[the_old_crowd] Re: Dragons, Produced and Tickled, and Other Pleasantries

[silmariel]

> > Pippin:
> > And despite this long habit, neither Dumbledore nor Voldemort
> > regards him as particularly slippery? OFH!Lucius Malfoy is more
> > like it, methinks.
>

Yes yes, I have some OFH characters in mind and they don't quite overlap with 
Snape but with Lucius, Mundungus, Slughorn... and particularly Voldemort, I 
don't perceive any sense of belonging in him, he's all for himself. To guard 
apparent allegiance to a wizard 1000 years dead is quite of an excuse, I'm 
sure that if old Sally resurrected, they wouldn't join forces and happily 
hunt the bad side (from their PoV). Voldemort won't accept anything or anyone 
opposing to /him/, imo, not to his side.There's a reason that wizards don't 
rule the world, it's called wizards... (waves to Pratchett)

OFHs... Han Solo (at least that's how he starts), Riddick (from Pitch Black), 
Martin (from Flesh&Blood, by Verhoeven), Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean, 
mostly every replicant in Blade Runner... open to suggestions, I really don't 
remember too many OFHs.

I can make a personality for both DDM and ESE Snape's that maintains behaviour 
and speeches in canon, but I don't get anything coherent with OFH Snape, will 
you explain how do you see him? 

But more particularly, I'd like to express my desbelief that Harry will be 
able to notice the distinction between an OFH Snape and an ESE Snape. It will 
be hard enough for him to make some sort of ammends with DDM Snape, but I 
can't picture him entering in subtle distinctions between evil and 
oportunist, detatched, egoist... regarding to Snape, of course, I don't say 
he can't allow it in other characters who are not hated by him, but in Snape, 
that figure of all that is bad in this world?  

Nora:
> Lucius Malfoy maybe--but one thing I got absolutely dead-to-rights in
> HBP is that Lucius Malfoy is the most over-estimated character in the
> fandom, not the second coming of the Dark Lord.
>

It must be the hair, or that OFHs are sometimes more liked that not, after 
all, if he is in Voldie's side apparently but really OFH, is fine. Or the 
hair, really. I agree he's been amply over estimated, unless JKR breaks that 
particular trend of making him not worthy as DE (or as anything).

> > Pippin:
> > What about anti-werewolf bias? That seems to be moving front and
> > center,  ESE!Lupin or no. It's interesting that Fenrir seems to
> > be trying to create a racial identity for werewolves, that it's
> > something he thinks they need in order to gain recognition for
> > their interests.
>
Nora:
> On the other hand, anti-werewolf bias doesn't have the constructive
> factor that the blood prejudice does.  That both says something good
> about some people (we're innately superior) and provides a scapegoat
> group.  "We're not werewolves" isn't structually similar.
>

Huh? So what? I mean, as general message not to us that inspect the series 
inch by inch, but to the general public. It dehumanices all the same. Blood 
is easier to see for us, but it is not the only means of selection. I don't 
notice the difference between being an ill treated werewolf, an ill treated 
house elf, an ill treated muggle, or an ill treated wizard with an interest 
in dark arts.

I think that is clear in DD's message, so as visible as the DE factor can be, 
if we think that's /the/ problem, and not the lack of integration, we'll have 
the same problems over and over again, just with other labels.

Then, I don't mind having such an I'm sure you'll think simple and generic 
approach, I'm not a scholar, but I think intolerance makes a big appearance 
in scene.

Nora:
> Ummm, so non-aggressive snooping deserves a broken nose?

That comes from the end of OoP train scene, sure, not for snooping.

Silmariel, who has just learned what she does when she snoops players.