From estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 02:10:19 2004
From: estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid (Randy Estes)
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 19:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: POA Movie Review
In-Reply-To: <20040328145943.67515.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <20040605021019.12559.qmail@...>

I know alot of people may complain about the changes
from the book, but I thought that the movie version of
Prisoner of Azkaban was in one word.....

BRILLIANT!!!!!!

The changes in the storyline were obviously a
challenge, and I think the movie did an excellent job
of making shortcuts to keep the movie going.

The time travel scenes were a little complicated and
probably easier for people who have read the book.

I know others may not like it, but the crowd in our
theatre was clapping and at times, cheering for the
characters!

Well Done!

And Trelawney is a real hoot!!

Randy



	
		
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From editor at mandolabar.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 04:32:40 2004
From: editor at mandolabar.yahoo.invalid (Amanda Geist)
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:32:40 -0500
Subject: Typo in the Credits!
Message-ID: <002901c44ab6$47c03a60$c259aacf@...>

This is what being a LOON gets you.

In the cast list--the "cast in order of appearance" list that has everyone,
they misspelled Parvati's last name. It said "Patel," not "Patil." Unless
their name was "Patel" in the UK, I think this is a fairly egregious typo on
their part.

~Amanda
(Yes, I'm an editor, why do you ask?)
----------------------------
Those who cannot hear the music, think the dancers daft.




From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 08:22:22 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 10:22:22 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] POA Movie Review
In-Reply-To: <20040605021019.12559.qmail@...>
References: <20040328145943.67515.qmail@...> <20040605021019.12559.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <fav2c0l11ujbsds9p29k4urduubtb21fvq@...>

Randy Estes <estesrandy at ...> wrote:

>I know alot of people may complain about the changes
>from the book, but I thought that the movie version of
>Prisoner of Azkaban was in one word.....
>
>BRILLIANT!!!!!!

I whole-heartedly agree here. It is absolutely brilliant and a so much
better adaptation than the first two movies (which I still love, but
now it became obvious what a decent director is capable of).

>The changes in the storyline were obviously a
>challenge, and I think the movie did an excellent job
>of making shortcuts to keep the movie going.

I think they worked very well. Finally, we got to see a "real" movie,
not just an "illustration" of certain scenes like in the first movies.
One thing I missed though was the explanation of how they all became
Animagi. I read somewhere that this scene (including a flashback)
ended up on the cutting floor. So maybe we can hope for the DVD.

>And Trelawney is a real hoot!!

Yeah, she is great. Just as eccentric as I always pictured her. ;)

But the best thing for me was that they found the perfect actor for
Sirius. Gary Oldman just blew me away! He is absolutely brilliant, and
it doesn't matter that he doesn't really fit my mental image of
Sirius. He is attractive enough, and yes, I think he cleans up *very*
well. <g> I really can't think of many actors who would be able to
pull the part off. He didn't have a lot of time to turn the maniac
killer into the tortured, wrongly imprisoned man. I am impressed. And
I am glad I had the possibility to watch it in English.

Monika
who will see PoA again later today





From editor at mandolabar.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 14:06:43 2004
From: editor at mandolabar.yahoo.invalid (Amanda Geist)
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 09:06:43 -0500
Subject: Amandageist's review
Message-ID: <001c01c44b06$56734b60$1159aacf@...>

If anyone's interested after the plethora of reviews, my impressions after
one seeing (must take children now, will see it again).

R
A
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S

A

L
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T

I
N

S
C
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D

Bottom line? I have no problem with adaptations; it just seems to me that
the screenwriter sacrificed plot development for humor, and Cuaron
sacrificed it for atmospherics, and between the two, a lot got lost in the
translation.

Not to say it was *all* bad, but I certainly don't think it's the best one
of them all. I'm not particularly looking forward to sitting through it
again with the kids. Specifics follow:

The pace was too fast. I felt bombarded. There was no time to digest
anything, it was like eating a five-course meal in fifteen minutes.

I *love* book Lupin; I find him compassionate, sympathetic, warm, sensitive.
Which makes it so odd that I didn't warm to the movie Lupin at all; he was
not a sympathetic character for me, I didn't develop any attachment to him,
there was no emotional response. This may be because there were so many
little interactions between him and Harry in the books, that the movie could
not accommodate, and it is the "built up" relationship that I respond to.

I had had my doubts about Gary Oldman's casting. No more. He was superb.

Buckbeak is not a computer generated creature. No, they went out and found a
hippogriff. That was *amazing.*

I fail to understand why it helped this movie to have things like a
welcoming choir, at the expense (assuming time was the factor) of critical
plot material:
--nobody mentions that Snape also knew Lupin and Black at school
--nobody mentions why Lupin knows the map is a map
--the only mention of the the wolfsbane potion was in a shouted comment by
Sirius, when he was restraining Lupin; audience is left thinking Dumbledore
really *did* put the school at risk by having a werewolf on staff with no
means of controlling it.
--why did Snape appear at the Willow hard on the heels of Lupin? there was
no explanation of why he was following him
--there was no explanation of why Snape hated Black so; this is a bit
crucial to the plot, and the character development of both.
--we are left hanging with respect to Harry's attack on Snape; in the
absence of the infirmary scene, we do not hear Snape excusing it as the
confundus charm.
--why did Prongs appear when Dying!Harry saw it, but not when Later!Harry
was casting the spell?
--why did Prongs appear at *all*, if they cut everything else out about the
Map and the history of the Marauders?

The total lack of any emotion from the executioner made the execution scene
less than believable. There needed to be anger there, or disgust, or
disappointment, or something, to explain why the hell he'd chop a pumpkin in
half. It looked thrown in as a quick fix to explain what they'd seen before,
not a convincing replay of something that logically already happened.

I'm getting a little tired of Hermione getting all the good lines.
Especially when Rupert Grint is turning out to be the best actor of them
all.

My children do fake crying every single day better than Dan Radcliffe can.

After the Boggart scene, in the later conversation with Lupin, why did Harry
say he thought of Voldemort first? He manifestly didn't, or Voldemort would
have appeared. In the movie, Harry *does* face the boggart and so we know
exactly what his reaction was.

I thought it was stupid beyond words to make Lupin's boggart the actual
moon, behind clouds. Why not just tattoo "werewolf" on his forehead? I
considered that change a bit insulting to the intelligence of the audience.

I did love the deflating balloon. I do not understand why they didn't
destroy the boggart instead of just putting him back in the cupboard.

I didn't think the substitution of the corridor encounter for Snape's office
was effective. Nothing about the dialogue, but it's so out of character for
Snape NOT to dock Gryffindor points for Harry being out of bed at night,
much less to not give him a detention for insulting him (even if it was just
the map).

Lastly, I didn't even realize that *was* Flitwick.

~Amanda
-----------------------
Those who cannot hear the music, think the dancers daft.




From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 21:15:04 2004
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:15:04 -0000
Subject: Amandageist's review
In-Reply-To: <001c01c44b06$56734b60$1159aacf@...>
Message-ID: <c9td4o+4jmm@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Geist" 
<editor at t...> wrote:
> If anyone's interested after the plethora of reviews, my 
impressions after
> one seeing (must take children now, will see it again).
> 
> R
> A
> I
> N
> S
> 
> A
> 
> L
> O
> T
> 
> I
> N
> 
> S
> C
> O
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> L
> A
> N
> D
> 
> I *love* book Lupin; I find him compassionate, sympathetic, 
warm, sensitive. Which makes it so odd that I didn't warm to the 
movie Lupin at all; he was not a sympathetic character for me, I 
didn't develop any attachment to him, there was no emotional 
response. This may be because there were so many little 
interactions between him and Harry in the books, that the movie 
could not accommodate, and it is the "built up" relationship that I 
respond to.<<

That's funny because I never warmed to book Lupin as much as 
Harry did--I always felt he had his own agenda even before I 
picked up what it was. The one moment in the book where I feel 
for him is when he wants to touch Harry and doesn't.  


Amanda:
> --nobody mentions that Snape also knew Lupin and Black at 
school
> --nobody mentions why Lupin knows the map is a map

Pippin:
Leaving out the "prank"/map/animagus plotline makes sense to 
me. Put it in now and it would still   have to be reprised  in the 
film of Books Six or Seven, when that plotline is finally resolved. 
Might as well see it fresh then. 

Amanda:
> After the Boggart scene, in the later conversation with Lupin, 
why did Harry say he thought of Voldemort first? He manifestly 
didn't, or Voldemort would have appeared. In the movie, Harry 
*does* face the boggart and so we know exactly what his 
reaction was.<

"His first thought was Lord Voldemort--a Voldemort returned to 
full strength."--PoA ch 7.

Harry has apparently forgotten  this when he is talking to Lupin 
later, and says "honestly"  he didn't think about Voldemort at all. 
Since we can't eavesdrop on Harry's thoughts in the movie, we 
wouldn't have known that he  did think of Voldemort if the 
filmmakers hadn't improved his memory. I don't think Harry's 
omission is a Flint, BTW. There are hints all through PoA that 
Lupin is a legilimens--that's one of them.

Amanda:
> I thought it was stupid beyond words to make Lupin's boggart 
the actual moon, behind clouds. Why not just tattoo "werewolf" 
on his forehead? I considered that change a bit insulting to the 
intelligence of the audience.<

Erm, you mean the infinitesimal percentage of the audience that 
doesn't already know Lupin is a werewolf? The filmmakers are 
going to have a similar problem with OOP--everybody's going to 
know that Sirius has a toe tag already...might as well run with it.

Pippin
who thinks canon!Lupin's boggart is a prophecy orb anyway




From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 22:03:35 2004
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 22:03:35 -0000
Subject: Amandageist's review
In-Reply-To: <001c01c44b06$56734b60$1159aacf@...>
Message-ID: <c9tfvn+ale6@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Geist" <editor at t...> wrote:
> 
> R
> A
> I
> N
> S
> 
> A
> 
> L
> O
> T
> 
> I
> N
> 
> S
> C
> O
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> L
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> D
> 
> Not to say it was *all* bad, but I certainly don't think it's the
> best one of them all. (snip)
> The pace was too fast. I felt bombarded. There was no time to digest
> anything, it was like eating a five-course meal in fifteen minutes.

I loved it. I said to Tim: "Third time's the charm; Steve Kloves has
*finally* learned how to write a script. Tim said: "I guess directors
do make a difference."

Pace is a personal preference; I feel bombarded by what Gen-X and
younger take as normal, but this pace was okay for me. 

Imagine how much worse it would have been if he had tried to squeeze
in even more of the book in the same amount of time ... vast amounts
of the books were left out altogether or replaced by a single sentence
of dialogue, which the result that the film is NOT true to 'history'
(don't answer in your History of Magic exam that Harry got the
Firebolt at the end of third year, after Sirius had been rescued!),
but did get the feelings across. At least to those who already know
the books (I cried at Sirius & Harry bonding because I  how it ends)
and I don't care whether people too foolish to have read the books get it.

I said to Tim: "My only complaint is he gave Sirius Dumbledore's line
about The dead we loved never really leave us; Sirius would be still
too messed up from Azkaban to say that. But that's just intellectual;
emotionally it worked."

I continued: "But the Rickman fans will be furious that they didn't
get to see Rickman do Snape's mad scene in the Shrieking Shack;
they've been saying ever since he was first cast that they can't wait
to see him chewing that scenery."

I know fans complain of Kloves putting in his own jokes when he
'didn't have time' to include JKR's jokes, but I loved three of them:
Snape: "Listen to them quarreling like an old married couple."
Harry: "Professor Lupin is having a bad night."
Sirius: "I'm usually quite well-behaved, as a dog; in fact, James
suggested that I stay one all the time. I could get used to the tail,
but the fleas!" *shudder*

 > I *love* book Lupin; I find him compassionate, sympathetic, warm, 
> sensitive.

Me, too.

> Which makes it so odd that I didn't warm to the movie Lupin at all; 
> he was not a sympathetic character for me, I didn't develop any
> attachment to him, there was no emotional response. 

Movie Lupin worked okay for me, altho' not matching my mind's image.
(Except for the non-canonical blue eyes.) I almost wish I were British
so I could analyse the accent ... less high-class than Harry's or
Sirius's.
 
> I had had my doubts about Gary Oldman's casting. No more. He was 
> superb.

Yes!

> Buckbeak is not a computer generated creature. No, they went out
> and found a hippogriff. That was *amazing.*

Yes, altho' book Harry decided that he didn't like riding a
hippogriff, and would have much preferred a broomstick. Btw, I
realised while watching that it's wrong to have Ron say "What is
that?!", as we know from FB and OoP that breeding (and presumably 
showing, at something like the Westminster Hippogriff Show) fancy
hippogriffs is a not-uncommon hobby for prosperous witches and wizards
... Ron should have seen pictures of them in the DAILY PROPHET.

For that matter, Draco should have known even without Hagrid's warning
not to insult a hippogriff, unless the Malfoys have specially subdued
(Imperius?) hippogriffs to give deference to Malfoy status. I mean,
*Draco* would have met hippogriffs before. 

Btw, Felton's new hairstyle is much closer to my mind's image of
Draco, but they needed to bleach his eyebrows to go along with his
hair; the extreme color contrast was jarring.

> I thought it was stupid beyond words to make Lupin's boggart the
> actual moon, behind clouds. Why not just tattoo "werewolf" on his
> forehead? I considered that change a bit insulting to the
> intelligence of the audience. (snip) I did love the deflating 
> balloon. 

To which Pippin replied: 

<< Erm, you mean the infinitesimal percentage of the audience that
doesn't already know Lupin is a werewolf? The filmmakers are
going to have a similar problem with OOP--everybody's going to
know that Sirius has a toe tag already...might as well run with it.
Pippin ... thinks canon!Lupin's boggart is a prophecy orb anyway >>

Tim pointed at Lupin's boggart and whispered: "Too obvious". I said:
"Making his boggart the moon and turning it into a balloon, which
makes a lot more sense than a cockroach, will deflate all those people
who think it's a Clue that his boggart really was a crystal ball and
it turned into a cockroach. After all, we have interviews stating that
Kloves and Cuaron ran a list of their changes past JKR for her to veto
any that damaged Clues."

This is as good a place as any to mention that if werewolves looked as
humanoid and bipedal as that, there would be more need for essays on
how to distinguish the werewolf from the true wolf.

> I do not understand why they didn't destroy the boggart instead of 
> just putting him back in the cupboard.

If it wasn't just part of a project of minimizing Neville (I objected
to movie Lupin saying: "You have horrors in your memory that none of
your classmates can even imagine": what about NEVILLE? I must check
whether book-Lupin said that), it was to save explaining where they
got another boggart for the Patronus lessons.

> but it's so out of character for Snape NOT to dock Gryffindor points
> for Harry being out of bed at night,

There were no House points anywhere in this movie, and no Quidditch
Cup (poor Noll Wood!) and no House Cup either. 

> Lastly, I didn't even realize that *was* Flitwick.

