From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan  1 14:42:51 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:42:51 -0000
Subject: Watch the birdie
Message-ID: <cr6ctb+vavh@...>



A-a-a-a-a-h.
'Scuse me, just easing me boots off.
Time to unwind a bit, relax in the pastoral peace of the 
Semi-Retirement Home for Mendicant Posters. A closed 
Order of course, dedicated to the solitary contemplation 
of past glories and words that will not be written in the 
future (odd how often "on mature reflection" equates to 
"can't be bothered"), where the hurly-burly of other boards
signifies little more than the crackling of thorns under a pot. 

Nice. Restful. Even bucolic.
Why, there's even a capriform even-toed ungulate wandering
around the place. Fabulous beast by all accounts, scratch his 
horns and he masticates. Might almost be from the realms of 
fiction. Mind you, there are other things from the realms of 
fiction that could be usefully employed in the everyday world. 
That Owl Post thingy, for instance. What  a boon that'd be. 
No more standing in a Post Office queue, inching forward at 
a speed inferior to that of  a glacier with bunions, just to get a 
damn stamp to wish an intensely irritating cousin (seemingly 
hell-bent on a breeding program designed to produce the most
nauseating kids west of the Urals) a Happy Christmas. No more 
leaden-footed, hellebore-crushing mail deliverer who practices 
his advanced origami on your precious post as he drags you out 
of the shower to take delivery of a package for - who? Not you, 
mate, it's for next door. Yep;  by-passing all that for the cost of 
a few owl pellets and a moribund mouse or two would be bliss.

And then I got to thinking - why'd she choose owls?
Generally speaking owls haven't had a particularly good press 
throughout history. Came off best among the Greeks; symbol of 
Athene - though in her attribute as protector rather than as a 
symbol of wisdom.

Romans? Not good. An owl hoot presaged a death. Nail a dead 
one to the door to ward off evil. Witches transformed themselves 
into owls and sucked the blood of babies. Obviously a  stumbling
attempt  to fulfill a cultural need later satisfied by  the invention 
of Gothic Horror.

England much the same, though an owl carcass would also protect
a house against lightning. The "bird of doom" according to Wordsworth.

So a more or less strictly nocturnal predatory loner with a bad 
folkloric reputation gets picked by Jo as the WW equivalent of UPS. 
Strange. More so since JKR seems to dig into mythology a lot when 
designating roles for her beasties. Oh, there are changes of course, 
ghouls being an obvious example. Can't see the one in the Weasley 
attic raiding the local graveyard for lunch, somehow. Molly would go
spare when it tracked dirt up the stairs.

Don't know about you, but thinking about it I'd have expected 
something from the Corvidae; the raven's your bird for positive reader
recognition when it comes to fantasy. Supposedly royal birds (Arthur 
is supposed to have turned into one), then there's Hugin and Mugin, 
memory and thought, Odin's equivalent of the internet. He wanted to 
know something? Listen to the birds. And if you want a bit of atmosphere,
gibbering old Edgar A. Poe found them suitable for his purposes too.

Why stick to any one Order at all, Corvidae or Strigiformes? 
Spread it about a bit, get the fans discussing the significance of 
Lockhart's cuckoo, Fudge's pigeon, why Neville has a turkey. 
Though Crouch!Moody's  vulture would have been a bit of a give-away.

Hmm. Come to think of it, Errol is the closest thing to a dead duck 
I've seen in the books; what does this mean for vol. 6?

Kneasy







From talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan  2 08:50:17 2005
From: talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid (Talisman)
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 08:50:17 -0000
Subject: Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <cr6ctb+vavh@...>
Message-ID: <cr8ck9+rii2@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
>  <snip>
> That Owl Post thingy, for instance. What  a boon that'd be. 
> <snip> And then I got to thinking - why'd she choose owls?
><snip> Why stick to any one Order at all <snip> Spread it about a 
bit, get the fans discussing the significance of 
> Lockhart's cuckoo, <snip> what does this mean for vol. 6?
> > Kneasy

Talisman, adjusting her binoculars, responds: 

Well,Sirius does use those "large, brightly colored tropical
birds 24) to communicate with Harry in GoF.  Possibly an elaborate 
ruse to throw the Aurors off his trail. What hit- wizard in his 
right mind would think that flamingo flapping over Norfolk has 
anything to hide?  

Of course the Cockatoo's a classic symbol of treachery, so 
Sirius's preference here resolves the question of SAD DENIAL,
once and for all. Well spotted.

On the other hand, this owl lore seems rather prolific and a bit 
dodgy.  

Decided to dig up a little research, myself.

Quite a surprise.  I've lived in the states all my life and yet
only just found out that, in America, hearing an owl-cry obliges the 
citizen to either return the call or strip down, turn clothes inside 
out, and put them on again.  I confess to being unsure which is the 
more patriotic course.   

The same, possibly overexcited, source, informs me that 
Transylvanian farmers will try to scare owls away by walking round 
their fields with their pants off--evidence that they once visited 
Americans who hadn't mastered hooting.

The Welsh are said to believe that an owl will call out to alert the 
community to the loss of an unmarried girl's virginity. 
In reality,the owl's just trying to avoid those hyped-up naked 
farmers, whom you should have known better than to let anywhere near 
the virgins.  

Less titillating sources have it that, while Muggles might tack poor 
Errol to the cow shed, pre-Christian Scots associated the bird with 
the Cailleah, a crone manifestation of the Triple Goddess. Here the 
owl's desirable magical attributes included such gifts as dream 
messages, prophecy, and the ability to reveal deception or hidden 
spiritual truths.     

However, modern-day Scottish Muggles continue to consider it bad 
luck to see an owl in daylight.  Several sources cite instances of 
afternoon owl sightings closely followed by unpleasant incidents 
involving a lot of Transylvanian cellulite and the outraged fathers 
of deflowered virgins.

Talisman, who can now see that Book 6 will come in a plain brown 
wrapper.







From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan  2 19:41:47 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:41:47 -0000
Subject: Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <cr8ck9+rii2@...>
Message-ID: <cr9ipr+be09@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457 at y...> wrote:
> snip>
> The Welsh are said to believe that an owl will call out to alert the 
> community to the loss of an unmarried girl's virginity. 
> In reality,the owl's just trying to avoid those hyped-up naked 
> farmers, whom you should have known better than to let anywhere near 
> the virgins.  
> 
> snip
> However, modern-day Scottish Muggles continue to consider it bad 
> luck to see an owl in daylight.  Several sources cite instances of 
> afternoon owl sightings closely followed by unpleasant incidents 
> involving a lot of Transylvanian cellulite and the outraged fathers 
> of deflowered virgins.
> 
> Talisman, who can now see that Book 6 will come in a plain brown 
> wrapper.


Well, I live less than a mile from the Welsh border and I have to report
a dearth of hooting owls. Either it's too soon or too late. And since
Candy Valley (a local trysting place) has the most animated shrubbery 
since Birnham Wood came to Dunsinane......

Scots Muggles who follow the old traditions tend not to wear trousers
anyway - I always did wonder why, now I know. There was/is a hell of
a lot of owls about, no doubt centred on Hogwarts. Mind you, it is rather
worrying that a traditional Scots expression is "Hoots, mon."
It does make you wonder.
Exciting lives, some people lead.

Kneasy






From talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan  2 21:12:26 2005
From: talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid (Talisman)
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:12:26 -0000
Subject: Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <cr9ipr+be09@...>
Message-ID: <cr9o3q+59ne@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> 
> Well, I live less than a mile from the Welsh border and I have to 
report a dearth of hooting owls. 
> > > Kneasy


Fiddle-dee-dee Kneasy. After a large number of loud-mouth owls 
snuffed it in the jaws of a large ginger cat, the rest of the flock 
steer clear of the Arrowsmith neighborhood. Probably no virgins left 
within a ten mile cat's-prowl of a certain cave, anyway.

T








From aberforthsgoat at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan  2 22:49:44 2005
From: aberforthsgoat at aberforths_goat.yahoo.invalid (Aberforth's Goat / Mike Gray)
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 23:49:44 +0100
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <cr6ctb+vavh@...>
Message-ID: <003a01c4f11d$5a7a0bf0$0300a8c0@shasta>

A small, white goat wonders into the forum. It gambols happily after a
butterfly and nibbles at the greenery. How very nice to be back in
Farmer Gray's thistle patch! 

But what is this! Some birdie person insinuated,

> Nice. Restful. Even bucolic.
> Why, there's even a capriform even-toed ungulate wandering 
> around the place. Fabulous beast by all accounts, scratch his 
> horns and he masticates. 

The ungulate's slightly reddish eyes narrow. He undulates, and ululates
quietly, as he re-reads: 

"Scratch him and he masta"-does-*what*? 

The small goat ponders, and examines his toes, and squints suspiciously
at the interloper. Exactly what is this impertinent youngster
fantasizing about doing to him and watching him do? And where, and why,
does it like to imagine him doing this? It examines its hooves and
(ehem) ruminates: *how* does it imagine him doing this? Has he been
missing a lot of fun all these years?

The small, very innocent, goat wonders mightily about bipeds who are
obsessed with birds. They should be watched. Carefully. Salaciously?

And then it got to thinking,

> - why'd she choose owls?
> Generally speaking owls haven't had a particularly good press 
> throughout history. Came off best among the Greeks; symbol of 
> Athene - though in her attribute as protector rather than as a 
> symbol of wisdom.

Snort. If only it had enjoyed the wisdom of philosophy - if only it had
read Hegel and knew about the owls of Minerva fluttering in at twilight,
with wisdom in toe. That's the best reason I can come up with for using
owls. 

That and the thought of a bunch of lugubrious ravens turning up after a
bad Poe trip, claiming they bring never more than one package at a time
- it's union policy and if you don't like it you can ride the Hogwarts
train to the Amazon and get the package for yourself.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, 
so that may not have been bravery...."




From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan  3 14:36:38 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:36:38 -0000
Subject: Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <003a01c4f11d$5a7a0bf0$0300a8c0@shasta>
Message-ID: <crbl9m+ivpk@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat / Mike Gray" > 

> The small goat ponders, and examines his toes, and squints suspiciously
> at the interloper. Exactly what is this impertinent youngster
> fantasizing about doing to him and watching him do? And where, and why,
> does it like to imagine him doing this? It examines its hooves and
> (ehem) ruminates: *how* does it imagine him doing this? Has he been
> missing a lot of fun all these years?
>
> The small, very innocent, goat wonders mightily about bipeds who are
> obsessed with birds. They should be watched. Carefully. Salaciously?
> 
> Snort. If only it had enjoyed the wisdom of philosophy - if only it had
> read Hegel and knew about the owls of Minerva fluttering in at twilight,
> with wisdom in toe. That's the best reason I can come up with for using
> owls. 
> 

Youngster? Oh, joy!
You flatterer, you.
Paraphasing the immortal W.S.Gilbert might  be more apposite:
"He could easily pass for 45 in the dusk with the light behind him."
In a thick fog maybe.

As for goats - they have garnered something of a reputation in phrase
and fable. Plus unfortunate connotations when the word is associated 
with prefixes like scape- or sacrificial. Stay away from those old temples,
is my advice. If somebody draped in a bedsheet and whiffing of incense 
starts to get friendly - don't pause to ruminate, it could be kebab time.
But you'll have worked that one out already.

Fear not, no salacious thoughts; not about goats anyway. Esmerelda
maybe, but her goat that could spell, no. It'd be inappropriate.

Hegel. Dear old Georg.
Not my favourite bedtime reading but he'd fit in well on an HP site - didn't
he posit that facts were important to a theory, but only to a certain extent?
Lots of posters would be happy with that thought; it'd allow a comfortable
amount of elbow room for textual interpretation and development of theories
about what's what and why in the Potterverse.

