His Little Helper

[Talisman]

Carolyn in message 2552: 
>Firstly, as has already been pointed out I think, Voldemort doesn't
>seem to know his locket is missing, so he has no big reason to kill
>Regulus apart from Reg wimping out of being a DE. 

Talisman:
This must be a misunderstanding, because it's never been my 
contention that LV knew/knows anything about the Hx theft. 

No, Voldemort doesn't know the locket is missing.  Reg was not axed 
for taking the locket, he was axed for leaving the DEs, as we were 
told in OoP.  

But, yes, leaving the DEs would be LV's "big reason" for having Reg 
killed.  It's a standard item on the murders-to-do list: execute 
disgruntled minions.

DEs know that the only way out of Voldemort's service is feet 
first.  Having already left LV's service, or being about to do so, 
Reg took the Hx at a time when he already knew he was going to be 
executed, therefore the reference in the note.

Carolyn in message 2605:
>A further interesting footnote is that Regulus is described as dying
>15 years previous to when Harry first sees the tapestry. That's 
1980,
>the year Harry was born. If Regulus did take the locket, what was 
the
>trigger for him attempting it at that particular time? 

Talisman: What was the trigger for him leaving the DEs? We don't 
know yet, but we certainly know there was one.  I think we'll agree 
that Regulus 1) did indeed decide to leave the DEs;  and, 2) was in 
fact killed, on Voldemort's orders, for leaving.  

Since we know the two textual facts above, it's not hard to see why 
someone who 1) has decided to leave the DEs, for whatever highly 
motivating reason;  2) knows LV will have them killed for doing so; 
and, 3) knows what Hxes are and where to find one, would decide, as 
a last act, to attempt to destroy it.

Carolyn in message 2605:
>Talisman thought he did it with Kreacher, but how could the elf 
rationalise his >involvement, even if strong enough to be an 
accomplice? 

Talisman:
I don't perceive House Elves as having anything to rationalize, they 
are slaves and, so long as a family member is giving orders, they 
are bound to obey. 

Carolyn in message 2605:
>It would also mean Kreacher made Regulus drink the poison...

Talisman: Absolutely.  A lot easier to believe than Harry making DD 
drink gop, don't you think?

Carolyn in message 2605 :
>I still prefer my idea that it could have been Regulus' father, who
>thought Voldemort had started to go to far, and wanted to give his
>son a way out by helping him with his revenge. 

Talisman: Striking a blow at LV was the point. There's an aspect of 
revenge in the mix no matter who R.A.B. turns out to be. 

However, if Papa Black was snuffed by LV, especially in context with 
Regulus's defection, one would think Sirius would have mentioned it 
when he was pointing out the consequences of his family's folly 
during the review of the tapestry in OoP.  Sirius doesn't mention 
the cause of his father's death or any connection between that and 
LV or Regulus. He does point out that his parents weren't DEs. (OoP 
112)

Carolyn in message 2605 :
>...anyone else catch the fact that Merope, Morfin and Marvolo are 
all MG?

Talisman: 
It does make it hard to sort out the monogrammed hankies. :)   

While there are any number of  alternate theories, my preference for 
Reg springs from what I consider the greatest weight of the 
evidence. I just don't think the possibility of other relatives with 
matching initials is as strong as the evidence for Reg.  

Maybe it would be a bit stronger if Sirius had an "R" for a first 
initial, but he doesn't.  That doesn't mean Papa Black can't have 
an "R" name, but it indicates that the Blacks weren't following the 
same naming logic as the Gaunts. 

Potioncat in message 2616 
>So I think the switch happened before placement, the real horcrux 
was
>hidden by RAB before hand. He or she must have had time to go
>somewhere before going to the cave OR he/she gave it to someone
>before going to the cave. This also means RAB must have known what
>the horcrux looked like ahead of time, to have something ready to
>switch.

Talisman:
A very imaginative theory. However, I agree with Jen. I'm 
uncomfortable with the idea that LV would allow anyone else to carry 
the Hx around, let alone rely on them to put it safely in the gop.  

Jen Reese message 2599 
>It's just so....obvious, you know? That the
>mystery would be wrapped up so succintly and neatly from the text,
>with every clue readily available. 

Talisman: It does seem obvious to me, but obviously it's not obvious 
to everyone! : )

In Book 7 Harry has 4 Hxes plus LV to handle.  We also need the 
Dursleys to get their due, we are supposed to find out why Sirius 
and Snape loathed each other, we have to have the Harry/Snape 
showdown, find out about Snape's big secrets, learn what happened at 
Godric's Hollow, and heaven knows what else, not to mention a little 
bit of happy ending that isn`t relegated to the epilogue.  