It WAS? I thought it was some new teacher! I noticed that in
Hogsmeade, the kids rushed past a group of very short adult Christmas
carollers, suggesting that Flitwick is one of many people that height
rather than sort of unique.




From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun  5 23:58:37 2004
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (harpdreamer)
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 23:58:37 -0000
Subject: Lupin's line (Was: Amandageist's review)
In-Reply-To: <c9tfvn+ale6@...>
Message-ID: <c9tmnd+tlfs@...>

Catlady wrote: 
> 
> 
> to movie Lupin saying: "You have horrors in your memory that none of
> your classmates can even imagine": what about NEVILLE? I must check
> whether book-Lupin said that


Yes, he did.  It's page 140 of my Bloomsbury paperback edition: 

'It has nothing to do with weakness,' said Professor Lupin sharply, 
as though he had read Harry's mind.  'The Dementors affect you worse 
than the others because there are horrors in your past that the 
others don't have.'  


It's not until GoF that we learn that Neville's parents are 
incapacitated--maybe he didn't witness the attack on them as Harry 
did?  (The unconscious remembers a *lot*, even if we don't think it 
does.)

We haven't seen it yet--going to wait 'til the crowds thin a bit.  
But from all I've heard and seen, I'm *really* encouraged!

Parker 




From pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 00:58:37 2004
From: pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid (pennylin)
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 19:58:37 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] POA Movie Review
References: <20040328145943.67515.qmail@...> <20040605021019.12559.qmail@...> <fav2c0l11ujbsds9p29k4urduubtb21fvq@...>
Message-ID: <075301c44b61$672a68c0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>

Hi --

I whole-heartedly agree with the BRILLIANT comments from Randy and Monika!  Hurray!  Newsweek was right: "the Harry Potter books finally have the wondrous movie they deserve!"  I have lots to say so it's taken awhile to find the time to compose this.  I'll no doubt think of lots of other things I meant to say later .......

OVERALL ADAPTATION ----- Loved it!  I thought the changes were really very effective, though I wish the Shrieking Shack scene could have been longer.  I think Amanda made some fair points about things that were not perhaps adequately explained for the average Joe Q Movie-goer.  But, overall, I really liked the pacing and the cinematography and just everything about this film.  I think it *easily* surpassed the other 2 movies!  I could see this one a dozen times in the theater ..... and probably will.

Curious that you think Kloves sacrified plot development for humor, Amanda.  I thought most all the humor and jokes were more or less as in the book, though Catlady and I appreciated the same added humorous lines.  My overall impression was not, however, that this was primarily comic ....... though it was very funny in places, yes.  The one added overall scene (that comes to mind anyway) was the boys in the dorm room, and I have to say that I just adored that scene.  It really felt good to see Harry just having fun and being one of the guys.  Rowling sometimes leaves the impression that all Harry does is eat, play Quidditch, study occasionally, serve detention, get into trouble and have adventures or worry ...... it's good to see him being a normal 13 yr old boy.

I think having Cuaron at the helm has made *all* the difference in the world!  I love the atmospherics of how he shot this film; I agree with the reviewers who indicated it gives the whole film a more sinister, less Disney-like feel.  The weather, the focus on the outdoors..... it was just great in my book.  I thought this was a very emotional film, which, of course, is in keeping with canon.  

I loved the new hair-cuts and the relaxed clothing style.  Even the scenes with the academic formal attire shows the kids with a more relaxed approach (robes open, ties askew, shirt-sleeves rolled up).  They all look much more grown-up too!  The first shots of the kids in the contemporary clothing threw me last year ..... but it must have grown on me, because I thought it worked well.  

THE TRIO ------

Dan Radcliffe ----- Amazing!  I think his performance just gets better and better.  Yes, even the crying scene, Amanda.  :--)  But then, maybe I just liked the interaction between Harry and Hermione in that one.  <g>  I think Dan is the perfect Harry, and I hope it all works out so that he can continue in this role through to the end.  

Rupert Grint ---- he's been shortchanged.  He's got more range than the comic relief bits that they keep giving him.  I'm by no means a Ron fan (understatement), but even I think he's getting short-changed in terms of characterization.  It's amazing to contrast the differences between filmic!Ron and canon!Ron.  You get glimpses of canon!Ron now and again, which is why I think Grint has the range to do Ron correctly (the bit where he says he'll apologize to Crookshanks ..... *that* is what I think of when I think canon!Ron).  BUT, see my Lexicon essay on the evolving partnership of H/H as a formidable duo, whilst Ron gets pushed further and further into the background, a trend I see as beginning right here in PoA.  But, honestly, the Harry and Hermione Show we see in this movie is more in keeping with OoP canon than PoA canon .......*not* that I minded watching it here already.  <vbg>

Emma Watson --- definitely improved tons since the first movie (though I thought she did a fine job there too).  Loved her!  I love PoAFilm/Kick-Ass!Hermione.  She's just fabulous in my book.  But then, you all knew that already.  

OTHERS --

Thewlis & Oldman ---- Oldman in particular was amazing!  I was leery of the casting of both these characters, because neither *looks* the part (which is a sentiment many of us seem to share!).  But, goodness ..... Oldman was just terrific.  I was so moved by that scene where he's bonding with Harry.  I had hoped that Dumbledore would do the "do you think the dead we loved ever truly leave us" bit, but I think Sirius pulled it off very well.  Thewlis ..... while he doesn't look the part at all, I thought his character and emotional persona all worked very well to create canon!Lupin quite nicely.  I connected with him, even though he didn't fit the visual.  

Gambon ----- he was just fine ....... I quite like the slightly-daffy take on Dumbledore actually.  

Emma Thompson -------- terrific, though I had hoped we'd have more of her.  One of the scenes I missed the most was the Christmas dinner feast ("Tripe, Sybill?" is Bryce's favorite line of the whole series in fact).

Rickman and McGonagall are unfortunately under-utilized, but great in the parts they have.

Draco ---- he's rather a pitiable little bully in this film, which I wonder .... designed to downplay the fact that so many fans fancy young Felton and mix him up with Draco (as JKR intimated recently)?  

Switching gears from my own review ----- Some of you may have read/heard this interview quote from Rowling re: the PoA Movie:

""I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I 
thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that 
those were put in deliberately as clues," Rowling says in an 
interview released by Warner Bros., which is distributing the movie."

So, I have my thoughts about what one of the "couple of things" might be at least:    

The executioner's axe silhouetted against the skyline.  I've been somewhat converted to no doubt what is a very minority theory that Harry will not only die in Book 7 but will be beheaded.  Mind you, I'll be thrilled if that *doesn't* happen ..... it doesn't make me at all happy to think about him dying, let alone in such a gruesome manner.  But Athena (and fellow H/H shipper) has worked out a tremendously credible theory in this regard, and when I saw that part in the movie yesterday, I thought: "Oh no.  This is it.  This would definitely be the kind of thing that would give JKR goosebumps and be truly foreshadowing if it came to pass."  I hope I'm wrong, but that's what I think.  I've been working on a project for the Lexicon which has caused me to read all of JKR's interviews and chats in rather rapid succession, and while she always acts like she's "just joking," when taken together, pretty much 80% of her interviews have some mention of Harry maybe dying.  When you put that together with the myriad of beheading references in *every single* one of the novels, it starts to look awfully grim.  If you take into account also the fact that Rowling has said that "A Tale of Two Cities" is one of the two novels that always make her cry .... well, heh.  Yeah, grim indeed.  Does Harry have a Sydney Carton to take his place?  

Less "goose-bump inducing" things might be:

-- Shipping-related: the Harry and Hermione team was in full swing for the latter 2/3 of the movie after all.  <g>  The R/H hand-grab from the previews was, IMHO, much ado about nothing (she grabbed his hand because she was afraid for Harry's safety and then quickly released it, and he looks uncomfortable and she looks disgusted ..... gee, what beautiful "romantic tension").  But, it gave the media something to talk about.  'Course if they'd really been watching and thinking, they'd see what many movie-goers no doubt did: Harry and Hermione's deepening emotional attachment to one another: holding hands, clutching each other, jumping in front of the other protectively, locked together by a time-turner (loved the bit where she slaps his hand), having a nice conversation by the lake, riding a hippogriff.  Ah, yes.  The imagery *was* nice.  :--D  [And, oh yeah, it would seem from the shots of the premier and cast party that Dan and Emma are quite taken with one another.]

Anyway, there probably are other foreshadowy-type possible things in this movie, and I probably haven't seen it enough times yet to come up with anything else though.  Anyone else have any thoughts?

Penny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From neilward at flyingfordanglia.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 08:47:46 2004
From: neilward at flyingfordanglia.yahoo.invalid (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 08:47:46 -0000
Subject: PoA film: my rambling comments (long)
Message-ID: <c9ulni+hirb@...>

S
P
O
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R
S
P
A
C
E
S
P
O
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P
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E
I saw the film for the first time last night and give it a thumbs up. 
It's a vast improvement on the first two and quite a clever 
adaptation.

My completely random, mostly positive, thoughts: -

With the first two films, I made the mistake of expecting too much. I 
was irritated by the changes that had been made. This time round, I 
set my sights lower, as Ali had advised, and I was pleasantly 
surprised. I also let the film work by itself, without worrying about 
variance from the book (although it would be essential to have read 
the book, I think).  

I agree with Amanda to some extent about the pace - at times it 
seemed like an onslaught of highlights rather than a well-paced 
story. There were additional flourishes that must have displaced 
entire canon scenes to the cutting room floor; but rather than leave 
those additions out, I would have added about 30 mins to the film and 
allowed more time for some scenes from the book. Penny mentioned the 
Christmas dinner and the interaction between Sybill and Minerva, 
which I was also very sad to see excluded. That scene would have been 
a relatively easy way to give more screen time to the teachers, some 
of whom did little more than nod at Dumbledore. Not enough Snape or 
Minerva! Boo!

Generally, the look of the thing was an improvement. Hogwarts seemed 
more mysterious, windswept and 'alive' than the previous incarnation, 
but not so changed that it looked totally different. Good use of 
angled shots and nice touches, like the pupil sitting on the wall 
playing the recorder (or some instrument or other) in one random 
scene.  The use of the pendulum and clock movements to tie in with 
the time-turner plot was obvious, but extremely effective. The change 
of clothing style for the children worked well too  - I adored Ron's 
pigtails hat!

The music was more interesting and off-the-wall - the jazz and 
mediaeval elements spiced things up and toned down the typical 
Williams orchestral stuff, which always makes me think "you are 
watching one of those expensive family blockbuster movies that has 
scored by the famous composer John Williams". I thought the frog 
chorus was genius, but it would have been nice to have seen a few 
more canon elements in the opening scenes at Hogwarts.

The trio: The acting is getting better. Ron was underused and 
Hermione was overused, but it was fine overall. The fact that Dan was 
crying under the invisibility cloak was quite funny. If he could do 
half his scenes under that cloak, perhaps we wouldn't notice how 
wooden and expressionless he is.  

Lupin: I like David Thewlis as an actor and thought he was great in 
this, if not my mind's image of the character. To address Rita's 
point about the accent, he has a northern accent (Manchester, I 
think), but assumed a more middle-class one in this film. I thought 
the playing of old jazz records on the gramophone player conjured up 
Lupin's shabby warmth perfectly. I loved the Boggart scene with all 
the kids and the final 'Mary Poppins' one where he's packing up to 
leave Hogwarts. I didn't like the werewolf though.  

Sirius: I thought Gary was good, but with too little time to develop 
the character fully (same in the book though). Some of us commented 
on his height: Gary Oldman isn't very tall and this was quite 
noticeable against David Thewlis. For me, Sirius would be taller than 
that. I hated the "find them in your heart" crap with Harry - that's 
more Dumbledore's bag, so it didn't work for me.  Padfoot was 
convincing.

Dumbledore: I liked Michael Gambon, but thought his hair needed to be 
whiter. I was pondering on whether he'd left the elastic band on his 
beard in make-up and Cuaron had walked in and said, "Michael - 
sweetie! - that looks so pretty. Leave it on!"  Actually, on second 
thoughts, Cuaron is Mexican, so he wouldn't have called 
him "sweetie".  

Trelawney: Brilliant. Emma Thompson practically stole the show with 
that performance - excellent comic timing. I don't like her much as 
an actress, but she is a very good actress nevertheless.  I also see 
Trelawney as much older for some reason, but I was totally sold on 
Emma's version.  

Buckbeak: As Amanda said, it was a real one, wasn't it? He seemed 
more 'horsey' than I'd imagined though. As I said to someone at the 
dinner after our showing, he might have been called Horsebutt. Not 
sure about Harry doing the "whoo-hoo!" stuff when flying over the 
lake, but this was redeemed by Buckbeak dragging his claws in the 
water: a tiny detail, but one that reinforced the reality of the 
creature. Yes, it was a real one... 

Aunt Marge scene: Another one of my favourite bits. Pam Ferris made 
the most of this cameo role and she really did look like Vernon's 
sister, I thought. I had so wanted her to play Molly, but now I'm 
happy she did this, albeit a brief appearance.   

The Whomping Willow interludes: Those external shots were quite cute, 
but it was the sort of humour you would see in "Shrek" or something 
like that - wasn't too keen.

The Shrieking Shack scene: Erk. This was a bit messy and messed-
around and thus lacked the impact it needed to have. I think they 
should have established clearly that this was where Lupin hid out 
when he had transformed. It was just like they were standing in a 
shed, rehearsing the scene for later.  

The map: I liked the map, but thought it was weird that everyone's 
names were written on fairly large scrolls of parchment. If there 
were 100 people in one room, they'd all be on top of each other like 
windows on a computer. Hey, there's a thought: perhaps there's a 
technique to minimise the scrolls to a more compact version?

The Fat Lady: Several of us didn't think much of Dawn French in this 
role. She was just Dawn French in a costume. Elizabeth Spriggs is a 
much better actress and they should have stuck with her, imo. Also, 
what was with Dawn's husband - Lenny Henry - playing the shrunken 
head on the Knight Bus?  Did they come as a package? Dawn: "Okay, 
I'll say the Fat Lady lines if you let Lenny be a shrunken head or 
something."

Talking of which, I really enjoyed the Knight Bus scene. Stan 
Shunpike was another excellent cameo. I hadn't heard of Lee Ingleby 
before, but he looked familiar (having checked IMDB, I think I saw 
him as Smike in Nicholas Nickleby on TV). 

Tim Spall was okay, but too big for Pettigrew.

I think Robbie Coltrane is getting bored with playing Hagrid.  I 
think anyone would get bored with playing Hagrid, or reading about 
Hagrid, or writing about Hagrid.  You catch my drift.

Did anyone notice that Goyle vanished part way through the film? In 
several scenes, Draco was flanked by Crabbe and 'a boy from the 
Slytherin Quidditch team'.  At our dinner, someone suggested that the 
actor was doing his GCSEs (year 5 exams). Possibly, but it's not as 
if he was carrying the film, is it?  "Mr Goyle - it's time for your 
close-up!"  "With you in a moment love.  Just having my nails done!"