> That and the thought of a bunch of lugubrious ravens turning up after a
> bad Poe trip, claiming they bring never more than one package at a time
> - it's union policy and if you don't like it you can ride the Hogwarts
> train to the Amazon and get the package for yourself.
> 

Lugubrious is understandable when stuck in the verse of someone like Poe.
It's hardly a bundle of laughs. 'Specially if Jack Schitt were still in there. 
But there's another reason for favouring ravens over owls in HP, at least
for someone with my tendency to find plots all over the well, plot.
What's the collective noun for ravens? 
A conspiracy, of course.
Lovely!

Kneasy









From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan  3 19:53:09 2005
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:53:09 -0000
Subject: Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <crbl9m+ivpk@...>
Message-ID: <crc7r5+c8oi@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> > 
> Lugubrious is understandable when stuck in the verse of someone 
like Poe. It's hardly a bundle of laughs. 'Specially if Jack Schitt 
were still in there. 
> But there's another reason for favouring ravens over owls in HP, at 
least
> for someone with my tendency to find plots all over the well, plot.
> What's the collective noun for ravens? 
> A conspiracy, of course.
> Lovely!
> 
> Kneasy

Fortunately Jack is well, lost in the plots..

But owls, now. Mustn't dismiss them so quickly. Can't help but remind 
the assembled worthies of their role in creating that most decorative 
of accessories - a FEATHERBOA. (Worn by all the best dressed men on 
the Welsh borders, y'know, possibly to the consternation of the local 
virgins).

Trust we've moved on far enough to read the following, and smile.

>From 35324:
The not-altogether-lacking-in-blood-thirst herself Tabouli wrote:

> A mere hour later she has managed to convince Pigwidgeon, Errol and
> Hedwig to sacrifice their lives and feathers for the cause, and is 
> swiftly, silently closing in on the savage sofa springers, ready to 
> smother and bind them all in...

> F.E.A.T.H.E.R.B.O.A.S.! (Foaming Enthusiasts of Ambush, Torture, and
> Hostility, Embracing Really Bloodthirsty Operations And Savagery))

Elkins, blinking quizzically as she tries to deduce just what Cindy 
might have *meant* when she just hissed "Take one for the team, 
Elkins!" and shoved her off of the rock like that, catches her 
balance, removes her pipe from her mouth to gesticulate, half-turns, 
and has time for only the briefest of alarmed squawks before finding 
herself lying on soft sand, wrapped head to toe in mangy old feather 
boas. She thrashes wildly for a few moments then freezes, staring in 
disbelief at the bloodied owl feathers -- the bloodied and yet 
monstrously *familiar* owl feathers -- from which her bonds would 
seem to be crafted.

"I--" she gasps, a look of sick horror slowly spreading across her 
face. "Errol?" And then a hoarse, a disbelieving whisper: "*Pig*?"

"NO!" she screams, struggling madly to free herself from the remains 
of these cruelly- and gratuitously-sacrificed minor characters. 
"NO! Oh my God, Tabouli, what have you *done?* MURDERER! 
MADWOMAN!! FIEND!!!!"

As she degenerates into incoherent hysteria, Elkins' alarmed 
companions rush to her aid: Tough Cindy, who begins slapping her 
repeatedly in the face while screaming, spit flying from the corners 
of her mouth, "Suck it *up,* soldier! Suck it *up,* damn you!"; and 
Amiable Eileen (looking cute as all get-out in that horned helmet she 
always wears to our FEATHERBOAS meetings as a part of her blood-
thirsty "Lucky Kari" persona), who after a few futile attempts at 
intervention ("Er...Cindy? I, um, don't think that that's 
necessarily, um, helping. I think, you know, that the...the 
*hitting* may be...well, it just might be increasing her sense of 
anxiety..."), simply shrugs, sighs, shakes her head, and goes off to 
brew a nice hot cup of tea.








From willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan  7 19:59:39 2005
From: willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid (potioncat)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 19:59:39 -0000
Subject: An introduction  and Re: Watch the birdie
In-Reply-To: <crc7r5+c8oi@...>
Message-ID: <crmpnb+p53u@...>


>Carolyn wrote: 
> Fortunately Jack is well, lost in the plots..
> 
> But owls, now. Mustn't dismiss them so quickly. Can't help but 
remind 
> the assembled worthies of their role in creating that most 
decorative 
> of accessories - a FEATHERBOA. (Worn by all the best dressed men 
on 
> the Welsh borders, y'know, possibly to the consternation of the 
local 
> virgins).
> 
> Trust we've moved on far enough to read the following, and smile.

>snip

Potioncat:
First, uh, I was going to suggest the owls were because
 1) Folklore considers them bad news, making them perfect for 
magical communication and
 2) In T.H. White's books, Merlyn kept a pet owl who could talk to 
him...but, uh, I can't think of anyway to make it funny, or clever 
or filled with innuendo. So, erm well...

Hi,
I was invited to join this group last fall just as I had convinced 
myself to stop spending so much time on Harry Potter. But when I saw 
who was over here...well, I couldn't refuse. I am honored to be 
invited and wonder if it wasn't a mistake? (Too late,I know the 
address!) 

At the same time I became involved with a nefarious bunch of HP fans 
who have kept me pretty busy reading old posts. So, while I had a 
TOC membership card, I rarely visited and lurked at that. But 
now I'm ready to say hello.

I'm a nurse by education and a homemaker by choice. I have to admit 
I'm sort of a cross between Pomfrey and Molly. My kids call me a 
Potterhead and my husband thinks I have a cyber-boyfriend. I've 
written fanfiction but really prefer arguing HP details.  My aunt 
was a seer, she always said "Kathy, you would argue with a post!

What I like most about this site is that I can take several days to 
think of a snappy reply to a thread...and still post it in a timely 
manner.

Kathy/Potioncat, looking forward to joining in.






From voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jan 13 20:22:06 2005
From: voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid (Jeralyn)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:22:06 -0800
Subject: Shouting out to Siriusgeologist
Message-ID: <001901c4f9ad$8e48a340$0d07f4d8@Study>

Hey, Carole, are you out there? If so, I have a bone to pick with you. I was 
doing some reading of old posts, and came across your reading recommendation 
of the Outlander series.

I have gotten NOTHING done this week. At all. I read the first four, and 
have just started The Fiery Cross. I cannot put these books down. My husband 
doesn't even remember what my face looks like as it's been buried in books 
all week! LOL

-Jeralyn 




From pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 15 22:03:35 2005
From: pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid (JoAnna Wahlund)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:03:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <001901c4f9ad$8e48a340$0d07f4d8@Study>
Message-ID: <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>

Hi everyone.

Elanor Mary Wahlund ("Elly") was born at 12:20pm on 1/13/05 after 27 total hours of
labor.  She's 7lbs 10.8oz and 20in long.  Active labor lasted about 12 hours, and I
pushed for 1 hour 15 min.  It was the most excruciatingly painful experience of my life,
but I'd do it again for her.  We had an all-natural childbirth - no drugs, and no
episiotimy.  I do have a 2nd degree tear, but I'm healing well. I'll post pics once I
download them off of the camera.  She has a full head of light brown hair!

=====
~JoAnna~ 

Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!  
http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund





		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com 



From heidi8 at heiditandy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 15 22:07:33 2005
From: heidi8 at heiditandy.yahoo.invalid (Heidi)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:07:33 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>
References: <001901c4f9ad$8e48a340$0d07f4d8@Study>
	 <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <5913e6f805011514077c7cd208@...>

Oh, congratulations! Can't wait to see photos - and being a Capricorn
is *great*. And excellent for you for the natural childbirth!

Men, shield your eyes:
Isn't the feeling when Bebe pops out the most wonderful in the world?


Best,
Heidi


On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:03:35 -0800 (PST), JoAnna Wahlund
<pt4ever at ...> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> Elanor Mary Wahlund ("Elly") was born at 12:20pm on 1/13/05 after 27 total hours of
> labor.  She's 7lbs 10.8oz and 20in long.  Active labor lasted about 12 hours, and I
> pushed for 1 hour 15 min.  It was the most excruciatingly painful experience of my life,
> but I'd do it again for her.  We had an all-natural childbirth - no drugs, and no
> episiotimy.  I do have a 2nd degree tear, but I'm healing well. I'll post pics once I
> download them off of the camera.  She has a full head of light brown hair!
> 
> =====
> ~JoAnna~
> 
> Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!
> http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>



From saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 15 22:12:23 2005
From: saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid (Saitaina)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:12:23 -0800
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
References: <001901c4f9ad$8e48a340$0d07f4d8@Study> <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...> <5913e6f805011514077c7cd208@...>
Message-ID: <00db01c4fb4f$4aedc0a0$01fea8c0@...>

CONGRATS!!!

Can't wait to see the piccies!

Saitaina
****
"I will not lick the manga...I will not
lick the manga..."

I'm cute... and a psycho. Hm, it evens
out!

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on
all this and plow face-first into a
tree because I was looking the wrong
bloody way. And I'll still be having a
better day than I am today."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From macloudt at macloudt.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 15 22:39:27 2005
From: macloudt at macloudt.yahoo.invalid (Mary Jennings)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 22:39:27 +0000
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <BAY15-F23A29B00D461AD9F5C68A2C68C0@...>

Congratulations to you and your family, JoAnna, and a big hug and welcome to 
little Elly!

Mary Ann
(who will gladly discuss 2nd degree tears but offlist so as not to squick 
anyone out!)





From pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 15 22:58:51 2005
From: pbnesbit at harpdreamer.yahoo.invalid (Parker Brown Nesbit)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:58:51 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <BAY5-F9AA3A29F8666002EE3431D08C0@...>

Congratulations Johanna and welcome Elly!

You're a braver woman than I, Johanna.  (that goes for *everyone* who's had 
natural childbirth)

Parker, who got her kids when she started dating their father





From s_ings at s_ings.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 16 03:29:56 2005
From: s_ings at s_ings.yahoo.invalid (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 22:29:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <20050116032956.7428.qmail@...>

That's wonderful news! Congrats and welcome to Elly!

Sheryll

 --- JoAnna Wahlund <pt4ever at ...> wrote: 
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> Elanor Mary Wahlund ("Elly") was born at 12:20pm on
> 1/13/05 after 27 total hours of
> labor.  She's 7lbs 10.8oz and 20in long.  Active
> labor lasted about 12 hours, and I
> pushed for 1 hour 15 min.  It was the most
> excruciatingly painful experience of my life,
> but I'd do it again for her.  We had an all-natural
> childbirth - no drugs, and no
> episiotimy.  I do have a 2nd degree tear, but I'm
> healing well. I'll post pics once I
> download them off of the camera.  She has a full
> head of light brown hair!
> 
> =====
> ~JoAnna~ 
> 


______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 16 18:43:39 2005
From: pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid (JoAnna Wahlund)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:43:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <5913e6f805011514077c7cd208@...>
Message-ID: <20050116184339.61400.qmail@...>

Pics here!

http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund/elanor.html

--- Heidi <heidi8 at ...> wrote:

> Oh, congratulations! Can't wait to see photos - and being a Capricorn
> is *great*. And excellent for you for the natural childbirth!
> 
> Men, shield your eyes:
> Isn't the feeling when Bebe pops out the most wonderful in the world?
> 
> 
> Best,
> Heidi
> 
> 
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:03:35 -0800 (PST), JoAnna Wahlund
> <pt4ever at ...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi everyone.
> > 
> > Elanor Mary Wahlund ("Elly") was born at 12:20pm on 1/13/05 after 27 total hours of
> > labor.  She's 7lbs 10.8oz and 20in long.  Active labor lasted about 12 hours, and I
> > pushed for 1 hour 15 min.  It was the most excruciatingly painful experience of my
> life,
> > but I'd do it again for her.  We had an all-natural childbirth - no drugs, and no
> > episiotimy.  I do have a 2nd degree tear, but I'm healing well. I'll post pics once I
> > download them off of the camera.  She has a full head of light brown hair!
> > 
> > =====
> > ~JoAnna~
> > 
> > Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!
> > http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 


=====
~JoAnna~ 

Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!  
http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund





		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com 



From voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 16 18:51:27 2005
From: voicelady at the_voicelady.yahoo.invalid (Jeralyn)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 10:51:27 -0800
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
References: <20050115220335.70170.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <00a301c4fbfc$6339cfc0$9907f4d8@Study>

Congratulations to you and Happy Birthday to baby Elanor!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoAnna Wahlund" <pt4ever at ...>
To: <the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)


>
> Hi everyone.
>
> Elanor Mary Wahlund ("Elly") was born at 12:20pm on 1/13/05 after 27 total 
> hours of
> labor.  She's 7lbs 10.8oz and 20in long.  Active labor lasted about 12 
> hours, and I
> pushed for 1 hour 15 min.  It was the most excruciatingly painful 
> experience of my life,
> but I'd do it again for her.  We had an all-natural childbirth - no drugs, 
> and no
> episiotimy.  I do have a 2nd degree tear, but I'm healing well. I'll post 
> pics once I
> download them off of the camera.  She has a full head of light brown hair!
>
> =====
> ~JoAnna~
>
> Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!
> http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund




From s_ings at s_ings.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 16 18:53:23 2005
From: s_ings at s_ings.yahoo.invalid (Sheryll Townsend)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:53:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <20050116184339.61400.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <20050116185323.57001.qmail@...>

 --- JoAnna Wahlund <pt4ever at ...> wrote: 
> 
> Pics here!
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund/elanor.html
> 

She's lovely! 