Rowling has indicated that Harry isn't aware of everything he'll 
need to do.  And what about Nagini? You're not going to off that 
snake without LV getting wise.  And, once you've allowed him to see 
a Hx destroyed, you'd better be able to zap him before he starts 
making more.  There is a lot of tricky stuff to deal with in 7--
especially if Rowling doesn't want another book as long as OoP.

I think we need to expect that a certain number of things are going 
to fall into place with extant text.  Regulus is great for doing 
that.  

There is just no way the locket Hx isn't going to turn out to be 
the "heavy locket that none of them could open" that Harry & Co. 
find when they are cleaning cabinets at GP. (OoP 116)

The cleaning crew tossed it into the sack they were filling with 
debris, so Kreature will have had to have snagged it, and it will be 
in his little nest.

Magda Grantwich Message 2594
>And if Regulus was RAB it won't be because he's important to the 
plot
>but rather because it ties into a few other plot points that are
>hanging loose at the moment:
>1. Harry inheriting 12GP and everything in it.
>2. Harry inheriting Kreacher.
>3. Kreacher being close at hand at Hogwarts and having to obey 
Harry.
>4. Mundungus Fletcher being caught stealing loot from 12GP.
Regulus was RAB. I'm betting on it.

Talisman: 
That's the thinking behind my original post, except the only reason 
Mundungus' stealing figures in is that it may remind readers of all 
the interesting stuff at GP.  Do you have another reason?

moosemingMessage 2566
>I'm intrigued as to why, in the interview, JKR is so specific about
>Voldy *not* being the one to kill Reg. Does this mean that who did
>kill him (Snape?) or what (potion?) is significant?

Talisman:
I really think that's just because Amanda misspoke and JKR 
recognized it.  If Rowling had simply agreed, she would have been 
pounced upon by readers who have a better grasp of the facts than 
her interviewer did.

Carolyn message 2552: 
>What I just don't get is why anyone thinks Regulus is up to
>retrieving the locket in the first place, and re-creating/inventing 
a
>very complex potion, then leaving everything shipshape and tidy so 
no
>one notices he's been there.

Talisman:
I don't think we need to devise the story of how everything 
happened, I'm confident that JKR can manage that. Nonetheless, I'll 
hazard my own version--which is not actually necessary to RAB being 
Regulus-- it's just a "for instance."

Perhaps LV wanted an assistant when he set up the locket Hx site--or 
was back doing some maintenance. 

Regulus, as both an underage wizard and a DE would be ideal.  Like 
Harry, he could ride along with LV without having to fuss around 
with the Inferi (I know they work for LV, but that doesn't mean they 
don't take any effort).  Additionally, LV might have considered a 
young DE less of a security risk.  Easier to frighten, less likely 
to try anything, um, shall we say, "ambitious."

But, as you've suggested, maybe the whole project is what turned him 
against LV: the necessary murder; the ingredients/method for 
creating the gop; the staffing of the Inferi guards, etc. who knows 
how many atrocities were involved. Maybe Reg's defection/locket-swap 
plan was put together even while he assisted LV in the locket 
security project. 

So LV takes Reg with him on this Hx errand.  Regulus gets the lay of 
the land and knows how to get into the gop--perhaps even without 
drinking it.  (I'm very sure LV doesn't have to drink gop to get his 
Hx out.)  Reg may have known this other way to get at the locket--
perhaps he had a sort of security clearance--or, maybe the recipe 
called for a splash of blood or something that Reg contributed, 
giving him handling rights. Who knows.

Alternatively, Reg could simply have had access to the area where LV 
whipped up the goop, and, just as we saw Draco swipe some polyjuice, 
Regulus could have siphoned off a few quarts of limeade for later 
use.  Then LV took him along as an assistant to set up the basin 
etc., etc.

Later Regulus comes back with Kreature, drinks the stuff in the 
basin, switches lockets, and fills it back up with his poached 
potion (or rather, has Kreature do everything necessary after he 
drinks the gop).

Rowling can make up any scenario she likes.  But at least with Reg, 
she's got less to make up than if she goes for a character whose 
story doesn't yet place them as a defecting DE with the right 
initials, access to both the cave and the place the locket ended up 
(GP), not to mention a certain informative elf.


Carolyn cont.:
>Secondly, JKR herself draws a parallel with Draco, and this seems
>obvious to me too. Draco wasn't up to the job at 16, and it seems
>startlingly unlikely that a 16-17 year old Regulus was either. Think
>about it. For almost the entire series we have had dinned into our
>heads that only Voldemort and Harry have had skills that come close
>to DD's, and it wiped DD out dealing with the potion and the Inferi.