I'm with Penny on that boys' dormitory scene. That was wonderful and 
engaging and did so much to represent the house bonding. I also liked 
the drama of the Quidditch scene and Harry's flight into the camera 
on his spanking new broom at the very end of the film. That freeze-
frame on his face was the perfect way to say "to be continued".

Okay, that's it for now!

Neil




From catherine at catorman.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 11:23:49 2004
From: catherine at catorman.yahoo.invalid (Catherine Coleman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:23:49 +0100
Subject: My review (also too long)
Message-ID: <mMQcJdKF7vwAJw29@...>

At the risk of being repetitive, here's my own handful of knuts....

R
A
I
N
S

A

L
O
T

I
N

S
C
O
T
L
A
N
D

...Particularly compared to Texas.  It rains a lot almost *everywhere* 
compared to Texas.

Overall, a big improvement on the first two films, both of which made me 
cringe throughout.  This one only made me cringe in about 3 places  :-). 
I really enjoyed sitting through it.  I didn't get bored, which was a 
first for me - didn't look at my watch once.

I loved the depiction of the Potterverse in this film, although the 
overall tone and use of humour didn't sit well together in places.  The 
general feel of the movie, cinematography-wise was much darker.  I loved 
the muted, grainier colours, I loved the new look, rugged Hogwarts - it 
wasn't as picture postcard;  I loved the details.  The clock imagery was 
not lost on me and I also found it effective (if a little overpowering 
towards the end of the film).   I felt that some of the comedy detracted 
from the darker tone.  Some of it was very appropriate, when it involved 
character interaction and throwaway lines (Steve Kloves has got a bit 
better at that, I think), but the seasonal diversions such as with the 
whomping willow marred the way in which the atmosphere of the landscape 
was developed.  I found this diverting the first time - after that it 
became annoying.  I agree with Penny - the costumes and haircuts were a 
huge improvement and  Daniel seems to have grown into his hair at long 
last.

Pace - too fast, and I could have done with another half an hour.  It 
seems very strange that PoA is the longest of the adapted books so far 
and is the much shorter movie.  As Pip said after the film last night, 
we'd just seen the "edited highlights" of the book.  My aunt told me 
this morning that she felt as though it didn't work as a film in its own 
right, but was more of a visual aid to the books (and an inaccurate one 
at that) - I do see what she means.  I can't imagine how I would 
understand what was going on if I had seen the film without reading the 
book.

I don't have a problem with the plot changes, but more with omissions. 
I'm very intrigued by Lupin's reminisces about Lily, if appalled by the 
sentimentality.  Over sentimentalising things was a problem for me - the 
worst was Harry's line about the house in the country where Sirius would 
be able to see the sky.  I didn't find the lines about Harry imagining 
talking to his parents effective either, during the patronus lessons.  I 
think the real Harry would have rather faced a thousand deaths rather 
than reveal a thought like that, at that point.  The heart thing with 
Sirius (both with Harry and Lupin) didn't work for me - in fact, Sirius 
seemed far too together than he should have done (rather a departure for 
Gary Oldman, I think!)

Omissions - I felt it a great shame that there wasn't really any 
indication about the past history between Snape, Sirius and Lupin.  For 
this reason, the Shrieking Shack scene didn't work for me at all.  I 
found that whole scene so bad, that I sat with my head in my hands, 
moaning "oh no, oh no, oh no" for most of it.  It is such an important 
scene, in every way, and it was ruined, IMO, by the fast, frenetic pace, 
by the music and the moaning of the shack which was incredibly 
intrusive.  I can see what they were trying to achieve - presumably a 
sense of confusion (and disorientation?), but I just couldn't see how 
Harry leapt from wanting to kill Sirius to defending him.  Most of the 
exposition was omitted - I presume that's why they let Harry see Peter 
Pettigrew on the map prior to this, so he would more readily believe 
Lupin and Sirius - but I really wish they had slowed the pace, put more 
of the exposition and discovery in - allowed a relationship to form 
between Harry and Sirius before the scenes outside.

I thought the patronus scenes were excellent.  I loved the dementors - 
superbly done.  I loved the sense of actually seeing the soul begin to 
depart from Sirius - and as has been pointed out, it means that Harry in 
effect saved Sirius' "soul" rather than his "life", which may be of some 
import at a later date.  I also got a strong sense of Harry actually 
thinking about a  happy future with Sirius when he conjured the 
patronus, and the fact that he was fighting for that, rather than 
thinking about happy past memories.  I don't know why that has never 
occurred to me before, but it makes a lot of sense.  I would have liked 
to see more Prongs and Harry interaction, but you can't have anything.

The acting - I agree that Ron was under-utilised, despite the fact that 
I am still not a big Ron fan (even after OoP).  Penny - I loved your 
shipping comments!  And I did enjoy Clueless!Ron.  I also had the same 
thought about why Hermione grabbed hold of Ron. (All is definitely not 
lost).

I thought Emma Watson was very good, but it was a bit girl power for me. 
The howling, the throwing stones, the grabbing of Harry irritated me. 
I wish we'd seen her break down a bit, and be under pressure, because I 
think Emma would have handled it well.

Daniel Radcliffe - big improvement, although I still wasn't convinced by 
his crying.  It's just a shame they seem to be developing Sappy!Harry in 
the way they are (see above on sentimentality).

Tom Felton - when he's through with HP adaptations he should definitely 
stick to fishing.

The twins were better  (loved the hair) - loved the scene when they got 
invisibility-cloak-covered Harry by the armpits.  Those were the kind of 
comic touches I really enjoyed, along with the dormitory scene etc. 
Very funny, very effective.  I like the use of the invisibility cloak 
generally in this film.

Very disappointed with Lupin.  He didn't come across as the kind, 
troubled person I have always felt he is.  Sentimental, yes - kind, no. 
When he told Harry off and confiscated the map, I wanted more of a 
contrast between him and Snape - I wanted reproachful, sorrowful 
expression, not anger.  I didn't feel as though he had the weight of the 
world on his shoulders either, which I've always felt to be an integral 
part of his character.

Sirius - Gary Oldman was OK, but I still think Colin Firth would have 
been better(!)  I wanted to see the face-transforming smile, and I'm 
wondering whether it was omitted because it just wouldn't work with Gary 
Oldman. (Those are his real teeth, aren't they?)

Emma Thompson - fantastic.  Loved the prophecy scene - the aftermath 
made me laugh a lot.  I also wish we'd had the Christmas scene, because 
it's one of the funniest, and it would have given Maggie Smith more to 
do - she and Alan Rickman were seriously under-utilised.

Agree with Neil on Michael Gambon and Robbie Coltrane (and Hagrid).

Thought the same thing about Neil about Dawn French and Lenny Henry - 
but the other way around.  "I'll only be a shrunken head if you sack 
that Elizabeth Spriggs and let my Dawny be the Fat Lady."  Dawn French 
was, well, Dawn French.  I've just had a random thought - she'd actually 
be excellent as Umbridge.  She does sinister quite well, and seems to 
have a penchant for fluffy jumpers (does in the Vicar of Dibley anyway). 
Now I think about it, I can also see Jennifer Saunders as Rita Skeeter. 
Hmm.

Special effects.  Loved Buckbeak, loved Aunt Marge (particularly with 
Dudley watching TV throughout - did anyone else think Dudley seemed 
rather *amiable*?).  I cannot *believe* that they did the Titanic thing! 
I fully expected Harry to start yelling "I'm the King of the World!" 
instead of just whooping.  Loved the map, loved the Knight Bus.

I thought the music was excellent, for the first time, despite the way 
it was used in the Shrieking Shack.

Finally - I thought the ending was fantastic.  Original, upbeat, 
optimistic....(Oh, my poor Harry!)


Catherine






From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 13:07:34 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:07:34 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] My review (also too long)
In-Reply-To: <mMQcJdKF7vwAJw29@...>
References: <mMQcJdKF7vwAJw29@...>
Message-ID: <ur26c017lldnjccgtcns34ug4hoitpt20f@...>

Just adding a few comments after my second viewing...

Catherine Coleman <catherine at ...> wrote:

>At the risk of being repetitive, here's my own handful of knuts....
>
>R
>A
>I
>N
>S
>
>A
>
>L
>O
>T
>
>I
>N
>
>S
>C
>O
>T
>L
>A
>N
>D

>Pace - too fast, and I could have done with another half an hour.

I could have done with another half hour, too, but for me the pace was
excellent. I realize that I find the pace too slow in the other two
movies after having watched them a couple of times. And there are
scenes I find actually boring in the first two (like the extensive
Quidditch matches and - heresy - Harry fighting the Basilisk at the
end of CoS).

> My aunt told me 
>this morning that she felt as though it didn't work as a film in its own 
>right, but was more of a visual aid to the books (and an inaccurate one 
>at that) - I do see what she means.  I can't imagine how I would 
>understand what was going on if I had seen the film without reading the 
>book.

Interesting, because I had the impression that we saw a "real" movie
for the first time. The other two just jump from scene to scene and
don't stand very well on their own IMHO.

>I thought the patronus scenes were excellent.  I loved the dementors - 
>superbly done. 

Yes, the Dementors were absolutely great. I didn't mind that they were
flying rather than gliding. The Quidditch scene worked much better
because they were actually chasing Harry around. And they were creepy.

>I loved the sense of actually seeing the soul begin to 
>depart from Sirius - and as has been pointed out, it means that Harry in 
>effect saved Sirius' "soul" rather than his "life", which may be of some 
>import at a later date. 

You think so? How could this be foreshadowing since Sirius is dead?
BTW I also loved how that scene was done.

>I also got a strong sense of Harry actually 
>thinking about a  happy future with Sirius when he conjured the 
>patronus, and the fact that he was fighting for that, rather than 
>thinking about happy past memories.  I don't know why that has never 
>occurred to me before, but it makes a lot of sense. 

Well, in the book his only thought at this point is that he is going
to live with Sirius, so the thought of saving his life or rather his
soul should help him conjuring a really strong patronus. It definitely
makes a lot of sense.

>Tom Felton - when he's through with HP adaptations he should definitely 
>stick to fishing.

LOL. Yes, I agree. But I liked his haircut better this time.

>Very disappointed with Lupin.  He didn't come across as the kind, 
>troubled person I have always felt he is. 

Interesting. Though I think he didn't look the part, his acting
actually worked for me. Of course he is kind, but he is also very
tough IMHO. Don't forget he was ready to kill Wormtail, too (also in
the book - while he still seemed to be more rational than Sirius,
there was no mistaking that he would have killed him in cold blood
without even blinking).

>Sirius - Gary Oldman was OK, but I still think Colin Firth would have 
>been better(!)

I beg to differ here. ;-) Please, not Colin Firth. I just can't see
him as Sirius, though I think he is an excellent actor. But for
Sirius, no way. I am perfectly happy with the casting.

> I wanted to see the face-transforming smile, and I'm 
>wondering whether it was omitted because it just wouldn't work with Gary 
>Oldman. (Those are his real teeth, aren't they?)

Ugh, no. At least I have never seen them in that state before.
Personally I think that Gary Oldman has an irresistible smile, and I
was wondering why we didn't get to see it, but then I thought that it
wouldn't have been very esthetic given the state of his teeth in this
movie. BTW Sirius' teeth aren't described as being very esthetic and
clean in the book, IMHO it was a nice touch that they took account of
this detail.

>I thought the music was excellent, for the first time, despite the way 
>it was used in the Shrieking Shack.

Yes, I also loved the music this time. In the first two movies, it
didn't do much for me, I was thinking that John Williams was getting
old. It was too formulaic and not very original. And I didn't mind the
frog chorus in the least.

Monika




From estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 14:18:23 2004
From: estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid (Randy Estes)
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Amandageist's review
In-Reply-To: <c9tfvn+ale6@...>
Message-ID: <20040606141823.10926.qmail@...>

Good to see lots of lively banter again in this old
group of misfits!!

"We are the very model of Adult Harry Potter Fans!!!"

I hope we can keep up the chatter for awhile.  God
knows we can't just twiddle our thumbs waiting on book
6 to arrive.  Not to mention Movie # 4 or #5 when
Hermione starts to look and act like a Britney Spears
singer/idol and Harry and Ron start doing GQ covers! 
JKR better hurry up before these guys are
twentysomethings!  I can already imagine the Teen
Magazines going gaga over the actors now!


>>> Lastly, I didn't even realize that *was* Flitwick.

It WAS? I thought it was some new teacher! I noticed
that in
Hogsmeade, the kids rushed past a group of very short
adult Christmas
carollers, suggesting that Flitwick is one of many
people that height
rather than sort of unique.<<<


My wife had to tell me what scene Flitwick was in
after I read all these comments!  I said the actor
must be busy or dead.  She claims that was probably
him.  She goes to watch it on the big screen today The
IMAX theatre has POA today!  We should be able to tell
you how many hairs are in Flitwick's eyebrows.

I fear that some of us are showing our tendency to
enjoy books over movies.  The younger generations love
the faster paced movies and TV shows.  I have to admit
that if I saw another ending like Chamber of Secrets,
I would be pointing a derenger at my head.
I liked the quick plot changes and single line
explanations.  The rest is up to my imagination.  I
have plenty of time to read the book afterwards for
explanation.  Maybe this will force the few kids who
have not read HP to get the books for an explanation
of the movie.  

I have to say that my second son, Steve, is now
finishing Chamber of Secrets and made us buy him the
rest of the books for his very own copies.  He is
finishing the first grade and reading books with small
numbers of sentences for school.  I think HP is miles
ahead of what they expect him to be doing.  This is
the true miracle of the HP series.  He would never
pick up a book that Mom or Dad asked him to read.


Randy

PS.  I like Gary Oldman too.  He fit the picture in my
mind.  Obviously the women have a more defined picture
in their minds, but mine is just from the neck up. ;0)



	
		
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From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 16:20:50 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:20:50 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Amandageist's review
In-Reply-To: <20040606141823.10926.qmail@...>
References: <c9tfvn+ale6@...> <20040606141823.10926.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <87e6c01b5nuh07quvh57sc4kib0oi9qbvs@...>

Randy Estes <estesrandy at ...> wrote:

>"We are the very model of Adult Harry Potter Fans!!!"

Yes, constantly getting older but not wiser. ;-) At least that is how
I would describe myself.

>My wife had to tell me what scene Flitwick was in
>after I read all these comments! 

He was that little fellow standing in front of the choir, wasn't he? I
have read somewhere that they had changed his looks dramatically, but
unfortunately they didn't give an explanation for it.

>PS.  I like Gary Oldman too.  He fit the picture in my
>mind.  Obviously the women have a more defined picture
>in their minds, but mine is just from the neck up. ;0)

Yes, I do have a pretty defined picture of Sirius in my mind, but the
amazing thing was that Gary Oldman was able to make me forget it each
time he appeared on screen. He has so much charisma, and I don't like
"pretty boys" anyway, so yes, he is perfect for the part. And those
moving pictures of him are a real hoot!

