Truth or consequences

[nkafkafi]

> Talisman: Oh, dear.  Now we have anti-attorney propaganda in the 
> mix, too.  Tsk, tsk.  Well, there's nothing for it but to go on 
> being the evil woman attorney who's trying to take away everyone's 
> perfect daddy.

Neri:
I should perhaps clarify that I don't have much emotional investment
in DD as the "perfect daddy" type. Definitely not even close to the
emotional investment that certain fans have in a certain Potions
master. I've considered the possibility that DD lies to us many times
(especially once when his word was the single hole in one of my
favorite theories) and I'll most probably consider it again in the
future. Right now, however, the counter considerations in this and my
previous post still hold for me. These considerations are not
concerned much with the integrity of DD's character, but more with the
integrity of JKR as a mystery writer.  

> Talisman:
> I am bemused to hear that DD is your single, main, or even 95% 
> source for "huge parts" of the HP series mystery.  If others are in 
> the same boat, it's no wonder there is so much angst. 
> 

Neri:
To clarify, when I said liar!DD would break my proposed 5% - 95% rule,
I didn't mean he is the source of 95% of our information. I meant he's
the source of more than 5%. Lying about these 5% would be enough to
break this rule as I worded it.

Here's a very partial list of things that we know exclusively or
mainly because DD says so:

1. Snape is on our side and trustable.

2. The first prophecy is genuine (rather than, as you suggested
yourself, DD's fabrication).

3. The prophecy (now assuming it's genuine) says it's all down to
Harry and Voldy.

4. Neville is the other boy implicated in the prophecy.

5. There's a great power behind the locked door in the DoM, which
Harry has in quantities and Voldy not at all.

6. The blood-protection of the Dursleys' house.

7. The connection between Harry and Voldy was created by the curse
that failed in GH (well, Snape also said this once, but there's the
suspicion that on the other side of Snape's leash, long or short,
you'd find DD).

8. Voldy passed powers to Harry in GH (we do have the parseltongue as
direct evidence, but that's only one ability, even if rare. It doesn't
have to come from Voldy, and if it did it doesn't mean there has to be
more).

9. Everybody should speak Voldemort's name.


Each of us can make his/her own quantitative estimation, what
percentage the above represents out of the main mystery (this is not
all of it, but I'm not a member of the DD surveillance team). Now try
to imagine what is possible if most or all of the above is Not Truth.
I think you'll find that you are talking about a completely different
series. Grand for fanfiction writers, but not for a theorist.

> Talisman:
> As far as I am concerned, the whole tableau is played out before me, 
> for my examination.  I explore every facet, and nobody gets a free 
> pass.  Try it, and I think you'll find your reading more fruitful.
> 

Neri:
I don't give anybody a free pass. DD got this pass from me only after
the considerations listed above and in previous posts.

> Talisman:
> Alas, DD never tells me anything.  I can only observe him telling 
> things to other characters, and in that context, he most certainly 
> does lie.

Neri:
Well then, perhaps this is your problem. DD tells ME quite a lot, and
I have never imagined I'm special in this. I admit that I frequently
feels the urge to shake him for an additional detail or five, but this
is because he knows much more even than the many things he does tell us.

I can remember only one outright lie DD tells in the whole series, and
this is to Fudge in OotP, when he takes on himself the blame of
personally organizing the DA. But of course, WE know very well he's
lying, although Fudge believes it. This is the difference between
lying to characters and lying to us. 

> Talisman: 
> To repeat what I've noted so often before, there is no difference 
> between omissive and comissive lying. 

Neri:
The fact that a person does a lot of omission to avoid telling an
outright lie suggests that he has something against telling an
outright lie (even the one explicit lie he tells Fudge, he only uses
as the very last resort. In fact, judging by what we know about the
nature of Potterverse magic, I won't be surprised if uttering an
explicit lie makes you vulnerable to some magical attacks – see
Marietta's punishment). DD's exact words to Harry in the end of SS/PS are:

"The truth." Dumbledore sighed. "It is a beautiful and terrible thing,
and should therefore be treated with great caution. However, I shall
answer your questions unless I have a very good reason not to, in
which case I beg you'll forgive me. I shall not, of course, lie."

The rule seems to be stated pretty plainly here: DD won't tell Harry
(and us) everything he knows. He'll omit a lot, and sometimes he'll
just refuse to answer, but what he does tell Harry (and us) is Truth.
He gives us fair warning that this Truth should be treated with great
caution. We are free to exercise the mathematician's prudence, but at
the very least we can take as Truth that the ONE side of the sheep is
indeed black. BTW, it seems that JKR follows a similar policy in her
answers to fans.   

> Talisman:
> Oh, and asking subordinates to 
> lie for your purposes? That's culpable, too.  
>

Neri:
No, no, no. That's lying to the bad guys in order to save the good
guys. That's OK. Really. I'm sure there's a clause that says so in
"Things That Are Allowed And Not Allowed In Children Books".
 

Neri, who never had much doubt that Figgy lied about seeing the
dementors.