Sheryll

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca



From akhillin at akhillin.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 16 21:42:17 2005
From: akhillin at akhillin.yahoo.invalid (Anita Hillin)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:42:17 -0600
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
In-Reply-To: <20050116184339.61400.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <NIBBKEDBGLMCFDGDHHILOEEJCBAA.akhillin@...>

Congratulations on an adorable daughter.  She has lots of hair!  We
Capricorns always welcome new additions to the fold (I was born the next
day -- just a FEW decades earlier...)

Good for you on the natural childbirth, too.  My sister, when she had my
nephew in 1982 naturally(on January 14, I might add), swore NEVER AGAIN.
Fortunately, she relented on no more kids, but she did use drugs thereafter.

akh

-----Original Message-----
From: JoAnna Wahlund [mailto:pt4ever at ...]
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:44 PM
To: the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the
world :)



Pics here!

http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund/elanor.html

--- Heidi <heidi8 at ...> wrote:

> Oh, congratulations! Can't wait to see photos - and being a Capricorn
> is *great*. And excellent for you for the natural childbirth!
>
> Men, shield your eyes:
> Isn't the feeling when Bebe pops out the most wonderful in the world?
>
>
> Best,
> Heidi
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:03:35 -0800 (PST), JoAnna Wahlund
> <pt4ever at ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone.
> >
> > Elanor Mary Wahlund ("Elly") was born at 12:20pm on 1/13/05 after 27
total hours of
> > labor.  She's 7lbs 10.8oz and 20in long.  Active labor lasted about 12
hours, and I
> > pushed for 1 hour 15 min.  It was the most excruciatingly painful
experience of my
> life,
> > but I'd do it again for her.  We had an all-natural childbirth - no
drugs, and no
> > episiotimy.  I do have a 2nd degree tear, but I'm healing well. I'll
post pics once I
> > download them off of the camera.  She has a full head of light brown
hair!
> >
> > =====
> > ~JoAnna~
> >
> > Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!
> > http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


=====
~JoAnna~

Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!
http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund






__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com




Yahoo! Groups Links










From saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 16 22:45:04 2005
From: saitaina at saitaina.yahoo.invalid (Saitaina)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:45:04 -0800
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: there's a new Harry Potter fan in the world :)
References: <20050116184339.61400.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <006f01c4fc1d$059ad1e0$01fea8c0@...>

All I gotta say is...


SOOO CUUUTTTEEE!


Saitaina
****
"I will not lick the manga...I will not
lick the manga..."

I'm cute... and a psycho. Hm, it evens
out!

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saitaina

"No, one day I'm going to look back on
all this and plow face-first into a
tree because I was looking the wrong
bloody way. And I'll still be having a
better day than I am today."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 17 15:45:05 2005
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:45:05 -0000
Subject: Elanor Mary
Message-ID: <csgmi1+t4q3@...>


Joanna, I saw the announcement in the Forum and grinned like a maniac 
for several hours after.  I figured you'd want to make the big 
announcement, so I used the time to compose a poem in your honour.  I 
can now fit the baby's name into it.  Hope you like it. 



Elanor Mary

The sky was grey, the wind did blow.
The temp was 97 below.
The frigid folks of Fargo froze
With frostbite in their cheeks and nose.

The snow and cold did chill our bones.
Opinions ranged from shrieks to moans.
In all of this a girl was arrived,
As if to say "We have survived!"

A glow of life, a new beginning,
A shout to nature: "We are winning!"
A life came to a barren land
And love to warm us, heart and hand.

A family, once two, now three.
A newborn girl for all to see.
A family has taken form
With love to last the darkest storm.

A toast to Elly, and to you.
(And Colin, let's give him his due!)
May blue skies light your life ahead.
May only tears of joy you shed.

May she grow wise and strong and good
And and learn the lessons that she should.
May you enjoy this gift so sweet
(And, should you choose, the gift repeat).

May you have patience, and be kind
On those occasions she won't mind.
May you be firm, but loving too,
When teaching what she ought to do.

In just a blink you'll find her grown
And starting out life on her own.
May she grow up as she did start:
A shining light to warm your heart.

With deepest congratulations, Ginger






From entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 17 21:00:40 2005
From: entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid (entropymail)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:00:40 -0000
Subject: HBP Release Date
In-Reply-To: <000301c4e9d1$596c6850$6501a8c0@Henson>
Message-ID: <csh91o+k7da@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Iggy McSnurd"
<CoyotesChild at c...> wrote:
> *grin*  I just realized...
> 
> We hever learned Harry's middle name.  What if it's something like 
> Bartholomew?
> H-alf
> B-lood
> P-rince
> 
> H-arry
> B-artholemew
> P-otter
> 
> It would fit with Rowling's style, wouldn't it?


Perhaps thats why JKR is using the hyphen (that is, Half-Blood Prince
instead of Half Blood Prince).  That would really make the title "HP
and the HP" instead of "HP and the HBP". 

Just a thought.

:: Entropy ::









From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid  Wed Jan 19 12:28:07 2005
From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:28:07 -0000
Subject: ARGH! I did it again
Message-ID: <csljon+ku5u@...>


JoAnna, I am sorry again.  First I misspell your name (many moons 
ago) and now I misspell Collin.  I actually checked the spelling of 
his and Elly's names, and wouldn't you know it, I goofed.  Although, 
in this weather, maybe the two l's were huddling together for warmth 
and looked like one. 

Hope you're having fun with the baby! Ginger






From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jan 20 11:41:52 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:41:52 +0000
Subject: Best of Enemies, pt.I
Message-ID: <471D0724-6AD8-11D9-939B-000A9577CB94@...>

The intention was that this would be a medium-to-longish post reviewing 
a bunch of characters in HP. It's sort of grown on me, in the fashion 
of the herbaceous menace in Little Shop of Horrors, or more accurately 
the cactus in Quatermass I - and if I ever get round to completing 
and/or posting the final product it'll be in at least three parts. One 
of the penalties of being a garrulous old fart.

I do love a thorough-going villain, the nastier the better. This has 
resulted in a noticeable disappointment with the Potter Cycle, the 
presumptive villains (for the most part) being anything but 
thorough-going. Pretty feeble most of 'em. Shame.
But those that might aspire to donning the badge of evil with pride, 
even though they may be doomed to being thwarted at the last ... well, 
they're a pretty diverse lot and I'm willing to bet that not all of 
them are as villainous as they might appear at first sight. 
There's..um.... let's see, 7 males and 2 females. Does that sound about 
right? 'Course, it depends on how strict your classification is, but 
anyway, that's my count.

I don't include El Ratto Grande, P. Pettigrew Esq. That's because I 
have severe doubts that he is as villainous as he's been presented so 
far. It's quite possible that he's less of a baddy than Sirius, maybe 
much less. But that's another story. One to watch out for in the future 
is Bagman - a slimy git if ever I saw one - but he's yet to break 
cover. To a lesser extent Lockhart can be similarly classified: I've 
always wondered if the Obliviate! maestro was around to work his magic 
on the unfortunate Longbottoms, wouldn't put it past him. We'll see - 
maybe as soon as the summer.

5 so-called anti-Harry characters appear in book 1- a fair indication 
that our eponymous hero is in for a right old battering one way or 
another, though my nasty suspicious mind does wonder how any youngster, 
untrained and ignorant as he is, could possibly prevail against such an 
array of dastardly foes. IMO he can't, not in a world where a wand is a 
sure-fire combination of Swiss Army Knife and AK 47 with a touch of the 
Spanish Inquisitorial behaviour modification programme thrown in for 
good measure. T'ain't credible, not even with that old duffer DD 
pulling strings in the background. And if it isn't credible, then once 
again all might not be what it seems in the Potterverse of sneaky old 
Jo.

Oh, he had 'protection' - but against what? Once you start to look a 
bit closer it doesn't seem all that comprehensive. He's safe inside 
that exemplar of domestic felicity that is chez Dursley, or at least 
he's safe there from ill-intentioned magic, and he is/was protected 
from Voldy - sort of, though even that protection is/was possibly more 
limited than many might assume. But more about that later. If you're 
really lucky I won't bend your  delicate ears with the rationale behind 
Possession Theory - a fascinating concoction of speculation and 
hypothesis (with some tattered shreds of canon support), a personal 
monomania to rank with Ben Gunn's obsession with the rennet-coagulated 
products of the dairy industry and usually presented with an intensity 
worthy of a Class I pub bore. Oh, I don't know though, can't see any 
reason why readers on this site shouldn't suffer too, but in another 
post, I think.

Enough of this maundering. Let's get on with it. Oh - one more thing. 
You may start to suspect that I'm willing to give some of these 
characters considerable leeway in their dealings with young Potter; 
almost bending over backwards in coming up with justifications, excuses 
and presumptions of innocence. Well spotted. That's exactly what I'm 
doing. The books are a pretty well uninterrupted presentation of 
Harry's POV. Hardly objective, startlingly wrong on occasion, Potter is 
not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. A bit of contrary thinking 
won't go amiss, might even be instructive, when reviewing what we've 
seen so far.

Right - who's first? Ah, yes; Uncle Vern.
Originally presented as a semi-comic caricature who by the conventions 
applicable to books about youngsters is sure to be out-manoeuvred at 
every turn, as the books have progressed I've developed a certain 
sympathy for Vernon. He's a natural bully, full of bluster, threats and 
hot air, but even so he's stuck in a nightmare he can do nothing about. 
And there's a chance that it's even worse than that. What fun!

We're in the dark as to how well, if at all, VD knew Lily and James. 
Not too well, I'd imagine; certainly not so well as Petunia did. 
Certainly I can't recall Vernon ever expressing opinions about the 
Potter pair with the venom that his wife does. Magic - that's 
different. It's unnatural, to be shunned and feared. A matter of 
principle - unlike Mrs D. where there seems to be a personal animosity 
at the root of everything. Was Vernon always anti-magic, or is it that 
Petunia made him so?

Vernon would no doubt consider himself as sensible and level-headed, a 
slight contrast to most reader's opinions which would  lean more 
towards the pig-headed and bombastic. One can easily imagine him 
scorning reports of wizards and witches; stuff and nonsense, children's 
tales, that sort of thing. But it goes much further than that; he knows 
they exist and his reaction when confronted with the reality is closer 
to fear and a desperate form of denial than to scorn.

He doesn't treat Harry well, but it's noticeable that the most severe 
reactions occur whenever there's a hint of inadvertent magic from Harry 
or when Harry recounts dreams/memories that  refer back to real events. 
Quite simply, Harry's life would be much more pleasant if he wasn't 
magical. It's possible to argue that Vernon has no animus towards 
Harry, only to what he represents, what he reminds the Dursleys of, and 
perhaps what he might become. More than anything else they want Harry 
to be normal.