Monika




From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun  6 20:06:37 2004
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:06:37 -0000
Subject: young-uns reading
In-Reply-To: <20040606141823.10926.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <c9vtgd+gtfs@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, Randy Estes <estesrandy at y...> wrote:
> Good to see lots of lively banter again in this old
> group of misfits!!

Very much so! 

> 
> I have to say that my second son, Steve, is now
> finishing Chamber of Secrets and made us buy him the
> rest of the books for his very own copies.  He is
> finishing the first grade and reading books with small
> numbers of sentences for school.  I think HP is miles
> ahead of what they expect him to be doing. 

Beware what happened to my brother in third grade (1967?): he was sent
to the principal's office because, during silent reading, he was
reading TREASURE ISLAND hidden behind the assigned "See Dick and Jane
run".





From estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun  7 01:02:07 2004
From: estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid (Randy Estes)
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:02:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: young-uns reading / POA comments
In-Reply-To: <c9vtgd+gtfs@...>
Message-ID: <20040607010207.63403.qmail@...>


--- "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)"
<catlady at ...> wrote:

> > 
> Beware what happened to my brother in third grade
> (1967?): he was sent
> to the principal's office because, during silent
> reading, he was
> reading TREASURE ISLAND hidden behind the assigned
> "See Dick and Jane
> run".

I used to get bored in elementary and high school too.
 I used to mumble funny things to the kid next to me
and they always got into trouble instead of me.  I
think that pushing yourself to greater achievements is
always easier than having someone else try to push
you.  HP is a great tool for kids to learn to push
themselves to read.

It struck me at the end of this movie, that Dumbledore
knows that Harry is special and must be pushed to
greatness!  His wink and a nudge to Harry and Hermione
at the end of the movie just reinforced the idea of
teacher working his students in their training while
they are completely unaware of what he is doing to
them.  He also seemed to use birds and bats alot in
this movie.  I think he has animals watching them and
reporting back to him.  He knew when to turn the
Minister and Executioner around based on the bird's
sounds, I think.

The lighting in this movie was perfect for the mood. 
It reminded me of old horror films at the early days
of color "B movies".  I thought the werewolf needed to
grow more hair and look more like a man.  I guess the
old Lon Chaney Jr. look is etched in my mind forever. 
I think he would have scared me a little more.  But
the feel of this movie gives me hope that they will do
an even better job on Book 4.  The incentive to be
better is there given the money to be made and the
worldwide audience.  They only get to make four more
movies, so they must make the most of them!

By the way, we saw the movie again today on the IMAX
screen.  Flitwick was there and he obviously had an
old flame in town that week, so he conjured up some
more hair and invented Grecian Formula Hair dye as
well.  As for Gary Oldman's teeth (they were mentioned
somewhere in the credits)  He can use a clean up spell
next movie to better charm the ladies.

Does anyone know who will play my favorite character,
Professor Moody in Book 4?

Randy


Randy wrote:
> > I have to say that my second son, Steve, is now
> > finishing Chamber of Secrets and made us buy him
> the
> > rest of the books for his very own copies.  He is
> > finishing the first grade and reading books with
> small
> > numbers of sentences for school.  I think HP is
> miles
> > ahead of what they expect him to be doing. 
> 
> Beware what happened to my brother in third grade
> (1967?): he was sent
> to the principal's office because, during silent
> reading, he was
> reading TREASURE ISLAND hidden behind the assigned
> "See Dick and Jane
> run".
> 
> 
> 



	
		
__________________________________
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From chris at christineoswell.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun  7 01:42:35 2004
From: chris at christineoswell.yahoo.invalid (christine)
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:42:35 -0700
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: young-uns reading / POA comments
In-Reply-To: <20040607010207.63403.qmail@...>
References: <c9vtgd+gtfs@...>
 <20040607010207.63403.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040606184201.0328bb68@...>


>Does anyone know who will play my favorite character,
>Professor Moody in Book 4?


According to IMDB, Brendan Gleeson.  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0322407/

Christine





From kippesp at kippesp.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun  7 04:35:14 2004
From: kippesp at kippesp.yahoo.invalid (Paul Kippes)
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:35:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: My misc. thoughts on POA
Message-ID: <20040607043514.43659.qmail@...>

By now, I was hoping to have seen POA a second time.  Considering
Ive only seen the first two once each, POA was an improvement.

I didnt mind the Marauder Maps presentation a bit.  In fact, this
initial map scene was my favorite of the entire film.  I always
envisioned something more handwritten since it was created by
students (but nothing so crude as Dracos Harry picture).  But tiny,
vanishing footprintsthat was so creativeas was the scripted writing
in the tiny banner.  Loved the map.

I know Ginny didnt have much of a part in the book.  But I really
wished she could have had a few more parts.  I didnt care much for
the train/dementor scene at all.  Hermione knew Lupins name much too
quickly.  She took only the slightest glance above Lupin and was not
at all convincing that she read the name.  Even just a 1-second pause
to perform a visual scanning for clues.  I also thought Lupin slept
much too long.  I kept expecting his first line to be, Quiet! as
soon as the kids got noisy or the train stopped.  I thought the train
stopping would have been perfect for Ginny and Neville to show up,
but they didnt.

Loved Crookshanks.  She acted a bit drugged up at times, but she
certainly was a cutie.

Why was Sirius acting like a lunatic in the poster?  V. distracting. 
But good job Industrial Light and Magic guys!

Love the Book of Monsters.  But didnt care for the under-the-bed
humor and certainly didnt care for the idiotic revisit with Neville
during Hagrids class.  (Actually most of this Care of Creatures
scene dragged for me.)

People have been critical of Feltons performanceand rightly so. 
But I thought he did such an excellent job in the other films that I
dont blame him at all for POA.  I think he either had poor direction
or instruction.  I dont think Draco is the crying typeespecially in
front of his cronies, Harry, or Hermione.  Felton did act very
stupid, but Im thinking it was the directors fault.  If anything,
Cuarn let those crappy cuts remain.

Did Hermione #1 give Draco a straight-on, head punch?  And then
Hermione #2 do a right cross?  Id have to re-watch, but that is what
I think I saw.  Im not a film guy, but I wouldnt have thought
stand-ins to be necessary.

Also loved several of the comical additions.  My favorite (although I
cant remember word-for-word) is when Trelawney starts off, The gift
of sight and then runs into the table.  I think I was alone on that
one, but I loved it nevertheless.  Also loved, Harrys Lupin sure
isnt having a very good day (or whatever) line.

I didnt realize until this list pointed out that the Fat Lady
actress was changed.  I thought I liked her better beforejust didnt
know why.  Too bad they didnt film all 4 books at once and just be
done with the Fat Lady parts through book 4.  I missed the Sir
Cadogan character quite a bit.

Thank you, thank you for not having any stupid ghost-speaking scenes.
 Vast improvement to not have the distraction.

Im still bothered by the animagus visuals.  Is this the first time
weve seen a human transform into an animal?  Why did Pettigrew lose
his clothes?

Were the wands correctly placed/edited in the Shack scene?  Id need
to re-watch to figure it out.  But I lost track of how Harry got a
wandor am I wrong to think he lost it soon after entering.

How were Harry and Hermione able to sit at the base of the willow?

I like the music much better in this moveespecially during the first
DADA class.  Was it because the Williams score was either very
subtle or missing?  At any rate, a very welcome change to not find
Star Wars not nearly so noticeable.

Overall, I also felt the pacing was rushed.  I stopped worrying about
it after 45 minutes.  But during that time it felt to me that the
film attempted to hit each plot point and then skip on to the next. 
Can you imagine if wed only have a book derived from the films
plot?  I daresay Id probably never pick it up again for fear of
giving myself a headache and being completely confused.  And I
certainly wouldnt consider Lupin to be my favorite character.



	
		
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From kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun  7 10:42:51 2004
From: kelleythompson at kelleyscorpio.yahoo.invalid (Kelley)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:42:51 -0000
Subject: Update from Luke!
Message-ID: <ca1grb+1f8k@...>

I was recently in touch with Luke (caliburncy); he gave me an update 
on what's been happening with him and has kindly allowed me to share 
it:

Hi, Kelley!

Thanks for going the extra mile to contact me
individually about this interview opportunity.  I
haven't been checking my e-mail on a daily basis, so I
only saw this message (and the groupwide Special
Notices) now that it's too late.  Still, I appreciate
your thinking of me, though I have to admit even if I
had been on time I probably would have declined the
chance to be interviewed, since the prospect of being
quoted in a major newspaper makes me nervous. :-)

As requested, a quick update, which you are welcome to
share with MEG or any others interested if you wish:

Yes, I'm home in the Chicago area for the summer. 
College so far has been terrific; I'm grateful to have
found a school with an unusual approach that suits me
very well.  I can't recall what I've described about
St. John's (http://www.sjca.edu) already in my posts
to MEG--I know I gave many details, but I don't recall
which ones, and I don't want to repeat myself too
badly, so suffice it to say that the good things I
mentioned remain at least as good as I described them,
and any apprehensions I had about the program have
grown fainter and fainter the longer I've been there. 
That isn't to say I think the school perfect--I still
have a few criticisms here and there--but I see now
even better than I did my freshman year why it is that
the school proceeds the way it does.

I have formed many friendships, including a couple
close ones.  I was even more actively involved in
music extracurriculars this past year than I was the
previous, enough so that I expect I will have to drop
one group next year to keep things manageable. 
Although I needed (and probably still need) the break
after a fairly rigorous last semester, I'm already a
little anxious to return to school even though the
summer's just started.  I wasn't proactive enough to
secure a summer job before coming home, but I'm
looking around now that I'm here.  I'll probably
manage to find something although I don't expect it to
be anything terribly exciting.  Fortunately I have an
on-campus job already set for when I return in the
fall: as a Music Assistant, true to form.

As for any HP-related activities, I must admit I
haven't done anything since reading OotP, though I do
hope to see the third film some time over the next
week.

Talk to you later!

Take care,
-Luke





From editor at mandolabar.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 02:09:25 2004
From: editor at mandolabar.yahoo.invalid (Amanda Geist)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:09:25 -0500
Subject: Question in quidditch scene
Message-ID: <00a801c44cfd$a1d8e6c0$a259aacf@...>

S
O
M
E
T
I
M
E
S

A

W
A
N
D

I
S

J
U
S
T

A

W
A
N
D

A question: the second time I saw the movie, during the Quidditch game, as
they panned across the Gryffindor stands--for a flash, less than a second,
in a gap between people, I saw a black form far off. It was not repeated.
Did anyone else with sharper eyes catch this? Was it Sirius in dog-form,
come to watch the game?

If so, I don't see why they kept that in, since the effect of his appearance
is now triggered by the cloud-Grim, and he does not later mention having
seen Harry fly.

~Amanda
Those who cannot hear the music, think the dancers daft.




From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 16:32:20 2004
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 16:32:20 -0000
Subject: Question in quidditch scene
In-Reply-To: <00a801c44cfd$a1d8e6c0$a259aacf@...>
Message-ID: <ca4pmk+d0l3@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Geist" 
<editor at t...> wrote:
> S
> O
> M
> E
> T
> I
> M
> E
> S
> 
> A
> 
> W
> A
> N
> D
> 
> I
> S
> 
> J
> U
> S
> T
> 
> A
> 
> W
> A
> N
> D
> 
> A question: the second time I saw the movie, during the 
Quidditch game, asthey panned across the Gryffindor stands--for 
a flash, less than a second, in a gap between people, I saw a 
black form far off. It was not repeated. Did anyone else with 
sharper eyes catch this? Was it Sirius in dog-form,
> come to watch the game?
> 
> If so, I don't see why they kept that in, since the effect of his 
appearance is now triggered by the cloud-Grim, and he does not 
later mention having seen Harry fly.
> 

I didn't see it either. But Sirius's actual  presence in the stands
is an ESE!Lupin clue. According to the theory, Lupin summoned 
the Dementors when he spotted Sirius from the DADA office. 

 I also saw Lupin in Trelawney's crystal when Harry returned it. 
This would of course preserve the crystal/orb clue that 
was lost when the Boggart became unequivocally the full moon.  
I recognized Lupin in the crystal  by his mustache but some 
people seem to think it was Sirius or Voldemort. Am I mistaken? 
Did anyone else catch that?

Pippin







From cjestes at siriusgeologist.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 17:19:57 2004
From: cjestes at siriusgeologist.yahoo.invalid (siriusgeologist)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 17:19:57 -0000
Subject: Question in quidditch scene
In-Reply-To: <ca4pmk+d0l3@...>
Message-ID: <ca4sft+hcvv@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Geist" 
> <editor at t...> wrote:
> > S
> > O
> > M
> > E
> > T
> > I
> > M
> > E
> > S
> > 
> > A
> > 
> > W
> > A
> > N
> > D
> > 
> > I
> > S
> > 
> > J
> > U
> > S
> > T
> > 
> > A
> > 
> > W
> > A
> > N
> > D
> > 
> 
> I didn't see it either. But Sirius's actual  presence in the stands
> is an ESE!Lupin clue. According to the theory, Lupin summoned 
> the Dementors when he spotted Sirius from the DADA office. 

Errr...am out of it...what does ESE!Lupin stand for?


> 
>  I also saw Lupin in Trelawney's crystal when Harry returned it. 
> This would of course preserve the crystal/orb clue that 
> was lost when the Boggart became unequivocally the full moon.  
> I recognized Lupin in the crystal  by his mustache but some 
> people seem to think it was Sirius or Voldemort. Am I mistaken? 
> Did anyone else catch that?


I thought it was Sirius in the orb.  It was the Sirius from the 
posters, not the SS.

Carole




From pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 17:23:31 2004
From: pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid (JoAnna Wahlund)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Question in quidditch scene
In-Reply-To: <ca4pmk+d0l3@...>
Message-ID: <20040608172331.33726.qmail@...>



pippin_999 <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
I also saw Lupin in Trelawney's crystal when Harry returned it. 
This would of course preserve the crystal/orb clue that 
was lost when the Boggart became unequivocally the full moon.  
I recognized Lupin in the crystal  by his mustache but some 
people seem to think it was Sirius or Voldemort. Am I mistaken? 
Did anyone else catch that?


I thought it was Quirrel!Voldemort.  *shrug*



~JoAnna~
http://www.livejournal.com/users/~joannaravenclaw

"You know, back in 2000 a Republican friend of mine warned me that if I voted for Al Gore and he won, the stock market would tank, we'd lose millions of jobs, and our military would be overstretched. You know what? I did vote for Al Gore, he did win, and I'll be damned if all those things didn't come true."  - James Carville

"If God brings you to it, he will bring you through it."  - unknown
		
---------------------------------
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From pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 17:30:38 2004
From: pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid (JoAnna Wahlund)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: my PoA thoughts (spoilers, obviously)
In-Reply-To: <c333r4+fq5i@...>
Message-ID: <20040608173038.85434.qmail@...>

Things I liked:




   Buckbeak. As has been said, I am also convinced that he wasn't computer-animated or even a puppet; I think that they went out and found an actual hippogriff. :)

   "You tell the spiders, Ron." Not canon, but VERY funny. 

