times with 
Salom? , Herodias's daughter, taking on a larger and larger role. 
Because of Accio's http://www.accio.org.uk/ location in Reading I've 
been thinking about Oscar Wilde recently, and he wrote a stage 
version, in French, in 1896 called "Salom?". In fact the story had 
become an icon for gay men, so at a time when homosexual sex was 
illegal, a picture of the Salom? legend on one's wall was one of the 
inferences used by gay men to identify each other. There's also a 
Strauss opera of the same name based on the Oscar Wilde play, which 
is famous for Salom?'s dance of the seven veils.

So, that leaves us looking for an influential mother and daughter 
and a powerful man. The man will imprison Dumbledore (how?!?!?) and 
then the women will persuade him to kill Dumbledore. Any guesses who 
the women could be ? could Mrs Malfoy or Bellatrix seduce the next 
MoM?

Having said all that, the other John the Baptist prototypes, Yoda 
and Morpheus, die peacefully of old age or outlive their heir 
respectively.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.

Matthew 14
1   At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus,
2   And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is 
risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth 
themselves in him.
3   For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in 
prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
4   For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.
5   And when he would have put him to death, he feared the 
multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.
6   But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias 
danced before them, and pleased Herod.
7   Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she 
would ask.
8   And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me 
here John Baptist's head in a charger.
9   And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and 
them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her.
10   And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison.
11   And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: 
and she brought it to her mother.

Mark 6
21   And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday 
made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of 
Galilee;
22   And when the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, 
and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the 
damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee.
23   And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will 
give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom.
24   And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? 
And she said, The head of John the Baptist.
25   And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and 
asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the 
head of John the Baptist.
26   And the king was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath's sake, and 
for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her.
27   And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his 
head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison,
28   And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: 
and the damsel gave it to her mother.

(N.B. This Salom? is probably not the same Salom? who is said to be 
a witness to the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ in Mark 15:40.)