From kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug  3 03:44:31 2004
From: kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (Kelley)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:44:31 -0000
Subject: Membership drive
Message-ID: <cen1mv+3d18@...>

Hi, everybody!

It's been a while since we've invited any folks to join us here at 
The Old Crowd, so seems to be time for a big membership drive.  
Anyone you'd like to see join this group, add their name to the 
database table and we'll start getting the invitations out.  :-)

--Kelley




From saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug  3 03:39:59 2004
From: saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid (Saitaina)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:39:59 -0700
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Membership drive
References: <cen1mv+3d18@...>
Message-ID: <08c001c4790b$8de34720$01fea8c0@...>

Kelley, you still have all my ideas don't you?
I can't remember half of them now, (of course
I think most of them were your idea so there
you go).

Saitaina
****
"I laugh in the face of death...maybe not
laugh more like a snicker...a quiet snicker,
and I wouldn't do it directly in death's face
so, it's more like a quiet snicker behind
death's back. "

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on all
this and plow face-first into a tree because I
was looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll
still be having a better day than I am today."




From kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug  3 03:56:47 2004
From: kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (Kelley)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 03:56:47 -0000
Subject: Membership drive / ideas
In-Reply-To: <08c001c4790b$8de34720$01fea8c0@...>
Message-ID: <cen2dv+af70@...>

Saitaina:
> Kelley, you still have all my ideas don't you?
> I can't remember half of them now, (of course
> I think most of them were your idea so there
> you go).

Lol, I'll have to look.  Thank heavens for Message Archiving! :-D

--Kelley




From saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug  3 04:47:36 2004
From: saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid (Saitaina)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 21:47:36 -0700
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Membership drive / ideas
References: <cen2dv+af70@...>
Message-ID: <08e901c47915$000f66e0$01fea8c0@...>

Kelley wrote:

<Lol, I'll have to look.  Thank heavens for
Message Archiving!>

You said it...though I always have a nagging
fear that people are going to repost whatever
I say over Y!M if I piss them off. :o)

Saitaina
****
"I laugh in the face of death...maybe not
laugh more like a snicker...a quiet snicker,
and I wouldn't do it directly in death's face
so, it's more like a quiet snicker behind
death's back. "

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on all
this and plow face-first into a tree because I
was looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll
still be having a better day than I am today."




From silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid  Sat Aug 28 14:42:38 2004
From: silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid (silmariel)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:42:38 +0200
Subject: So you want and introductory post... sigh
Message-ID: <200408281642.38804.silmariel@...>


I'm not good with those <g>

As some of you already know, I'm Spanish and have some problems managing 
English given how picky we usually are... my posts tend to be schematic and 
to the point, because it is enough effort to me to try to post clear ideas, I 
need some time to adapt to longer posts and given the post rate at hpfgu, I 
can't so I've been reduced to almost a lurker. I don't have much spare time 
know and in the week it can take me respond, I'm 2000 posts away.

Not that all thematics are difficult to treat, but trust me when I say that I 
have to carefully consider before posting on confusing areas such as time 
turners, not because I don't have my ideas clear and understand what listies 
are posting, most because chances are I won't write a good explained post and 
it will appear to be a mess. Quite frustrating.

So in reading me, please take a dose of 'What is she trying to say?' or ask 
for further explanations, I'm not being obscure on purpose.

List of preferences/obsessions:
 
Conspiration theories and Spy games, Plot blowing. 

Ignoring Harry and concentrating on what is happening.

Detective work such as 'What happened at Godric's Hollow?' It includes my 
interest in Percy Weasley, it's not him, it's the letter what caugh me eye, I 
didn't even care about Percy's behaviour in OoP till I read the letter twice.

Reconstructing past generations.

Adult shipping. 

Dragons, Vampires, Snape, Dumbledore, Celts, Luna, the Malfoy bunch.

The WW. Mirrors, rules for magic and magical objects, '(un)-'dead' or looking 
so creatures (threstrals here), power balance, laws, ethics, divination, the 
sky,  plants, surface and underground culture, dark arts...

That classes start every year the same day of week.

Gore and maihem.

Cheers,

Carolina




From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 15:37:39 2004
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:37:39 -0000
Subject: (OT-Newbie intro) So pleased to be here
Message-ID: <cgst83+4g7b@...>

Just a note to say how pleased I am to have been invited to the 
group.  It is great seeing a bunch of old familiar names.  Not to 
slang the HP4GU group- it is great in its own right, and I intend to 
continue boring them with my musings- but I am eager to be on a site 
where I will most likely not hear "Does anyone know why Neville can 
see the Thestrals?" again.

Ginger: filker, HP nut, and shipper of H/G, R/H, Bill/Remus (after a 
proper period of mourning) and Arthur/Molly (got to keep the romance 
alive!)  Also a Severus Snape fan, because he gets all the lines that 
I would give my eye-teeth to be able to say in real life, but can't 
because I am generally a nice person.  




From june.diamanti at junediamanti.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 16:25:27 2004
From: june.diamanti at junediamanti.yahoo.invalid (junediamanti)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:25:27 -0000
Subject: Thank you for the invitation
Message-ID: <cgt01n+arj1@...>

Looks around and waves at some familiar names...

Very flattered to be asked, particularly as I have not posted on 
HPFGU for eons.  Lack of time to follow the threads, and to some 
extent much of what I want to say has been said.

However.  Bio thing, then.  Came into fandom last June after the 
publication of OOP.  Wanted someone to discuss that book with (I 
have been reading the series since 1997) and eventually found 
HPFGU.  Have got way into the fandom since then, mainly via fanfic, 
which I write under the penname of Azazello.  Mainly Snape centric 
and hopefully rooted in canon.

Also lately have got very into the Potter fandom over on live 
journal.

Main interest:  Snape, what makes him tick, what is his backstory 
and more to the point, what will he do?

Nice to have a group on which I might be able to keep up with the 
posts.  

June




From kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 16:48:36 2004
From: kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (Kelley)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:48:36 -0000
Subject: Welcome!
Message-ID: <cgt1d4+qrpr@...>

Hi Carolina, Ginger, and June!  So great that y'all have joined us!

Terrific intro posts, btw: 

Carolina, your English is *excellent*, and I love your list of 
preferences/obsessions. <g>

Hey, Ginger!  Heh, I'm an H/G, R/H-er, too.  Bill/Remus -- 
interesting, I'll have to think on that one (I was an S/R-er, too), 
and ha, never occurred to me to ship Molly and Arthur. ;-)

June -- "Lack of time to follow the threads, and to some extent much 
of what I want to say has been said."  Yes, think that's a pretty 
common sentiment around here.  And wow, since '97?  I'm impressed.  I 
didn't begin until Nov '99, after SS was in paperback here...


To everyone, I've gotten all the invitations out and am still in the 
process of updating the database tables.  Everyone should feel free 
to add folks to invite anytime they want (though it'd be a good idea 
to drop me a line letting me know as I tend to get bogged down in 
other things and forget to check :p).

Just idly curious, to the folks for whom Snape is their biggest 
interest -- lately, due to both comments JKR's made on her site and 
in chats, I'm coming more to the idea that he's going to turn out ESE 
after all (hm, or maybe he'll just backslide a bit).  No idea how 
many people already feel this way, but if he does turn out to be a 
bad guy after all, how would that affect your affinity for him?


--Kelley




From kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 16:58:02 2004
From: kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (Kelley)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 16:58:02 -0000
Subject: One other thing..
Message-ID: <cgt1uq+o3fq@...>

Drat, forgot to add that early on in this group we were doing the 
ubiquitous Intro Profiles (they start with Neil's, message #5 here), 
and run through the early posts.

Feel free to jump in with one of those if you like, add questions / 
info, etc., go nuts. :-)

Also, everyone's welcome to make use of the files, photos, links, 
polls, and so on, too.

--Kelley




From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 17:13:42 2004
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:13:42 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backslide (was Re: Welcome!)
In-Reply-To: <cgt1d4+qrpr@...>
Message-ID: <cgt2s6+6am4@...>

That's BackSLIDE, not backSIDE.  Settle down, folks.

Kelley wondered:
> Just idly curious, to the folks for whom Snape is their biggest 
> interest -- lately, due to both comments JKR's made on her site and 
> in chats, I'm coming more to the idea that he's going to turn out 
ESE 
> after all (hm, or maybe he'll just backslide a bit).  No idea how 
> many people already feel this way, but if he does turn out to be a 
> bad guy after all, how would that affect your affinity for him?

I'm sure whichever way JKR goes, she'll do it well, but personally I 
hope he is on the side of good.  If he turns out to be ESE, then all 
those great lines are just meanness, and not a warped sense of 
humour, which I love as I have one too, but can only use around 
certain people.  And we get nasty!

Ginger, who once threatened to have Kelley named as a deity should I 
ever enter a polytheistic religion. (Remember that, Kelley?)




From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 17:30:06 2004
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:30:06 -0000
Subject: So you want and introductory post... sigh
In-Reply-To: <200408281642.38804.silmariel@...>
Message-ID: <cgt3qu+b3a3@...>

Carolina, Ginger, and June, how thrilling to see new listies and
actual active activity on this list!

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, silmariel <silmariel at t...> wrote:
> 
> Reconstructing past generations.

Oh, yes, I have pages of family trees of Blacks and Malfoys and Snapes
and Moons (so JKR will screw me up by making the "Moon" Sorted with
Harry a Muggleborn). 
> 
> Adult shipping. 

Oh, yes. I'm totally Sirius/Remus and McGonagall/Hooch, a bit Albus/Poppy.
> 
> Snape, 

A very popular topic.
There were quite a few women obsessed with him on Main List before 
the movie was even cast, so it is not all Rickman effect. Amanda, of
course, signs herself 'Snapeologist' and claims her fascination is all
intellectual, not erotic, but Dinah proclaimed that Severus is a
lovely name, she wouldn't mind naming her son Severus, in fact she
would like to name him Severus Snape, Jr.
> 
> The WW. Mirrors, rules for magic and magical objects, '(un)-'dead'
> or looking so creatures (threstrals here), power balance, laws, 
> ethics, divination, the sky,  plants, surface and underground 
> culture, dark arts...

What Steve b_boymn calls 'logical extrapolation about the wizarding
world'. I love it, too. WHY is there no Wizarding Wireless set
available to students at Hogwarts, at least for listening to the
broadcast of Quidditch matches?
> 
> That classes start every year the same day of week.

I wrote on Main List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/110094
<< Some things are different in magic places like Hogwarts than in
muggle places, like paintings that converse with viewers, and go visit
other paintings. Maybe the day of the week is one of those
differences. Maybe part of why the kids travel on the Hogwarts Express
is to move gradually from whatever day it was when they left London
into Sunday evening. I do wonder a little about ALL THOSE SUNDAYS and
no mention of ANYONE going to church or feeling bad about missing church.

The idea of September 2 is always a Monday reminds me of this poem by
Thomas Digby:
http://bubbles.best.vwh.net/poetry/EverybodyTalksAboutIt.txt
and while I was searching for it, I found this other poem that seemed
relevant to recent list dicussions:
http://bubbles.best.vwh.net/poetry/BlindWizard.txt >>




From saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 17:47:30 2004
From: saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid (Saitaina)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:47:30 -0700
Subject: Welcome!
References: <cgt3qu+b3a3@...>
Message-ID: <019601c48df0$42205860$01fea8c0@...>

Carolina, Ginger and June, welcome!  Pull up a
chair, grab a pastry of some kind and chat with
us!

Saitaina
Whose far too chipper this late in the day.
****
"...And you," Harry said to Draco. "Let me define
the term rescue to you. It's not to come and then
having to be saved yourself."

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on all this
and plow face-first into a tree because I was
looking the wrong bloody way. And I'll still be
having a better day than I am today."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From bekkio at mrsbekkio.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 17:57:56 2004
From: bekkio at mrsbekkio.yahoo.invalid (Bekki O)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:57:56 -0000
Subject: My Intro
Message-ID: <cgt5f4+524a@...>

Thanks for the invite!

***Name:
Bekki Olivieri

***Nicknames/IDs:
bekkio at most places, mrsbekkio on Y!M and AIM.  

***Age:
30

***Family:
Married, with 2 school-aged daughters

***Home
Aliso Viejo, CA

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
Sept. 10, Southern California

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
B.A. American Studies, minor in music
teaching credential in Social Sciences and English
Currently a stay-at-home mom, soon to be returning to teaching as a 
sub, occasional tutor

***Other things we might want to know about you:
Occasionally leans toward obsessiveness.  Also an ENFP.

***First contact with Harry Potter:
After brushing off suggestions that I read them, I finally succumbed 
when I saw the SS trailer in the theater.

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
Favorite book is OoP with PoA close behind.  Favorite characters are 
Hermione and Lupin.  I'm open to shipping almost anyone, as long as 
they're in character, and the fic is well-written.  I seem to be in 
a Snape/Hermione phase right now though.  I'm also starting to 
develop an HP tshirt collection, which will eventually be made into 
a quilt.

***Extent of Potter obsession:
I would say pretty extensive.  I find myself using adjectives 
like "Slytherin" when describing people.

