unicorns and religious references in HP (was checking out the library book

[nkafkafi]

> > Olivier
> > I am an objective non-Christian, inasmuch as you could be an 
> > "objective" anything. I am totally devoid of any belief in the 
> > Christian religion nor in any other for that matter. Yet, as I 
have 
> > written already, I perceive some christian religious references in
> HP  (mentionned them in a previous post). However, I still side with
> you  Kneasy when in comes to monks and nuns in HP.
> <snip>
> > PS: I would be quite curious to know how someone with a strong
> belief  in another religion react to these references though. 
Pippin,
> am I right to think you could enlighten me on this (if you wish to
> answer  and feel it is quite unconnected to HP, you can send me an
>  e-mail)?
> 
> Pippin:
> You'll have to judge my objectivity for yourself, but I am a
> non-Christian, raised a non-Christian, with a very strong Jewish 
> identification. And as soon as I read that Lily's sacrifice had not 
> only saved Harry, but endowed him with lasting protection,  
> I thought, "Oh, Christianity. Okay, that explains the unicorn. " *
> 
> <snipped>

Neri:
I'm an Israeli Jewish atheist, and also a Tolkien fan. I of course 
detected the Christian references in HP, which are practically 
unavoidable considering the many different genres, cultures and myths 
that HP draws from. However, I've never perceived JKR's main themes 
to be Christian. I do perceive them to be *deeply* moral/humanistic, 
as in many other modern western fantasy/children books (including, 
for example, Phillip Pullman). Western Humanism is of course deeply 
indebted to Christianity, but it also dispensed with many of its more 
conservative ideas, such as religious intolerance. In fact religion 
and faith of any kind aren't required in modern Humanism. Its main 
values are freedom of choice and thought, love (in the very general 
meaning of the word) and the sacred value of human life, all of them 
main themes in HP.

I had to smile at Olivier referring to the story of Eve and the snake 
as Christian (snipped), but to be fair the ancient Israelites most 
probably borrowed it from even older pagan Semitic cultures. I also 
must note here that the "anti religious" Pullman *explicitly* 
compared his main characters in the Dark Materials series to Adam and 
Eve, something JKR is yet to do. So using religious and mythological 
materials (even in a positive way) hardly says anything about the 
author's position regarding institutional religion. 

Granted, JKR has the sharp divide between Light and Dark which is 
indeed more a Christian concept than of any other religion/culture, 
and was (I think) re-introduced into modern fantasy by Tolkien, but 
my feeling is that JKR uses it mainly as a conventional plot device 
(all of us probably thought Star Wars when reading JKR's "the Dark 
Side"), while actually being much more interested with the whole 
range of colors between Dark and Light.    

> Pippin: 
> I wasn't surprised to learn that the  author had a strong
> identification with Christianity, or that she felt  that expounding 
> on her beliefs would give the storyline away.
> 

Neri:
Erm... I don't remember JKR saying she had a strong identification 
with Christianity. I remember her saying she believed in God, which 
isn't the same thing. I suspect we'll find out in the end of the 
series that JKR's belief is more universal than any form of 
traditional Christianity.    

> Pippin: 
> I think the Christian content  of HP will go on being allusive and 
> symbolic, rather than strictly allegorical, so unless Jo comes 
> right out and says, "I intended thus and so to be a Christian 
> message" this issue will always be open for debate. However, 
> I do think the books are most definitely the products of a 
> Christian sensibility. 
>

Neri:
Agreed.

> Pippin:
> They've got a certain, well, optimism, about them that I associate
> with Christianity. When a Jew writes fantasy you
> get Lemony Snickett. Or Superman. Or Bewitched. There is
> that sense,  which I don't get in HP, that however many times 
> a happy ending is achieved, the existence of
> goodness itself is precarious. There's no kryptonite in the
> Potterverse.
>

Neri:
There's something in what you're saying <g>, but I still suspect that 
this is more a cultural than a religious thing. In fact, most Jews 
that write fantasy are probably not religious, while recent religious 
Jews (especially of the Hassidic currents) strongly believe the 
Messiah may come any day.
 
Neri