Ron in the Background ....... or not (Long)

[serenadust]

I apologise for the delay in my reply to Penny's very thorough 
post.  First there were houseguests, and then the more I thought 
about what I wanted to write, the longer it got!

I'll try to limit the scope of this post to just addressing some of 
the points raised.

Penny wrote:

> Debbie believes that Rowling is only concerned with preventing 
errors that affect future plot developments, and hasn't concerned 
herself with characterization so much. 
 
<snip agreement with Debbie that JKR recognizes that film and books 
are different media>

  >  BUT, on the COS DVD interview with Rowling and Kloves, I have 
the distinct impression of collaboration ..... or at least that 
Kloves has great access to JKR when he wants it.  This implies to me 
that if Rowling were truly as upset about Ron's characterization in 
the films, she might have stepped in.  I do believe I remember 
reading also that she has script approval.  So, I think all in all, 
I'd still be a little disturbed by this trend in the films if I were 
a Ron fan.  Which I am not.  <g> 



I can't say that I didn't find Kloves treatment of Ron's character 
annoying, but I don't really think it foreshadows anything more than 
the fact that any future movies scripted by him will probably 
continue this approach until the plot forces him to do 
otherwise...or not.  While considering this point, I thought of two 
other movies adapted from books that I've seen recently: Seabiscuit 
(non-fiction), and The Stepford Wives (fiction).  The authors of 
both of these books are still living and in the case of Seabiscuit, 
actually worked on the movie (although someone else wrote the 
screenplay) and in each case the characters in the movies behaved 
very differently from the ones in the books.  The main character in 
Seabiscuit (Red Pollard) actually does something in the film that 
(according to the author) he could never have done in real life, and 
that is in direct opposition to what she describes him doing in the 
book. In the Stepford Wives, they not only change the main 
characters, they changed the plot entirely, making a dark comedy 
from a horror story.

My point is that by now JKR is probably pretty sophisticated about 
the whole process of converting books to movies.  Considering what 
could have happened to her story (Spielberg version, complete with 
Hogwarts cheerleaders), she is probably content to have them follow 
her major plot-points, not contradicting important features of her 
world while painting all the characters with a *very* broad brush.  
While Ron's case was most egregious IMO, Harry, Hermione, and 
Draco's characters were also mis-characterized to varying degrees. 
Considering the way many book authors have been treated during the 
film adaptations of their work, I imagine that she feels that on the 
whole, she's been treated pretty well by WB. I don't think that I've 
heard about her having script approval, though.  The interviews I've 
seen just seem to show that she's given Kloves as much access as he 
needs to complete the scripts and is available to the director, if 
he wants to ask questions. Ron's treatment in the films has no 
effect on the way she develops his character in the books.

And let's face it, if there's anything she's unhappy about in the 
films, it's very unlikely that she'd ever go public with it while 
they're still being churned out.  Like me, I suspect she's just glad 
that they aren't a whole lot worse, because they certainly could be.



> HERMIONE AS HEROINE / RON ON THE SIDELINES:

<snip Debbie and I agreeing that OOP, while showing Ron dealing with 
his insecurities "offstage", isn't foreshadowing a more prominent 
role for Hermione, while Ron is shunted off to the sidelines>


Penny wrote:
<snip discussion of the relative number of action scenes involving 
Ron vs scenes with Hermione helping Harry in the POA film and in OOP>

   
> GoF wasn't too terribly obvious in that regard, and so it wasn't 
until we had OOP that I started thinking about whether this was a 
narrative arc, a trend.  We have the Harry and Hermione Show in the 
true action of PoA (beautifully done in the film, I might add!  
<eg>), whilst Ron is "unable to walk."  In GoF, we have really Harry 
on his own more than ever before ....... with Hermione having 
perhaps a slight edge in that Harry and Ron aren't speaking for a 
time, but really Ron and Hermione contribute somewhat equally 
overall to the main action of GoF (which is to say, not much).  But, 
in OOP, we're back to the POA model and then some.  