Talisman:
As an aside, I'm not sure Harry's skills do compare with DD's.

Back to the point, Regulus would have been executed for leaving the 
DE's a short time after completing the switcheroo, and there is no 
reason to believe he wasn't in a sickened condition when they caught 
up with him. So, it's not like he skipped away.

More importantly, Regulus had inside knowledge.  Couple that with 
Kreature's help, and the fact that he died shortly thereafter.  It's 
not so hard to believe. 

Moreover, one of JKR's philosophical points is that kids are more 
capable than they are given credit for being.  

Also there's Rowling's reversed symmetry pattern: Regulus was up to 
the job, which was defying LV; Draco wasn`t up to his job, which was 
obeying the DL.

Carolyn:
>Thirdly, the person who did do it could only have found the cave if
>they knew something of young Tom Riddle's past, and as DD has 
pointed
>out, very, very few people do. I could accept that they took Regulus
>along as an underage assistant, and possibly made him drink the
>potion and that's why he both ran away and subsequently died, but 
not
>that he organised the expedition.

Talisman:
As above, or in some variation, I think Regulus got his info on the 
cave from LV.  I think this is much more plausible than having JKR 
unravel a back story in Book 7 wherein a nonDE (like Papa Black) 
knew LV was TR, found the orphanage, tracked down the "outing" 
information from Mrs. Cole, etc., knew about the Hxes, put 16 and 28 
together and came up with the cave location, and then overcame all 
the magical security with no inside help.  Even DD had inside scoop.

On the other hand, if Regulus visited the cave with LV, as a little 
DE assistant, he'd have seen how everything worked, with no need for 
knowing TR's life story.  When he went back later with Kreature, he 
would, indeed, have been the organizer.

Snow in message 2547
>Those little darlings (toe-rags) are there for more than just
>Hermione's activist-supporter-red-herrings-of-injustice. Kreacher,
>the one we all want to loathe, could be greater than we have yet 
>seen him to be. Neigh unwillingly.

Talisman: 
Yep, and Harry's got some lessons to learn that fit in nicely.  
Our "pure-hearted" little hero has a real weakness for spite.  

Whether it's the advice from Cedric, or doing anything Snape asks 
him, etc., Harry will cut off his nose to spite a character with 
whom he has issues.  He loathes Kreature, but, under this theory,  
he will need Kreature to complete his mission.

That's just a warm up for his ultimate need for Snape, and it's a 
lesson JKR is going to have to show him learning.  Realizing he has 
to work with Kreature, and getting over it, offers a good way for 
Harry to cut some more maturity teeth. 

As I mentioned in the original message, Kreature may have lots of 
good information.  If LV did some boasting, etc. to Reg, Kreature 
may be able to give Harry clues to finding another Hx, as well as 
various bits of info on the Malfoys, other DEs, or LV.  He's a 
grubby little gold-mine.

Snow in message 2607 :
>They didn't find his body did they? It's in the lake with the other
>Inferi.

Talisman:
Hmm. Interesting detail, but I don't recall reading that they didn't 
find his body.  The tapestry does list a date of death, how would 
the family know he was gone if he just stopped dropping by? It'd be 
more MIA than dead, wouldn't it?

ameliagoldfeesh in message 2621:
The poster's, Evie, brother noted that when Harry tried "Accio 
Horcrux"
an inferi jumped out of the water. Why would using that spell cause
one of to jump? Also, why only one? As the brother said, "if the
horcrux wasn't there.. nothing would've happened when he tried to
summon it."

Talisman:
I think it was simply the fact that a summoning charm was used that 
roused the Inferius.  

One of the protections LV set up was that if someone came in and 
started summoning things the prune-fingered ones would get up and 
see about it. I think they would have been roused if Harry had 
said, "Accio thingy-with-the-green-light!"

While it's true that the summoning charm didn't bring the fake Hx to 
Harry, it probably wouldn't have brought the real one, either--
thanks to LV's protective spells.

Nonetheless, it did tell the soggy watchman that someone was inside 
and trying to get stuff via magic.

Why did only one jump up? Why did it lay back down?  Meta reasons, I 
suspect. The world may never know.

Talisman saying, at some point it's moot whether Regulus or Papa 
made the switch. I'm still backing Regulus, but the more important 
point is that the locket is at GP, and Kreature knows more bout it.

P.S.
Neil: In spite of that fact that you run with a very rough crowd and 
allow them to talk you into all manner of villainy, don't think I 
didn't notice how nice you were not to bust my chops when I 
transposed your vowels. 

If you ever need it, I'll be happy to write a letter to the parole 
board on your behalf.