***Other interests/activities:
Classical music, quilting, spending time with my girls

***Current/recent reading:
Various articles on English Language Development for an Education 
class I'm taking right now, for fun, I just finished the Dune 
prequels and I'm rereading the Hitchhiker's guide series.

***Current/recent listening:
Last CD bought: Sheryl Crow.  I also listen often to Paul Simon's 
Graceland, and anything by Me First and the Gimme Gimmes.  Plus 
random classical pieces played on the radio.

***Current/recent viewing:
Farscape and Firefly on DVD.  West Wing is next on my to-watch list.

Cheers!
Bekki





From voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 15:54:46 2004
From: voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid (voicelady)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:54:46 EDT
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Welcome!
Message-ID: <id.29082004115446.00000@FPE>

Let me add my welcomes to everyone, too! Hi!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carolina, Ginger and June, welcome!  Pull up a
chair, grab a pastry of some kind and chat with
us!

Saitaina
Whose far too chipper this late in the day.
****



From macloudt at macloudt.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 18:51:57 2004
From: macloudt at macloudt.yahoo.invalid (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:51:57 +0000
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Welcome!
Message-ID: <BAY15-F158ze70TOPc20004d11a@...>

Let me add my welcome to Carolina, Ginger and June. :)

**Wanders over to the ever-well-stocked snacking table***  I'd better bake 
something with maple syrup in it now I'm back in Canada...

Mary Ann
(yes, I'm still here!)





From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 21:15:11 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:15:11 -0000
Subject: Hi - and thanks..
Message-ID: <cgth0v+c4c7@...>

Kelley, we've been in contact offlist today already, but thanks again 
for inviting me...[and more hugs, ok..?]

Looking through the members list, it is kind of deja vu in a very odd 
sense for me. Quite a few of you will know that I am the person who 
has started the catalogue project, with the insane intent of reading 
and cataloguing every post on the Yahoo Club and current list. Yeah, 
I need my head examined. So far, I have coerced, 
bludgeoned, "charmed", call it what you will [they generally do], 
about a dozen other people to help me. Various list elves look on 
incredulously. And Paul Kippes makes it all work..what a guy.

But the point of mentioning all this is that I spend a fair few of my 
waking hours reading all the posts that the members of this group 
originally wrote. It is truly odd to suddenly find myself in your 
company, since very few of you post on main anymore. Bit like talking 
to the Hogwarts portraits and ghosts! Fortunately I have met Neil, at 
least, and he assures me he is only too real..<g>. We have a special 
category in the catalogue called 'just for a laugh', and guess who 
gets coded there most..

However, this also means that Heidi's post uplist about a 'newbie' on 
OTC complaining about the state of the list [it was me] is even more 
ironic than she intended. Since I was in the process of reading the 
whole list from the beginning, and had already read several sets of 
such complaints already (and you only had a c.1000 members at that 
point!), you could say I knew what she meant. Hope I was able to 
explain adequately offlist Heidi (?)

Erm, about myself..hate this bit. I'm a Brit, live in London. 
Background with large media groups - business and financial 
publishing. Run complicated network of reseach, training, publishing 
and conference businesses with various partners. 

Eng lit degree originally, still read very widely - revisiting old 
stuff, reading myself into new areas. First discovered HP just before 
POA was published, but didn't find HPfGU until the weekend OOP came 
out. I just needed to talk to people about it so much that I trawled 
the web following links till I found something intelligent. 

And one of the first things I read when I got to HPfGU was MD - and I 
have been terminally hooked on conspiracy theories ever since, the 
nastier the better. [Hi Carolina - she started the catalogue project 
with me, and Kneasy..you get the drift!]. 

But I hasten to assure you the catalogue will not be a biased 
bloodbath -we are tracking any idea that moves. I have learnt so much 
from all the amazing posts, its my way of giving something back.

Carolyn
Ahem, however, we have an agenda item with you CatLady..can you 
imagine the problems your posts cause us? Your current record number 
of individual topics is 21..and counting <g>. We love you, but..










From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 21:33:53 2004
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:33:53 -0000
Subject: Hi - and thanks..
In-Reply-To: <cgth0v+c4c7@...>
Message-ID: <cgti41+cakn@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:

> Ahem, however, we have an agenda item with you CatLady..can you 
> imagine the problems your posts cause us? Your current record number 
> of individual topics is 21..and counting <g>. We love you, but..

*grove* Can I pass the blame on to John Walton? When he was Moderator
with Rock #47, he constantly urged listies to minimize the number of
posts (but not of words) by combining topics.  




From nrenka at nrenka.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 22:07:22 2004
From: nrenka at nrenka.yahoo.invalid (Nora Renka)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:07:22 -0000
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <cgtk2q+q9sd@...>

I'm incredibly flattered to have been invited onto here, especially 
as I don't feel very old...thanks to my life right now, I feel 
incredibly young.  And I feel even younger looking at some of you on 
here, you true veterans...

For the obligatory about me part:  I'm a second-year graduate student 
in music history, probably going to write a Richard Strauss 
dissertation, but that's a little further off, and someone keeps 
trying to pull me into doing Gluck, for some reason.  Did my 
undergraduate work as a classicist, and still try to dabble in that 
every once in a while. 

Got into the fandom after I graduated from college, taking a year off 
and preparing applications--a friend of mine had been a big fan but 
I'd always been a skeptic, having a great love of fantasy novels but 
wondering why THIS series was getting all the attention.  Borrowed 
them, read them at work, and went on the Net to get some break from 
working, as my job at the time was hard-core catalog searching.  
Lurked for a while, then started to get confident enough to post...

Main discussion interests:

Analysis of the books (as opposed to either criticism or 
interpretation), and how to keep each beast separate.

Moral theories (Shklar's 'Ordinary Vices', especially) and reading 
the series in light of them.

Political organization in the WW, and the possibility of reading the 
series as a struggle for the Open Society.

Almost anything that's not shipping, to be honest.

I look forward to some fun discussions on here--now, anyone want to 
take my exams on Tuesday?  :)

-Nora considers listening to opera excellent studying for exams




From here_be_dragons at hebridean_black_dragn.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 22:39:43 2004
From: here_be_dragons at hebridean_black_dragn.yahoo.invalid (hebridean_black_dragn)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:39:43 -0000
Subject: ::waves hello::
Message-ID: <cgtlvf+a1oo@...>

Hi, everyone!

I was surprised (and pleased) to find this invitation in my inbox this
morning. I haven't been doing much HP theorizing lately, mostly
because I've found I can't keep up with the main list, so I stopped
trying. ::grin:: I do a bit on LiveJournal, though (mostly via
daily_snitch), and having some discussion here sounds great, too. 

Here's my intro:


***Name:
Wendy

***Nicknames/IDs:
Hebridean Black, Professor MacFusty, reginadibastoni (this is the YM
ID I use, but am hardly ever logged on), and most recently Here Be Dragons

***Age:
38

***Family:
Separated from my husband (but living in the same house), and mother
to a rather adorable (if I do say so myself ::grin::)
five-and-three-quarters-year-old son.

***Home
Currently, the Bay Area of California (San Ramon, in the East Bay, to
be more specific)

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
1 August, 1966; Los Angeles, California

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
Am currently a stay-at-home-mum, but plan to go back to school
sometime soon (probably next year). I have lots of credits, but no
degree as of yet, and I'd really like to finish it. Other than that,
I've worked mostly in bookstores and administrative assistant type
jobs. I know I don't want to go back to admin stuff, but I might
decide to do something with books in the future. Or one of the
sciences. I particularly enjoy physics.

***Other things we might want to know about you:
I like birding (and watching other wildlife), I read a lot (if you'd
like to see a list and reviews of the 80+ books I've read so far this
year, check out my LiveJournal), I sing for the Oakland Symphony
Chorus (soprano), and I'm on the board of directors, as well. Erm, my
best HP/British claim-to-fame is that I used to live in Scotland. Oh,
and that I've met Alan Rickman and Jason Isaacs (in fact, I met Isaacs
just a few weeks ago, and he was lovely, as was Rickman when I met him
a couple of years ago), and I once saw JKR shopping at John Lewis.
Can't think of anything else right now.

***First contact with Harry Potter:
Bought the first book because I have a step-son and nephews in the
right age-range for it. I didn't read it right away (but within a few
years of when it came out). I didn't read the others until early 2001,
though, and I didn't discover the fandom until after the first film
came out.

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
I have lots of favourite characters, but especially Lupin and Snape.
PoA is not only my favourite HP book, but one of my favourite books of
all time, and I would LOVE to have my memory of it obliviated so I
could read it again for the "first" time. My favourite (canon) ships
are: Lupin/Black, Crouch Sr./Winky. 

***Extent of Potter obsession:
Well, I was seriously obssessed there for a while, but that seems to
have passed. Now, I mostly have a bit of discussion now and again, and
I do have a fairly large collection of HP stuff (although I'm thinking
about culling some things out of the collection, when I can get my act
together on eBay). The biggest thing I'm doing right now is my
involvement in an HP RPG on LJ, which is LOTS of fun, but also takes a
surprisingly large amount of time. (The journal is hpfromtheashes if
anyone is interested in following it, or in playing - there are still
plenty of characters available). I'm also on the planning team for the
Lumos symposium scheduled for 2006.

***Other interests/activities:
Like I said above, reading, birding and music. I also like to do stuff
with my son - we go to planetariums and aquariums and places like that
fairly frequently. We went whale-watching together earlier this week.
I also sew and do other artsy sort of things (like working in stained
glass), and I enjoy a bit of gardening, particularly growing lavenders
(although I haven't been very attentive to them this summer;
fortunately, they don't really need much care in this climate).

***Current/recent reading:
About to start "The Kite Runner" by Khaled Hosseini.

***Current/recent listening:
Gipsy Kings, Loreena McKennett, Beethoven "Missa Solemnis" (as my
chorus sang it a few months ago). J.S. Bach is my all-time favourite,
so I listen to him regularly, as well. Getting ready to sing
Rackmaninoff's "Vespers," and the Bernstein "Mass," so I'll be hearing
quite a bit of them in the future. 

***Current/recent viewing:
Don't watch much TV; I loved the PoA film, and Shrek 2. And I watch a
fair number of Disney videos, Dragontales, and that sort of thing, for
obvious reasons. ::grin::


Anyhow, I'm glad to be here, and I look forward to chatting with all
of you in the future!

:-)
Wendy

http://here_be_dragons.livejournal.com
Commit random acts of literacy! See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/herebedragons 





From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 22:41:38 2004
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (harpdreamer)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:41:38 -0000
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Welcome!
In-Reply-To: <id.29082004115446.00000@FPE>
Message-ID: <cgtm32+jlbo@...>

Voicelady wrote: 

> Let me add my welcomes to everyone, too! Hi!

and I add a me too :)  Welcome, everyone new (and welcome back Mary 
Ann!)

Parker (who had to go to work today in the middle of a bloody 
Tropical Storm!)





From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 22:43:10 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:43:10 -0000
Subject: Hi - and thanks..
In-Reply-To: <cgti41+cakn@...>
Message-ID: <cgtm5u+o4v2@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" 
<catlady at w...> wrote:
> --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
> <carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> 
> > Ahem, however, we have an agenda item with you CatLady..can you 
> > imagine the problems your posts cause us? Your current record 
number 
> > of individual topics is 21..and counting <g>. We love you, but..
> 
Catlady:
> *grove* Can I pass the blame on to John Walton? When he was 
Moderator
> with Rock #47, he constantly urged listies to minimize the number of
> posts (but not of words) by combining topics.

Carolyn:
A person who shall remain nameless, but who I think will shortly join 
this group and can apologise for himself, made the semi-serious 
suggestion that you be asked to re-post all your ideas individually, 
right from the beginning...<g>

However, Paul has a plan for dealing with them now..never fear 




From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 22:51:34 2004
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (harpdreamer)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:51:34 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backslide (was Re: Welcome!)
In-Reply-To: <cgt2s6+6am4@...>
Message-ID: <cgtmlm+anik@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" 
<quigonginger at y...> wrote:
> That's BackSLIDE, not backSIDE.  Settle down, folks.

::Snaps fingers:: Gosh Darn, you had me going there for a second ;)  
> 
> Kelley wondered:
> > Just idly curious, to the folks for whom Snape is their biggest 
> > interest -- lately, due to both comments JKR's made on her site 
and in chats, I'm coming more to the idea that he's going to turn out 
> ESE after all (hm, or maybe he'll just backslide a bit).  No idea 
how many people already feel this way, but if he does turn out to be 
a bad guy after all, how would that affect your affinity for him?

I find him interesting more as a psychological study than anything 
else (Kelley knows, I think, that I'm in love with a certain 
werewolf).  

I'm really hoping she doesn't make him ESE, for like Ginger, I think 
then all those wonderful lines he has would be pure meanness, and not 
wit (and unlike Ginger, I've used some of them in RL).   

Besides, IMHO, she's got one heck of a lot to make up for with the 
next two books for OOtP (I still have not forgiven her for killing 
Sirius).   