My word they do. He's bloody dangerous. You disagree? So tell me, all 
you caring parents out there, what would be your reaction if some 
perverse little snot caused the glass fronting a snake-pit to vanish 
and a bloody great ginormous serpent slides out and snaps 'playfully' 
at your son and heir? I'm sure you'd find it highly amusing. Good joke 
and ice-creams all round, eh?

Just when did Vernon learn to be afraid of the magical world? Well, 
there are theories, I've cobbled some ideas together myself in the past 
(can't help it, I'm a serial theoriser; it's addictive, you know), and 
they involve the previous generation. To a fully paid-up member of the 
League of Conspiracy Theorists (Paranoiac Section) it seems more than 
co-incidental that all four of Harry's grandparents appear  to have 
died within a very short timespan. Authorial convenience or enemy 
action?  If Petunia's parents were given a helping hand by Voldy or his 
henchwizards in shuffling off this mortal coil it would certainly help 
to explain why the Dursleys behave as they do.

Mind you, that's probably not  the only reason. Tell me, is there a 
Muggle in the books that isn't mistreated, patronised or just plain 
used by wizards? Harry is a cuckoo in the nest. They didn't want him 
but they've got him. For the blood protection to work there is no 
alternative. Just what pressures have been applied, I wonder? And Harry 
has learned wizarding attitudes very easily. Threaten 'em with magic - 
at least until they find out he's forbidden to perform it outside 
school. "I've got this stark staring mad mass murderer of a Godfather. 
Treat me right or I'll drop him a line." Add in the not-so-subtle 
mob-threat at the end of OoP  and you realise why I characterise 
Vernon's life as a nightmare. Where can he go? Who can he talk to? Who 
would believe him? Poor bugger.

What's more he's vulnerable. It's that blood protection thing. There's 
protection in the place that Lily's blood calls home. It would be 
reasonable to assume that this protection applies to all who can lay 
claim to belonging to the same blood-line, which would include Petunia 
and Dudders. Not so Vernon. He's out on a limb and since JKR has 
evinced a dislike for the man, I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't 
busy sawing it off.
Vernon for the Black Spot?

Kneasy




From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 22 12:13:37 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:13:37 +0000
Subject: Best of Enemies. pt. 2
Message-ID: <0B915CAB-6C6F-11D9-9CE0-000A9577CB94@...>

Two more of the anti-Harry faction, although to be fair one of them is 
quite possibly an involuntary recruit. Still, that doesn't excuse how 
useless he is. In fact both of them are.
Depressing, isn't it?

Quirrell.
A one book wonder, though instrumental to the overall plot arc in that 
he's the medium that allows Voldy to appear, posture to no great effect 
and then push off to Costa Adriatica where he can brood and hatch his 
plans for a come-back (again) - leaving us with information, hints and 
pointers that lay the ground-work for future action and revelations.

It's never made clear just how Quirrell became carrier to the Voldy 
parasite, though in his natural state he's unlikely to be a Voldy 
supporter, given his little speech where he says that he used to have 
"ridiculous ideas about good and evil" until Voldy put him straight.  
Certainly at the climax he's gung-ho for Voldy, but he would be with 
old Snake-eyes perched above his back collar-stud. What background 
information there is comes from a possessed Quirrell (hardly unbiased) 
or courtesy of Hagrid, a dodgy source IMO. Not that he deliberately 
lies, but he's given to hyperbole and over-simplification, and in this 
instance reporting hearsay, which can mislead all too easily.

For sure Quirrell's not a brilliant wizard - he whitters on about how 
much he's been punished for letting the side down, not performing to 
Voldy's exacting standards, etc. and he's not impressive in PS/SS 
either - or at least not when it comes to Harry. Getting in and out of 
Gringotts without being caught was a nifty bit of work though, no 
matter that we're left in the dark as to how and whether it was 
master-minded and guided by His Evilness esconced amidst his dandruff 
while he did it. Maybe not; he shook hands with Harry in the Leaky 
Cauldron without any noticeable effect on either of them, so maybe 
Voldy was parked as left luggage on a regular basis.

I've never been very happy with the plot details associated with 
Quirrell in that first book.
A marked speech impediment - which if we give credence to Flitwick's 
homilies would negate accurate spell casting - so how could he teach 
effectively?
A troll in the dungeons - where the hell did that come from? Is there a 
home delivery service? Perhaps there is - he gets another to help guard 
the Stone. Maybe it was "Buy one, get one free."
Hexing the broomstick. Huh. Not impressed. Classic demonstration of a 
conflict of goals. Ignore Potter - just get the damn Stone. Why's he 
farting around playing silly buggers  with an 11 year old? A case of 
the 6 P's needing to be read, learned and inwardly digested through 
clenched bowels, IMO. And anyway, can't he do better than 
broom-nobbling? He's supposed to be an expert on Dark Arts, isn't he? 
So why not use 'em?

But nothing demonstrates his ineptness more  than the final showdown. 
Dear, oh dear. What a cock-up. Look, he's supposed to be a wizard. So 
why not act like one. Wizards use magic, so why didn't Quirrell? What's 
it got in it's pockets? Cheated, it did my Precious - cobblers; no need 
for this undignified grappling, grabbing nonsense, all it needed was 
Accio Stone! or Imperio! or even Petrificus Totalus! and Voldy wanders 
on his way rejoicing. 3/10. Must do better.

I've no real objection to the Good Guys winning,  but I do get restive 
when the baddies are total incompetents. Unfortunately there's evidence 
that Quirrell isn't the only one facing young Potter.

There's Mafoy Jnr.

Pretty much a stereotype common in school-based tales, Draco's the 
snotty, sly, selfish, supercilious, spoiled sneak, with his own little 
gang of none-too-bright followers, an untrustworthy father and destined 
to end each episode gnashing his molars in frustration - though this 
being HP, with a traditional end of book wind-down on the Hogwarts 
Express, it's usually a case of him and his chums chewing British Rail 
carpet instead. Supposedly a prime example of the pureblood superiority 
conceit centred on Slytherin House, he's more petty irritant than 
potential nemesis. Salazar must be turning in his crypt.

We've  now read our way through five years of Harry's academic career. 
So tell me, how many times has young Malfoy managed to hit Harry with a 
spell? Twice that I can find, first in a 'formal' duel and second time 
with a trip jinx at the rout of the DA. Both times sanctioned by 
authority. If this is the best that a nasty Slytherin DE off-spring can 
manage, then it's a poor show, that's all I can say.

In fact, for all his gritted teeth animosity and muttered threats, 
Malfoy and his little clique have been disappointingly inactive on the 
spell-throwing front. Hermione's incisors, a leg-locker for Neville - 
very tame stuff. All mouth and no trousers, that's our Draco. Supposed 
to be one of the brightest student in the year, too - or so we might 
assume from his exchange with Lucius in the evil artifact emporium in 
CoS. Surely he knows some nasty magic he can wreak on the Trio?

It  all seems very odd, there's a role-reversal whatsit in evidence. 
Hermione, supposedly the voice of sanity and reason in the student 
body, breaks more rules than Draco would dream of doing. No plots, 
schemes, thefts, lies or persistent rule breaking from the House of ill 
repute, it's all coming from those on the side of the angels. Malfoy is 
mostly redundant, all the Slytherins are, even though they are mightily 
pissed off at how Harry always seems to land on his feet. So when're 
they, and specifically Draco, going to do something about it? Where's 
the cunning that Slytherin is renowned for? Break a few rules - and 
break a few heads too, while you're at it. Otherwise it'll make one 
wonder just what Malfoy and Slytherin are there for.

Kneasy




From pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 22 18:24:37 2005
From: pt4ever at pt4ever.yahoo.invalid (JoAnna Wahlund)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:24:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Elanor Mary
In-Reply-To: <csgmi1+t4q3@...>
Message-ID: <20050122182437.18516.qmail@...>

Thank you so much, Ginger - that's beautiful.  I'm going to print it out and put it in
Elanor's baby book!

--- quigonginger <quigonginger at ...> wrote:

> 
> Joanna, I saw the announcement in the Forum and grinned like a maniac 
> for several hours after.  I figured you'd want to make the big 
> announcement, so I used the time to compose a poem in your honour.  I 
> can now fit the baby's name into it.  Hope you like it. 
> 
> 
> 
> Elanor Mary
> 
> The sky was grey, the wind did blow.
> The temp was 97 below.
> The frigid folks of Fargo froze
> With frostbite in their cheeks and nose.
> 
> The snow and cold did chill our bones.
> Opinions ranged from shrieks to moans.
> In all of this a girl was arrived,
> As if to say "We have survived!"
> 
> A glow of life, a new beginning,
> A shout to nature: "We are winning!"
> A life came to a barren land
> And love to warm us, heart and hand.
> 
> A family, once two, now three.
> A newborn girl for all to see.
> A family has taken form
> With love to last the darkest storm.
> 
> A toast to Elly, and to you.
> (And Colin, let's give him his due!)
> May blue skies light your life ahead.
> May only tears of joy you shed.
> 
> May she grow wise and strong and good
> And and learn the lessons that she should.
> May you enjoy this gift so sweet
> (And, should you choose, the gift repeat).
> 
> May you have patience, and be kind
> On those occasions she won't mind.
> May you be firm, but loving too,
> When teaching what she ought to do.
> 
> In just a blink you'll find her grown
> And starting out life on her own.
> May she grow up as she did start:
> A shining light to warm your heart.
> 
> With deepest congratulations, Ginger
> 
> 
> 
> 


=====
~JoAnna~ 

Visit the baby's website for pictures and updates!  
http://www.geocities.com/j_wahlund





		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 




From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 23 18:03:07 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:03:07 +0000
Subject: Best of Enemies. pt. 3.
Message-ID: <0922D0F4-6D69-11D9-ADB3-000A9577CB94@...>

Right. Who's next?
Ah, yes.
But is it a 'who' or an 'it'?
Diary!Tom.

Very definitely anti-Harry, or at least it is once it realises that the 
Pestiferous Potter is at hand and can be got at. Sorting this one out 
has been a bit of a problem for fandom, too many unknowns and 
unanswered questions proliferate like ants at a picnic. Still, let's 
have a look, accepting that with all those lacunae we're reduced to the 
condition of WYSIWYG.

Firstly, just to make the position clear, IMO Diary!Tom is entirely 
separate from Voldy. Harry's scar doesn't react to the Diary or to the 
corporate Tom. We are also drawn to the conclusion that D!T had never 
heard of young Potter until Ginny enlightened him, but once the dog 
sees the rabbit whatever the construct was intended to do is put in 
abeyance while Tom investigates Harry. And investigate is the right 
word - D!T wants to know about Harry, to find out what's special about 
him and it's not until he decides that there's nothing particularly 
special there that he decides it's party time - hide and seek with 
Harry as 'it'.

Mind you, impressive though the Basilisk is, I'm not so sure about Tom. 
Either he exhibits a breath-taking ability to plan, foresee events and 
take the appropriate action, or he's lucky verging on the miraculous. 
Consider: he controls Ginny. Yet Ginny throws the Diary away in a 
disused toilet that just happens to be the one where the informational 
ghost of Tom's previous victim lurks and where the Trio just happen to 
be brewing a forbidden potion in complete secrecy. And no, Ginny wasn't 
following instructions, according to Tom she became suspicious and was 
disposing of it. Fortunate, or what? But then of course, once free of 
its effects she becomes unsuspicious and steals it back from Harry thus 
enabling her to become the innocent maiden in dire straits that needs 
rescuing.

Fine. OK. Needs must when the plot drives; most tales would get nowhere 
without a touch of serendipitous coincidence. I'll just swallow my 
incredulity and press on. We'll also pass over the flash-back episode 
where Tom stitches up Hagrid, except - did you notice? It might be 
directorial incompetence, but in the film version Tom was not wearing a 
Slytherin badge on his robe - it looked like Gryffindor to me. Isn't 
that interesting?