 <snip>
>From Penny's Lexicon essay:

> "Significantly, Harry and Hermione share in the key moments of the 
events depicted in OoP as a pair.  It is Harry and Hermione together 
who accompany Hagrid to the Forest to meet Grawp (604-618).  It is 
Harry and Hermione together who steal into Umbridge's office to 
check on Sirius' whereabouts (651-653).  It is Harry and Hermione 
together who accompany Umbridge into the Forest (660).  
>  
> 
> And, finally, Hermione is with Harry and Neville (both of whom may 
be integral to the final resolution of the series) when the group is 
split in two at the Department of Mysteries."



(Boy, it's hard to snip when there are so many important points to 
be addressed <g>).
I also see a definite narrative arc developing, but it's very 
different from the one Penny sees.

I should start by saying that one of the things I love most about 
these books is that each of the characters in the trio are such real 
and distinct personalities that it's hard to remember that they 
aren't real people.  While Harry's development is the main focus, 
both Ron and Hermione have their own individual character arcs, and 
their own challenges they must overcome which really have very 
little to do with Harry.  In trying to keep this post from getting 
any longer than absolutely necessary, I'll confine myself to what I 
see happening with Harry.

The beginning of the series has Harry essentially alone in the 
world, and relying only on himself.  By the end of PS/SS, he has 
learned to depend on Ron and Hermione to help him do what needs to 
be done (as well as be his friends), but in the books that follow 
he's not ever willing to reach out to anyone else until he writes to 
Sirius at the beginning of GoF (and he regrets that when it results 
in Sirius returning to Britain to be near him).

In GoF it begins to be apparent that Ron and Hermione, while still 
his closest friends, are no longer able to always provide him with 
all the help he needs.  This is most evident while he's preparing 
for the second task.  First, he receives unwanted but badly needed 
advice from Cedric and as a result, is able to decipher the clue 
from the egg.  After that, no matter how hard they try, Ron and 
Hermione fail utterly in helping Harry find a way to survive 
underwater, and end up leaving him on his own.  If only he'd thought 
to ask the boys in his dorm for help, Neville could have easily 
provided the information he needed (which is what Crouch/Moody 
expected).  Because he doesn't do that, he's left completely unable 
to accomplish the task without Crouch/Moody manipulating Dobby into 
providing Gillyweed at the very last minute.

OOP fully develops this theme right from the start. He's isolated 
from Ron and Hermione, first in Little Whinging and later when he's 
put on trial at the Ministry.  They are sympathetic, but unable to 
be of any real help to him, and without help from Mrs. Figg and 
Dumbledore, he'd have been expelled.  Later on the Hogwarts Express, 
Harry has to begin the journey without Ron for the very first time, 
because he and Hermione have prefect duties.  He has to depend on 
Ginny to find him a place with Neville and Luna on the train, which 
begins the set-up for later developments all through the book.  
Again, Ron and Hermione are still his best friends, but while 
they try their best to help him, in the end their efforts are just 
not enough.


Penny wrote:
> Again, I do think that there is authorial choice involved in all 
these decisions, and in each case, I'm not entirely clear why Ron 
wasn't included.  Yes, he's playing Quidditch when Harry and 
Hermione meet Grawp.  But, he *could* have been included in the 
other sequences, had Rowling chosen this route. 

I really don't think he could have been included in the other 
sequences though, and still have followed the necessary development 
path JKR laid out for him in OOP. We'll have to discuss that in 
another post, though <g>.

Penny continued:
 >Maybe Debbie's right, and she's setting up a more dramatic "Big 
Fall" for Hermione.  Maybe.  But, I think it is obvious that Ron has 
a lesser role in OoP than he might have done, and I have to wonder, 
in combination with what's being done to his character in the films, 
what that might mean.  And, if you start thinking that maybe PoA was 
simply the beginning of a big arc with regard to Trio dynamics ..... 
it's just interesting to consider.  