Parker 







From silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid  Sat Aug 28 23:09:51 2004
From: silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid (silmariel)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:09:51 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Snape's Backslide (was Re: Welcome!)
In-Reply-To: <cgt2s6+6am4@...>
References: <cgt2s6+6am4@...>
Message-ID: <200408290109.51975.silmariel@...>


quigonginger wrote:
> I'm sure whichever way JKR goes, she'll do it well, but personally I
> hope he is on the side of good.  If he turns out to be ESE, then all
> those great lines are just meanness, and not a warped sense of
> humour, which I love as I have one too, but can only use around
> certain people.  And we get nasty!

Thanks for such a warm welcome :)

This will need further explanation and ties with Catlady's remarks.

<<A very popular topic.
There were quite a few women obsessed with him on Main List before 
the movie was even cast, so it is not all Rickman effect. Amanda, of
course, signs herself 'Snapeologist' and claims her fascination is all
intellectual, not erotic, but Dinah proclaimed that Severus is a
lovely name, she wouldn't mind naming her son Severus, in fact she
would like to name him Severus Snape, Jr.>>

I love the force and resources that this character can display. And the 
speeches, he wouldn't be attractive for me without his words. I read PS half 
a year before the release of the film, so it's not Rickman in my case.

I'd prefer him evil than uncoherent, if I have to choose. Whatever makes Jo 
with him, I don't want Snape acting OOC, and it is so easy to see him evil 
that I wouldn't mind. Quite another thing if (or when) our lovely lupin turns 
loose.

As an example, I'd be quite shocked if Lucius Malfoy sees the light and is 
turned into an all-loving person, and would demand my cruel, pureblood Lucius 
right back.

The couple of details are:  'Who would want to be in love with Snape?' and 
'after something about him you will discover'

Mmm if he is evil and ends murdering DD nothing to explain, really. If he is 
not, and she is referring to the nasty past life he should have, that's 
another question, because DD has been told his story and accepted it, so she 
has to build a past that justifies both lines, the 'who would want him? ' and 
DD's excuses for him.

Worst scenario for me, here? One I doubt she'll use, but... slaying your own 
family, or letting that happen. If she can get him out of *that* mess, I'll 
applaud. Not that we don't have precedents, as Arthur trying to burn Ginevre. 
Not entering on motives, imperios or especulations, the betrayal between the 
pair theme is there. 

And this question is so... subversive ... come on Jo, it is not a question of 
wanting to, those are the kind of things that can just happen... as curses, 
sometimes.  And it's not as if Snape has a neon warning he is an evil git, at 
least I doubt he had it in his teens. No, liking the dark arts doesn't count 
for me, I try to see from a not-Gryffindor pov.

Carolina
P.S. Carolyn, you don't know how glad I am that you've decited to 'out' the 
Catalogue, at least here... It's been so many months *not* talking of it <g>






From rynnewrites at rynne_lupin.yahoo.invalid  Sun Aug 29 23:20:56 2004
From: rynnewrites at rynne_lupin.yahoo.invalid (rynne_lupin)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:20:56 -0000
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <cgtoco+10so2@...>

Hello, all!  I certainly wasn't expecting to be invited here, but it 
was such a pleasant surprise. :)

A few basic things about me and my connection with HP...

My name's Rynne, and while I've been on the fringes of fandom since 
mid 2002, and getting more and more obsessed with it in 2003 (and 
2004, as is evidenced by how I'm here still *g*), I've been reading 
the books since 1997/8, whenever it was the PS/SS was released in 
America.

Being an aspiring writer, I *do* write fanfiction, and as I like 
theorizing too, I like using my fanfiction to explain a theory or new 
idea, and I like reading other fanfic that does the same.  Most of 
what I write, though, is based on my favorite ship, Remus/Sirius, my 
love of which is based off all the subtext in canon :).  Other ships 
I like are Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermione, the canon ships (Lily/James, 
etc), and various other ones that have little to no canon backing :p.

I am *cough* very obsessed with HP.  This has caused me to volunteer 
at places such as HPfGU and FA, write so much fanfic, and talk about 
little else in my livejournal besides fandom.

I actually tend to lurk in many discussions, soaking in all the 
lovely theories and designing my own that I hardly post 
anywhere...But I'm a real English geek, and I love analyzing books, 
so maybe now that here's a smaller list than HPfGU (Main), I can 
actually keep up and post without being so afraid that I'm just 
repeating what someone else said earlier!

I hope that I can get to know you all better, as new friends will 
never go amiss. :D

--Rynne




From kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 01:24:39 2004
From: kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (Kelley)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 01:24:39 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backslide (was Re: Welcome!)
In-Reply-To: <cgt2s6+6am4@...>
Message-ID: <cgtvkn+3e92@...>

Argh, had to go afk for a bit and now see that the reply I posted to 
this hours ago never went through.   Yahoomort, sigh.

Ginger:
> That's BackSLIDE, not backSIDE.  Settle down, folks.

Lol!  I'd made mention of is this Snape or is it tinged with 
Rickmania in the first post, but now I'm late as Rita's already 
commented.  I have to say, love Snape, have always found him to be a 
fascinating character, but my mental image of him never 
included 'attractive'.  JKR's drawing of Snape does look a lot better 
than my mental image, though...

> Kelley wondered:
> > but if he does turn out to be a bad guy after all, how would that 
> > affect your affinity for him?

Ginger:
> I'm sure whichever way JKR goes, she'll do it well, but personally 
> I hope he is on the side of good.  If he turns out to be ESE, then 
> all those great lines are just meanness, and not a warped sense of 
> humour, which I love as I have one too, but can only use around 
> certain people.  And we get nasty!

Yeah, I know what you mean; I've always believed he *is* on the side 
of good (for very dubious reasons?), but is generally just a 
misanthrope (who does he seem to genuinely like?  He respects DD, I 
think respects McG, but as far as actually liking anyone...) and that 
his natural personality works very well to serve his spy (double-
agent?) role.  (The Draco favoritism, etc.)

Whoo, I am *so* rusty at canon-analysis <g>; this is good motivation 
for a canon (esp. OoP) reread.  Amanda's going to take my LOON badge 
back... ;-)
 
> Ginger, who once threatened to have Kelley named as a deity should 
> I ever enter a polytheistic religion. (Remember that, Kelley?)

ROFL!  I do, though I just put that to your warped sense of humour. 
;-D

--Kelley, valiant Weeble in the battle against Yahoomort...




From arboyko at ochfd42.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 03:13:19 2004
From: arboyko at ochfd42.yahoo.invalid (Angela Boyko)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:13:19 -0600
Subject: Introduction
References: <cgtoco+10so2@...>
Message-ID: <002c01c48e3f$4ce0c7e0$ac5d9244@...>

Hi! I was surprised as well to be invited, but glad to join. My
participation in the main lists dropped almost three years ago, when I moved
across Canada and turned my life upside down.

My participation may have dropped, but not my interest. I was one of those
who polished off "Order of the Phoenix" the first day I got it, in nine
hours to be precise. I'm a speed reader. And a tad obsessive. ;-) I did take
breaks to eat, and to clear my head around Chapter 23, when I was feeling
overwhelmed.

I'm 38, I live in Calgary, I'm a reporting co-ordinator. I live with two
cats, and lots of Harry Potter Lego. I've written some fanfic, my very first
was "A Day in The Life of Lucius Malfoy", which was actually my reply to a
rhetorical question on the main list, when I was having a quirky day. I have
lots of quirky days. :-)

Looking forward to more participation,

Angela

@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you will land among the stars,"
    (attributed to Les Brown).
AIM:  angelamermaid  MSN messenger: angelamermaid
http://www.livejournal.com/users/angelamermaid/
http://www.cafeshops.com/neptunescats




From zanelupin at zanelupin.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 05:39:50 2004
From: zanelupin at zanelupin.yahoo.invalid (KathyK)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:39:50 -0000
Subject: OT:  More Than You Want to Know About KathyK
Message-ID: <cguej6+7k69@...>

Wow.  I'm flattered you invited me here and very surprised.  And 
glad.  Thanks!

***Name:
KathyK

***Nicknames/IDs:
yahoo id: zanelupin

***Age:
25 on Sept 19 *sniffle, sniffle*

***Family:
Let's see...I currently reside with my mother, younger brother, and 
his girlfriend.  It's way too crowded.  I have another brother who 
is married with an adorable three-year-old boy and I have many 
aunts, uncles, and cousins whom I adore.


***Home
Waterbury, Connecticut, USA, home of corrupt mayors and birthplace 
of corrupt governors

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
19 September 1979 in Cheshire, Connecticut...yeah, it's the next 
town over from my current location

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
An ever so useful BA in history.  I recently began hostessing at my 
uncle's restaurant (yay, nepotism!) because I'm very strapped for 
cash at the moment having spent all I have and then some on a nice, 
five-month trip to Australia.  My Main Goal right now is to get out 
of debt.  So I'm in the process of finding a second job to accompany 
the hostess gig. 

***Other things we might want to know about you:
I'm pretty sure I've said plenty and anything more will likely bore 
you. ;-)


***First contact with Harry Potter:
Movie the first released on video.  Bought and read books 1-4 within 
a week of seeing it.  After that I jumped straight into reading 
fanfic and following news on TLC.  Finally joined HPfGU right before 
OoP's release.  I haven't been posting much to the group since I 
came back but I've been off-listing people all over the place.  


***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
PoA is my favourite followed by OoP.  When I first read the books 
Lupin and Sirius were my characters of choice but now I have an 
inexplicable fascination with Petunia, Peter, and Percy.  My biggest 
obsession is trying to figure out Secret-Keeping and what happened 
at Godric's Hollow.  I used to like to argue that Petunia is not a 
witch or a squib, but JKR recently confirmed that.  I have yet to 
take on the assumption that she will be the one with latent magical 
powers in light of JKR's recent comments but when I do I'll still 
argue she won't be the one.  I am a fan of Pippin's ESE!Lupin even 
though I'm not sure I believe it-must wait till she finishes her 
updated version-and even though I don't believe it I still like to 
throw around that Lupin killed Sirius.  I don't like SHIPping; I 
think Harry will end up alone if he survives at all.  And though I 
understand Snape to be an interesting character, I do not like him, 
not one little bit.  

***Extent of Potter obsession:
Pre-Australia I was an active reader and somewhat active poster on 
HPfGU.  Now I'm an active reader and occasional poster.  I also am a 
moderator over at the Hogs_Head though that means very little most 
of the time since that list essentially runs itself.  I stopped 
reading fanfic some time ago because I get more value out of 
discussions than I do one person's interpretation of HP.  Plus, I 
can't write fic to save my life and therefore can't express my own 
views through that medium.  Also, I am a Witching Hour volunteer.  I 
own two copies of the first four books, one of the fifth, both 
movies on DVD, and a PS2 I bought specifically so I could play the 
CoS video game.  I bought a wand and a hufflepuff tie.  My very cool 
friend, Dooda, knitted me a gorgeous scarf to go with the tie. 

***Other interests/activities:
reading, writing things other than fiction, playing softball and 
volleyball, making icons for my LiveJournal, trying to find a job, 
Australian Rules Football, baseball, geneaology, catching up with 
friends I haven't seen in many months.

***Current/recent reading:
Rereading A Tale of Two Cities during the boring periods at work.  
Reading through my great-grandfather's scrapbooks while at home, 
trying to figure out why he chose to include the articles he did. 

***Current/recent listening:
Always Evanescence and the Beatles.  I'm going through Pete Murray 
withdrawl.  I listened to him a lot in Australia.  Must order his CD 
when I have some money.  

***Current/recent viewing:
Reruns of Law & Order and the X-Files.  

KathyK, writing too much




From tiggersong at tiggersong.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 05:53:10 2004
From: tiggersong at tiggersong.yahoo.invalid (tiggersong)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:53:10 -0000
Subject: Wow.  I'm an oldbie?
Message-ID: <cgufc6+nn4g@...>


***Name:
Song, or Tiggersong

***Nicknames/IDs:
Tiggersong, SongBird, The Knitting Guru, Mommy, Stasia
Tiggersong on YM

***Age:
34

***Family:
I have an 11 year old daughter, about to enter 6th grade.  My 
husband and I are amazed that she's gotten so old so quickly.  The 
food bills are killing us!  We have two cats (Butterbeer is the 
tradtional tortoiseshell, and Sugarquill is the muted 
tortoiseshell... fans?  Nah!) and a Guinea Pig named Cappucino.  
My uncle lives in Manhattan, and that's nicely far enough away, 
thank you.  My mother in law lives just across the Bay, but she 
doesn't drive, for which we thank every god ever created.  (She 
*can* phone, though.  Hmph.)

***Home
A small apartment in Oakland, California.  Just across the Bay from 
San Francisco.  Land of Fruits, Nuts and Flakes.

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
June 17, in Doctor's Hospital in New York.  

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
Um.  No college - I tried 3 times and never finished.  I've been an 
auto-didact since I discovered that books *taught* me things.  I'm a 
professional knitwear designer, knitting pattern designer and 
knitting teacher.  My role in life?  Uhhhhm...?  To foment goof-ball-
ness?

***Other things we might want to know about you:
I'm obsessive about fiber.  I love to knit, and spin and crochet 
and ... bead and work in polymer clay and cook and ... I'm arts and 
crafts oriented.