To the climax. Like all would-be Evil Overlords Tom has yet to learn 
that posturing, preening, bragging and striking poses are 
counter-productive and always premature. Throughout the books it's a 
dead give-away that whenever a character launches into paeans of self 
praise a deus-ex-machina will turn up, he'll fall flat on his face and 
end up spitting teeth. So it proves this time. Though I've never quite 
figured out why Ginny doesn't die too. If Tom turns up his toes because 
his life-force is destroyed by the deadly dentition being thrust into 
the Diary and the life force concerned has been extracted from 
Ginny....hmm. There is only the one life shared between them, isn't 
there? And if that life is killed by injecting poison....? Mind you, 
before that puzzling denoument, Tom's cause isn't helped by a sudden 
attack of Quirrellitis - he forgets he's a wizard. Stands there with 
Harry's wand in his sweaty mitt and it might as well be a 
back-scratcher for all the use he makes of it.
He'll get no sympathy from me.
Plonker.

There was somebody else associated with that Diary, and guess what? 
This one has all the potential to be a dyed-in-the-wool, 24 carat, 
deviously evil bastard of the first water.
Splendid!
A big hand please for Lucius Malfoy!

If you're of an age (or watch old films on late night TV) you might 
recall a character actor from the 30s, 40s and 50s who  played 
wonderfully nasty but suave villains - George Sanders. That's who came 
to mind when I read Lucius in the books. Ah, if only. Because the key 
word in the preceding paragraph is 'potentially' - there are some 
niggling worries that Lucius may not be as downright rotten as I for 
one would like him to be.

Voldy calls him 'slippery' - yes, yes, sounds promising, but DD goes 
remarkably easy on him after he was the proximate cause of all the 
mayhem in CoS. That's worrying. Just a mild warning as to future 
behaviour. There's a feeling that there's more going on than appears on 
the surface. Now I'm not a vindictive type, but if I'd been in DD's 
place I'dve had him down the  dungeons, hanging from chains while a 
cockatrice speculatively eyed his goolies before the study door had 
swung shut.

Then there's Dobby.
Unless the author is hiding a massive plot twist (or cheating), that 
little toe-rag does what Malfoy tells him to do. Yes, I know Kreacher 
managed to 'misinterpret' instructions from Sirius, but they were 
issued in hot blood and only once. Malfoy is cold and calculating, has 
been Dobby's master for years yet Dobby zips back and forth between 
Malfoy Towers, Privet Drive and Hogwarts like he's on elastic. And 
although his object is to warn Harry of a dastardly plot, he very 
carefully spills only a very few of the beans. And besides, I don't 
like him.

Unless.
Malfoy is not interested in Harry at all - or not directly. Let Potter 
duke it out with Voldy; what's that to Lucius, particularly as Voldy  
hasn't been impressive on the Potter front and could well lose? What if 
Lucius's goals are more mundane than Voldy's but none-the-less 
eminently desirable and achievable? Top dog after the dust has settled 
perhaps - and best advanced by playing both ends against  the middle. 
In those circumstances  he would want Harry out of the way while he 
prised DD out of the Headmaster slot and disgraced the name of Weasley 
in the Ministry. Harry would be a complication he could well do 
without. But Harry  was there, did interfere, and more or less 
single-handedly scotched the whole scheme when no-one else seemed 
capable of doing so. Curses! Foiled!
Hmm. Entertaining sub-plot.
And he's still around to try again. He's got no animosity of course, 
bet he'd even subscribe to a statue, or even better, a memorial to 
Harry - once he's Minister.

What would be really depressing would be the revelation that Malfoy has 
been DD's agent all along.  Or that he sees the light, reforms and 
joins the Band of Hope. Please, no - not that. Let  the combination of 
DE, Slytherin, cunning and ambition on the label actually mean that 
there's somebody irredeemably nasty in there.

Kneasy




From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 23 19:50:08 2005
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:50:08 -0000
Subject: Best of Enemies all three parts
In-Reply-To: <0922D0F4-6D69-11D9-ADB3-000A9577CB94@...>
Message-ID: <ct0v5g+bfa8@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith (Kneasy) wrote
in

Kneasy wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/951 thru 954:

<< 5 so-called anti-Harry characters appear in book 1 >> 

Vernon, Petunia, Dudley, Draco, Quirrell, Lord Voldemort...I count 6. 

<<  And if it isn't credible, then once again all might not be what it
seems in the Potterverse of sneaky old Jo. >>

And Jo MIGHT not be AS sneaky as some fans give her credit for.

<< Hexing the broomstick. Huh. Not impressed. Classic demonstration of
a conflict of goals. Ignore Potter - just get the damn Stone. Why's he
farting around playing silly buggers with an 11 year old? >>

Presumably that was LV's doing; he, on the back of Q's head, saw
Potter and had a reflex response of being determined to smash him like
a bug.

<< A case of the 6 P's needing to be read, learned >>

What are the 6 P's?

<< And anyway, can't he do better than broom-nobbling? He's supposed
to be an expert on Dark Arts, isn't he? So why not use 'em? >>

He (if you mean Q) is supposed to be an expert on DEFENSE Against the
Dark Arts. And, as Defense against Dark Creatures appears to be just
as much of the curriculum as Defense against Dark Arts, maybe he was
hired solely for his skills with creaturess.

Btw, what makes a creature a Dark Creature? Dragons are bloody
dangerous but apparently not Dark.. Grindylows are considered Dark but
can be kept as pets by the mer-people. Are acromantulae Dark?
Basilisks -- FB says they were invented by Herpo the Dark? 

<< No plots, schemes, thefts, lies or persistent rule breaking from
the House of ill repute >>

Draco *did* manage to dress up as a Dementor and wander onto the
Quidditch pitch. It wasn't a very *clever* plot (WHY did he think
Harry would pass out at the sight of a fake Dementor just because he
passed out at the psychological effect of a real Dementor? HOW did he
plan to get away afterwards?)) but it was a plot.

<< in the film version Tom was not wearing a Slytherin badge on his
robe - it looked like Gryffindor to me. >>

IIRC it looked like Hogwarts to me -- as if the school had introduced
putting House badges on students since his time. I was annoyed but
someone led me to a publicity still of the actor in Tom costume, and
in that non-grayed-out picture it looked like green trim on his
uniform. But the accompanying publicity still of Myrtle STILL didn't
make the color of her uniform clear. Myrtle is such a vindictive,
nasty, and sneaky ghost that I think she should have been a Slytherin
in life, but she also was Muggle-born, which Salazar Slytherin had not
wanted in his House. I imagine that a Muggle-born in Slytherin House
would have even more misery than the average adolescent...

<< Like all would-be Evil Overlords Tom has yet to learn that
posturing, preening, bragging and striking poses are counter-
productive and always premature. Throughout the books it's a dead
give-away that whenever a character launches into paeans of self
praise a deus-ex-machina will turn up, he'll fall flat on his face 
and end up spitting teeth. >>

Diary!Tom had an excuse LV does not have -- he is only 16 years old.

<< Though I've never quite figured out why Ginny doesn't die too. 
If Tom turns up his toes because his life-force is destroyed by the
deadly dentition being thrust into the Diary and the life force
concerned has been extracted from Ginny.... >>

I thought Tom died because the deadly dentition crashed the computer
(the spell in the diary) that was running him as software until he got
a body (he was getting a body from Ginny's life-force).

<< There was somebody else associated with that Diary, and guess what?
This one has all the potential to be a dyed-in-the-wool, 24 carat,
deviously evil bastard of the first water.
Splendid!
A big hand please for Lucius Malfoy!

If you're of an age (or watch old films on late night TV) you might
recall a character actor from the 30s, 40s and 50s who played
wonderfully nasty but suave villains - George Sanders. That's who came
to mind when I read Lucius in the books. >>

I quote this part only to applaud it.

<< Ah, if only. Because the keyword in the preceding paragraph is
'potentially' - there are some niggling worries that Lucius may not be
as downright rotten as I for one would like him to be. Voldy calls him
'slippery' - yes, yes, sounds promising, but DD goes remarkably easy
on him after he was the proximate cause of all the mayhem in CoS.
That's worrying. Just a mild warning as to future behaviour. There's a
feeling that there's more going on than appears on the surface. Now
I'm not a vindictive type, but if I'd been in DD's place I'd [ha]ve
had him down the dungeons, hanging from chains while a cockatrice
speculatively eyed his goolies before the study door had swung shut.>>

Oh, surely Lucius Malfoy is utterly evil and incapable of repentance.
Surely Dumbledore only 'went easy' on him because that (removal from
the Board of Governors) was all the punishment that DD had the power
to administer to him. Because Lucius was so powerful in wizarding
society -- surely he never did anything so blunt as to threaten his
fellow Governors that he would curse their families; surely a mixture
of perjured witness testimony and *subtle* hints of loss of immunity
for certain past crimes or loss of a preference essential to their
career would suffice. Surely Lucius's power didn't depend only on such
slender reeds as bribed civil servants and friendly Fudge; surely
putting him in Azkaban even when he was caught in the act in the MoM
raid required a careful lining up of ducks in a row to prevent
consequences of a collapse of the wizarding stock market or street
riots by trained thug-wizards.

<< Unless.
Malfoy is not interested in Harry at all - or not directly. Let Potter
duke it out with Voldy; what's that to Lucius, particularly as Voldy
hasn't been impressive on the Potter front and could well lose? What
if Lucius's goals are more mundane than Voldy's but none-the-less
eminently desirable and achievable? Top dog after the dust has settled
perhaps - and best advanced by playing both ends against the middle.>>

Well, *natch*.

I have this vague theory that Lucius doesn't know that Voldie knows
that Lucius plans to betray and vanquish(*) Voldie when the time
arrives that Voldie seems more of a liability than an asset to
Lucius's ambitions. (To me, Lucius doesn't mind being the power behind
LV's throne but does mind e.g. LV destroying the economy that keeps
him rich.) 
(*) If Lucius believes the Prophecy, he will want to keep Harry alive
under his control for that reason.

But Voldie does know; he keeps Lucius around for the time being
because Lucius is useful AND Voldie actually feels a bit of affection
to him (possibly because of my other theory that TMR was Lucius's
godfather, possibly because working-class orphan TMR never got over
being impressed by toffs) but plans to destroy Lucius just before
Lucius turns against him.

I'm not sure which one will win, but I enjoy imagining the utter
*surprise* of whichever one loses. "But, but, but -- *I* was supposed
to betray *you*"






From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 23 23:46:43 2005
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:46:43 -0000
Subject: Silly thought
Message-ID: <ct1d13+8qrq@...>


Main list just reminded me that JKR's mother's personal name was Anne,
and it suddenly occured to me that Anne named her daughters JoANNE and
DiANNE. (okay, Diane with one E as sop to normality).






From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 24 11:43:06 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:43:06 -0000
Subject: Best of Enemies all three parts
In-Reply-To: <ct0v5g+bfa8@...>
Message-ID: <ct2n0a+ut17@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" <catlady at w...> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith (Kneasy) wrote
> in
> 
> << 5 so-called anti-Harry characters appear in book 1 >> 
> 
> Vernon, Petunia, Dudley, Draco, Quirrell, Lord Voldemort...I count 6. 
>

Ah, lists. We each have our preferences. "Round up the usual suspects!"
we say, but we find that they're not always the same.
What is interesting is the name that we've both omitted from our lists...
 
> <<  And if it isn't credible, then once again all might not be what it
> seems in the Potterverse of sneaky old Jo. >>
> 
> And Jo MIGHT not be AS sneaky as some fans give her credit for.
>

True.
But I remain in a state of (possibly) unjustified optimism. 

> << Hexing the broomstick. Huh. Not impressed. Classic demonstration of
> a conflict of goals. Ignore Potter - just get the damn Stone. Why's he
> farting around playing silly buggers with an 11 year old? >>
> 
> Presumably that was LV's doing; he, on the back of Q's head, saw
> Potter and had a reflex response of being determined to smash him like
> a bug.
> 

Don't think so. No scar pain - and that's more or less a given when Voldy
turns his thoughts Potterwards.

