The Chain

[Jen Reese]

OK, finally I had time to read all of Valky's post on the main list 
(#133693--a great read for any who missed this one)and digest your 
thoughts here, Talisman. Whew! It's a lot to think about. Mainly I 
have just a few thoughts and questions......

Talisman:
> Valky's theory is that, beyond destroying the Horcrux, someone one 
> has to volunteer to die in order to take that bit of soul to the 
> other side.  I agree.
> 
> She thought that Sirius finished the job for his brother, Regulus, 
> and carried the soul bit from the locket over, just as DD carried 
> the bit from the ring.
> 
> One of her problems was that DD seems to contradict this when he 
> explains how Harry destroyed the Diary Horcrux (503) and elsewhere 
> says, that bit of soul [that was in the Diary] is gone (can't find 
> the site just now). 
<<snip>> 
> My take on it is that, yes, DD put Sirius through the veil so that 
> he could carry a piece of LV's soul with him.  But it was the 
piece 
> from the Diary. Harry destroyed the Diary, but he didn't remove
> the soul from inside of it.

Jen: When Harry destroys the diary, the 'memory' of Tom Riddle 
disappears with a piercing scream. That's all we have to go on. But 
it does seem the actual Horcrux itself, the container, was ruined. 

Now we do have canon that when a container is ruined, i.e. Voldemort 
himself at GH, his mangled soul still lived on in vapor b/c of the 
Horcruxes. 

But I'm thinking the actual Horcrux itself wouldn't act in the same 
way. For one thing, Voldemort contains the host soul within his 
body, not a portion of his ripped soul. The ripped soul, no longer 
attached to the host, would be totally dependent on the container to 
survive. If the container is destroyed.....

Voldemort seems to believe he lost one part of his soul when the 
Horcrux!diary was destroyed: "Ah, poor Lucius...what with 
Voldemort's fury about the fact that he threw away the Horcrux for 
his own gain..." (chap 23, p. 508)

Now I guess there's a possibilty the soul found another 'host' in 
the chamber, but if indeed the soul portion left the diary and 
entered Ginny (b/c she was already the one attached to it), then 
Sirius taking the diary through the veil didn't destroy the soul.

Talisman:
> Similarly, DD says he destroyed the ring Horcrux, and he says the 
> ring is no longer a Horcrux (503), but he simply omits the part 
> explaining that *he* now is saddled with this piece of LV's soul 
> which has to be taken to the other side.

Jen:
"However, a withered hand does not seem an unreasonable exchange for 
a seventh of Voldemort's soul." (chap. 23, p. 503)

This is purely a thematic thought, but why isn't it enough that 
Harry and Co. have to search down and destroy all the Horcruxes, 
without the additional plot development of carrying the souls over 
to the other side?

There is precedent for this idea in Greek myth, where a soul cannot 
find rest until safely in the Underworld. And in Pottervese as well, 
with the ghosts. And there would be a certain symmetry to Harry's 
life, starting with the sacrifice by Lily and ending with sacrifices 
by all his nearest and dearest.

I guess it feels like too *much* plot development. Every courier 
must be someone willing to sacrifice for Harry, and each one 
performing the sacrifical killing must also be willing to sacrifice 
for Harry. Harry's a sweetie and all that, but.....;)

Now from Talisman post #2414:
> That, I think, is a part of being a member of the Order, not just 
> the willingness to fight LV, nor even the willingness to face
> death in the battle, but an agreement--if necessary--to go out by
> friendly fire in order to transport another piece of LV soul.
> 
> That is why Mrs. Weasley is so agitated when Sirius tells Harry 
> about the Order, and he wants to join.  
> 
> You may recall, it's not Mrs. Weasley who answers Harry, it's 
Lupin.
> 
> "No...The Order is comprised only of overage wizards," he 
> said... "There are dangers of which you can have no idea, any of 
> you..." (OoP 96)
> 
> He is saying this to a boy who has met the assembled DEs, who has 
> already battled LV, a Basilisk, dementors, a troll, etc.  There is 
> something even more awful facing members of the OoP?  uh-huh.

Jen: Harry has certainly faced many dangerous situations. He's also 
always had help (whether in person or through Fawkes or other 
magical means). I believe by this comment Lupin is thinking of a few 
things Harry's never run up against, and certainly not when alone 
and isolated from everything except his wand and a little luck.

Lupin certainly understands, acting as a spy within the werewolves 
while Fenrir is on the loose. No other Order members around. No 
blood protection. One day the werewolves decide they don't trust him 
and...well, it wouldn't be pretty. No DD around to catch the fall, 
no Fawkes swooping in with GG's sword.

It's hard to understand how embattled Order members, who have faced 
the darkest, foulest parts of the WW with nothing more than their 
skill and luck, would view a sacrifice as 'dangerous'. Especially a 
*willing* sacrifice, which is what it sounds like must happen in 
order for a soul to safely make its way back to the other side. 
Dying by friendly fire sounds a helluva lot less dangerous than 
having Fenrir rip your body from limb to limb. 

Jen, thinking Valky and Talisman are pretty darn clever.