I'm very short.  I'm 4 feet 9 inches (in cms thats ... 142.5cm)  and 
have mainly tall friends.  Don't know why.  Opposites attract?

***First contact with Harry Potter:
My daughter's school librarian kept telling me there was this great 
series I should read and that my daughter would love.  Being the 
stick-in-the-mud I am, I figured that something "everyone" loved 
would be trash.  My husband got bored in the bookstore while our 
daughter read (and read and read and read), and idly picked up the 
hardback of CoS.  He read the first chapter and told me that we were 
getting the series as soon as they came out in paperback.  Oddly 
enough, now I'm HP obsessed and he's only interested.

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
My favorite book is PoA, but that might be because I find the adults 
much more interesting.  My favorite fics are The Lodger by Mad 
Martha and Icarus' Beg Me For It saga.

***Extent of Potter obsession:
Um.  Medium?  I'm a new elf over at Harry Potter for Grown Ups, and 
working hard at being good.  I can have an intelligent conversation 
about non-HP stuff, but find that there's a constant running 
monologue in my head about HP stuff in the middle of every 
conversation.  (Like: "You know, that reminds me of this fic I just 
read...")

***Other interests/activities:
*heh* Knitting.  Yarn, kids, comics, my husband, kitties, drawing, 
sunny days in the park...

***Current/recent reading:
I'm re-reading my Connie Willis books (they're all wonderful, by the 
way), and working on a book about the Civil War.

***Current/recent listening:
Gretchen Wilson, BareNakedLadies, Broadway soundtracks (Wicked was, 
forgive me, wicked).

***Current/recent viewing:
The Olympics (but they're over), Rescue Me, Queer Eye, Iron Chef....

Tiggersong





From judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 07:23:58 2004
From: judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid (Judy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:23:58 -0000
Subject: Hello!
Message-ID: <cgukme+eehv@...>

I'm very pleased to be invited here!  I see many familiar faces -- or 
at least familiar names -- of people who used to hang out at HPfGU, 
but don't any more.  I'm sometimes not very good about sending emails 
(I can actually be rather shy about it), so a nice cozy list like 
this is just the thing for keeping in contact!  And, I'm looking 
forward to meeting new folks here, too.


OK, here's my biographical material:

***Name/IDs:
Judy, Judy Serenity; Yahoo ID is JudyS32


***Age:
41


***Family:
Married fto an extremely nice guy named Tom.  No kids 
(unfortunately.) I have four fluffy feline furballs.  I have several 
nieces and nephews (mostly from Tom's side of the family), but the 
only ones I see much of are my sister's two boys.  


***Home
I live in the college town of Ann Arbor, Michigan.  Tom and I have a 
big, rambling old house that we are slowly fixing up. From time to 
time, you may hear me vent about how unpleasant it is to, say, 
have raccoons falling through the rotting ceiling over the parlor. 


***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
Went to University of Pennsylvania 1980-1984, then on to the 
University of Michigan, which is how I ended up in Ann Arbor. In 
1991, I got my PhD in Social Psychology, which is more like Sociology 
than Psychology.  Stuck in the "academic ghetto" of adjunct teaching, 
currently at a small Catholic college named Madonna University.  
Luckily, Tom is employed at the moment and doesn't seem to mind 
supporting me.  I'm also currently writing a book about a highly 
controversial person. 


***First contact with Harry Potter:
The first two books were included free with some toys that I ordered 
for my nephews.  My nephews already had the books, so I kept them. 
When the first movie came out, I thought, "Gee, I alread have the 
first book; I should read it before the movie spoils it for me." Next 
thing you know, I had to have *all* the books.  

At the time I finished the books (OoTP wasn't out yet), Tom was 
overseas for work, I was home alone on my birthday, the semester was 
over, and I was very bored.  So, I surfed the web looking for Harry 
Potter discussions. The next day, I sent Tom an email that said, "I 
found a great timewaster!  A Harry Potter discussion site with 
30,000+ posts on it!"  Well, that was an understatement -- I've 
probably spent thousands on hours on HPfGU since then. 



***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
Love PoA.  Big SnapeFan.  Lupin is also great.  Really not into most 
shipping.


***Extent of Potter obsession:
My Potter obsession has dwindled, sadly.  I still volunteer at HPfGU, 
but it's mostly because I'm afraid that if I quit, I'll lose contact 
with all the great fans I've met.


***Other interests/activities:
I love to travel. I'm hoping sometime to do a major trip where I 
visit lots of people I know from HP fandom! 

Big time Disney World Fan.  About two months ago, Tom bought me a 
great 10th anniversary gift -- membership in the Disney Vacation 
Club, which is Disney's version of a timeshare.  So, now we own 
something like .0004% of Disney's Boardwalk Hotel. (Well, until 2042, 
when it reverts back to Disney.) 

At various times in the past, I have done a lot of vegetable 
gardening. I volunteer to answer questions at the local Garden 
Hotline, but haven't actually gotten around to putting in much of a 
garden at my house. The fact that the previous owners paved almost 
the entire property doesn't help. 


***Current/recent reading:
Hardly ever read fiction -- I get too involved!
 

***Current/recent listening:
Disney showtunes.


***Current/recent viewing:
If I'm looking at a CRT, it's probably a computer screen, not a TV. 


-- Judy





From judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 07:46:41 2004
From: judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid (Judy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:46:41 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backsid-- er, BacksLide
In-Reply-To: <cgt1d4+qrpr@...>
Message-ID: <cgum11+a7r5@...>

<looks up, peers around eagerly>
Snape, Snape?  Did I hear someone say Snape?

Kelley wrote:
> Just idly curious, to the folks for whom Snape is their biggest 
> interest -- lately, due to both comments JKR's made on her site and 
> in chats, I'm coming more to the idea that he's going to turn 
> out ESE after all (hm, or maybe he'll just backslide a bit).  No 
> idea how many people already feel this way, but if he does turn out 
> to be a bad guy after all, how would that affect your affinity for
> him?

Hmmm.... if Snape turns out to be ESE, I will just have to sadly 
conclude that JKR failed to understand him.  (How's that for 
subverting the canon?) 

I'm not sure that JKR's comments mean that Snape is ESE.  I do think 
she intended him to be an unlikable person -- bitter, vindictive, and 
so forth -- and that she's perplexed by his many fans. She doesn't 
understand that we want to *save* him!  Snape clearly just needs my --
 er, I mean, *some* good woman's love.  (BTW, I'm not attracted to 
Alan Rickman, although he is a good actor. Too old to play Snape, 
though, I'd say.) 

In JKR's recent question-and-answer session, she was really dismayed 
about all the women who are attracted to Snape, Draco, and Lucius.  
She seemed genuninely worried that these women are attracted to cruel 
men in real life.  I think that's probably not often the case.  
Certainly, that's not the case in my life. (I do remember a very 
funny question, I think in was on OTC, where a guy asked, "What are 
the real-life partners like of all these women that adore Snape?"  My 
husband has nothing in common with Snape except intelligence.)

The thing is, one can interpret a fictional character as one pleases. 
The amount of information in the books about Lucius, Draco, or even 
Snape is miniscule compared to the information one would quickly 
acquire when dating an actual human. So, one can believe that Draco 
really was trying to save Hermione at the Quidditch World Cup, or 
that Snape only torments Neville in order to put on a good front for 
the DE's children, etc. When JKR provides incontrovertible evidence 
that a particular character is evil, then that character gets few 
fans -- I haven't come across many Voldemort fans, for example.  

If I ever get organized and actually *write* all these psychology 
books that are floating around in my head, I may someday write a book 
about sexual motivation.  Maybe I can have a chapter about 
Snapefans!  (I'd definitely want to speculate on why so many women 
are into Male/Male ships.) 

-- Judy




From vderark at hp_lexicon.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 13:24:23 2004
From: vderark at hp_lexicon.yahoo.invalid (Steve Vander Ark)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:24:23 -0400
Subject: Thoughts on HBP
In-Reply-To: <cgufc6+nn4g@...>
Message-ID: <mailman.13.1576054918.10649.the_old_crowd@archive.hpfgu.org>

If you are like me, you're probably already sick of discussions about who
the infamous Half-Blood Prince is. I happen to think that there's really no
way we can actually figure out who it is. I mean, would any of us have been
able to guess that the Prisoner of Azkaban was Sirius Black? No, not really.

So here's a more general question that I've wondered about. What's up with
the "Prince" thing? So far there has been no royalty of any kind mentioned
in the books. We've heard of the Muggle Prime Minister, but we haven't heard
mention of the Queen (or, I suppose, the king, depending on whether
Rowling's world matches our own exactly). Now suddenly we have a prince.
This implies a whole structure of royalty of which we've heard nothing. Is
there Wizarding royalty? Are some of the existing royals actually wizards
and witches? Is there a parallel line of magical royals, perhaps an unknown
branch of the royal family? Is there a completely separate wizarding royal
family? Or is this line of royalty non-British?

Someone recently sent me an email with a theory that the Half-Blood Prince
is Nearly Headless Nick. Their reasoning is based the fact that he refers to
himself as having "noble blood." I suppose that's pretty thin (the theory,
not the blood) but it's interesting. Mention of Nick made me think of the
Bloody Baron, which is another reference to--well, not royalty, but the
whole feudal system or whatever it's properly called. So what do you all
think about this? I asked this person to write up their ideas as a short
essay and I think I'll put it on the Lexicon. I'd love to include a few
comments from all you experts on this list. 

There you go. Tuck in.

Steve





From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 13:31:10 2004
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:31:10 -0000
Subject: A Proper Intro
In-Reply-To: <cgt5f4+524a@...>
Message-ID: <cgva6u+ffon@...>

***Name:
Ginger (really my given name is Karen, and my friends call me Kay-up 
until now, only Haggridd and Kelley knew that, so I guess I'm warming 
up to this whole internet thing.)

***Nicknames/IDs:
Um, just Ginger

***Age:
38

***Family:
Mom, dad, and a sister in Watertown, SD, and baby sister in Omaha, NE

***Home
Fargo, ND

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
June 17 (same as Tiggersong!) West Point NE, where I only lived for 2 
months, so I don't remember it.

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
Got a degree in music, but didn't want to teach, so now I work 4 days 
a week at a factory that makes sewer pipe fittings, and 3 days a week 
at a convenience store.  (I use the word "days" loosely- I work 
graveyards) I hope to be out of debt enough to go down to one job in 
a year or so.

 
***First contact with Harry Potter:
My cousin bugged me about reading them, but it was when SS was out in 
paperback, and a copy was placed in the books for sale at the c-store 
that I picked it up to see what the fuss was all about and was hooked
  
***Extent of Potter obsession:
Well, I'm here, aren't I?  I also tend to filk everything I hear.
 
***Other interests/activities:
With my work schedule, not much.  I substitute as an organist and 
Sunday School teacher.  I had a full time class, but it got to be too 
much.  I am very Snapey as a teacher, and the kids loved it!  I found 
you can silence a know-it-all by saying "Thank you, Hermione" and 
they all get it!
 
***Current/recent reading:
Well, I really don't read much, but a benefactor has recently sent me 
a whole bunch of the Discworld series, and I am enjoying them.  
(thank you, dear)
 
***Current/recent listening:
I really don't listen much.  I took vacation last month and listened 
in the car-Phantom of the Opera, the Nutcracker, the Roche's 
Christmas CD (don't leave home without it) 

***Current/recent viewing:
the last movie I saw was Star Wars II. (couldn't tell I'm a fan, 
could you?) I hate theatres, and I don't have much of an attention 
span.  I am, however, a Veggietales freak.  As for TV, the last 9 
things I watched were 3 superbowls, and 6 Detroit Lions games*.  That 
is in a 3 year span.

*Lion's motto: We're not mathematicly eliminated yet!
Motto, plan B:  There's always next year.

Ginger, who admits that she couldn't figure out how to do this and 
stole someone else's intro and put in her own answers. (shame)




From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 13:45:13 2004
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:45:13 -0000
Subject: Thoughts on HBP
Message-ID: <cgvb19+qloe@...>

Steve asked:
> So here's a more general question that I've wondered about. What's 
up with
> the "Prince" thing? So far there has been no royalty of any kind 
mentioned
> in the books. We've heard of the Muggle Prime Minister, but we 
haven't heard
> mention of the Queen (or, I suppose, the king, depending on whether
> Rowling's world matches our own exactly). Now suddenly we have a 
prince.
(snip)

Well, since you asked..
I don't think that the prince is a current role.  It will most likely 
be an historical figure (GG, SS,...) or a "prince" as a figure of 
speech.  Like Robin Hood was the "Prince of Theives" or the basilisk 
is the "King of Serpents".  I did come up with a theory that it was 
Trevor, as a basilisk is a chicken egg hatched beneath a toad, which 
would make Trevor a half-blood basilisk.  Either that or I just had a 
nice bowl of HBP noodle soup.  No one bought it.  Including me.

Seriously, I do lean more towards someone from the past.  Perhaps an 
ancient prophesy, or newly unearthed writings in which Harry learns 
some ancient magic long forgotten.