Now I'll admit that Quirrell's own words could lead one to think that Voldy
is constantly directing his actions and monitoring what's going on "He is
with me wherever I go" but that need not predicate that the boss is
always active. Indeed, at the climax Quirrell expresses concern that
Voldy wants to get involved "Master, you are not strong enough!"
Could be that Voldy spends much of  his time in a quiescent stand-by
mode saving what little strength he has.

> 
> << And anyway, can't he do better than broom-nobbling? He's supposed
> to be an expert on Dark Arts, isn't he? So why not use 'em? >>
> 
> He (if you mean Q) is supposed to be an expert on DEFENSE Against the
> Dark Arts. And, as Defense against Dark Creatures appears to be just
> as much of the curriculum as Defense against Dark Arts, maybe he was
> hired solely for his skills with creaturess.
> 

I doubt it - unless he did a correspondence course from the Dolly 
Umbridge DADA Academy "Learn in your own time - anywhere! Just send 
50 Gal. and by return owl you will receive a pack that will enable you to 
defeat DEs! You will be presented with a tasteful framed certificate after 
passing the multiple-choice final exam paper!" 

Whatever the  Dark Arts and Dark Creatures are (and I agree
that the text is distressingly silent on the definitions) I'd  be amazed if
anyone could become sufficiently knowledgeable to teach the subject
without having practiced with the real thing. And if you want to teach
others how to defend themselves - well, somebody  has to produce the 
spells that they must learn to counter. Witness Crouch!Moody and the
need to form the DA. 

> 
> << Though I've never quite figured out why Ginny doesn't die too. 
> If Tom turns up his toes because his life-force is destroyed by the
> deadly dentition being thrust into the Diary and the life force
> concerned has been extracted from Ginny.... >>
> 
> I thought Tom died because the deadly dentition crashed the computer
> (the spell in the diary) that was running him as software until he got
> a body (he was getting a body from Ginny's life-force).
>

We could discuss this one until  the cows come home  and reach no
conclusion. To my way of thinking you need magic to break a spell (what
you call the software). Is Basilisk poison magical? I'd have thought not, it's
just a run-of-the-mill curdle your blood, fry your nervous system, death-
dealing venom. May be wrong of course. But it's my understanding that
according to the conventions of role-playing games a magical poison
is considered as a bit underhand, sharp practice. Perhaps Jo doesn't play
games.
 
> 
> Oh, surely Lucius Malfoy is utterly evil and incapable of repentance.
> Surely Dumbledore only 'went easy' on him because that (removal from
> the Board of Governors) was all the punishment that DD had the power
> to administer to him. Because Lucius was so powerful in wizarding
> society -- surely he never did anything so blunt as to threaten his
> fellow Governors that he would curse their families; surely a mixture
> of perjured witness testimony and *subtle* hints of loss of immunity
> for certain past crimes or loss of a preference essential to their
> career would suffice. Surely Lucius's power didn't depend only on such
> slender reeds as bribed civil servants and friendly Fudge; surely
> putting him in Azkaban even when he was caught in the act in the MoM
> raid required a careful lining up of ducks in a row to prevent
> consequences of a collapse of the wizarding stock market or street
> riots by trained thug-wizards.

Wouldn't have mattered if I'd been in the chair.
Due process and all that stuff isn't nearly as satisfying as death, destruction,
sowing his land with salt and selling his children into slavery.
But I'm totally opposed to unnecessary violence.

> 
> I have this vague theory that Lucius doesn't know that Voldie knows
> that Lucius plans to betray and vanquish(*) Voldie when the time
> arrives that Voldie seems more of a liability than an asset to
> Lucius's ambitions. (To me, Lucius doesn't mind being the power behind
> LV's throne but does mind e.g. LV destroying the economy that keeps
> him rich.) 
> (*) If Lucius believes the Prophecy, he will want to keep Harry alive
> under his control for that reason.
> 
> But Voldie does know; he keeps Lucius around for the time being
> because Lucius is useful AND Voldie actually feels a bit of affection
> to him (possibly because of my other theory that TMR was Lucius's
> godfather, possibly because working-class orphan TMR never got over
> being impressed by toffs) but plans to destroy Lucius just before
> Lucius turns against him.
> 
> I'm not sure which one will win, but I enjoy imagining the utter
> *surprise* of whichever one loses. "But, but, but -- *I* was supposed
> to betray *you*"

That's one scenario.
But it all depends on Voldy remaining mortal for Lucius to end up on
top. Is Voldy mortal? He has a mind/spirit that keeps bouncing back
and a body  that was constructed by spell-work. That'll be a tough nut
for Lucius to crack - unless he joins DD. Which is what I (and presumably
you) don't want.

OTOH Voldy probably considers all his henchwizards as disposable,
useful for the moment, but basically replaceable. Lucius is on very thin
ice. A wrong word, look, action or even thought - and zap! 
Oh, look at the pretty green lights!








From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 24 18:03:42 2005
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:03:42 -0000
Subject: Best of Enemies all three parts
In-Reply-To: <ct2n0a+ut17@...>
Message-ID: <ct3d9u+dnaq@...>


Kneasy:
> > << 5 so-called anti-Harry characters appear in book 1 >> 

Catlady:
> > Vernon, Petunia, Dudley, Draco, Quirrell, Lord Voldemort...I 
count 6. 
> >
Kneasy: 
> Ah, lists. We each have our preferences. "Round up the usual 
suspects!" we say, but we find that they're not always the same.
> What is interesting is the name that we've both omitted from 
our lists...

Pippin:
Five letters, sounds like 'nape' -- 

Kneasy:
> > << Hexing the broomstick. Huh. Not impressed. Classic 
demonstration of a conflict of goals. Ignore Potter - just get the 
damn Stone. Why's he farting around playing silly buggers with 
an 11 year old? >>

Pippin:
Quirrell explained that; he thought Harry might have seen him on 
the way to suss out  the Stone. 

"You're too nosy to live, Potter. Scurrying around the school on 
Halloween like that, for all I knew you'd seen me coming to look 
at what was guarding the Stone." PS/SS ch 17

The interesting thing is whether Snape, fearing the same, 
deliberately allowed Harry to know he'd been in the third floor 
corridor as well, so that Harry and his friends would stalk Snape, 
not Quirrell.

Kneasy: 
> > << And anyway, can't he do better than broom-nobbling? He's 
supposed to be an expert on Dark Arts, isn't he? So why not use 
'em? >>

Pippin:
Erm, because if he's found out, he'll be sent to Azkaban and that 
will make it difficult to get at the Stone. The attack has to look 
accidental, but it seems that there are so many protections on 
the students at Hogwarts that it's difficult.

 This must have looked like a splendid opportunity. First year, 
Muggle-raised, loses control of his broom and falls off, such a 
tragedy. Brooms *are* dangerous, remember Neville's never 
been allowed on one, and Firsties aren't usually allowed 
to play Quidditch at all. No one but Snape seems to suspect that 
Harry's difficulties are the result of anything but inexperience. 

Kneasy:
 Is Basilisk poison magical? I'd have thought not, it's
 just a run-of-the-mill curdle your blood, fry your nervous system, 
death- dealing venom. May be wrong of course. But it's my 
understanding that according to the conventions of role-playing 
games a magical poison is considered as a bit underhand, 
sharp practice. Perhaps Jo doesn't play games.

Pippin:
Arthur needs a magical remedy to counter the venom of the 
snake that bit him in OOP,  and surgical stitches won't close the 
wound, so I'm afraid, yes, the basilisk's poison is magical, too.

Kneasy:
> > 
> > I have this vague theory that Lucius doesn't know that Voldie 
knows that Lucius plans to betray and vanquish(*) Voldie when 
the time arrives that Voldie seems more of a liability than an 
asset to Lucius's ambitions. (To me, Lucius doesn't mind being 
the power behind LV's throne but does mind e.g. LV destroying 
the economy that keeps him rich.) 
> > (*) If Lucius believes the Prophecy, he will want to keep Harry 
alive under his control for that reason.

Pippin

Ditto for ESE!Lupin, except that Lupin *does* want to destroy the 
economy of the wizarding world that's keeping him poor, on the 
other hand he doesn't get the personal kick out of Death Eating 
that Lucius does. But that's just my opinion.

Pippin






From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Mon Jan 24 19:05:11 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:05:11 -0000
Subject: Best of Enemies all three parts
In-Reply-To: <ct3d9u+dnaq@...>
Message-ID: <ct3gt7+h49n@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> 
> Kneasy:
>  Is Basilisk poison magical? I'd have thought not, it's
>  just a run-of-the-mill curdle your blood, fry your nervous system, 
> death- dealing venom. May be wrong of course. But it's my 
> understanding that according to the conventions of role-playing 
> games a magical poison is considered as a bit underhand, 
> sharp practice. Perhaps Jo doesn't play games.
> 
> Pippin:
> Arthur needs a magical remedy to counter the venom of the 
> snake that bit him in OOP,  and surgical stitches won't close the 
> wound, so I'm afraid, yes, the basilisk's poison is magical, too.
>

It was thought to be "unusual", yes.  The wound kept re-opening -
and they were looking for an "antidote" which sounds fairly standard 
when envenomation takes place, even amongst Muggles.

You may recall a discussion elsewhere - the best fit for Nagini
was Lachesis muta muta - the Bushmaster - and the effects of its
bite pretty much match Arthur's wound, tissue damage, slow
healing and bleeding abnormalities.

Nice! The sort of stuff I used to read with horror in those medical 
handbooks you buy before you go somewhere hot, nasty and days
from the nearest fridge. Dear, oh dear. The daft things I've done in
my life. Repeatedly. Must be mad.
Why bother with magical fantasy when you can experience the real 
thing?

'Scuse me, back to the grindstone - there's at least another 2 parts
still to pound out on this BoE series of posts yet.

Kneasy
  







From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Thu Jan 27 16:16:19 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 16:16:19 +0000
Subject: Best of Enemies. pt. 4.
Message-ID: <C73F7493-707E-11D9-8E50-000A9577CB94@...>

"Next!"
And who is this shuffling to front and centre?
Of course! Barty Crouch the younger!

A more developed villain than Quirrell (unlike who he interacts with 
Harry throughout the relevant book) and he successfully conceals his 
true identity and goals until the final chapters. Nevertheless I can't 
help shifting in my seat when considering him in detail.

His apprehension and sentencing sets up the possibility of  yet another 
sub-plot (Crouch Snr brought down, being presented with a choice of two 
invidious alternatives - nepotism or being tarred as a fanatical 
hanging judge lacking compassion even for his own son, thus opening the 
way for a more 'flexible' Minister - Fudge - possibly obligated to and  
compromised by the DEs, since they deliberately informed on BCJnr with 
this in mind). Tasty.

All well and good. No problem.
No problem with the Crouch!Moody character either, not as such.
It's the background detail that bothers me. It's just a bit too, too, I 
  don't know, too slick for comfort. The actions and explication seem 
reasonable on the surface, but on reflection I can't see them actually 
working, if you know what I mean. The 'real life' bits and pieces that 
you know *must* have happened - yet if they did they'd invalidate the 
tale as told.

His escape from Azkaban - mmph; just possible, I suppose. But the more 
I think about, the more the questions  surface.
And Crouch Snr  keeping a zonked out officially dead DE in the 
woodshed, the attic or wherever. What on earth was he going to  do with 
him? Eventually transfigure him into a draught excluder, perhaps? And 
if Jnr was constantly enveloped in an Invisibility Cloak, how the hell 
did Barty Snr ever know where he was?  By blasting Leg-locker spells 
around the kitchen until something fell over? Yeah, sure.

Jnr at the QWC - again, lots of quibbles and questions about that too,  
though many (but not all) could be resolved by postulating that Bagman 
was cognisant of the situation and was covertly involved in much that 
happened there.