   Lupin in general. He didn't seem quite as warm or caring as Canon!Lupin, but he was very good nonetheless. 

   The time turner scene. Very cool, very well done. 

   Hermione slapping Harry's hand away. Again, not canon, but very in character. 

   The time-turner itself. Not what I expected, but it looked pretty neat. 

   The scene with Aunt Marge, and the fact that she calls Dudley her "neffy-poo." Loved it. 

   Dumbledore. He was much more energetic in this film. Harris did a good job, but you could tell he was ill and elderly. What's-his-face (can't remember his name, sorry) did a much better job. 

   Sirius was good, as was Padfoot (though I pictured Padfoot as much bigger and more "bear-like," as he's described in the book.) 

   "Does my hair really look like that from the back?" Cute. 

   Lupin talking about Harry's mother. I think that's foreshadowing - I would not be surprised to find out that Lupin was the bridge that led Lily to James, nor would I be surprised to find out that Lily was the one who persuaded Snape to leave the Dark Side ("she saw the good in people who couldn't see it in themselves" was an indication of this, I think.) 


Things I didn't like:




   Harry doing the "Lumos Maxima" spell at the very beginning. HARRY ISN'T ALLOWED TO DO ANY MAGIC OUTSIDE OF HOGWARTS. Not "Lumos," not "Expelliarmus," NOTHING! That's why he was afraid of arrest after he blew up Aunt Marge, because he broke the law - the Decree for the Restriction of Underage Wizardry. Performing "Lumos" is also breaking the law! So where's his warning from Mafalda Hopkirk of the Improper Use of Magic Office? In the book, he uses a flashlight. 

   WTF? NO explanation of who Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs were? That's an integral plot point! If I were JKR, I would have read the script and said, "Uh, Steve... the Mauraders seem to be missing. Unacceptable." 

   How does Lupin know so much about the map? Not explained. 

   Why does Snape go to the Shrieking Shack? Not explained. (Nor is Lupin's arrival, but that can be inferred from the fact that he had the map.) 

   The animosity of Ron and Hermione was hardly present. In the book, they're at each other's throats because of the Scabbers/Crookshanks thing. Here, they just bicker. Not good. 

   Hermione SHOULD NOT BE SO FRIGGIN' CAPABLE. In PoA, the use of the time turner makes her stressed, exhausted, irritable, near-tears, and all-around bitchy. That's why she hands it in at the end of the book - because "it was driving [her] mad. Without Muggle Studies [which was not even mentioned in the movie as one of Hermione's classes] and Divination, [she] can have a normal schedule again." 

   I would have preferred that Harry get the Firebolt for Christmas than at the end of the book. And where's Pig? And Harry's Hogsmede letter from Sirius? 

   Draco Malfoy is not that much of a pansy-ass in the books. He would NOT stand there wibbling like a little baby even if Hermione's wand was at his throat. 

   Too little Snape, too little Ron, too much "girl-power" Hermione. She just seems too much like a Mary-Sue in this movie for my taste. 

   "Does my hair really look like that from the back?" Cute, but didn't seem in character for Hermione. 

   "I'm King of the World!" Um, no. Let's take out ten minutes of Buckbeak flying and add ten minutes explaining WHO THE DAMN MARAUDERS WERE. 

   Should have been more backstory about the Prank. Now they're going to have to try and cram this information into a movie (GoF or OotP) that's already going to have to be crammed full of other information. 

I have mixed feelings about the werewolf. On one hand, he looked strange; on the other hand, there's something to be said for making him look strange and "uncool." - after all, lycanthropy in the HP universe is definitely a curse, not at all "cool" like so many other werewolf movies portray the condition.

Overall, I thought it was an excellent movie, but 20 extra minutes could have made it far better.


~JoAnna~
http://www.livejournal.com/users/~joannaravenclaw

"You know, back in 2000 a Republican friend of mine warned me that if I voted for Al Gore and he won, the stock market would tank, we'd lose millions of jobs, and our military would be overstretched. You know what? I did vote for Al Gore, he did win, and I'll be damned if all those things didn't come true."  - James Carville

"If God brings you to it, he will bring you through it."  - unknown
		
---------------------------------
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From neilward at flyingfordanglia.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 17:52:44 2004
From: neilward at flyingfordanglia.yahoo.invalid (Neil Ward)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 10:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Question in quidditch scene
Message-ID: <20040608175244.19817.h004.c000.wm@...>

On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:23:31 -0700 (PDT), JoAnna Wahlund
wrote, about the face in the crystal:

> I thought it was Quirrel!Voldemort.  *shrug*

I thought it was Voldemort too, but Sirius makes more
sense.  

Brief!Neil

----------------------------------------
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From pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 18:07:18 2004
From: pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid (pennylin)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 13:07:18 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Question in quidditch scene
References: <20040608175244.19817.h004.c000.wm@...>
Message-ID: <0a8a01c44d83$703ce4f0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>

I thought it was Voldemort at first viewing, Bryce convinced me on 2nd viewing that it was Sirius, and I've just seen it today and think Pippin may be right -- it looked more like Lupin.  Definitely hard to tell!

Briefer!Penny
(who wants still to respond to Neil and Catherine and several other points later ..... I saw it for the 3rd time today and have some more thoughts on my own goose-bump inducing foreshadowing question.   <g>)
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Neil Ward 
  To: the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 12:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [the_old_crowd] Re: Question in quidditch scene


  On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 10:23:31 -0700 (PDT), JoAnna Wahlund
  wrote, about the face in the crystal:

  > I thought it was Quirrel!Voldemort.  *shrug*

  I thought it was Voldemort too, but Sirius makes more
  sense.  

  Brief!Neil

  ----------------------------------------
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From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 19:56:33 2004
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 19:56:33 -0000
Subject: ESE!Lupin was Re: Question in quidditch scene
In-Reply-To: <ca4sft+hcvv@...>
Message-ID: <ca55lh+a4fg@...>

Carole:
> Errr...am out of it...what does ESE!Lupin stand for?<

Ever So Evil Lupin...the theory first posted in HPfGU message 
39362 that Lupin was in fact Voldemort's spy as Sirius and 
James suspected. It has evolved a lot since then. I am trying to 
get the dern thing updated and consolidated, and it's already 
over nine pages long. Ack! And I haven't even gotten to whether 
Lupin killed Sirius.

The movie has raised the intriguing possibility that Lily,  "there
for me" when no one else was, told Lupin who the secret keeper 
would be and Lupin then  gave Pettigrew to Voldemort, claiming 
Lily's life in return. Shudder!

Pippin





From saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun  8 21:56:05 2004
From: saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid (Saitaina)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:56:05 -0400
Subject: OT: New location and email
References: <20040608175244.19817.h004.c000.wm@...> <0a8a01c44d83$703ce4f0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>
Message-ID: <007901c44da3$66387300$6401a8c0@CPQ15165210131>

Hey guys, realized I forgot a group to inform.  I'm in Philly for six monthes and my email is saitaina@ comcast.net (without the space).

And now back to your regular HP. :o)

Saitaina R. Moricia
***

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jun  9 15:49:23 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:49:23 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Question in quidditch scene
In-Reply-To: <ca4sft+hcvv@...>
References: <ca4pmk+d0l3@...> <ca4sft+hcvv@...>
Message-ID: <ho9ec0luiq7n1tveat8n8uasdfo0cj44q7@...>

"siriusgeologist" <cjestes at ...> wrote:

>--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
>wrote:

>> I recognized Lupin in the crystal  by his mustache but some 
>> people seem to think it was Sirius or Voldemort. Am I mistaken? 
>> Did anyone else catch that?
>
>
>I thought it was Sirius in the orb.  It was the Sirius from the 
>posters, not the SS.

Apparently everybody has seen something different. ;) I thought it was
Pettigrew when I first saw it, the second time I thought it was
Sirius, too.

Monika




From estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 10 00:23:54 2004
From: estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid (Randy Estes)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: Question in quidditch scene
In-Reply-To: <ho9ec0luiq7n1tveat8n8uasdfo0cj44q7@...>
Message-ID: <20040610002354.68282.qmail@...>

ALAS...It must be ....."THE GRIM!!"..

Poor Poor Dear....
Harry is obviously going to the dogs...
His heart is vibrant but his future in doubt

At least his heart is not as dry as the worn out pages
of those books that Hermione cherishes so...

I was thinking Sirius versus seriously thinking...but
since the prophecy is about Peter Pettrigrew returning
to Voldemorte, maybe it is Peter in the crystal ball.

But you must have the gift of sight to see...(bump)
(crash) hmmmmhmmmm

Sorry.   Good Evening.

Randy
--- Monika Huebner <mo.hue at ...> wrote:
> "siriusgeologist" <cjestes at ...> wrote:
> 
> >--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999"
> <foxmoth at q...> 
> >wrote:
> 
> >> I recognized Lupin in the crystal  by his
> mustache but some 
> >> people seem to think it was Sirius or Voldemort.
> Am I mistaken? 
> >> Did anyone else catch that?
> >
> >
> >I thought it was Sirius in the orb.  It was the
> Sirius from the 
> >posters, not the SS.
> 
> Apparently everybody has seen something different.
> ;) I thought it was
> Pettigrew when I first saw it, the second time I
> thought it was
> Sirius, too.
> 
> Monika
> 
> 



	
		
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From pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 10 02:26:29 2004
From: pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid (pennylin)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:26:29 -0500
Subject: Some thoughts on PoA Film Reviews so far....
References: <c9ulni+hirb@...>
Message-ID: <0c8301c44e92$5740c1f0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>

Hi all --

MUSIC -- I too adored the music ------ though I must confess to rather liking John Williams and his bombastic orchestral scores!  But I loved the jazzy and contemporary pieces, as well as the medieval elements in other areas.  

EMOTION ---- This may well be a cultural thing I suppose.  I've always thought Harry could do with a little more crying, and it didn't seem quite natural to me that he really hasn't cried on-screen per se (by that I mean in the view of the reader, not in the movies so much).  It may be that this British stiff-upper lip business bothers us Americans (like Kloves, who obviously decided to remedy that with this film).  But it would seem from comments from Neil and Catherine that they think Rowling is more accurately portraying how a British boy would react in general.  

So, I liked the crying under the invisibility cloak (though mainly there because I think it was natural *and* because I liked seeing Hermione interact with him in that scene).  I also liked the Lupin conversations, as well as the conversation Harry had with Hermione about wanting to live in the country with Sirius.  I didn't find any of this to be over-sentimentalizing at all, but then again, it may be chalked up to cultural differences I suppose.  

BUCKBEAK ----- Okay.  I am without question the most gullible person on the planet.  So, are y'all serious ....... there are *really* hippogriffs?  No guffawing please.  Just set me straight one way or another.  I do know that hippogriffs aren't something Rowling made up (like blast-ended skrewts) ..... but I assumed they were mythological like phoenixes.  Ahem.  

<<<<The map: I liked the map, but thought it was weird that everyone's 
names were written on fairly large scrolls of parchment. If there 
were 100 people in one room, they'd all be on top of each other like 
windows on a computer. Hey, there's a thought: perhaps there's a 
technique to minimise the scrolls to a more compact version?>>>>

Yes, glad I wasn't the only one who was trying to puzzle out how the names could be written so large.  Great map though!
And, yes, directing made all the difference in the world in getting great performance out of the Weasley twins, who were lacklustre in the other films (though that might be script more than poor acting so much).

<<<I'm with Penny on that boys' dormitory scene. That was wonderful and 
engaging and did so much to represent the house bonding. I also liked 
the drama of the Quidditch scene and Harry's flight into the camera 
on his spanking new broom at the very end of the film. That freeze-
frame on his face was the perfect way to say "to be continued".>>>>

Yes, I adored the dorm scene even more on the 3rd viewing; it's just really great.  

I'm with Neil ---- the ending was just right.  Not at all the cheezy mess that Columbus had on both the other films.  

<<<Tom Felton - when he's through with HP adaptations he should definitely stick to fishing.>>>>

LOL, Catherine!  I couldn't agree more.  What *is* his accent anyway?  It's really grating.  

<<<<Sirius - Gary Oldman was OK, but I still think Colin Firth would have been better(!)>>>>>>>>

I cannot believe I've come to this: commenting on casting.  <vbg>  I shall never get over the fact that Sirius was not played by Daniel Day-Lewis.  Sigh.  Now Colin Firth might have made a nice Lupin though.  Oh well.  I do still think both Oldman and Thewlis far exceeded my expectations so that's wonderful.  

Okay, the Entertainment Weekly issue with HP on the cover this week has some awfully interesting things to say that bear on some things people have been discussing.  I trust Heidi won't howler me if I quote some of this here:

Cuaron and Kloves were committed to doing a lean production, so lots of things were cut before they started shooting.  "Their game plan: Pick a Big Theme (Harry's transition from child to adolescent); keep what else was appropriate; lose everything else."  

"Snip went two games of Quidditch; cut-and-paste went Harry's new Firebolt broomstick, moved from the middle to the end.  The most provocative deletion for fans: the backstory of the Marauder's Map, Harry's magical guide to Hogwarts.  The filmmakers believed the details would work better in a future film.  To bring both more structure *and* mystery to Azkaban's time-travel climax, Cuaron gave the heroes more to do -- notably Hermione, whose werewolf calls and pebble-throwing aren't in the book.  J.K. Rowling was consulted on many of the changes.  She approved of adding a bridge and clock tower to the Hogwarts campus.  But she vetoed Cuaron's idea for a graveyard, as well as some of his bits of whimsy...."

The above is all from a sidebar.  Here's a few snippets from the main article:

** Cuaron enjoyed ..... "thinking of the story as Y Tu Mama writ large, and younger.  'It's the same movie.  Two boys, one girl,' laughs Cuaron.... (Look for his homage to Y Tu Mama in the scene where Buckbeak the Hippogriff is about to get killed).  :::cough cough Love Triangle cough cough cough:::::

** Paraphrasing: the essays that Cuaron had set for Radcliffe, Watson and Grint.  Watson's was 11 pages and really made her see the similarities between herself and Hermione.  Radcliffe's was only one page but full of "provocative" ideas, such as the new angry!Harry (which is a precursor to OoP!Harry obviously).  Grint didn't do his essay, which is in keeping with Ron's underachiever character.  Cuaron said: "Rupert is not with us.  Rupert is in a happier place, called Rupertland."  LOL.