For what it's worth, Ginger




From ameliagoldfeesh at ameliagoldfeesh.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 14:25:05 2004
From: ameliagoldfeesh at ameliagoldfeesh.yahoo.invalid (ameliagoldfeesh)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:25:05 -0000
Subject: An Introduction
Message-ID: <cgvdc1+cgtd@...>

 
     I was surprised and flattered to be invited to this list, 
especially since I'm not that much of a poster.  I will admit that I 
did have my reservations at first, recalling how I'd first heard of 
this group and what I thought of it at the time.  But seeing the 
people who are here and knowing that I'll stay active...er, lurkive? 
on my other lists has gotten rid of most of my self-hypocritical 
feelings. Heh.  Thank you for inviting me. :)


***Name: 
     Amy

***Nicknames/IDs:
     Amelia Goldfeesh (though now I wish I'd just went with 
Goldfeesh as it is SO much shorter to type!)
Nectarine- on ISCA BBS

***Age:
     28

***Family:
     I currently live with my fiance, Larry, with the plans to get 
married before the next month is out.  My parents and siblings, plus 
their families, live about 2.5 hours away in southwestern Iowa which 
is definitely too far.  Ideally, I'd be 5 minutes to an hour away.

***Home
    Ames, Iowa, in a traile..err, I mean a *modular* home- a nice 
place, but I'd prefer owning the land and having a basement. :)  
Soon as my fiance gets a job in his field we may be moving.  
Hopefully nearer to the aforementioned family and to a small town 
with less traffic and lower housing prices.


***Birthday, Place of Birth:
    12/18/76,  Hamburg, IA, which had the closest hospital to my 
hometown of Tabor.

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
     Well, I have a BS in history, while Larry has one in 
Business/Accounting.  I'm using my degree quite well as a... 
overnight cashier at Walmart. Could be worse.  Larry is also at 
Walmart while diligently trying to find work in his field.  
I'm considering going back and getting a degree in Library Science 
which I should have done from the get-go.

***Other things we might want to know about you:
     I have a herd of rats- 23 (nature unintentionally took its 
course a couple of times), who are all cute, fairly smart, and 
adorable and mostly named *L*.  I also have a large tank of large 
goldfish, three of which I've had for around four years and are big 
fellows.

***First contact with Harry Potter:
     My best friend was reading SS and I mocked her for reading 
a "kid's book."  She ignored me and said she'd lend it to me, I was 
like "whatever."  Well, you see what came of that.  It was around 
the time that POA came out as I recall.

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
    I'm another who'd say Snape- he took my interest in GOF- the 
whole "Egg and the Eye" and Dark Mark revelation scenes.  I get a 
kick out of Ron, he seems so normal.  Love the Trio, McGonagall.  
Started out liking both Sirius and Lupin a lot after POA but lost 
some respect for both of them, partially due to discussions on 
HPFGUs.
     POA is my favorite book, but I've noticed that OOP got much 
better after a couple of re-reads.

***Extent of Potter obsession:
     Not as obsessed as I used to be, I rarely read fanfic anymore, 
but I do like the Potter series more than anyone else I know 
personally other than my best friend.


***Other interests/activities:
     Dylan, the Beatles, reading, indifferent gardener/yardworker 
but with aspirations if I got less lazy.  I love good old movies and 
the classic actors and actresses such as Stewart Granger, Deborah 
Kerr, Eleanor Parker.  Current favorite is Pierce Brosnan- so glad 
he's getting out of the Bond franchise, I hope he stays with his low 
key movies and avoids some of the big-budget garbage (Tailor of 
Panama, anyone?)

***Current/recent reading:
     Currently reading the Silmarillion, always love a good David 
McCullough history.  I haven't been reading enough recently.


***Current/recent listening:
     The day before last I saw Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson in Des 
Moines!  Bob was awesome as usual, but I thought Willie Nelson would 
have been better.  I've seen Dylan about 14 times now...I've lost 
count.  I also love Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Beatles 
(together and individually), John Mellencamp, John Denver, and a few 
more I'll probably think of later.


***Current/recent viewing:
     I haven't been watching too much TV recently, when I do it is 
the History Channel, Discovery, HGTV (those darn Mission 
Organizations are addicting- if I'd only put my knowledge to 
practice!) CNN, and the classic movie channels.




From judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 14:30:31 2004
From: judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid (Judy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:30:31 -0000
Subject: Thoughts on HBP
Message-ID: <cgvdm7+vjrv@...>

Steve wrote:
>... What's up with the "Prince" thing?
>  So far there has been no royalty of any kind mentioned
> in the books. ... Is
> there Wizarding royalty? 

Steve, one thing to consider is that the HBP isn't necessarily a 
wizard.  For that matter, he doesn't even have to be *human*.  I saw 
a theory that the HBP is Hagrid, and that seems posisble to me -- 
Hagrid is certainly a half-blood.  The pathetic remnant of giants 
seems to have a chieftain type of government, so perhaps they had a 
king back when they were larger and more organized.

On a completely different topic, Ginger said:
> she couldn't figure out how to [format the intro post] and
> stole someone else's intro and put in her own answers. 

Me, too -- isn't that what we were supposed to do?

-- Judy





From elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 16:59:07 2004
From: elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid (elfundeb)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:59:07 -0400
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Thoughts on HBP
Message-ID: <002801c48eb2$aa05b480$1502a8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP>

Welcome to all the newcomers!

There are many other things I *should* be doing, but this is a topic I have not yet weighed in on in any forum. 

Steve wrote:

<<If you are like me, you're probably already sick of discussions about who
the infamous Half-Blood Prince is.>>

I know what you mean, Steve!  It was getting monotonous even before I posted the poll on HPFGU (which I have never voted in, for reasons I discuss below).   

<<So here's a more general question that I've wondered about. What's up with
the "Prince" thing? So far there has been no royalty of any kind mentioned
in the books. We've heard of the Muggle Prime Minister, but we haven't heard
mention of the Queen (or, I suppose, the king, depending on whether
Rowling's world matches our own exactly). Now suddenly we have a prince.
This implies a whole structure of royalty of which we've heard nothing. Is
there Wizarding royalty? Are some of the existing royals actually wizards
and witches? Is there a parallel line of magical royals, perhaps an unknown
branch of the royal family? Is there a completely separate wizarding royal
family? Or is this line of royalty non-British?>>

Even while I was fiddling with the HBP poll options, I had the nagging feeling that the HBP was not a person, but rather a myth or idea going back to the earliest days of wizarding history, that (like the Basilisk rumors) is in modern wizarding times generally believed to be a bunch of nonsense.  Or, as someone posted recently to HPFGU, a legend.

I've never had time to think through exactly what the HBP idea was, though if pressed I'd say either that it was a messianic prediction or an Arthurian-type legend.  Either way, my assumption was that it dated back to the earliest days of wizarding history, well before the split between the WW and the muggle world.  Since concepts of royalty have been around for millenia, and at least in England wizards would likely have considered themselves crown subjects prior to the split, the WW would have a full understanding of royalty.  Thus, the concept of the half-blood prince would be perfectly logical to the WW, even though they had adopted a non-monarchical form of government for wizarding matters.  (In fact they may have deliberately created a non-monarchical internal government because they considered themselves subjects of the crown.)

<<Someone recently sent me an email with a theory that the Half-Blood Prince
is Nearly Headless Nick. Their reasoning is based the fact that he refers to
himself as having "noble blood." I suppose that's pretty thin (the theory,
not the blood) but it's interesting. Mention of Nick made me think of the
Bloody Baron, which is another reference to--well, not royalty, but the
whole feudal system or whatever it's properly called. So what do you all
think about this? I asked this person to write up their ideas as a short
essay and I think I'll put it on the Lexicon. I'd love to include a few
comments from all you experts on this list.>>

Setting aside momentarily whether either Nearly Headless Nick or the Bloody Baron could be the HBP, I don't think it's surprising that there are witches and wizards with noble blood.  My assumption has always been that the Bloody Baron was a muggle baron (not a muggle, of course; I mean that his family was a wizarding family living in the muggle world before the split which, according to the Lexicon, did not take place until 1692, 200 years *after* Nick was nearly beheaded).  Undoubtedly there are other such noble wizarding families, including "the Noble and Most Ancient House of Black."  

But I don't think any known wizard with noble blood is the HBP.  I think the point is that nobody in the WW really knows if the HBP really exists, or who it is (or was).

Debbie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From here_be_dragons at hebridean_black_dragn.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 17:20:16 2004
From: here_be_dragons at hebridean_black_dragn.yahoo.invalid (Wendy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:20:16 -0700
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Thoughts on HBP
Message-ID: <410-220048130172016335@...>

Ginger:
>I don't think that the prince is a current role.  It will most likely 
>be an historical figure (GG, SS,...) or a "prince" as a figure of 
>speech. 

Wendy:

Right now, I'm also speculating that the HPB is an historical person, rather than someone Harry will actually meet. My current "theory" (using the term loosely, as there's no canon one way or another to support it) is that the HPB was a member of actual Muggle royalty, back around the time that Hogwarts was founded. His father was the ruler (of Britain, or perhaps somewhere else), and was married to a witch (although he didn't know she was one when he married her). I think that this child attended Hogwarts, but in this case, the mixing of the Muggle and Wizarding worlds was *not* a success, and it led to a further breakdown between the two worlds. Perhaps (because this was the child of a powerful Muggle father, whom was not happy about his child being magical), there was some incident (perhaps an attack on the Wizarding World) which drove Slytherin to believe that Muggle-borns couldn't be trusted, or "confirmed" that suspicion he'd had all along. So, what's really important about the HPB isn't so much that his presence created trouble between the wizarding and Muggle worlds, but that it started (or exacerbated)the rift between the pureblood wizards, and those who had Muggle blood (or were supportive of welcoming Muggle-borns into the community). The irony here is that both Salazar and Gryffindor would have been "right" - Salazar would be right in saying that Muggleborns posed a danger to the community, but Godric would *also* have been right in saying that it's not right to exclude them based on their birth. I like this because it (for me) puts both of them in a more sympathetic light, rather than having Slytherin be little more than the embodiment of bigotry. He had good reason to turn against Muggleborns at the time, even though that still doesn't make his attitude "right." 

In the current day, this will become important because Harry will have to understand the events that led to this rift (between pureblood and not), because I suspect that part of what he will do, before the series ends, is help to bring the whole of the wizarding world back together in a way they have not been since the time of Godric and Salazar. (After getting rid of all those meanie Death Eaters, that is). :D

:-)
Wendy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From here_be_dragons at hebridean_black_dragn.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 17:20:39 2004
From: here_be_dragons at hebridean_black_dragn.yahoo.invalid (Wendy)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:20:39 -0700
Subject: [the_old_crowd] An Introduction
Message-ID: <410-220048130172039839@...>

Ginger:
>The day before last I saw Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson in Des 
>Moines!  Bob was awesome as usual, but I thought Willie Nelson would 
>have been better.

Wendy:

I saw Willie Nelson years ago, in Bakersfield, CA, and it still goes down in my memory as the worst concert I have ever seen. He came on stage, played his songs at about twice their normal speed, and only half the verses, and was finished in about half an hour. (And he was the headliner). Not impressed. 

:-)
Wendy


Wendy St John
http://here_be_dragons.livejournal.com
Commit random acts of literacy! See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/herebedragons 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From annemehr at annemehr.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 20:07:14 2004
From: annemehr at annemehr.yahoo.invalid (annemehr)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:07:14 -0000
Subject: An(other) Introduction
In-Reply-To: <cgvdc1+cgtd@...>
Message-ID: <ch01di+p4oa@...>

I'm very honored to be in this group -- thanks for the invitation! I
don't know if I'm "the old crowd," exactly, but I'm maybe a "tweenbie"
-- I found HPfGU in September '02. Some time before that, I belonged
to the Rowling house at a site called The Reader's Vine, which had
fora sorted according to genre and author -- it was a lot of fun, but
it just disappeared one day.