Lots of  fans are unhappy that Archduffer!DD didn't  spot Crouch!Moody 
as a ringer for an entire school year. Old friends, common experiences 
and memories - "'ere, Ally, remember that time at Coven 80 to 130, when 
you, me and them two Veelas...." - no way could Barty cover up for that 
long. Of course not. DD knew. The Portkey Cup may have caught him on 
the hop, nothing else did IMO.

You may consider all this to be nit-picking. Possibly. Perhaps I want 
perfection in plotting and in backstory - unreasonable expectations, 
perhaps. For all that Barty Jnr is one of the better baddies in the 
series. He has a specific goal (get Potter into  Voldy's clutches) and 
he works towards it in a way that is nicely obscured by the authors 
sleight of hand. Not his fault that Voldy cocks it up. He's done his 
part.

May have served another function too; I'm of the opinion that the 
Unforgivables classes served a double plot purpose. Not only did  they 
allow Harry to develop a resistance to Imperio, they also demonstrated 
who was particularly vulnerable to them. Hello Ron. Due to have a nasty 
turn, are you?


Time to consider the chief cur, vicious villain, boss baddy, malign 
monster, frightful fiend and foul foe of our hero and all 
right-thinking wizards and witches, that utter vileness - Voldemort!
Except that a job evaluation might opine that it's time he pulled his 
socks up and matched his billing.

Can't be easy constructing a character like Voldy. Damn near immortal, 
so nasty that folk are afraid to mention his name, the Potterverse's 
No. 2 seed in the magical rankings, yet somehow some little squit has 
to knock him off his perch without it  seeming too contrived. There is 
a way of course - don't use magic. But that may (or may not) be in the 
future; the recent past is a very different kettle of fish.

Four times this maleficent mastermind has faced young Potter and four 
times he's come off worst. Mind you, it's not Harry that beats him, 
it's always something extraneous, unforeseen, unexpected. Old magic, a 
protective charm, wand conflict, DD riding to  the rescue. None of them 
conscious, deliberate tactics from Harry. No wonder Voldy is pissed 
off. It looks bad when the same name keeps turning up at the top of his 
"To Do" list; gives the likes of Lucius cause to wonder if maybe 
Voldy's losing his grip.

Best  advice: ignore Potter, he's unlikely to bother you if you don't 
bother him. Ignore the Prophecy. Sort out the immortality bit - that'd 
be a winner, however you look at it. Stick to what you do best, you 
know - torture, fear, killing the odd incompetent DE. You're supposed 
to be intelligent, now's the time to prove it. Don't chew the carpet 
when things go wrong, it's counter-productive. And for God's sake keep 
Bella on a tight leash, save her for salutary punishments, down the DE 
Clubhouse as top of the bill for the evening's entertainment:
"So - you allowed Weasley to escape, did you? For that - 3 hours with 
Bella!"
(For those interested, Bella is in the next (?last) in the series.)

I was a bit disappointed when it turned out that his aim was to rule 
the world. Oh dear. That old thing again. Think about it. And remember 
to include the restraints already imposed by the author. Can't  help 
doing so, myself. Probably my scientific training kicking in - 
extrapolating from the situation as presented using the information 
provided.

Any 'reign of terror' will have to be done on a one-to-one basis, 
"Please take a ticket and wait until your number is called." That's the 
problem with wand-waving and Imperio! spells, it won't work on a bloke 
walking his dog four streets away when the person you're aiming at is 
next door polishing his broom. No mass conversions, no job-lot 
enchantments, you've got to look 'em in the eyes. Other fantasy tales 
have neatly side-stepped the problem by inventing some coveted object, 
a Macguffin that  holds sway over entire populations - the Truss of 
Doom or the Monopoly Set of Destiny ("I throw the dice and the place my 
boot lands will be expunged from the face of the Earth! Ha! Ha! Ha! 
Them 'as dies'll be the lucky ones!").

Even with a massive recruiting drive ("Bring in 5 new members and get a 
free toad!") it'll be a few hundred years before any DEs get round to 
your neighbourhood. By then of course, they'll have had to start all 
over again as spells wear off, to say nothing of the new generations, 
of both enforcers and victims.

And just what is he intending to do with all these millions once he's 
got them in durance vile? Turn 'em into slaves? Sounds good, that  - 
but there's one small snag. Slaving at doing what? If they're *all* 
slaves there's no-one to buy what they produce - no wages, no money, no 
consumers thirsting for the latest Madam Malkin creation. Slavery has 
always been perpetrated and justified (erroneously) in terms of 
economics, otherwise it's a burden, a drain on your time and resources.

Kill 'em all perhaps? Yeah, sure. With a world population of 
9,000,000,000 and increasing every year by 80,000,000, killing 'em all 
individually or in small groups will take a bit of time, even if the 
DEs are on bonus rates.  He'll *need* to be immortal - and even then 
he'll never finish.

Start wars by getting  at politicians or military leaders? Who'd notice 
the difference? Most of 'em don't  seem to be in touch with reality 
anyway. And there's not much point in being the sole survivor, capering 
with joy in a radio-active, poison ridden landscape.

Nope; Ming the Merciless he ain't. He's a fairly localised pest. And 
it's better that way, adds credibility too. Keep it small, keep it 
controllable, always have somebody you can characterise as an enemy. It 
provides a purpose to life, staves off boredom - a real danger if you 
plan on being immortal. A boy needs some hobbies. And just for now his 
hobby is Harry.

But only by default.
If it wasn't for that damn Prophecy none of this would have happened. 
He'd have been sitting pretty long since. The WW was crumbling, the 
Order was on it's last legs, he was winning. And then that dozy old bat 
turns Delphic, somebody overhears and before you  know it a minor 
distraction becomes a major disaster. He's never caught up since. All 
that remains is personal vindictiveness and an obsession with a few 
ambiguous utterances that will probably only make some sort of sense in 
retrospect anyway.

Will he have another chance of making good?
Of course!
But winning?
Nah. But he might take Harry and DD down with him.
Call it a draw.

Kneasy





From boyd.t.smythe at boyd_smythe.yahoo.invalid  Fri Jan 28 17:42:51 2005
From: boyd.t.smythe at boyd_smythe.yahoo.invalid (Smythe, Boyd T {FLNA})
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:42:51 -0600
Subject: Best of Enemies. pt. 4.
Message-ID: <FDCCEEC6AAC8DD4AA2DD0C28E41D2832489F1C@...>

Kneasy, another wonderfully soul-staining take on the "villains" in the
Potterverse.

Is anybody else out there actually rooting for Lord Thingy to finally look
the part in HBP? Kill a few key adults (DD, please!) and a couple of
students, maybe even a treacherous DE for fun? And all in a *very* foul way.
And, most importantly, that nothing good happens to offset those
deaths--yet.

Otherwise, we're not talking about good triumphing over evil.

Of course, the other option is that LV represents something larger, such as
the recurring baddie or the world of magic, as proposed by others. Running
out of time on those predictions, though....

--Boyd



From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 29 11:07:39 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:07:39 -0000
Subject: Best of Enemies. pt. 4.
In-Reply-To: <FDCCEEC6AAC8DD4AA2DD0C28E41D2832489F1C@...>
Message-ID: <ctfqpr+iufj@...>


--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Smythe, Boyd T {FLNA}" <boyd.t.smythe at f...> 
wrote:
> Kneasy, another wonderfully soul-staining take on the "villains" in the
> Potterverse.
> 
> Is anybody else out there actually rooting for Lord Thingy to finally look
> the part in HBP? Kill a few key adults (DD, please!) and a couple of
> students, maybe even a treacherous DE for fun? And all in a *very* foul way.
> And, most importantly, that nothing good happens to offset those
> deaths--yet.
> 
> Otherwise, we're not talking about good triumphing over evil.
> 
> Of course, the other option is that LV represents something larger, such as
> the recurring baddie or the world of magic, as proposed by others. Running
> out of time on those predictions, though....
> 
> --Boyd


Ta muchly. Glad you're getting something out of them.

I must say it's a pleasure to be able to put together a series of posts without
having too spend too much time fire-fighting responses. Though they'll 
probably be valid and are usually interesting they are a bit distracting when
one's in the process of composing  a lengthy piece on somebody/something
else. One of the joys of a site with a smaller membership most of whom have
already posted long and hard on almost everything.

Mmm. Voldy rampant. Eviscerations and fried eyeballs; rictus-ridden cadavers
strewn tastefully over a smoking, blasted landscape - and over all a louring
sky.  Nice thought - and it's well past time that he matches his reputation.

Voldy as recurring evil - well, we both subscribe to Possession Theory in one
form or another, which does allow (or even predicate) the evil in HP as a force,
an entity in and of itself. Many writers would be unable to resist the temptation
of a metaphorical theme such as that. Indeed, why should they? 
Does it stretch back to Salazar or even further? And if so, who or what is DD?

Pointers in July perhaps, but definite answers wait until book 7 is my bet.

Kneasy







From ewe2 at ewe2_au.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 29 12:57:51 2005
From: ewe2 at ewe2_au.yahoo.invalid (Sean Dwyer)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:57:51 +1100
Subject: [the_old_crowd] RE: Best of Enemies. pt. 4.
In-Reply-To: <FDCCEEC6AAC8DD4AA2DD0C28E41D2832489F1C@...>
References: <FDCCEEC6AAC8DD4AA2DD0C28E41D2832489F1C@...>
Message-ID: <20050129125750.GA13084@...>

On Fri, Jan 28, 2005 at 11:42:51AM -0600, Smythe, Boyd T {FLNA} wrote:
> 
> Kneasy, another wonderfully soul-staining take on the "villains" in the
> Potterverse.

Yes, it's been enthralling. I never cease to wonder at how many angles you can
look at this from!

> Is anybody else out there actually rooting for Lord Thingy to finally look
> the part in HBP? Kill a few key adults (DD, please!) and a couple of
> students, maybe even a treacherous DE for fun? And all in a *very* foul way.
> And, most importantly, that nothing good happens to offset those
> deaths--yet.
> 
> Otherwise, we're not talking about good triumphing over evil.

I have the occasional fear that the rabbit may refuse to leave the hat...then
Kneasy comes along and reminds me that there's always an angle an author can
cheat you with. Rowling strikes me as a student of Christie, in which case the
herring will be very red indeed.

> Of course, the other option is that LV represents something larger, such as
> the recurring baddie or the world of magic, as proposed by others. Running
> out of time on those predictions, though....

Whether we like it or not, I feel Rowling will ignore that unless it justifies
plot. We hear a lot, for example, about the enormous importance of Harry to
the WW but only because Harry hears that, or perhaps that he focusses on it,
is a better way to put it. Only because Voldy is prepared to make use of the
historical tensions of the WW are those tensions even employed.

I'd like to know why she is interested in killing major characters, and what
the whole death theme is leading up to. That's certainly a theme she has to
stick to.

-- 
Mac OS X. Because re-branding NeXTStep was easier than fixing Mac OS.



From elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 29 13:36:54 2005
From: elfundeb at elfundeb2.yahoo.invalid (elfundeb)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:36:54 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Best of Enemies. pt. 4.
References: <C73F7493-707E-11D9-8E50-000A9577CB94@...>
Message-ID: <001e01c50607$98cee200$3c02a8c0@TOSHIBALAPTOP>

Kneasy writes:

<<"Next!"
And who is this shuffling to front and centre?
Of course! Barty Crouch the younger!>>

I'm enjoying this series, but especially Barty Jr., who is my absolute favorite Ever So Evil character.  :-)

<<And Crouch Snr  keeping a zonked out officially dead DE in the 
woodshed, the attic or wherever. What on earth was he going to  do with 
him? Eventually transfigure him into a draught excluder, perhaps? And 
if Jnr was constantly enveloped in an Invisibility Cloak, how the hell 
did Barty Snr ever know where he was?  By blasting Leg-locker spells 
around the kitchen until something fell over? Yeah, sure.>>

Well, that was Winky's job.  "I was always with the house-elf.  She was my keeper and caretaker."  Though that doesn't explain everything, does it?  When did Winky sleep?  Did she accompany him to the shower?  Perhaps, though, Crouch Sr. didn't expect a son who screamed "I didn't do it" and begged for mercy to be quite so recalcitrant after being rescued.