For the record, I agree with Debbie about Hermione being set up for 
a fall, but that has to do with Hermione's separate character 
development, and I'm focusing on Harry's at the moment.  I think 
that it's important to look beyond the limits of the trio at this 
point in order to see the story arc that I believe JKR is 
developing, not just from PoA, but from the very beginning. 

Penny continued:
> I also think that it's incredibly significant that it is Hermione 
and Neville who are left with Harry in the DoM.  I'm not at all 
convinced that Rowling just flipped a coin or randomly decided to 
split the 6 characters up in this fashion with no goal in mind.


Well, let's examine the DoM action overall and see what we can 
figure out <g>.  I agree that Neville *had* to be with Harry in this 
sequence, but in considering all the others, I'm not sure that 
Hermione's presence was more than the result of process of 
elimination.  It just wouldn't have been believable IMO, to have Ron 
be separated from Ginny; he'd be far to protective in that situation 
to ever leave her side.  If the party of 6 had to be split, and if 
Neville has to be with Harry for plot reasons, then the only ones 
left are Hermione and Luna.  I suppose Luna could have been the 
third member, but given Neville's unreliable magical abilities and 
Luna's oddness, Hermione does seem to be the more reasonable choice.


Penny concludes:
 > Certainly I would expect that if it had been *Ginny* who was with 
Harry and Neville, the H/G shippers would be proclaiming the 
narrative significance of this choice with great glee ..... so I 
feel justified in reaching the same conclusion.  Obviously Rowling 
was signaling Harry and Neville as doppelgangers ..... as two people 
linked by the Prophecy ..... and two characters who may both have 
equally big roles to play in the final end-game.  If Hermione is 
included with them, isn't that significant?  I think so.  


I really don't see any shipping significance in the DoM sequence at 
all, so I'm not making any points about that one way or the other.  
Here's what I find most significant about the story arc in OOP:

Harry now needs more help and support than Ron and Hermione can give 
him, and in this book, he must learn to reach out to others outside 
the trio, if he's going to survive.  When Harry is sick with worry 
that he's been posessed by Voldemort he's forgotten that Ginny 
actually was posessed until she reminds him.  She's the only one who 
can really tell him what that's like and once she does, he feels 
better.  Later on when he's in a panic about his vision of Sirius 
with Voldemort, he completely forgets that Snape is a member of the 
Order.  Ron and Hermione also forget this, and as a result are of no 
real help in averting Sirius' death.

Ron and Hermione are the only two (of the sextet at the DoM) who 
arent' entranced by the veil.  I don't understand what this means, 
but I'm sure it's significant.  In a way, Ron and Hermione are 
still "innocent" (for lack of a better term), in a way that Harry 
and the others are not. Neither of them have experienced horror and 
pain on the same level as Harry, Neville, Ginny or Luna.  As a 
result, they are also unable to see the thestrals (although Ginny is 
also unable to see them).

Ron and Hermione are the first two to be incapacitated in the battle 
with the Deatheaters and they are the only ones to be seriously 
injured.  They remain in the hospital ward for some time after 
returning to Hogwarts, effectively separating them from Harry again.

Harry cannot discuss Sirius' death with either Ron or Hermione, but 
manages to do so with Luna.  He even takes some comfort from his 
talk with her, while finding no comfort anywhere else.

Finally, on the journey home on the Hogwarts Express, who are his 
defenders when Malfoy & Co. attempt yet another sneak attack?  This 
time it's members of the DA, who've all learned the spells and hexes 
they need from Harry, himself. This time, neither Ron, Hermione, 
Neville, Luna, or Ginny are involved.  His circle of support has 
just widened even further.

So, while Penny sees Harry being separated from just Ron in the 
continuing story arc, I'm seeing him having to move outside the 
charmed circle of the trio, effectively distancing him from both Ron 
and Hermione.  They are still his best friends (and I still think 
that Ron is the "thing" he would miss most), but he now needs more 
than they alone can give him.  Luckily, the groundwork has been laid 
in OOP for Harry to have much broader support, and just in time, too.

Jo Serenadust, who can't believe how long this post still is (and 
that it's 2 am!