*waving to people I know, as well as some respected names from back in
the HPfGU archives*

> 
> ***Name: 
~Anne
> 
> ***Nicknames/IDs:
~Annemehr. Also, FlyOnTheWall at the Leaky.
> 
> ***Age:
~44
> 
> ***Family:
~I'm married with three children, ages 9, about-to-turn-12, and 14. We
all read HP, but I'm the obsessed one.
> 
> ***Home
~Pittburgh, Pennsylvania. I really like this place. Lots of my
extended family are here, too, while a few are in interesting places
to visit.
> 
> 
> ***Birthday, Place of Birth:
~2 July 1960, in Pittsburgh.
> 
> ***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
~I have a BS in Physics, but I should have gone into art instead --
would have been much more practical (not to mention, fun!). Currently
still at home -- we ran the numbers, and it makes more sense -- so I'm
going to take some (what else?) art classes, and see how far I can go.
> 
> ***Other things we might want to know about you:
~Ummm...I'm much more boring in Real Life!
> 
> ***First contact with Harry Potter:
~March 1999, we heard by word of mouth (I think it was two mouths,
actually) that "kids seem to really like those Harry Potter books," so
we got the first one for our daughter's birthday. Since she made the
effort to get CoS and then PoA from the library, I tried SS, then read
the library copy of PoA as CoS was returned already. The week GoF came
out, I picked up SS for the second time ever and read the passage
where Harry bought his wand, and that's when the *tingle* ran up and
down my spine -- I was obsessed from that moment, and just had to buy
*all* the books.
> 
> ***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
> d'Art, general enthusing):
~The books come first with me, and GoF and OoP are my favorites.
Favorite characters are Harry, Harry, Harry, Ron, Snape, Hermione,
Neville, Lupin, Arthur, Luna, Lucius, Vernon. The last two, to see how
evil they can get. I also have a soft spot for Molly and Percy, and
love reading Fred and George. I don't have strong shipping
preferences, but I'd love to see Harry have a little fun! Favorite
fanartist is Marta at artdungeon.net, and of course I'm really taken
with Jo's official site.
> 
> ***Extent of Potter obsession:
I spend lots of time in the fandom, mostly in groups like this, and
also on the Leaky Cauldron. I really like the Leaky -- it's a whole
different slice of fandom, besides being where I get all my news. I'm
not into fanfic yet, because I can't afford the time, though I
cerainly intend to eventually. And of course, I never go very long
without dipping into HP canon one way or another...
> 
> 
> ***Other interests/activities:
~Recently uncovered my sewing maching and made a Renaissence-type vest
for a costume to get into the front rows of a Blackmore's Night
concert. Intend to make cloaks for oldest daughter and me for The
Witching Hour. Also self-teaching piano and trying to reorganise
remodeled house (everything's in the wrong room!).
> 
> ***Current/recent reading:
~Recently finished The DaVinci Code (not as good as HP!), now reading
Kafka's _The_Trial_, as well as GoF to son and OoP to daughter.
> 
> 
> ***Current/recent listening:
~Just the radio in the car these days...
> 
> 
> ***Current/recent viewing:
~Now the Olympics are done, network news and Fox News. Need a new show
in the vein of Twin Peaks/X-Files/Charmed. Anything good coming on
this fall?




From nrenka at nrenka.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 20:20:07 2004
From: nrenka at nrenka.yahoo.invalid (Nora Renka)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:20:07 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backsid-- er, BacksLide
In-Reply-To: <cgum11+a7r5@...>
Message-ID: <ch025n+cjt9@...>

One exam down--it's time to decompress...with literary theory...

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Judy" <judy at j...> wrote:
 
> Hmmm.... if Snape turns out to be ESE, I will just have to sadly 
> conclude that JKR failed to understand him.  (How's that for 
> subverting the canon?) 

Since I know you didn't *actually* mean that, I'll spare everyone the 
comments about how new canon has to be read backwards to reinterpret 
old canon, the game she's playing is like revealing bits of a picture 
to deliberately confuse us when she has the whole visible to her, and 
that everyone's fundamental actions and characters have been largely 
settled from the beginning, even though we don't know them yet... :)

> I'm not sure that JKR's comments mean that Snape is ESE.  I do 
> think she intended him to be an unlikable person -- bitter, 
> vindictive, and so forth -- and that she's perplexed by his many 
> fans. She doesn't understand that we want to *save* him!  Snape 
> clearly just needs my -- er, I mean, *some* good woman's love.  
> (BTW, I'm not attracted to Alan Rickman, although he is a good 
> actor. Too old to play Snape, though, I'd say.) 

I actually think that she does understand that--but she knows him, 
what he is, how he thinks, and I don't think that Snape such as he 
actually is, when we find out what makes his little head tick, is 
going to be the 'saved by the love of a good woman' type.  I don't 
think he's ESE, but I also think she's a little boggled and mayhap 
even frustrated by the level of apologia that goes on--I'm faintly 
remembering the comment about how children know an unfair teacher for 
what he is and don't try to make excuses (of course, I could be 
remembering completely wrongly).

The sheer level of fandom for Snape has always confused me just a 
little bit for one reason--none of ya'll know who he is, really, and 
I don't either.  There's an amazing amount of sheer projection that 
goes on in any Snapediscussion, far more than literature tends to 
provoke in general.  This is, of course, fine for everyone's own 
personal reading and chatting (I am not an enforcer of orthodoxy by 
any means!), but it's more than a lil' frustrating when trying to 
argue more analytically, or solidly support an argument.

<snippity>

> The thing is, one can interpret a fictional character as one 
> pleases.  The amount of information in the books about Lucius, 
> Draco, or even Snape is miniscule compared to the information one 
> would quickly acquire when dating an actual human. So, one can 
> believe that Draco really was trying to save Hermione at the 
> Quidditch World Cup, or that Snape only torments Neville in order 
> to put on a good front for the DE's children, etc. When JKR 
> provides incontrovertible evidence that a particular character is 
> evil, then that character gets few fans -- I haven't come across 
> many Voldemort fans, for example.  

You haven't been lookin' in the right places...

But the thing is, if you have any concern about the supportability of 
your interpretation, it's definitely *not* an anything goes world.  
In both of the examples above, it's always seemed to me that both 
were resting upon some sort of hope for future validation.  The Draco 
one got pretty sporked by, ummm, his general behavior in OotP, 
largely because it was pretty odd to start with.  If you want to run 
a subversive reading, a lot of the time it ends up rather like 
rolling Sisyphus' rock up the hill because of the amount of 
explaining away that you have to do--Draco's consistently negative 
attitude towards Hermione, for example.  The second example has been 
pretty wounded in the interviews (which there's a cottage industry of 
saying 'oh, she didn't really mean that' on), and I suspect is going 
to die a solid canonical death one of these days.

Interpretation, with any rigor behind it, is all about trying to make 
as many things as possible hang together.  JKR's mysteries tend to be 
mysteries largely because we don't have complete information--when we 
do, everything falls together so cleanly.  Like the prophecy...it's 
impossible to accurately predict forward *from* it, but the solution 
is going to rebound very nicely backwards *onto* it.

> If I ever get organized and actually *write* all these psychology 
> books that are floating around in my head, I may someday write a 
> book about sexual motivation.  Maybe I can have a chapter about 
> Snapefans!  (I'd definitely want to speculate on why so many women 
> are into Male/Male ships.) 

I'll admit to hating shipping with a passion, but there's one easy 
answer to that question that works across fandoms: the male 
characters are more interesting, or there's more of them.  Combine 
that with the unfortunate tendency to think of everything in terms of 
pairings, and why not?  There's always the other easy answer: because 
they like reading it...

-Nora gets ready for even more exam fun tomorrow




From grahadh at grahadh.yahoo.invalid  Mon Aug 30 22:59:47 2004
From: grahadh at grahadh.yahoo.invalid (Dhyana)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:59:47 -0000
Subject: Hi Everyone
Message-ID: <ch0bh3+nsu9@...>

Thank you very much for inviting me to join this group!  I was pleasantly 
surprised and flattered to find the invitation in my mailbox yesterday morning.  
I am looking forward to more HP discussions and to getting to know everyone 
here. :)

***Name:
     Dhyana Graham

***Age:
     25

***Family:
     I am married to my high school sweetheart, Justin. We have one tiny, black 
dog named James.  I have three younger sisters, and a mom who all live 
about an hour away.

***Home:
    Columbus, OH.  We are currently renting a loft-style apartment with a view 
of downtown, which we love.  But we are hoping to purchase a home within 
the next year or so.


***Birthday, Place of Birth:
    1-27-79,  Racine, WI.

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
     I have a BA in Human Development and Social Relations from Earlham 
College, a tiny Quaker school in Richmond, Indiana.  I am currently teaching 
pre-school in one of the suburbs of Columbus, which is nice because I sort of 
reverse commute; I go to the `burbs to work and come home to the city. :)

***Other things we might want to know about you:
     My name is Sanskrit and is pronounced "John-a" ([dh/soft d]+[y]=J). Justin 
and I both grew up in Yellow Springs, Ohio which is a tiny, hippie, college 
town near Dayton.

***First contact with Harry Potter:
  My youngest sister loved Harry Potter for years before the rest of us caught 
on; I remember her disappearing into her room for two days after GoF came 
out.  I borrowed her copy of SS in August 2001, so that I could read it before 
the movie came out.  After that, I went out and bought my own copies of the 
first four books, and my life hasn't been the same since.

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets d'Art, general 
enthusing):
    I love Harry himself, of course, and also Ron, Hermione, Gred and Forge, 
OoP Ginny, Dumbledore, & Lupin.  I was an OBHWF shipper, before I knew 
about "shipping."  PoA is my favorite HP book and my favorite HP film.

***Extent of Potter obsession:
     I own three copies of SS/PS, 2 of CoS, PoA, GoF, but only one of OoP, both 
movies on DVD, and audio recordings of CoS & PoA on CD and GoF & OoP 
on tape. I am a new elf at HPfGU, still learning the ropes, but enjoying myself. 


***Other interests/activities:
     I *love* to go to the movies.  I'm trying to cook more, but it's just so much 
easier to order out.  I also love listening to all kinds of music, reading, and 
playing board games.

***Current/recent reading:
     I just finished The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver, which was 
excellent.  Next on the night stand is Bastard Out of Carolina by Dorothy 
Allison.

***Current/recent listening:
     Right now I'm getting hyped for Ani DiFranco's next stop in Columbus 
(October 1st!) by listening to her albums as often as I can.  At work we've been 
rocking out to They Might Be Giants' children's album "NO!"

***Current/recent viewing:
     Lately I've been into watching our DVDs of The Office, I'm always amazed 
that a show can be so hilarious and so painful to watch at the same time.






From crabtree at professorphlash.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 02:54:12 2004
From: crabtree at professorphlash.yahoo.invalid (Jo)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:54:12 -0000
Subject: OK...OK... I'm already feeling like the last one to jump in. (Intro) ; - )
Message-ID: <ch0p8k+rg03@...>

Hi, ya'll,

My mama always told me that God gave me two eyes, two ears, and one 
mouth for a reason. I always figured that ment I should watch and 
listen twice as much as I talk.  I just haven't yet decided how ten 
fingers and a keyboard fit into the equation.  I do tend to lurk in 
all of my HP groups, but I attribute that to the lack of power in a 
post that reads, "Me too!"  

I was delighted to receive the invitation.  Just being part of 
the "Old Crowd" puts me in company with greats such as Mundungus 
Fletcher and Arabella Figg.  If I don't get cursed while my back is 
turned, I will certainly get whopped with a bag of cat food. Both of 
these are among my favorite characters, along with Archie from World 
Cup fame.  

Enough of that; now this is me:

*** Name:
Jo...Not Joan, Not Joanne, Not Josephine, Not even Josefa

***Nicknames:
To my on line friends, my school librarian, and even to the 
Renaissance Learning Company I am Professor Phlash. 

***Age:
I just turned 51.

***Family:
I am married to a somewhat less that obsessed HP fan (but a fan none 
the less) who is is patient with my obsession.  He even feeds my 
obsession by gifting me with the "Time Turner" for my birthday.  It 
is on order but isn't to be shipped until October.  I have a son who 
is a loan officer at the local bank and a daughter who is a 20 year 
old college senior. She is also a fan and tells anyone who will 
listen that her cool mom is part of this online community of HP fans.

***Home:
Junction, TX (middle of no where)

***Born:
August 17 in Nacogdoches

*** Education/Job/Role in life etc.
I have a BSEd in Elementary Education along with several post 
graduate courses, Special Education Certification, and countless 
professional development trainings.  I have taught Elementary 
Physical Education, Special Education, and fifth grade. This is my 
12th consecutive year in fifth grade.  I am known locally as the 
Harry Potter teacher, which in itself is filled with blessings and 
curses.  (Mostly blessings.)

***Other things we might want to know about you:
I just ordered the first five books from amazon.com.uk.  When I told 
my husband, he asked me why I wanted them.  I told him that I wanted 
to read them in the original language and that no one I knew had 
them.  He just laughed.

***First contact with Harry Potter:
September of 1999, my then principal held up a current Time magazine 
that had a picture of Harry on the cover during a faculty meeting and 
told us that it might be something worth checking out.  My mama 
always told me to mind your manners and do what your boss tells you. 
Not really interested in fantasy (SciFi yes, fantasy no) I bought the 
first two books. The students begged me to let them read them as soon 
as I got them, so I did.  When I finally reluctantly read the the 
first chapter, I was hooked - Thank you very much!  Life has never 
been the same, and I am delighted.  It was June of 2001 when I found 
the Harry Potter for Grown-Ups group.  I posted a few times but 
mostly just read. 

***Favorite Potter things:
Harry, my Dumbledore watch, Dumbledore himself, Ron, Hermione, Harry 
Lupin, Mrs. Figg, Dung, the twins, Harry, Dragons, Quidditch, flying, 
imagining flying on a Firebolt, Wood, Harry, and Krum. I am very 
curious about Krum.

***Extent of Potter Obsession:
I fit right in with this crowd.  In the other world (the non HP 
world) I have found that I, like the witches and wizards in Harry's 
world, have to be careful how much I let others see.  Everyone knows 
I am a fan; few, however, know the extent of my obsession. I have 
been keeping notebooks of interesting things I have found on the 
internet or in other places for years now. I have several notebooks 
full of stuff.  Yes, I use the excuse that it gets the students 
interested in reading (and it does), but I have to admit that I just 
enjoy looking at the stuff myself.