So, I think that while we all missed the Marauder's backstory, at least we have an explanation.  There's an explanation for why Hermione doesn't seem frazzled and stressed ... that doesn't tie into entirely with the Big Theme of Harry's transition.  And, I might add, it doesn't bother me because the PoAFilm!Hermione completely comports with canon Hermione .... it's just OoP!Hermione a little early.  <g>

Penny
  












  Okay, that's it for now!

  Neil


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From kippesp at kippesp.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 10 04:00:39 2004
From: kippesp at kippesp.yahoo.invalid (Paul Kippes)
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Some thoughts on PoA Film Reviews so far....
In-Reply-To: <0c8301c44e92$5740c1f0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>
Message-ID: <20040610040039.70010.qmail@...>

--- pennylin <pennylin at ...> wrote:
> BUCKBEAK ----- Okay.  I am without question the most gullible
> person on the planet.  So, are y'all serious ....... there are
> *really* hippogriffs?  No guffawing please.  Just set me straight
> one way or another.  I do know that hippogriffs aren't something
> Rowling made up (like blast-ended skrewts) ..... but I assumed they
> were mythological like phoenixes.  Ahem.  

I think a special on E! (thank you Tivo!) indicated that the actors
of POA had a much easier time than the Star Wars actors. 
Specifically, in POA, they used a real horse for the hippogriff and
then worked magic to make the hippogriff.  In Star Wars, the actors
had to make believe strange beings were around using a blue screen. 
Apparently, hours of acting surrounded by blue gave their vision a
red tint.




	
		
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From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 10 10:18:11 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:18:11 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Some thoughts on PoA Film Reviews so far....
In-Reply-To: <20040610040039.70010.qmail@...>
References: <0c8301c44e92$5740c1f0$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01> <20040610040039.70010.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <9m1gc0t4o28q006o8dr7nn89q9s6cku0m2@...>

Paul Kippes <kippesp at ...> wrote:

>I think a special on E! (thank you Tivo!) indicated that the actors
>of POA had a much easier time than the Star Wars actors. 
>Specifically, in POA, they used a real horse for the hippogriff and
>then worked magic to make the hippogriff. 

This is something that was explained in the special about Gollum on
the extended edition of "The Two Towers" as well: the actors did a
much better job when they were interacting with Andy Serkis and didn't
have to imagine a character that wasn't on the set. So they did all
the scenes with Serkis and replaced him with the cgi character later.
I was fairly sure they must have used a horse for the Buckbeak scenes
in PoA, at least for the riding scenes. Most of the rest could have
been made using a puppet IMO.

Monika




From estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jun 11 02:36:40 2004
From: estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid (Randy Estes)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Some thoughts on PoA Film Reviews so far....
In-Reply-To: <9m1gc0t4o28q006o8dr7nn89q9s6cku0m2@...>
Message-ID: <20040611023640.85966.qmail@...>

AHHH.

My Precious...yes..little hobbits have my precious...

I loved the DVD on the Two Towers.  I thought Serkis
was fantastic.

This makes me think of the mannerisms of Professor Mad
Eye Moody.  I think of him as a mutant combination of
John Wayne (from True Grit) meets Gollum.  I would
love to be on the set of the Goblet of Fire!

I practice with my own magical eye at home to keep the
three boys in line, ya know.  He quickly turns and
shouts "exspelliarmus" and a cookie goes flying out of
Matthew's hands from across the room. BWAHAHAHAHA!

Red Eye Randy  (who has been working too hard and
sleeping too little)




--- Monika Huebner <mo.hue at ...> wrote:
> Paul Kippes <kippesp at ...> wrote:
> 
> >I think a special on E! (thank you Tivo!) indicated
> that the actors
> >of POA had a much easier time than the Star Wars
> actors. 
> >Specifically, in POA, they used a real horse for
> the hippogriff and
> >then worked magic to make the hippogriff. 
> 
> This is something that was explained in the special
> about Gollum on
> the extended edition of "The Two Towers" as well:
> the actors did a
> much better job when they were interacting with Andy
> Serkis and didn't
> have to imagine a character that wasn't on the set.
> So they did all
> the scenes with Serkis and replaced him with the cgi
> character later.
> I was fairly sure they must have used a horse for
> the Buckbeak scenes
> in PoA, at least for the riding scenes. Most of the
> rest could have
> been made using a puppet IMO.
> 
> Monika
> 
> 



	
		
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Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
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From elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun 15 03:57:44 2004
From: elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid (elfundeb2)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:57:44 -0000
Subject: Yet Another Review
Message-ID: <cals3o+ku0k@...>

As always, I'm about a week behind everyone else and trying hard to 
catch up.   I *finally* saw PoA this past weekend.  I wrote up some 
quick thoughts the same night, but decided to read the reviews here 
before posting.  As a result, I know much of this is grossly 
repetitive.

I liked it, better than the first two, which is not saying much 
because I was extremely dissatisfied with their kids-action-film 
quality (especially CoS) which I thought was a waste of the fine 
adult actors they had assembled. Cuaron's film completely eliminated 
that bit of silliness, for which I was very grateful.  For example, 
I thought the Quidditch sequence was much better and more 
interrelated with the plot, and didn't seem to exist as an excuse 
for special effects, which is how I felt about PS/SS and CoS.

I thought the movie told the story quite well, keeping the essential 
elements; however, I felt the Shrieking Shack scene needed just a 
little more development before Remus and Sirius suddenly embraced.  
In retrospect, I think that what happened was that Lupin recognized 
Scabbers, but again I think I need a second viewing to confirm that.

I was not troubled by the loss of backstory though I'm surprised 
that it's never revealed who created the map. There was a golden 
opportunity to do that in the last scene when Lupin says "Mischief 
managed!" giving Harry an opening to ask how Lupin knew how to use 
the map.

I am, however, troubled by Hermione's punch. I saw no immediate 
justification for it, and even less for her subsequent statement 
that it felt good. I guess this is consistent with my abhorrence of 
bullying in any form, but it also seemed very OOC for Hermione to 
overreact like that since no attempt was made (as far as I can 
recall) to convey the stress Hermione was under in the books.

Though I did enjoy this one much more than CoS (I walked out of CoS 
very annoyed and vowed never to see it again) it was nevertheless a 
Kloves script.  As a result, some of the things that irritated me in 
CoS were still there -- the caricature of Ron as a scaredy cat 
(which IMO is inconsistent with the text except insofar as it 
relates to spiders) and giving virtually every line of his that 
shows him to be intelligent or brave to Hermione.  But Kloves seems 
determined to portray Sensitive Hero!Harry, Brilliant and Totally in 
Control!Hermione, and Silly Chicken!Ron.  I think it's to Cuaron's 
credit to have been able to set an overall tone that somewhat 
overcame Kloves script.

I'm also not fully convinced that the movie captured the Time-Turner 
sequence properly.  However, the text of PoA itself is not fully 
consistent in applying the principles of time travel, so I will 
withhold judgment until I've had another viewing. 

I loved Emma Thompson as Trelawney; I'm always so impressed with her 
acting gifts. I also found the other Emma less grating as Hermione 
as formerly. I also thought Fudge and Sirius were spot on (perhaps 
it helped here that I'm not generally a Sirius fan). Thewlis, 
however, failed to overcome my preexisting vision of how Lupin 
should look and act.  But the best character of all was Buckbeak.

I've been thinking of what the two things from Book 6 and 7 that 
were foreshadowed in the movie could be.  I agree very much that 
Lupin's description of Lily is likely one of the two.  I think that 
possibly the other bit of foreshadowing may derive from Ron's dream 
about the spiders.  Spiders are relevant to basilisk mythology (a 
dead basilisk is said to be a remedy against spiders), and I think 
Ron's fear of spiders, mostly played for laughs in Kloves' scripts, 
is symbolic of his own fear of failure (and of the twins), which as 
of the end of OOP, he has only just begun to master.

Debbie







From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 17 00:25:07 2004
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (harpdreamer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:25:07 -0000
Subject: My review...at long last
Message-ID: <caqod3+b1bi@...>

Doug and I went to see PoA today (it's our anniversary) and both of 
us really enjoyed the movie...

F
I
N
A
L
L
Y
R
A
I
N
E
D
I
N
S
U
M
M
E
R
V
I
L
L
E

Doug remarked when the movie was over 'I felt I was watching a film, 
not a movie!'  The cinematography was very well done, I thought.  It 
felt more like I was there, not just watching a movie.  (And Scotland 
is *so* gorgeous!)

I'm with everyone else on the hippogriff--where did they find one? 
The CGI was much, much improved (think they learned something from 
LotR?)

The script was much better too--maybe Kloves has finally learned to 
write ;) 

I cried in a couple of places, knowing what fate awaited Sirius 
(still haven't forgiven Jo for that one).  I didn't find the crying 
and the speeches sappy at all, although I do think that Dumbledore's 
speech about those we love are in our hearts a little out of 
character for Sirius.  I still liked it. And when Harry cries after 
finding out everything in Hogsmeade, to me he sounded like a kid 
trying *so* hard not to cry. 

I was a bit bothered by the non-explanation of the relationship 
between Snape, Sirius, Peter, & Remus, but I also felt that there was 
a very subtle hint in the scene where Snape catches Harry out of 
bed.  The way that Severus & Remus interact (almost over-civil to 
each other--complete with clenched jaws) clued me in.  I also spoke 
to a friend who hadn't read the books & she said the relationship was 
understandable.  

Unlike a lot of you, I liked the flying scene with Harry & Buckbeak--
it's not often that Harry gets to just be a kid, without a worry in 
the world & I thought that scene was rather refreshing & showed that 
for all the weight of the (Wizarding) World on his shoulders, he's 
still a boy.  

I really enjoyed the music too--less 'I'm John Williams bombast'--a 
lot more nuanced.  The jazz was a nice touch for Remus. 

I really wasn't sure what to expect from Thewlis & Oldman, never 
having seen them act.  I must say I'm impressed, even though they 
don't *quite* match my vision of Remus & Sirius.   I thought Thewlis 
showed Remus' fear of getting too close to Harry (which I think is in 
the books).  I picked up on the kindness in their talks.  He seemed 
to me to be weary, but trying hard not to show it.  

Loved Gambon!  We finally have a Dumbledore who's not going through 
the motions--and he twinkles!  Also loved Emma Thompson--she took a 
part that would have been very easy to play as a characture & did 
very well.  

Somebody *please* send Tom Felton to acting class.  Whoever said that 
he should stick to fishing is right, although I did think he was 
better in this one.  

And Daniel, Emma, and Rupert just get better and better.  Emma seemed 
a whole lot less nervous (I think she's finally discovered her inner 
Hermione).  The essays really seemed to make a difference in their 
understanding of the characters.  

I was disappointed that we never find out who sent Harry the broom & 
Pig to Ron. 

Parker  







From pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 17 01:12:34 2004
From: pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid (pennylin)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:12:34 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Yet Another Review
References: <cals3o+ku0k@...>
Message-ID: <14fe01c45408$2c8a9e10$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>

Hey all --

Before I comment some on Debbie and Parker's reviews, I have some OT news to share.  :--)  

I'm expecting baby Linsenmayer #2 on or about New Year's Eve, which is something of a minor medical miracle (according to Western medicine which wrote me off last year).  My fertility accupuncturist is quite pleased with herself otoh.  <g>  We feel very blessed, and I wanted to share with this group.  Elizabeth has already been told what the boy name will be, if it's a boy, and she is now telling anyone who will listen: "My mommy has a baby in her tummy and his name is Harry Potter."  I can't quite convince her that Potter is not our surname.  <g>

So, anyway....... I'll add some substance by commenting on Debbie and Parker reviews:

Debbie: <<<<Though I did enjoy this one much more than CoS (I walked out of CoS very annoyed and vowed never to see it again) it was nevertheless a Kloves script.  As a result, some of the things that irritated me in 
CoS were still there -- the caricature of Ron as a scaredy cat 
(which IMO is inconsistent with the text except insofar as it 
relates to spiders) and giving virtually every line of his that 
shows him to be intelligent or brave to Hermione.  But Kloves seems 
determined to portray Sensitive Hero!Harry, Brilliant and Totally in 
Control!Hermione, and Silly Chicken!Ron.  I think it's to Cuaron's 
credit to have been able to set an overall tone that somewhat 
overcame Kloves script.>>>>>>>>>>

Though I'm not a Ron fan and though I do think that this portrayal of Hermione is very consistent with canon (it's just not PoA canon), I do agree with those thoughts.  It's obvious that Kloves loves Hermione, and while that's wonderful (I do too), I can't quite figure out why everyone is letting him make such drastic changes in the portrayal of Ron.  Granted, I do see a gradual arc beginning in PoA that is reasonably pronounced by OoP wherein Ron is being relegated more and more to the sidelines or the background and Hermione is being increasingly fitted into the role of "heroine."  But, it's so early for that.  Does it give any of you Ron fans pause to think that Rowling has in some way sanctioned this diminishment of his character in the films?  It tells me that it's possible that what I saw in OoP will continue.  

RE: "Sensitive Hero!Harry ------ um, Rowling herself has said in an interview that Harry *is* a sensitive hero.  I'm not understanding why people think he's not sensitive in canon.  

Debbie again: <<<I've been thinking of what the two things from Book 6 and 7 that 
were foreshadowed in the movie could be.  I agree very much that 
Lupin's description of Lily is likely one of the two.  I think that 
possibly the other bit of foreshadowing may derive from Ron's dream 
about the spiders.  Spiders are relevant to basilisk mythology (a 
dead basilisk is said to be a remedy against spiders), and I think 
Ron's fear of spiders, mostly played for laughs in Kloves' scripts, 
is symbolic of his own fear of failure (and of the twins), which as 
of the end of OOP, he has only just begun to master.>>>>>>>>

Yes, but I think those are both clearly Kloves things, while my impression from the Rowling interview was that she believed that Cuaron as director had a good emotional connection with some things that are going to happen in the later books.  I also am not sure either of those moments is particularly "goose-bump inducing"!  So, I'm sticking to the executioner's axe as one of my votes, much as I hate it.  :--)

Parker ----- happy anniversary!

<<<<And when Harry cries after 
finding out everything in Hogsmeade, to me he sounded like a kid 
trying *so* hard not to cry.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Finally, someone else understands!  Yes, exactly.  :--)

<<<<Unlike a lot of you, I liked the flying scene with Harry & Buckbeak-- it's not often that Harry gets to just be a kid, without a worry in 
the world & I thought that scene was rather refreshing & showed that 
for all the weight of the (Wizarding) World on his shoulders, he's 
still a boy.>>>>>>>

Oh, yes ------- definitely!  That's why I loved this scene (though it teeters dangerously close to being over-the-top or cheezy, it isn't).  It's right up there with the boys in the dorm room and the final ride on the Firebolt.  I love seeing Harry happy.  

Agreed with all your other comments too, Parker!

