Snape and Lily - school connections?

[Judy]

David said, regarding Slughorn's comments at the Christmas Party:
> Yes, I felt this passage seemed quite significant, and it's clear he
> neither flatters nor snubs Snape in this scene - he hauls Snape into
> the conversation and then gives him second place to Lily in supposed
> influence on Harry's skills.
> What JKR seems to be conveying is that Harry's potions expertise
> reminds him of Lily, and that he is better than Snape.  Given that 
> he is actually using the Half-Blood Prince's recipes, this creates
> something of a puzzle.

What Slughorn says is, "Never had a student produce finer on a first 
attempt, I don't think even you, Severus..." So, Harry isn't better 
than Snape at potions in general; Harry just has better *first* 
attempts than Snape did. Actually, it appears that the text used in 
Advanced Potions is terrible.  Anyone who follows its instructions 
will mess up on the first try.  So, Snape was able to improve upon 
the instructions and make excellent potions-- but presumably this 
took him multiple tries.  Harry has Snape's final recipes, however, 
and can skip all the earlier, failed tries, thus making his initial 
attempt more successful than Snape's. 

Slughorn's attributing Harry's talent to Lily also makes sense to me, 
even if Snape was better than Lily at potions. We know that Slughorn 
places a lot of stock in heredity.  When Harry seems good at a new 
potion, one he apparently has had no chance to learn, Slughorn 
attributes this primarily to genetically-induced talent, which Harry 
could have only gotten from his parents.

Also, Slughorn's comment "not even you, Severus" -- which is said 
twice, in different forms -- could mean that the only person who came 
close to Harry's "natural" skill in potions was Snape.  After all, 
Slughorn never says, "Not even Lily did this well."  (Of course, it's 
also possible that he made reference to Snape rather than Lily just 
because Snape is the one present during the conversation.)  

David speculated:
> My worry is that the "real" explanation is that, in the context of 
> HBP only, JKR was trying to misdirect us into thinking Lily was the 
> HBP (hence Hermione's statements that the HBP could be a woman), 
> and that despite its weakness, 3) is her resolution and there was 
> no special connection between Snape and Lily in the context of 
> Potions.

Quite possible.  Of course, I favor the idea that there was a special 
connection between Snape and Lily -- but not necessarily in the 
context of Potions. 

Snow said:
> Or if I can make another suggestion:
> Snape (like Draco to Granger) overheard and fiercely watched Lily
> while she made her potions, writing down all that she had done 
> which is why the notes were in the book) so he could be as good as 
> her. Maybe Snape's secret wish was to become an Auror and he needed 
> to pass potions (just an aside).

Oh, my!  I don't think I can handle the idea that Snape needed help 
just to pass potions!  I think canon is pretty clear that Snape -- 
whatever else he may be -- is excellent at potions.  He made the 
Wolfbane potion, which Lupin says few wizards can do.  Lily certainly 
didn't show him this, because it was invented after they left school. 
Snape is also able to to figure out exactly what steps a student did 
wrong just by glancing at their cauldron. Dumbledore hired him to 
teach Potions, and Dumbledore may be implying that only Snape can 
save him from the green goo at the end of HBP. It also seems pretty 
clear that Snape had some special skill (although not necessarily at 
potions) that saved Dumbledore when the Ring Horcrux injured him. 

And remember, this is the evidence that's left even if everything 
Snape wrote in his text and everything Slughorn saw him do was 
actually due to Lily's help -- which so far, we have no canon at all 
to support.
 
> Anyway the Snape/Lily referencing reminds me very much of the 
> Draco/Hermione one. Snape and Draco both call their adversaries 
> Mudbloods, of which they both were and both very talented witches. 

Yes, that I noticed, too.  There are those who think Draco picks on 
Hermione to conceal the fact that he likes her.  Hmmmmm... 
("Lollipops" theme starts playing in background.)

And, while we're on the topic of Snape & his potions book, several 
people asked why Snape wrote the corrections directly into the book.  
To me, it makes perfect sense. JKR seems to model many of her 
characters after typical teachers -- maybe ones she knew when she was 
teaching.  Snape is the type of professor who can't *stand* it when 
people get things wrong.  The textbook is wrong, wrong, wrong! So, he 
has to cross out the mistakes and write in the correct information.  
Er, speaking as a pedantic academic type myself, I tend to do the 
exact same thing.  (As for writing the *spells* in the book -- can 
you say "plot device?")
 
Snow signed off as:
> still recovering from too many deaths in the family
not on 
> much since

Ooo, I am very sorry to hear this.  My condolences, and I hope the 
future brings happier days. 


-- Judy, who should be working, but feels compelled to say nice 
things about Snape