***Other interests/activities:
I read, tat...(do tatting?)...(make lace with a tatting shuttle), 
crochett, teach Bible class, watch movies, and teach.

***Current/recent reading:
I read lots of children's literature in the process of finding new 
and interesting things for my students to read. I am hooked on the 
Pendragon series by MacHale, City of Ember and People of Sparks, 
Margaret Peterson Haddix's Among the Hidden series, Cornelia Funke's 
Thief Lord and Inkheart and I am now reading Dragon Rider.  Which 
reminds me that Eragon is also a favorite.  Just this weekend I found 
Gifts by Ursula K. Le Guin and loved it.  I read Shadowmancer last 
week and found it dark and troubling.  

***Current/recent listening:
Acapella, Mountaintop, PoA soundtract

***Current/recent viewing:
Usually I go to lots of movies, but I have not seen many recently. I 
think the Bourne Supremacy was the last one.


If you have made it his far, you have earned a stinky sticker for 
determination.  Just come by my classroom and I will be glad to let 
you choose the one you would like.  

I am really happy to be a part of this group.

Professor Phlash
5th Grade 
Muggle Studies

(or Jo if you would rather)








From arboyko at ochfd42.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 02:45:49 2004
From: arboyko at ochfd42.yahoo.invalid (Angela Boyko)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:45:49 -0600
Subject: Take 2: The Hello
References: <cgva6u+ffon@...>
Message-ID: <003901c48f04$9ff82f20$ac5d9244@...>

Yahoo ate my first intro. Bad Yahoo, bad!

 ***Name:
Angela.

***Nicknames/IDs:
You can call me Ang if you like. The Forbidden Name is Angie.
My usernames are Neptune42 and Angelamermaid, depending on where I am.

***Age:
38

***Family:
My family here in Calgary are my two cats, and to a lesser degree, my fish.
My parents, brother, sister-in-law, nephew and niece are all in New
Brunswick.

***Home
Calgary, Alberta

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
March 14, Vancouver, British Columbia. I was an army brat. My father was
posted overseas twice, to the Canadian embassies in Belgrade and Moscow.

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
I have two and a half years worth of credits for a B.A. If I ever complete
it, my major will be English Lit. I have a diploma in graphic arts.
My job is ... reporting coordinator. I work with Excel. Because I used to
work with people, and I am happy that Excel doesn't have feelings.
Outside of work, I'm very creative and artistic and crafty, can't keep my
hands still!

***First contact with Harry Potter:
Heidi Tandy brought up the books first, on an e-mail list many many moons
ago. Like, after CoS. I am ashamed over how long it took me to start
listening to her.

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets d'Art,
general
enthusing):
I'm a Ron/Hermione shipper, thanks to a really good fanfic. And I would
really like to move to Hogsmeade.

***Extent of Potter obsession:
I didn't pick up any of the books until the hullabaloo about GoF being
published. I bought SS, let it languish on my computer table for a month
before opening it ... and I was hooked. I had all four books read within a
month. I pre-ordered OoTP and read it in 9 hours.

I've written some fanfic, my very first was "A Day in The Life of Lucius
Malfoy", which was actually my reply to a rhetorical question on the main
list, when I was having a quirky day. I have lots of quirky days. :-)

And I have a Harry Potter Lego collection that 8 year old boys envy. ;-)

***Other interests/activities:
I play a lot of Sims and SimCity 4 and Morrowind. I cross-stitch. I have a
desire to take up water colour painting again. I'm an amateur photographer.
I do a lot of funky photoshopping in the pixel challenges at
TelevisionWithoutPity.

***Current/recent reading:
Thanks to BookCrossing, I'm discovering new authors. Hated Wild Animus by
Rich Shapero. Loved The Summerhouse by Jude Deveraux. And am deep into The
King of Torts by John Grisham.

***Current/recent listening:
Michael Buble. I love his versions of Spider-Man and Moondance.

***Current/recent viewing:
Right now I'm watching The Amazing Race, which is like the Rolls-Royce of
reality TV. And Big Brother, which is a cesspool of cheesy trash, and yet I
cannot look away. Looking forward to Survivor next month.

Angela

@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@--- at ---@
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you will land among the stars,"
    (attributed to Les Brown).
AIM:  angelamermaid  MSN messenger: angelamermaid
http://www.livejournal.com/users/angelamermaid/
http://www.cafeshops.com/neptunescats




From judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 04:49:50 2004
From: judy at judyserenity.yahoo.invalid (Judy)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 04:49:50 -0000
Subject: Canon supportability (was: Snape's Backsid-- er, BacksLide)
In-Reply-To: <ch025n+cjt9@...>
Message-ID: <ch101e+l9d6@...>

Nora Renka wrote, in regards to some fans' overly positive 
interpretations of Draco, Snape, etc.:
> if you have any concern about the supportability 
> of your interpretation, it's definitely *not* an anything goes   
> world.....

I think the question here is what a fan is using the books *for*.  If 
the books are intended as a starting point for one's own imagination, 
then it *is* anything goes. It's not as if JKR is entitled to control 
the contents of a person's own thoughts.  If one is trying to discuss 
the books with someone else, then "the supportability 
of your interpretation" really does matter.  Unfortunately, some fans 
seem to confuse the two, and wind up doing things such as using 
Fanfic!Draco to try to support their arguments on HPfGU. I definitely 
agree that this gets tedious pretty fast.  

I said:
> > I'm not sure that JKR's comments mean that Snape is ESE.  I do 
> > think she intended him to be an unlikable person -- bitter, 
> > vindictive, and so forth -- and that she's perplexed by his many 
> > fans. She doesn't understand that we want to *save* him!...

And Nora said: 
> I actually think that she does understand that--but she knows him, 
> what he is, how he thinks, and I don't think that Snape such as he 
> actually is, when we find out what makes his little head tick, is 
> going to be the 'saved by the love of a good woman' type....

It's possible that JKR will *never* reveal enough about Snape to let 
us know whether he could be saved.  It's even possible that she 
hasn't fleshed him out enough in her own mind to tell if he could be 
saved or not, although I tend to agree with you that JKR knows him 
quite well.  

In some cases, such as Lucius, I think it's quite possible that the 
character is not all that well fleshed out in JKR's mind.  And, it's 
quite possible that we won't get to really find out what makes Lucius 
tick. So, fans who support Redeemable!Lucius or (especially) 
Redeemable!Snape might get their hopes dashed, but it's also possible 
that JKR might never get around to dashing those hopes. And, some 
fans might not *care* if JKR dashes their hopes. I find Snape a very 
interesting character to contemplate, and if the Snape I imagine 
turns out to not quite correspond to the one that JKR wrote, it won't 
bother me all that much. 

Also, whether one believes Snape to be "savable" or not depends not 
just on the backstory JKR has written for him, and the future books 
she intends to write, but on one's theory of human nature.  A person 
who believes that most prison inmates can be rehabilitated will 
probably be more likely to see Snape as savable than someone who 
believes that most prison inmates are incorrigible.  So, regardless 
of how Snape turns out in the books, fans can still differ as to 
whether Snape *could* have been saved.  "If only Harry hadn't blamed 
Snape for Sirius' death!" some might say.  "Nah, Snape sold his soul 
to Voldemort when he joined the Death Eaters," others could retort. 


On a somewhat different topic, I said:
> > (I'd definitely want to speculate on why so many women 
> > are into Male/Male ships.) 

Nora said:
> I'll admit to hating shipping with a passion, but there's one easy 
> answer to that question that works across fandoms: the male 
> characters are more interesting, or there's more of them.  Combine 
> that with the unfortunate tendency to think of everything in terms 
> of pairings, and why not?  There's always the other easy answer: 
> because they like reading it...

It's the easy answer that intrigues me: *Why* do heterosexual women 
like reading and male/male romances?  I suspect it's the feminine 
equivalent of men who like to look at pictures of two women making 
out.  The reader/looker gets to fantasize about the opposite sex in a 
relationship, without the pesky intrusion of someone of one's own sex 
there, to serve as a reminder of competition. 

As for there being more male characters, I don't think there's the 
whole story.  Some of the male characters who get shipped are 
extremely minor. Why ship one of the main male characters with Justin 
Fitch-Fenley (sheesh, I can't even remember his name) when one could 
just as easily ship with Parvati or some other minor female character 
instead? 

I said that 
> I haven't come across many Voldemort fans  

And Nora said:
> You haven't been lookin' in the right places...

Really?  Where do they hang out? (I'm curious *purely* for research 
purposes, of course....)

-- Judy




From sarvalsha at sarvalsha.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 10:14:07 2004
From: sarvalsha at sarvalsha.yahoo.invalid (sarvalsha)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:14:07 -0000
Subject: INTRO PROFILE
Message-ID: <ch1j1f+i9me@...>

Appreciate the invitation and it's nice to see all the old names. 

THE OLD CROWD ? INTRO

***Name:
Margaret McNie

***Nicknames/IDs:
Marg (family), Maggie/sarvalsha

***Age:
57

***Family:
Most of my family lives in Southern California except for one sister 
in Kansas City; I have 7 nieces and nephews but spend the most time 
with my youngest sister's family which includes a 5 year girl who 
wants to be a baker, a 12 year old girl whose ambition when she was 4 
was to be 5 so she could play little league, and a 15 year old boy 
who is obsessed with lacrosse. I am single and share my home with 
Sarah the weird who appears to be a cross between ragdoll and calico.

***Home
An apartment in Long Beach, California

***Birthday, Place of Birth:
24th February, Detroit, Michigan; but I grew up in San Diego

***Education/Job/Role in Life etc:
I left college after two years and have worked in data processing my 
entire career, first as a keypunch operator, then computer operator, 
and for the past 20 years as a mainframe programmer . . . well until 
last year when I was laid off; since then I've been trying to 
declutter my life while figuring out what to do when I grow up

***Other things we might want to know about you:
I've spent most of my life in Southern California but lived for 3 
years in London (1969-1971). During a career crossroads, I realized I 
had let 2 things disappear from my life that I wanted back: horses 
and books. I now have 3 retired Arabian gentlemen; one lives at an 
animal sanctuary with lots of other horses, a llama who's in love 
with a mare, an emu, geese, cats, dogs, etc. and the other two live 
with their ex-trainer. 

***First contact with Harry Potter:
Spring 1999, Rosie O'Donnell raved about the books on her show, my 
nephew's birthday was coming up, I suggested them to my sister, she 
asked me to read them first because of the subject matter, I did, 
then returned to Borders to get Ryan another copy because the first 
one I'd bought was MINE!

***Favourite Potter things (books, characters, ships, fics, objets
d'Art, general enthusing):
Bookswise: I read books voraciously from an early age into my 20s but 
then stopped. I still read but not books. It wasn't a conscious 
decision but it was a conscious decision to get them back. I started 
out with a non-fiction book about horses, then followed that with The 
Horse Whisperer which was hugely popular at the time and which I 
absolutely hated. I then tried a Nicholas Sparks book which I did not 
finish. Then along came Harry . . .

Book: not even close, PoA by a landslide. Of course it helps that 
Lupin has a big role. 

Characters: Harry and Lupin. I haven't kept up with much Potter stuff 
for some time but I have read the ESE!Lupin nonsense and if it's 
true, I will shred every single book and send the pieces back to Jo 
Rowling. I will do the same thing if she makes Snape into anything 
other than the pond scum he is. I don't want him redeemed OR ESE. I 
want him to continue to be the person who proves that you don't have 
to be good to be right.

No particular ship allegiances and I don't read fanfic. I did read a 
little at one time but couldn't deal with it bleeding into my 
memories of the books. Had the same apprehensions about the movies; I 
didn't think they should make any movies until the story was 
finished. I have seen them all and thought they were generally well-
done but quite naturally only a fraction of the quality and content 
of the books.

***Extent of Potter obsession:
Mild for the moment but my obsessions go in phases. I do get the 
books the day they are released and sit up all night reading; that's 
part of the fun. I also check out the websites after a new book or 
movie and listen to the books on CD when I'm on the computer (OoP is 
playing right now) or a long drive. I have multiple copies of the 
books, the first two movies on tape, a couple of the games. I have 
learned from previous obsessions that I get excessive so tried to 
keep it in check and have been mostly successful.

***Other interests/activities:
My sister introduced me to rubber stamping a couple of years ago and 
craft supplies are now overrunning my home, though lately I've been 
incorporating more drawing and would like to expand into watercolor 
painting.

***Current/recent reading:
I just finished the first 3 books of C.J. Box's Joe Pickett mystery 
series which I liked very much; I also read westerns, romances, a 
little science fiction (Wen Spencer, Lois McMaster Bujold). Ongoing: 
Breaking Clean (Judy Blunt); The Instinct to Heal (David Servan-
Schreiber), The Purpose Driven Life (Rick Warren). Next is The Match, 
Althea Gibson and Angela Buxton (Bruce Schoenfeld)

***Current/recent listening:
"No Regrets, the Best of Scott Walker and the Walker Brothers"; "Now 
That I've Found You" by Alison Krauss; "Exit From Screechville" by 
Brother (Australian brothers with Scottish heritage who dress in 
kilts and play rock using bagpipes and a didgeridoo)

***Current/recent viewing:
For the past 2 weeks, the Olympics; HGTV, Clean Sweep (TLC), NCIS. 
The last movie I saw at the theater was PoA. On DVD, Hidalgo and 
SecondHand Lions (which we all absolutely loved).


