That Bloody Man Again WAS Re: The curious incident of the Felix Felicis

[bluesqueak]

Nora:
> So he could be helping out Harry--or he could be sincere and far 
> more interested in getting his ass out of there and going off to  
> tell Mr. Boss what he just did for him.  I wonder what the meaning 
> of giving Snape a quasi-comic exit is.  Chased off by an enraged 
> hippogriff--why does JKR make him ridiculous so often?

Pip!Squeak:
Dunno. Usually, that is a sign in a book/drama that someone isn't as 
dangerous as they seem. At least, if they start off ridiculous, they 
can often end up being very dangerous (Quirrel, anyone?), but 
someone who is projecting a dark image and yet is frequently 
ridiculous in reality is often an authorial sign that image and 
reality don't match.

>  Pip!Squeak:
> > If you decide WYSIWYG with Snape, you are actually going against 
> > the text. That is not the straightforward, simple reading. The 
> > straightforward, simple reading is that - after six books - we  
> > have no idea what's going on in this man's head.
> 
Nora:
> The most straightforward reading that I was thinking of takes 
> actions as primary.  Yes, some of these are                       
> complex/contradictory.  However, 
> many of them are not unless you want to complicate them: these 
> culminate in, you know, murdering the Headmaster and running away 
> from Hogwarts.  WYSIWYG says that when Dumbledore gave us the 
> reason for Snape's actions at the end of PS/SS, it was sincere.  
> The text gives us a particular picture of Snape--we are the ones 
> who choose to read more or less into it, going on the lack of     
> explicit motivation.

Pip!Squeak:
But I don't think you are taking his actions as primary, Nora. I 
think you are taking his *words* as primary. That is, you are being 
influenced by his (mainly) verbal treatment of Harry and possibly 
also by his actions being filtered through Harry's pov.

And yes, I genuinely think Snape *hated* James, that this is a given 
facet of his character. Again, there's an awful lot of corroborating 
evidence there. 

But the face value reading of 'that's why Snape hates Harry'? Go 
read Dumbledore's speech again. And notice the one word Dumbledore 
does *not* say, when Harry asks him 'Quirrel says he hates me 
because he hated my father. Is that true?'

Dumbledore does not say 'yes'. In fact, never in his explanation of 
Snape's actions in PS/SS does he say that Snape hates *Harry*. Go 
read it. The hatred is always referred back to James. Snape 
hates/hated James (and in light of Book Six, it's well worth 
remembering that Dumbledore knew this perfectly well).

Face value reading: Dumbledore when asked why Snape hates Harry - 
doesn't answer. Instead, he explains why Snape chose to protect 
Harry.

Snape's actions (outside the taking of points and giving of 
detentions), in PS/SS, in CoS, in PoA, in GoF, in OOP are never 
anything other than protective of the Hogwarts students. And even 
after he's killed Dumbledore and does a runner - still you can look 
at those actions and see - what he does is the best thing that can 
be done for the students. He gets the DE's the heck out of Hogwarts, 
as fast as possible, including Fenrir. And this is part of a 
consistent pattern for Snape.

In PS/SS he tries to stop Quirrell (and also shows himself willing 
to face down a troll). In PoA he considers Lupin-the-werewolf a 
danger and tries to stop him teaching (and eventually, after Lupin 
transforms, does). In GoF he's part of the attack team against Fake!
Moody. In OOP he stops Crabbe (or was it Goyle) strangling Neville.

Deprived of words and divorced from Snape - those actions are 
protective. Deprived of words, Snape is very often shown as someone 
trying to stop students getting killed or injured. If they were 
placed on another character - we'd all be saying, oh, yeah, he's 
protective.

> Pip!Squeak
> > We have no idea why he does what he does. We don't know what 
> > side he's on. We don't know whether he's good, evil, or (going 
> > by the imagery in HBP Chapter 2, and the Hanged Man symbolism) 
> > the person balanced between good and evil, a mixture of both 
> >light and dark.

Nora:
> Despite the canonicity of his being a liar (why is it, then, that 
> y'all are so consistently reading him as lying to Voldemort but 
> not to Dumbledore, when either side is now so totally open?), 

Pip!Squeak: 

Well, I think there is already one theory going around that Snape 
may have, while essentially supporting Dumbledore, absent-
mindedly 'forgotten' to mention the final part of the Unbreakable 
Vow {g}. So there are theories that have him lying to both {ebg}. 

And also, while Dumbledore is undoubtedly more than slightly dead, 
Snape's actions to date seem a little more damaging to the DE's than 
to the OOP. He tried to stop Quirrel getting the stone (actions). He 
showed his Dark Mark (without any orders from Dumbledore) to Fudge 
(action). He, according to Dumbledore, was the one who deduced Harry 
and Co. had gone to the MoM, and sent the Order after them - which 
resulted in Voldemort losing several minions to Azkaban, including 
Malfoy (probably an action - it's reported second hand).

His hit rate for Voldemort, otoh, appears to be: he killed 
Dumbledore. Admittedly, that's one heck of a hit - but everything 
else he's done for Voldemort is a verbal assertion. 

Good thing Voldemort doesn't have friends, really, because with 
friends like Snape, he certainly doesn't need enemies. 

Nora:
> I don't 
> think that essentially impinges upon the demonstrations of 
> grudges/pettiness/whatever you want to call it, assuming something 
> of the WYSIWYG.  I think of this because JKR seems to be working 
> as an essentialist, with people's actions illustrating their inner 
> character.

Pip!Squeak:
Which actions best illustrate character? The grudge holding petty 
git actions? Or the protective-of-student actions? The action in 
Book Six where he kills Dumbledore, or the action in Book One where 
he saves Harry?

The grudge holding petty git actions are annoying. Harry loses 
points for his house. Neville has to survive horrible Potions 
lessons. But in fact, they do both survive, and Harry even gets a 
fairly good OWL grade. Snape (in actions) is a grudge holding petty 
git, but his *actions* as grudge holding petty git are annoying, not 
dangerous.

Which could be JKR's illustration of Snape's inner character, 
y'know. He's a grudge holding petty git (and is culpable for that, 
because he should know better). And that's annoying. And he's also, 
at the same time, someone who tries to protect and teach his pupils. 
Whether or not he has to risk his life to do that.


One final point. His last action is not the killing of Dumbledore. 
His last seen actions (before he gets attacked by Buckbeak) are to 
*not* fight back against Harry, to stop another DE crucio'ing him 
and even to say some things that sound like lessons - 'blocked 
again, and again, and again, until you learn to keep your mouth shut 
and your mind closed' - this when he's fleeing Hogwarts. He also 
tries successfully to get Draco out of Hogwarts.

He kills Dumbledore. And then he acts protectively towards Harry 
(and Draco). Interesting combination.


> 
> -Nora looks forward to Magical Happy Fun Fantasy Quest Mode

Pip!Squeak looks forward to straightforwardly reading Book Seven.