Penny  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From jmmears at serenadust.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jun 17 04:30:39 2004
From: jmmears at serenadust.yahoo.invalid (serenadust)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:30:39 -0000
Subject: Yet Another Review
In-Reply-To: <cals3o+ku0k@...>
Message-ID: <car6pf+rvo2@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "elfundeb2" <elfundeb at c...> 
wrote:

> I thought the movie told the story quite well, keeping the 
essential 
> elements; however, I felt the Shrieking Shack scene needed just a 
> little more development before Remus and Sirius suddenly 
embraced.  
> In retrospect, I think that what happened was that Lupin 
recognized 
> Scabbers, but again I think I need a second viewing to confirm 
that.

On the whole, I agree with Debbie.  I think that this movie was a 
huge improvement over the previous efforts.  I've seen it twice so 
far, and the only thing that really bothered me, plotwise, was that 
the Shrieking Shack/Lupin/Black/Snape backstory wasn't developed 
enough for someone who hadn't read the books to understand.  
Although I suppose it's assumed that the majority of the audience 
has actually read the books, many of them haven't got them memorized 
to the extent that serious fans do.  My sister (who did say she 
loved the movie) read PoA several years ago, doesn't remember the 
details of this part of the book, and said that she found that part 
somewhat confusing.

I did love Gary Oldman as Sirius, and particularly loved David 
Thewlis as Lupin.  I'd been quite apprehensive about him in 
particular because I love book Lupin so much, and I couldn't have 
stood it if he had seemed mis-characterized in the movie.  Luckily 
for me, everything about his portrayal in the film worked for me 
including his Mr. Chips wardrobe and particularly the big band music 
during the boggart lesson.  Book Lupin and movie Lupin are now 
happily merged in my mind and I really look forward to seeing him 
again in the OOP film (crossing fingers that everyone in the cast 
stays for that one).

Other high points for me were Buckbeak (agree with everyone who's 
convinced he's real), the wonderful boy's dorm scene, and Cuaron's 
handling of the Dementors "chilling" effects with the flowers and 
water freezing as they approach.  I also thought that the music was 
greatly improved and not nearly so intrusive as in the first two.

I also enjoyed Pam Ferris as Aunt Marge, although it's hard to 
reconcile her portrayal of that horrible woman with her warm and 
lovely character in The Darling Buds of May.  I think it was Neil 
who mentioned that he had wanted to see her play Molly Weasley and I 
agree that she would have been brilliant in that part (though I'm 
very satisfied with Julie Walter's performance).


Penny wrote:

Though I'm not a Ron fan and though I do think that this portrayal 
of Hermione
is very consistent with canon (it's just not PoA canon), I do agree 
with those
thoughts. It's obvious that Kloves loves Hermione, and while that's 
wonderful
(I do too), I can't quite figure out why everyone is letting him 
make such
drastic changes in the portrayal of Ron. Granted, I do see a gradual 
arc
beginning in PoA that is reasonably pronounced by OoP wherein Ron is 
being
relegated more and more to the sidelines or the background and 
Hermione is being
increasingly fitted into the role of "heroine." But, it's so early 
for that.
Does it give any of you Ron fans pause to think that Rowling has in 
some way
sanctioned this diminishment of his character in the films? It tells 
me that
it's possible that what I saw in OoP will continue.


Well, I am very much a Ron fan (he's second only to Harry with me) 
and I confess that I am troubled that Rowling seems to be going 
along with this very OOC version of Ron in the movies.  Of course, I 
don't believe for a minute that we'd ever hear about it if she did 
have a problem with it since I really don't think she'd ever be 
publicly critical of the movie makers.  All I can surmise is that 
she knows what she plans to do with his character and that any 
necessary corrections can be made in the future films, once books 6 
and 7 are published.  I watched Charlie Rose's interview with 
Alfonso Cuaron where he said that JKR never visited the set and had 
great respect for the "creative process" meaning that she'd never 
tell them if she didn't like something; she'd only speak up if they 
were about to do something that would contradict some fundamental 
element in the books yet to be written. I've also seen her remark 
(while praising the movie) that the film was "Alfonso's baby" while 
the books are hers.  Personally, I think that Steve Kloves has done 
a mediocre job with the scripts overall, but that Cuaron's talent 
made up for it to some extent.  I'm keeping my expectations low for 
the future films as long as Kloves is the writer.

I'm afraid I do disagree about the OOP arc showing Ron being 
relegated to the "sidelines" while Hermione is becoming a heroine, 
but this post is long enough already ;-).  I'd love to explore this 
later, though if you'd like to pursue the topic.

I want to offer my most enthusiastic congratulations to you on your 
wonderful news, Penny!  After going through comparatively minor 
fertility problems myself, I can imagine how thrilled and excited 
you must be.  I'd never heard of a fertility acupuncturist before,  
but I'll be sure to recommend the procedure to any of my friends who 
may have similar issues.  I do pity you having to be pregnant 
through the heat of a Texas summer though, so try to spend as much 
time as possible in the pool :--).

Jo Serenadust, who spent as much time as possible underwater during 
her first summer pregnancy




From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jun 18 01:50:30 2004
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 01:50:30 -0000
Subject: Yet Another Review
In-Reply-To: <14fe01c45408$2c8a9e10$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>
Message-ID: <cathp6+7727@...>

Penny:
> Though I'm not a Ron fan and though I do think that this 
portrayal of Hermione is very consistent with canon (it's just not 
PoA canon), I do agree with those thoughts.  It's obvious that 
Kloves loves Hermione, and while that's wonderful (I do too), I 
can't quite figure out why everyone is letting him make such 
drastic changes in the portrayal of Ron.  Granted, I do see a 
gradual arc beginning in PoA that is reasonably pronounced by 
OoP wherein Ron is being relegated more and more to the 
sidelines or the background and Hermione is being increasingly 
fitted into the role of "heroine."  But, it's so early for that. 
Does it  give any of you Ron fans pause to think that Rowling has 
in some way sanctioned this diminishment of his character in 
the films?  It tells me that it's possible that what I saw in OoP
will 
continue.  <

It's rash to predict but I think GoF is Ron's film--a lot of the
conflict centers around him. So it would make sense to put his 
character development off a bit. I also understand Cuaron didn't 
want to play up the romantic angle in this film because it would 
undercut GoF. But there is a very  underplayed R/H moment after 
they leave the willow and Ron starts trying to get Hermione to 
fuss over him ala Draco and Pansy earlier in the film and Being 
Very Brave Because They're Going to Have to Cut My Leg Off. 


I don't see Ron being left behind in OOP at all of course. He
becomes a prefect and a Keeper, both without any help from 
Harry. Harry's destiny seems to be taking him further out of Ron 
and Hermione's world--he's coaching *them* now, in the DA, 
and much as Hermione might like to, she can't really help with 
stuff like Occlumency.

Pippin




From elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jun 18 04:07:27 2004
From: elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid (elfundeb2)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 04:07:27 -0000
Subject: Yet Another Review
In-Reply-To: <car6pf+rvo2@...>
Message-ID: <catppv+9c37@...>

Penny wrote:
> 
> Though I'm not a Ron fan and though I do think that this portrayal 
> of Hermione
> is very consistent with canon (it's just not PoA canon), I do 
agree 
> with those
> thoughts. It's obvious that Kloves loves Hermione, and while 
that's 
> wonderful
> (I do too), I can't quite figure out why everyone is letting him 
> make such
> drastic changes in the portrayal of Ron. Granted, I do see a 
gradual 
> arc
> beginning in PoA that is reasonably pronounced by OoP wherein Ron 
is 
> being
> relegated more and more to the sidelines or the background and 
> Hermione is being
> increasingly fitted into the role of "heroine." But, it's so early 
> for that.
> Does it give any of you Ron fans pause to think that Rowling has 
in 
> some way
> sanctioned this diminishment of his character in the films? It 
tells 
> me that
> it's possible that what I saw in OoP will continue.

I don't think Kloves' characterization of Ron was sanctioned or 
unsanctioned.  I've always thought that JKR's involvement in the 
films was really limited to insuring that changes made by Kloves did 
not conflict with future *plot* developments.  I don't think 
characterization is Kloves' strong point, and Ron is a more complex 
character than many give him credit for.  Kloves has converted Ron 
from a multifaceted character to a two-dimensional comic sidekick 
character that movie audiences will readily recognize.  Also, he has 
used Ron's fears as his comic trait, and follows common artistic 
practice by emphasizing it over and over.  Similarly, Hermione is 
treated as a brainy know-it-all, and Kloves emphasizes it by giving 
her as many of the information-giving lines as possible.  All of 
this allows the heroic spotlight to be better focused on Harry.

Jo wrote:

All I can surmise is that 
> she knows what she plans to do with his character and that any 
> necessary corrections can be made in the future films, once books 
6 
> and 7 are published.  

As my husband would say, Kloves' treatment of Ron thus far will 
simply make his comeback in Book 6 or 7 all the more glorious.  In 
the books there are only hints of Ron's intelligence and bravery; 
otherwise we wouldn't have so many debates about whether he's the 
third wheel in the Trio.  In the end, I don't think there will be 
inconsistency, just a difference in emphasis in the early films.

> I'm afraid I do disagree about the OOP arc showing Ron being 
> relegated to the "sidelines" while Hermione is becoming a heroine, 
> but this post is long enough already ;-).  I'd love to explore 
this 
> later, though if you'd like to pursue the topic.

I have to agree with Jo here.  What happened in OOP continued a 
theme that JKR introduced when we first met Ron aboard the Hogwarts 
Express in PS/SS and he laments that "everybody expects me to do as 
well as the others, but if I do, it's no big deal, because they did 
it first."  This sets up the running theme of Ron's lack of self-
confidence.  For Ron to be shunted off to the sidelines in favor of 
H/H as hero/heroine in the last couple of books doesn't seem 
consistent with the attention JKR has given to Ron's self-
confidence.  In OOP, Ron showed signs of confronting this problem, 
but it was important that he learn those lessons for himself, which 
means that his story had to take place offstage.  Now that he's 
developed enough confidence to play Quidditch, I can't see it ending 
there.

OTOH, I found Superheroine!Hermione a bit hard to take (I wrote a 
long post on this topic on HPFGU last fall) and am expecting that 
her wildly unrealistic success rate will not continue through the 
next book.

Debbie





From pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jun 19 15:17:52 2004
From: pennylin at plinsenmayer.yahoo.invalid (pennylin)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:17:52 -0500
Subject: Ron in the Background ....... or not
References: <catppv+9c37@...>
Message-ID: <184401c45610$9797f400$4f5ffea9@cq5hs01>

Hi --

I *knew* I would eventually get some responses from the Ron fans.  <g>

First ---- FILM CHARACTERIZATION/DIMINISHMENT OF RON ---- 

Debbie believes that Rowling is only concerned with preventing errors that affect future plot developments, and hasn't concerned herself with characterization so much.  I can go 2 ways with this.  I do agree that she views the films as an entirely different and distinct creative medium, so I can certainly see how she might not get so involved in finer details.  Certainly it sounds like Cuaron did some things artistically that she didn't know about beforehand and that gave her goose-bumps at the premier, due to what will happen later.  BUT, on the COS DVD interview with Rowling and Kloves, I have the distinct impression of collaboration ..... or at least that Kloves has great access to JKR when he wants it.  This implies to me that if Rowling were truly as upset about Ron's characterization in the films, she might have stepped in.  I do believe I remember reading also that she has script approval.  So, I think all in all, I'd still be a little disturbed by this trend in the films if I were a Ron fan.  Which I am not.  <g>  

HERMIONE AS HEROINE / RON ON THE SIDELINES:

Jo said: <<<<I'm afraid I do disagree about the OOP arc showing Ron being > relegated to the "sidelines" while Hermione is becoming a heroine, > but this post is long enough already ;-).  I'd love to explore this > later, though if you'd like to pursue the topic.>>>

And Debbie agreed: <<<<I have to agree with Jo here.  What happened in OOP continued a theme that JKR introduced when we first met Ron aboard the Hogwarts Express in PS/SS and he laments that "everybody expects me to do as well as the others, but if I do, it's no big deal, because they did it first."  This sets up the running theme of Ron's lack of self-
confidence.  For Ron to be shunted off to the sidelines in favor of 
H/H as hero/heroine in the last couple of books doesn't seem 
consistent with the attention JKR has given to Ron's self-
confidence.  In OOP, Ron showed signs of confronting this problem, 
but it was important that he learn those lessons for himself, which 
means that his story had to take place offstage.  Now that he's 
developed enough confidence to play Quidditch, I can't see it ending 
there.>>>>>>>>>>

I could have sworn that I posted my long essay now on the Lexicon here on this group at some point, and I was going to reference a message number, but alas ..... can't find it.  I won't bore you with it.  If you want to read it in full, go to the Lexicon.  

While I agree Debbie that we will see some resolution to Ron's self-confidence issues, I'm not sure that this means he will take on a greater role in the action sequences necessarily.  He might.  We have Ron doing some very active things in the first 2 books ....... but then, it all slacks off, which makes me wonder.  GoF wasn't too terribly obvious in that regard, and so it wasn't until we had OOP that I started thinking about whether this was a narrative arc, a trend.  We have the Harry and Hermione Show in the true action of PoA (beautifully done in the film, I might add!  <eg>), whilst Ron is "unable to walk."  In GoF, we have really Harry on his own more than ever before ....... with Hermione having perhaps a slight edge in that Harry and Ron aren't speaking for a time, but really Ron and Hermione contribute somewhat equally overall to the main action of GoF (which is to say, not much).  But, in OOP, we're back to the POA model and then some.  

Not only is Hermione the one who's most involved in the key action sequences (with the glaring omission of Ron), but also Harry and Hermione seem to be cutting Ron out of conversations throughout the school year.  This is from my essay:

"Significantly, Harry and Hermione share in the key moments of the events depicted in OoP as a pair.  It is Harry and Hermione together who accompany Hagrid to the Forest to meet Grawp (604-618).  It is Harry and Hermione together who steal into Umbridge's office to check on Sirius' whereabouts (651-653).  It is Harry and Hermione together who accompany Umbridge into the Forest (660).  
 

And, finally, Hermione is with Harry and Neville (both of whom may be integral to the final resolution of the series) when the group is split in two at the Department of Mysteries."

Again, I do think that there is authorial choice involved in all these decisions, and in each case, I'm not entirely clear why Ron wasn't included.  Yes, he's playing Quidditch when Harry and Hermione meet Grawp.  But, he *could* have been included in the other sequences, had Rowling chosen this route.  Maybe Debbie's right, and she's setting up a more dramatic "Big Fall" for Hermione.  Maybe.  But, I think it is obvious that Ron has a lesser role in OoP than he might have done, and I have to wonder, in combination with what's being done to his character in the films, what that might mean.  And, if you start thinking that maybe PoA was simply the beginning of a big arc with regard to Trio dynamics ..... it's just interesting to consider.