Margaret




From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 12:46:51 2004
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:46:51 -0000
Subject: An Introduction
In-Reply-To: <410-220048130172039839@...>
Message-ID: <ch1rvr+inqa@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Wendy" <here_be_dragons at e...> 
wrote:
> Ginger:
> >The day before last I saw Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson in Des 
> >Moines!  Bob was awesome as usual, but I thought Willie Nelson 
would 
> >have been better.


Actually, that wasn't me, that was AmeliaGoldfeesh.  I have seen my 2 
childhood heartthrobs in concert (Barry Manilow and Ozzy Ozbourne) so 
my life is complete, as there is no chance for a Beatles reunion this 
side of the Veil. *sniff sniff*.

While I'm on, thanks for the nice welcomes!  

Ginger, feeling at home here




From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 13:18:27 2004
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (kneasy)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:18:27 -0000
Subject: furtively sidling through the door...
Message-ID: <ch1tr3+80q1@...>


Slightly stunned to receive an invitation to such exalted circles.
As a fully paid up member of the League of Conspiracy Theorists
I'm a bit wary too. That arch and veil... not in working order, is it?

Intro:

Kneasy -  alter ego of B.T. Arrowsmith
Male
English
Old
Scientific background, now semi-retired, occasional consultancies
Enjoys positing interpretations contrary to mainstream opinion
Voracious reader of just about anything, though for certain subjects
/authors a curled lip is deemed obligatory

I'll try to stay out of trouble - honest.





From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 15:38:29 2004
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:38:29 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backsid-- er, BacksLide
In-Reply-To: <cgum11+a7r5@...>
Message-ID: <ch261l+agda@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Judy" <judy at j...> 
wrote:
> I'm not sure that JKR's comments mean that Snape is ESE.  I 
do think  she intended him to be an unlikable person -- bitter, 
vindictive, and  so forth -- and that she's perplexed by his many 
fans. She doesn't  understand that we want to *save* him!  
Snape clearly just needs my --  er, I mean, *some* good 
woman's love.  <

A scholarly perusal of the relevant literature suggests that  this 
need will be revealed by a despicable attempt on  my -- er,  that 
is,   *some* good woman's virtue.  Of course, being a good 
woman, she will spurn it. Or at least  feel really, really bad about 
giving in <veg>.

Oh, JKR knows all. She drew little flowery doodles all around 
Snape's name. Perplexed? Only by the vagaries of human 
nature. Alas, canon Snape yearns for romance no longer. He 
wants respect, that's all.  

Pippin
who knows who's ESE. " --it wasn't Snape. It wasn't even 
Voldemort."




From entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 16:37:17 2004
From: entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid (entropymail)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:37:17 -0000
Subject: A Pitifully Short Intro...
Message-ID: <ch29ft+c2pq@...>

Aha! In the back of my mind, I guess I've always known that there was
some Order-like bunch of lunatics running around! And now I've found them!

Anyway, don't have but a moment for an intro (due to my fabulously
fabulous and busy life, you know!), so a proper intro will have to
wait.  But I just wanted to say "hi", and that I'm looking forward to
both reading and contributing some really  mind-blowing new theories
and insights from you guys!

So get to work!

:: Entropy ::




From annemehr at annemehr.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 18:27:07 2004
From: annemehr at annemehr.yahoo.invalid (annemehr)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:27:07 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backslide (was Re: Welcome!)
In-Reply-To: <cgtvkn+3e92@...>
Message-ID: <ch2ftr+3emf@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelleythompson at g...>
wrote:

> Yeah, I know what you mean; I've always believed he *is* on the side 
> of good (for very dubious reasons?), but is generally just a 
> misanthrope (who does he seem to genuinely like?  He respects DD, I 
> think respects McG, but as far as actually liking anyone...) and that 
> his natural personality works very well to serve his spy (double-
> agent?) role.  (The Draco favoritism, etc.)


Which reminds me of the little scene in OoP which really grabbed my
attention:
-------------------------------------------------
Professor McGonagall had just stumped up the stone steps into the
castle; she was carrying a tartan carpetbag in one hand and leaning
heavily on a walking stick with her other, but otherwise looked quite
well.

'Professor McGonagall!' said Snape, striding forwards. 'Out of St
Mungo's, I see!'
--------------------------------------------------


Such a sudden change of mood, after having just been sneering at
Harry. It almost looks as though Snape found himself caught with his
hand in the cookie jar and was smarming up to McGonagall in hopes that
she wouldn't be too hard on him. He had nothing to say when she
basically rewarded Harry with House points for whatever unknown thing
(from her POV) that Snape was about to punish him for.

I'll never believe Smarmy!Snape. The only alternative that leaves,
though, is that he was genuinely glad to see her back and nearly
herself again.  I'm not a Snape/McGonagall SHIPper, but I do think she
is the closest thing he has to a friend.  In OoP she says she'd been
teaching at Hogwarts for 39 years; she must have taught Snape. I bet
she was exactly the kind of teacher he liked best and respected:
tough, strict, highly intelligent, competent, and extremely fair.

I'd say, too bad he didn't see her as more of a role model, but that
wouldn't be any fun, now, would it? (As for backsliding, I don't know
-- what I'm really hoping for is some really disturbing backSTORY!)

Annemehr

'Or maybe,' said a very cold voice right behind them, 'he's waiting to
hear why you two didn't arrive on the school train'




From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 20:24:50 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:24:50 -0000
Subject: Snape's Backslide (was Re: Welcome!)
In-Reply-To: <ch2ftr+3emf@...>
Message-ID: <ch2mqi+1crr@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> 
wrote:
> I'll never believe Smarmy!Snape. The only alternative that leaves,
> though, is that he was genuinely glad to see her back and nearly
> herself again.  I'm not a Snape/McGonagall SHIPper, but I do think 
she
> is the closest thing he has to a friend.  In OoP she says she'd been
> teaching at Hogwarts for 39 years; she must have taught Snape. I bet
> she was exactly the kind of teacher he liked best and respected:
> tough, strict, highly intelligent, competent, and extremely fair.
> 
> I'd say, too bad he didn't see her as more of a role model, but that
> wouldn't be any fun, now, would it? (As for backsliding, I don't 
know

Carolyn:
Ah, no...there is much more to it than that, and no SHIPPY nonsense, 
either (at least between Minerva and Severus). Indeed, she must have 
taught Snape, in fact, known him man and boy, but I think the point 
is she was also at school with Tom Riddle. I think McGonagall 
understands why Snape became a DE better than anyone, because she 
also understands where Tom Riddle came from and why he became Lord 
Voldemort - she understands the attraction only too well. 

I also think Dumbledore only trusts her as much as he trusts Snape - 
that there are reasons why he knows he can expect loyalty from both, 
but they are rather enmeshed in back history, not in any gush of 
sentiment. 

McGonagall blatantly admires Dumbledore's power (PS/SS):
'You flatter me' said Dumbledore calmly. 'Voldemort had powers I will 
never have'.
'Only because you're too - well - noble to use them.'

I posted recently on how the admiration of the WW for magical power 
is one of the key driving forces in the WW society (see 108963 on 
main). I think Minerva was dazzled by Tom and his obvious power when 
he was at school, and she was inspired by him to study 
transfiguration (an art which he took further than anyone ever had, 
to eventually turn himself into Voldemort). I think she may have done 
some stupid things, maybe hung around with Tom's teenage friends 
before and after he disappeared, maybe teetered on the brink of 
something worse. 

I think it took Dumbledore, with his superior powers to Tom, to bring 
her back from a dangerous path, and it's her shameful secret. Like 
many other teachers at Hogwarts, he found her a place there to keep 
her safe. So, she understands the whole process Snape has been 
through. It is also possible that she was at school with Snape's 
parents, and perhaps understands the bitterness of his home life, and 
was friends with his mother. 

Kneasy insists that the pensieve memory is of Snape's wife and child, 
[result of bonking Florence behind the greenhouse], but I maintain it 
was his parents after all, that his father was an original Voldy 
supporter and DE (hence Snape's knowledge of the dark arts at age 
11), but both parents have perished in a Voldy-related action in VW1.

It's one of the bitternesses that is driving Snape for revenge, 
although not all of it. There is something else, and I don't know 
what it is, but I'll need serious persuasion it is love for a woman.

Pippin whipped back recently with the many instances of his eloquence 
(..'the beauty of the softly shimmering cauldron'..etc, and 'fools 
who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves' etc) to demonstrate 
he is bottled-up passion in the best Heathcliffe tradition. 

However, I think that passion is in fact the burning conviction of a 
strategist playing a long game, knowing the heavy risks of losing. In 
some ways like Sirius, all those long years in Azkaban. Its turned 
them both slightly mad, and made them extremely volatile. McGonagall, 
the older woman who has been there, done that, isn't a mentor in the 
usual sense at all.

Carolyn
Who didn't mean to write so much, so soon but just heard a 
magisterial interview with David Cornwall (John Le Carre) on the true 
nature of the spying game. Cornwall and CP Snow - how much closer to 
the heart of conspiracy theory can you get?




From entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 20:56:56 2004
From: entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid (entropymail)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:56:56 -0000
Subject: Thoughts on HBP
Message-ID: <ch2omo+osl1@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark"
<vderark at b...> wrote:
> So here's a more general question that I've wondered about. What's
up with the "Prince" thing? So far there has been no royalty of any
kind mentioned in the books. 



Ack! Now you've got me going with the Prince thing all over again! 
For some reason, Lupin seemed to be the one to pop into my head as the
most unlikely (and therefore, of course, the most *likely*) character
to be of royal blood.  And he's been there ever since.

As far as a royal reference goes, Lupin's given name comes from the
ancient princely twins, Remus and Romulus, who were exiled as
children, grew up poor and wearing tattered clothes, and only found
out later in life that they were descended from royal blood.

I do agree, though, that it's nearly impossible to guess who the HBP
will be until the book is actually in our hot little hands.  That
said,  my vision is one of young Lupin growing up near Prague (I'll
explain that bit later); a pampered little prince of a royal father
and a  beautiful (though preoccupied) witch.  Little Lupin, bored and
lonely, wandered too close to the woods one day, and was bitten by a
werewolf.  His horrified parents soon shipped him off to Hogwarts,
partially for his own safety and partially to get him as far away from
them as possible.  The rest, of course, is history.

(Okay, some explanations are in order regarding the Prague thing.
First, Prague was once the "place-to-be" for anyone who was anyone in
magical and, particularly, alchemical circles.  We all know how much
JKR loves those alchemical references.   It's also noted as one of the
"birthplaces" of many creatures such as vampires and, yes,
werewolves.)   Seems that JKR will eventually make this a significant
place regarding the WW (even if it only appears in backstory).

I like the idea of tattered!Lupin being of royal blood, particularly
since we have heard (bits and pieces) about James and Sirius' parents,
but absolutely nothing about Remus'.  Anyway, that's my story, and I'm
sticking to it.

:: Entropy ::




From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Tue Aug 31 22:50:55 2004
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:50:55 -0000
Subject: McGonagall/Take 2 (was Snape's Backslide)
In-Reply-To: <ch2mqi+1crr@...>
Message-ID: <ch2vcf+8408@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2" 
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
 but I think the point 
> is she was also at school with Tom Riddle. I think McGonagall 
> understands why Snape became a DE better than anyone, because she 
> also understands where Tom Riddle came from and why he became Lord 
> Voldemort - she understands the attraction only too well. 
> 

Carolyn:
Before one of the venerable ancients here points it out - ok, Minerva 
wasn't at school with Tom Riddle. She left the year before he 
started, but no problem <g>. Theory, take 2:

Her special subject of interest whilst at school became 
transfiguration, and she continued studying it after she left school, 
possibly being supervised by Dumbledore. By the time Tom was 17, he 
was steeped in the Dark Arts, found the Chamber of Secrets, and 
started to be called 'Lord Voldemort' by his 'intimate friends'. They 
formed the nucleus of his supporters, who saw in him a wizard with 
potentially stupendous powers.

Minerva, who was only 23 at this point, heard about Tom via 
Dumbledore, and knew some of the older brothers and sisters of 
the 'intimate friends' he had gathered around him. The whisper grew 
about the powers and skills Tom was developing - 'there is no good 
and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it' 
(Quirrell, CoS). Magical power fascinates the WW.

She got drawn in, either through a relationship with one of the 
wizards who was interested in what Tom could do, or her own interests 
in transfiguration. We have no information on what she did with 
herself before starting teaching at Hogwarts in her mid 30s, but I 
think she got her fingers burnt by getting too close to the Dark 
Arts, or got married to someone who became heavily involved, and 
Dumbledore got her out of it/gave her a home when her husband was 
killed.

And she could still have been at school with Snape's parents, who 
followed a similar pattern to her, and that's why she understands 
Snape so well...etc etc

Carolyn
Wriggling out of a tricky one there..