<<Lots of  fans are unhappy that Archduffer!DD didn't  spot Crouch!Moody 
as a ringer for an entire school year. Old friends, common experiences 
and memories - "'ere, Ally, remember that time at Coven 80 to 130, when 
you, me and them two Veelas...." - no way could Barty cover up for that 
long. Of course not. DD knew. The Portkey Cup may have caught him on 
the hop, nothing else did IMO.>>

Obviously Fake!Moody must have avoided everyone on the ostensible basis of his irrational fear that *they* were all DEs in disguise.  Unfortunately, Dumbledore strongly implies that, at a minimum, he was not sure until young Barty swept Harry away from the melee after the return from the graveyard.  "The moment he took you, I knew -- and I followed."  But if he suspected (and surely he must have, because otherwise he could not have put two and two together so quickly and had a plan ready to implement), my answer to why he didn't confront his suspect is simply that that's not generally how Laissez-faire!Dumbledore does things.  He'd much rather let Barty Jr. hang himself with his own rope, as he eventually did.

Though, I must ask, if Dumbledore became suspicious, why didn't he use his Legilimency skills on his suspect?  Did Barty Jr. deliberately avoid face-to-face contact with Dumbledore?


<<And just what is he intending to do with all these millions once he's 
got them in durance vile? Turn 'em into slaves? Sounds good, that  - 
but there's one small snag. Slaving at doing what? If they're *all* 
slaves there's no-one to buy what they produce - no wages, no money, no 
consumers thirsting for the latest Madam Malkin creation.>>

Ahh.  That's what the sycophants -- whoops! I meant the DEs -- are for.  Any villain worth his salt can always find enough materialistic, status-seeking slimeballs who are willing to grovel in exchange for an opportunity to feed at the feast and lord themselves over the masses.

Debbie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Jan 29 19:51:37 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:51:37 +0000
Subject: Best of  Enemies. pt 5.
Message-ID: <2FE85D29-722F-11D9-89BE-000A9577CB94@...>

Heading down the home straight.
Just the duo that have featured towards the latter part of the series 
to deal with. Though it's been so much fun (for me, I don't really 
bother too much about you) that I'll have to think of  something else 
to perpetrate on a tolerant fandom.

Confirmation of Folklore stereotypes here: wizards may be dangerous, 
but if you want somebody really nasty, it's a witch that  invariably 
take the biscuit.
So last, though by no means least, let's take an opportunity to examine 
that pitiless pair from the distaff side.

To many of the fans these two are the cruelest, the most sadistic of 
the lot. No surprise there. The fairer sex, traditionally regarded as 
caring and compassionate, has sometimes thrown up individuals 
demonstrating a potential for vindictiveness and viciousness that is 
awe-inspiring. My word, yes. ("Salome, dear - not in the fridge.") 
Fortunately (for everybody else) it's usually directed at individuals, 
though those that embrace a 'cause' tend to be even more of a worry.

And with these two we have both ends of the spectrum - the two-faced 
cow who would smilingly poison your porridge for failing to lower the 
loo-seat and the loony who wants to change the world.

Right.
Dolores Jane Umbridge.
Dear Dolly.

I've got a theory about Dolly. I browse through the books and it 
strikes me that any adult claiming pureblood ancestry is never 
described as wearing Muggle clothes unless it is absolutely necessary - 
like when Arthur wanders through London on his way to the Ministry with 
Harry. It's sort of backed up by Madam Malkin - "Robes for *all* 
occasions" (my emphasis). But Dolly, she wears a fluffy cardigan, even 
at Hogwarts. Therein lies the key to her mind-boggling subservience to 
the whims of the  Ministry. She's looking for acceptance and approval 
from the ruling clique and believes that by out-Heroding Herod she'll 
crack the glass ceiling and become one of the boys - in a manner of 
speaking. It may also to a certain extent explain her public antagonism 
towards half-breeds of any stripe and would indicate a *very* twisted 
mind.

Harry is still seen as a problem despite the press campaign 
characterising him as a delusional half-wit, and in the privacy of his 
office no doubt Fudge has muttered the WW equivalent of "Who will rid 
me of this turbulent priest?"
Enter faithful minion - "Me, sir!" Though it probably wasn't as blatant 
as that. However, she remembers Harry's apparent susceptibility to 
Dementors (no surprise since IMO it was Fudge who sicced 'em on Harry 
in the first place when they were supposedly playing kiss-chase with 
Sirius. Dolly may be nasty, but an original thinker she ain't. A 
bureaucrat follows precedent.)

Can't fail - or so she thinks; if he beats off the Dementors he can be 
nailed for using magic in the presence of a Muggle. Might have worked - 
except for DD, an independent thinker, though he does have the virtue 
of usually keeping his mouth shut in public, and who through his 
interference promptly gets himself promoted to number 2 on Dolly's shit 
list. Time to crush this nest of vipers, these mockers of Ministry 
omniscience!

So Dolly goes to war using the weapons she knows best - decrees; 
memoranda; rules; administrative punishments - though with her own 
little embellishments to make them more memorable. And war it is, so 
far as she's concerned; strategy, tactics, manoeuvre, ambush. The 
Ministry is being defied by a snotty kid and an old fool. Stop the rot 
- now. Otherwise who knows where it'll end?

It may all have started by arguing that the end justifies the means but 
as she becomes more involved this fades as the rationale behind her 
actions. No longer is the extirpation of dissent the main goal, instead 
power whispers seductively in her shell-like. Hogwarts, once a 
reasonably independent institution with it's own ethic and Board of 
Governors, can be re-made in the image of the Ministry. The curriculum 
will be adjusted to be more congruent with MoM thinking and policy; a 
more complaisant teaching staff is needed - some of them have been 
around for decades! What do they know of the needs of modern wizarding 
society? Hm. Now why does this ring a bell?

The hopelessly out-dated (Sybil), the intransigent (DD, Minerva) or the 
"not quite what we're looking for" (Hagrid) are surplus to 
requirements; one way or another they have to go. And go they do. 
Triumph! Only it isn't. Resistance remains. The capacity of 
like-thinking groups of hom. sap. to retreat into sheer 
bloody-mindedness and truculence when imposed on by outsiders is a 
common phenomenon, and so it proves here. Even Quisling Slytherins 
don't help much. Dolly eventually falls through her own greed. You 
don't really think the 'weapon' would be handed straight over to the 
Ministry, do you? Oh, no. Dolly has visions of power and authority. 
Poor Dolly.

The major question is "Was Dolly an associate/supporter of Voldy?" No, 
I don't think so. It would be a meaningless question to ask Dolly, 
she's not bothered about individuals that much, more about systems, 
smooth running administration, and the removal of obstacles thereto. 
And if Voldy took over the Ministry?
Well, it'd mean he was the right man for the job, wouldn't it?


Remember how Patsy from Ab Fab once described Saffy?
The Bitch-Troll from Hell.

For one who has taken up so little page space Mrs Lestrange has made 
quite an impact on fandom.

I suspect (here we go again - I can hear the sighs of exasperation from 
here) that it's because she seems so familiar. Any bloke who didn't 
rush off and marry his childhood sweetheart 5 minutes after finishing 
his education has an 80% chance of an encounter (or worse) with someone 
who bears striking similarities to Darling Bella. As Crouch!Moody so 
accurately puts it in GoF - "You can see it in the eyes." Yup. And as 
the sainted Willie Rushton observed in his seminal masterpiece "Super 
Pig" in every man's life there is one woman who turns his bowels to 
water. Oh yes.

This is such an incontrovertible truism that  the first response of 
keen fans to her appearance in the text was to postulate all sorts of, 
well - 'unhealthy' not to say disgusting interactions between Harry and 
Bella. And believe me, it's more fun than SHIPs. This despite the fact 
that she's done little to Harry apart from threatening him with her 
wand. Even that makes me break out in a light sweat.

One of my more whimsical observations on life is that what every 17 
year old boy needs is Tina Turner.  If she's not available, Bella will 
make a damn good substitute. Less imaginative posters hypothesise a 
show-down between her and Neville. How mundane can you get? Have you no 
soul, is there no fire in your belly? *This* could be epic. Ginny will 
be Burger-King after Michellin 3 star; Hermione boiled cabbage after 
fois gras. Lucky, lucky Harry.

La Belle Dame Sans Merci. And if she finds Harry alone and palely 
loitering, his goose is cooked.

A series of posts on anti-Harry characters ends with Bella; she's been 
saved to last because she's the *next* anti-Harry character in the 
series - or I  very much hope so. 5 months and 3 weeks to savour the 
possibilities.
Is that enough time?

Kneasy




From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 30 20:38:23 2005
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:38:23 -0000
Subject: best of enemies pt 4: Young Barty
Message-ID: <ctjgjv+eqr9@...>


Kneasy wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_
old_crowd/message/960 :

<< And if Jnr was constantly enveloped in an Invisibility Cloak, how
the hell did Barty Snr ever know where he was? >>

There seems to be a belief in the fandom that Dumbledore can see
throught Invisibility Cloaks despite having a non-artificial eye.
Maybe Old Barty can do so, too. I expect that all House Elves can.

<< And there's not much point in being the sole survivor, capering
with joy in a radio-active, poison ridden landscape. >>

I don't think Voldemort will discover that it gets boring until after
he's achieveed it.

Elfun Deb wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/964 :

<< Well, that was Winky's job. "I was always with the house-elf. She
was my keeper and caretaker." Though that doesn't explain everything,
does it? When did Winky sleep? >>

Who says House Elves sleep (except when sleeping off a Butterbeer
drunk)? 

<< Did she accompany him to the shower? >>

She bathed him in a portable tub, the same as when he was a baby,
including the use of partial immobilization Charms when he was being
obsteperous. The humiliation he felt was entirely a matter of age
status, not sexual at all, any more than a pet dog hanging out while
he was bathing would be sexual. Oh, I almost forgot: IMHO.






From neilward at flyingfordanglia.yahoo.invalid  Sun Jan 30 21:57:11 2005
From: neilward at flyingfordanglia.yahoo.invalid (Neil Ward)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 21:57:11 -0000
Subject: New year, new brooms
Message-ID: <ctjl7n+dq5l@...>


Hi TOC-ers!

As you know, this list started out as a place to discuss Order of The 
Phoenix, around the time of its publication date.  It's never been 
limited to that alone, but I think we can now officially generalise 
to "the works and world of JK Rowling".  Time to pull out that thesis 
speculating on the content and style of "Rabbit" - we're all ears.

The list belongs to all its members, so everyone should feel free to 
kick off discussions at any time, suggest things, ask 
questions...whatever.  There are a few ancient moderators, who set 
the few ground rules, but the idea is to hang out and have a 
relatively rule-free time.   

OT posts are absolutely fine, but it helps if they have OT in the 
title.  Anything goes, frankly, from a birth announcement to a 
dissection of Harry's left kidney, but I imagine we're mostly here to 
explore the books.

The last thing to mention is membership.  A straw poll of the 
moderators suggests that (a) we want some more members, like NOW, and 
(b) we probably don't ever want more than 500 members.  The latter 
may be open to discussion at a later date, but to help with the 
former, please feel free to nominate fascinating people for 
invitation.

To nominate, please enter the name/ID and email address of the person 
in the database called "Propose New Members":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/database

Kelley has kindly updated the list of people we have invited to date 
(in the database called "Invited to date"), which you can use for 
reference.  There is no rule against re-inviting someone who didn't 
join previously.

There's another reference you may find useful located in the Files 
area ? an Excel table of current members:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/files/

Also in the Files area, you'll find a slightly revised "Rules of the 
Hut" and - in the ADMIN folder - a template showing how the 
invitation will read.

I aim to send out some invitations next Saturday, so, um, get 
cracking.

Thanks, all

Neil

flyingfordanglia