I also think that it's incredibly significant that it is Hermione and Neville who are left with Harry in the DoM.  I'm not at all convinced that Rowling just flipped a coin or randomly decided to split the 6 characters up in this fashion with no goal in mind.  Certainly I would expect that if it had been *Ginny* who was with Harry and Neville, the H/G shippers would be proclaiming the narrative significance of this choice with great glee ..... so I feel justified in reaching the same conclusion.  Obviously Rowling was signaling Harry and Neville as doppelgangers ..... as two people linked by the Prophecy ..... and two characters who may both have equally big roles to play in the final end-game.  If Hermione is included with them, isn't that significant?  I think so.  

Penny 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun 20 14:41:20 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:41:20 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] My review...at long last
In-Reply-To: <caqod3+b1bi@...>
References: <caqod3+b1bi@...>
Message-ID: <hu6bd01m132f9jf6vl4cgccliqc2o0bosg@...>

"harpdreamer" <pbnesbit at ...> wrote:

>F
>I
>N
>A
>L
>L
>Y
>R
>A
>I
>N
>E
>D
>I
>N
>S
>U
>M
>M
>E
>R
>V
>I
>L
>L
>E
>
>I'm with everyone else on the hippogriff--where did they find one? 
>The CGI was much, much improved (think they learned something from 
>LotR?)

No, but they finally hired a decent Special Effects company. ;-) The
"Creature Motion" was by Industrial Light & Magic, I remember thinking
after seeing the first movie that they should have hired ILM, the SF/X
would have been a lot better.

>The script was much better too--maybe Kloves has finally learned to 
>write ;) 

Who said a decent director won't make a difference? The job requires
more than just to be able to yell, "Action!". ;-)

>I cried in a couple of places, knowing what fate awaited Sirius 
>(still haven't forgiven Jo for that one).

Oh, believe me, you are *not* the only one. :(

>Unlike a lot of you, I liked the flying scene with Harry & Buckbeak--

I definitely liked that scene, it really didn't bother me that in the
book he didn't like the ride, in the movie it seemed just right.

>I was disappointed that we never find out who sent Harry the broom & 
>Pig to Ron. 

Pig might be cut entirely from the storyline, he's not really
important IMHO. But we do know who sent Harry the broom. There was a,
er, Hippogriff feather that came with the firebolt. (I wonder how
Sirius was able to pull it out and *not* get killed. <g>)

Monika




From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun 20 22:01:10 2004
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (Parker Brown Nesbit)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 18:01:10 -0400
Subject: [the_old_crowd] My review...at long last
Message-ID: <BAY5-F31Ulsd7Rvk1Cw0008eb99@...>





'I love him.  He's like that, and sometimes it shines through somehow.  But 
I love him, whether or no.' --Samwise Gamgee, The Two Towers

'It comes in pints? I want one!'--Peregrin Took, The Fellowship of the Ring

'Anyway, you need people of intelligence on this sort of 
mission...quest...thing.'--Peregrin Took, The Fellowship of the Ring (movie)




>"harpdreamer" <pbnesbit at ...> wrote:

 >F
 >I
 >N
 >A
 >L
 >L
 >Y
 >R
 >A
 >I
 >N
 >E
 >D
 >I
 >N
 >S
 >U
 >M
 >M
 >E
 >R
 >V
 >I
 >L
 >L
 >E
 >


Monika wrote:

>No, but they finally hired a decent Special Effects company. ;-) The
>"Creature Motion" was by Industrial Light & Magic, I remember thinking
>after seeing the first movie that they should have hired ILM, the SF/X
>would have been a lot better.

I thought that too, after the first *two* films

> >I was disappointed that we never find out who sent Harry the broom &
> >Pig to Ron.
>
>Pig might be cut entirely from the storyline, he's not really
>important IMHO. But we do know who sent Harry the broom. There was a,
>er, Hippogriff feather that came with the firebolt. (I wonder how
>Sirius was able to pull it out and *not* get killed. <g>)
>
>Monika

Doug reminded me of that--right *after* I'd sent the e-mail.  I guess 2 1/2 
glasses of wine and good lamb will make you forget anything--either that or 
I've got CRS ;)*  (Can't Remember Sh--)



Parker





From mike at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun 21 11:54:46 2004
From: mike at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid (Aberforth's Goat)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:54:46 +0200
Subject: Deaf Monkey
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F31Ulsd7Rvk1Cw0008eb99@...>
Message-ID: <209B8A03E1FFCC40A577E6FF0DF2524501064A@...>

Which sounds a bit less exciting than def leapard, but then, you can't
have everything ...

Anyway, I'm slaving away at my finals, have a nice new job lined up -
and still waiting for my chance to get out for Az. And hence have been
avoiding your mails like the plague. 

Love to all nontheless - I'll be around!

Mike




From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun 21 17:16:57 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (Monika Huebner)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 19:16:57 +0200
Subject: [the_old_crowd] My review...at long last
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F31Ulsd7Rvk1Cw0008eb99@...>
References: <BAY5-F31Ulsd7Rvk1Cw0008eb99@...>
Message-ID: <lk5ed0dv08dbqe3cvdbl80289khkh1jho1@...>

"Parker Brown Nesbit" <pbnesbit at ...> wrote:

>Monika wrote:
>
>>No, but they finally hired a decent Special Effects company. ;-) The
>>"Creature Motion" was by Industrial Light & Magic, I remember thinking
>>after seeing the first movie that they should have hired ILM, the SF/X
>>would have been a lot better.
>
>I thought that too, after the first *two* films

ILM was involved with CoS, I just checked the IMDB to be sure. I think
they did the basilisk. While I don't care much for the basilisk fight,
it looked a lot better than Fluffy or the centaur in PS. They are
usually quite good with creatures.

Monika




From v-tregan at dumbledad.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun 21 17:20:19 2004
From: v-tregan at dumbledad.yahoo.invalid (Tim Regan (Intl Vendor))
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:20:19 +0100
Subject: OT Company names (was RE: My review...at long last)
Message-ID: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15BDD66B@...>

Hi All,

Monika wrote:
>>> ILM was involved with CoS, I just checked the IMDB to be sure. <<<

But it's their name that's their best bit. I just love the ring of
Industrial Light and Magic, it sounds at once powerful, inevitable, and
yet mysterious. Wonderful naming.

Cheers,

Dumbledad.



From mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun 22 07:01:24 2004
From: mo.hue at agassizde.yahoo.invalid (agassizde)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:01:24 -0000
Subject: OT Company names
In-Reply-To: <502C27106D99DB478C13DEDBFD185E15BDD66B@...>
Message-ID: <cb8lg4+din3@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Tim Regan \(Intl Vendor\)"
<v-tregan at m...> wrote:

> Monika wrote:
> >>> ILM was involved with CoS, I just checked the IMDB to be sure. <<<
> 
> But it's their name that's their best bit. I just love the ring of
> Industrial Light and Magic, it sounds at once powerful, inevitable, and
> yet mysterious. Wonderful naming.

Personally, I think their creatures are well done most of the time.
And while I found a lot of the SF/X in the LotR trilogy impressive,
the creatures weren't really convincing. Just my personal opinion,
though. But yes, Industrial Light and Magic sounds sort of magic. :-)

Monika





From vderark at hp_lexicon.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun 27 20:04:43 2004
From: vderark at hp_lexicon.yahoo.invalid (Steve Vander Ark)
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:04:43 -0400
Subject: Information about Mike Gray
In-Reply-To: <BAY5-F4oGzdMeSsVuKp00021bd5@...>
Message-ID: <mailman.11.1576054918.10649.the_old_crowd@archive.hpfgu.org>

Does anyone have a current email address for Mike? I've been trying to email
him and the address doesn't seem to be any good anymore.

Steve





From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jun 27 21:45:49 2004
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 21:45:49 -0000
Subject: Information about Mike Gray
Message-ID: <cbnf6d+867t@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark"
<vderark at b...> wrote:
> Does anyone have a current email address for Mike? I've been trying 
> to email him and the address doesn't seem to be any good anymore.

Have you tried the "from" @dress on his post
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/678 --
I'm on webview, where it shows me only "mike at a..." but always me to
send an email to him by clicking on it.




From selah_1977 at selah_1977.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun 28 19:49:43 2004
From: selah_1977 at selah_1977.yahoo.invalid (Ebony)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:49:43 -0000
Subject: Congratulations to our very own Steve!!!
Message-ID: <cbpson+e4d7@...>

Hi, Steve and everyone else--

I haven't chatted with Mike Gray in over a year, so I can't help you 
there.  But I did want to congratulate Steve for winning JKR's latest 
Fan Site Award.  I cannot believe that she checks the Lexicon just as 
we do... perhaps we *can* get that Potter Encyclopedia after Book 7 
after all?

Steve, can't think of a site that deserves recognition like this 
more.  Cheers!

All the best,

Ebony




From s_ings at s_ings.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jun 28 19:56:53 2004
From: s_ings at s_ings.yahoo.invalid (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:56:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Congratulations to our very own Steve!!!
In-Reply-To: <cbpson+e4d7@...>
Message-ID: <20040628195653.23510.qmail@...>

--- Ebony <selah_1977 at ...> wrote: > Hi, Steve
and everyone else--
> 
> I haven't chatted with Mike Gray in over a year, so
> I can't help you 
> there.  But I did want to congratulate Steve for
> winning JKR's latest 
> Fan Site Award.  I cannot believe that she checks
> the Lexicon just as 
> we do... perhaps we *can* get that Potter
> Encyclopedia after Book 7 
> after all?
> 
> Steve, can't think of a site that deserves
> recognition like this 
> more.  Cheers!
> 
I'll agree with that. Congrats, Steve!

Sheryll

=====
Follow me to Convention Alley...
http://www.conventionalley.org/
http://www.livejournal.com/community/conventionalley/
http://www.cafeshops.com/conalley 



______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From vderark at hp_lexicon.yahoo.invalid  Tue Jun 29 14:25:33 2004
From: vderark at hp_lexicon.yahoo.invalid (Steve Vander Ark)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:25:33 -0400
Subject: The cat's among the pixies
In-Reply-To: <20040628195653.23510.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <mailman.12.1576054918.10649.the_old_crowd@archive.hpfgu.org>

That subject line is now what I'm going to use on every single email I send.

Okay, not really, but it certainly feels like I've got cats and pixies
everywhere ever since yesterday noon. 

I need some help. I need to find a new editor, someone who has some time
available to do small edits throughout the Lexicon. I am sending this email
to the Old Crowd because, well, you guys are all the people I would ask
first. 

Here's a brief job description:

This editor would receive assignments from me or from Penny (Penny
Linsenmayer has agreed to become  my assistant, for which I am VERY
grateful). The tasks would consist of things like fixing a broken link or
adding a fact to a page. Often these kinds of things turn up in emails from
readers who notice that something is missing or worded wrong etc. The editor
would use a web page editing program of their choice (but not a Microsoft
product, since their products mess up the code) to fix the problem. The
editor would have the accesss to be able to edit the site directly. When the
fix was done, the editor will reply to the email saying that they'd
completed it. Eventually, we'd like to all start using Outlook to help
manage this flow of information, but for now we're going to do it all with
email. I would expect that at first, this editor would have a lot of work to
do, since I have quite a backlog of these kinds of fixes and edits. After
that, I don't expect that it would involve a lot of time each week. The
editor will not need to directly edit HTML code, but would need to have good
enough writing skills that I won't have to go in and edit their work. They
would also need to be willing to follow Lexicon editorial policy and to be
willing to work under me as their manager. They will not get paid for this
work, but they will get their name in the staff section of the Lexicon and
share all the glory and prestige which comes from being part of the Lexicon
staff. Well, okay, forget the glory and prestige bit, but it sounded good.
Especially after saying that there's no pay involved. 

If you're interested in this position, please send me an email with your
qualifications and what program you would be using (and if you own Outlook).
I will assign you a short bit of writing to do for me (sorry, but I do need
to make sure on writing skills). When I have a short list of all interested
persons, I will make a decision and let you all know.

Thanks!

Steve
The Lexicon - Jo's Natural Home
*squeee!*





From voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jun 30 00:12:09 2004
From: voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid (Jeralyn)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:12:09 -0700
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Congratulations to our very own Steve!!
References: <20040628195653.23510.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <009101c45e36$e399aa00$2386b3d1@Study>

Oh that's just too too cool! Congratulations, Steve!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sheryll Townsend" <s_ings at ...>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [the_old_crowd] Congratulations to our very own Steve!!


> --- Ebony <selah_1977 at ...> wrote: > Hi, Steve
> and everyone else--
> > 
> > I haven't chatted with Mike Gray in over a year, so
> > I can't help you 
> > there.  But I did want to congratulate Steve for
> > winning JKR's latest 
> > Fan Site Award.  I cannot believe that she checks
> > the Lexicon just as 
> > we do... perhaps we *can* get that Potter
> > Encyclopedia after Book 7 
> > after all?
> > 
> > Steve, can't think of a site that deserves
> > recognition like this 
> > more.  Cheers!



From pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jun 30 02:40:14 2004
From: pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid (JoAnna Wahlund)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: book 6 title - what do you think?
Message-ID: <20040630024014.17386.qmail@...>

By now, I'm sure you've all heard that JKR has confirmed "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood
Prince" (or HFP) as the title of Book 6.

I haven't been following the chatter on the main HPfGU list - too many messages to wade
through - so please forgive me if this is all old hat.

 JKR has already said that it's neither Voldemort nor Harry, so we can rule them out. 
Which begs the question - who is the half-blood prince? Right now, I see a four or five
possibilities.

1. Tom Riddle.  JKR said that VOLDEMORT is not the half-blood prince - yet she said
nothing about Tom Riddle.  And as we all know, with JKR semantics is a big deal.  What
makes me think of this is Dobby's quote at the end of CoS:  "Was giving you a clue, sir. 
  The Dark Lord, before he took his name, could be freely named, you see?"  Harry shrugs
this off as Dobby being strange, but I believe this quote is the "something minor" in CoS
that will play a large role in HBP.  IMO, this quote means that when LV took the name
"Lord Voldemort," Tom Marvolo Riddle ceased to exist for all intents and purposes. 
However, we did see him in CoS in the form of the diary.  And as JKR refuses to comment
further on what might have happened had Riddle managed to escape from the diary (see her
website), I think Tom Riddle may show up again.

2.  Hagrid.  We know he's a half-blood of dubious parentage - we know his father was a
wizard and his mother was a giant, but we don't know much more than that.  Perhaps Hagrid
will somehow be named Prince of the Giants?

3.  Remus Lupin.  JKR has already said he's a half-blood.  How/why he'd be a prince, I'm
not sure.

4.   Mark Evans.  He'll probably factor into the plot significantly, and I'm willing to
bet he's a half-blood.  As for a prince, who knows?  Maybe he's the illegitimate child of
Charles and Camilla. ;-) (KIDDING!  JUST KIDDING!)

5.  An as-of-yet unintroduced character whose name and history we do not know.  Perhaps
teh new DADA teacher?

So, those are my guesses.  Anyone care to comment?

=====
~JoAnna~ 






		
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