Connecting the dots

[snow15145]

Ø	Snow previously:
> For some reason this made me think of JKR's statement on her site
> that if Ginny would have died that Voldemort would have become
> something almost unconquerable:
>
> Section: F.A.Q.
> In 'Chamber of Secrets', what would have happened if Ginny had died
> and Tom Riddle had escaped the diary?
> "I can't answer that fully until all seven books are finished, but 
it
> would have strengthened the present-day Voldemort considerably."
>
> If Riddle had re-birthed himself using Ginny's soul Tom would have
> possibly become the pureblood that Salazar needed being as his own
> last remaining heir was born half pure grain muggle and therefore of
> little value to the cause. After all Riddle said in the Chamber that
> his diary self was there to someday lead another, not himself in
> particular, to continue Slytherin's noble work:
>
> "I decided to leave behind a diary, preserving my sixteen-year-old
> self in its pages, so that one day, with luck, I would be able to
> lead another in my footsteps, and finish Salazar Slytherin's noble
> work." COS pg. 312 U.S.
>

Kneasy:
Neat, very neat.
And if true his use of the phrase 'noble work' is a very nice pun.
Mind you, he could have started the process earlier - he could have
slipped the Diary to Draco. Now that would have been fun, he could 
have
gone down the DE Glee Club bragging about "my son, the Evil Overlord".

Snow:

Not quite because Riddle actually absorbed Ginny's soul little by 
little until he became powerful enough that she had no will of her 
own and directed her to the Chamber with her last bodily function 
where he attempted to suck out what remained of her. Draco would have 
been used in much the same manner, which is why I think Lucius did 
not subject his son to the diary but used his nemesis own child, also 
pureblood, as the tool.

Kneasy:

In retrospect there's an awful lot of stuff in CoS, particularly in 
the
climactic scene, that could turn out to be well worth teasing apart.
Yes, we've all offered opinions, but it's one of the books from before
the time the mass discussions got started. I may be mistaken but my
impression is that more often than not it's used to mine material that
can be quoted to support a theory rather than as a starting point in
it's own right.


Snow:

Absolutely! The first two books have the meat of the story but we 
have all fallen into the trap of taking too much into consideration 
thereafter, which only seems to complicate theorizing. The main list 
has gone over every chapter of the latest book but it appears to be 
of no avail or very little. If you start at the first book and go 
chapter for chapter you have four more books of knowledge to add to 
the chapter that you are examining, much more lucrative.  

Kneasy:

An example of what I mean - Ginny is possessed but states quite
categorically in OoP that her possessed mind was a blank, she can
remember nothing of what went on. Harry's possession in the Ministry 
is
just the opposite; technicolour, 3-D and with Dolby sen-surround. OK,
Voldy was in control for a very short time, but that period should be 
a
blank, shouldn't it? Why the difference? Are there different types or
qualities of possession?

Snow:

Interesting
though Ginny did seem to be aware of what was happening 
to some extent when she attempted to tell Harry of her concerns but 
Percy showed up and she stopped short or when she attempted to rid 
herself of the diary. Possibly the longer that Riddle possessed Ginny 
the less free will she had and remembrance or concerns of the events. 

Harry's possession on the other hand reminds me of the "Never-ending 
Story" when Atrayu (sic) met with himself in the mirror. Only people 
who can see themselves for who they are can look and not be afraid or 
in Harry's case feel pain. Harry had had a similar reaction in GOF 
when he tried to remember what Voldemort looked like when he turned 
his chair and killed Frank Bryce (like looking in a mirror). You made 
me think of this when you paralleled Harry and Tom Riddle to the 
point that they appeared to be one person looking at two sides of the 
same. No one likes to see the bad side of who they are or what they 
may become. Harry may have to face himself or that which he could 
become if he does not acknowledge the difference between the two, 
that is choice.

Kneasy:

Would Voldy have drained the life out of Harry as Tom was draining it
out of Ginny? Probably not IMO, or the taunting of DD to zap Harry
wouldn't have been necessary. Though I've never really understood why
stabbing the Diary would destroy Construct!Tom yet leave Ginny 
unharmed
- they had one life between them, didn't they? So if that life is
terminated why did Ginny wake up?

Snow:

But wasn't Ginny actually being sucked into the Diary via its master 
(Tom Riddle 50 years ago) who was using her to gain his strength? If 
the object that was used to keep them joined was destroyed wouldn't 
it release Ginny? Riddle was still just a memory inside the diary 
until he could be totally released from the diary by using the soul 
that he claims he needed:

"So Ginny poured out her soul to me, and her soul happened to be 
exactly what I wanted
I grew stronger and stronger on a diet of her 
deepest fears, her darkest secrets." COS PG 310 U. S. 


Kneasy:

And is it significant that Ginny's possession, what with the total
blankness, seems suspiciously similar to Sybil having one of her funny
turns? Who is pulling Sybil's strings? Now there's a question! A 
happy hunting ground for Puppetmaster!DD enthusiasts.

Snow:

Ahhh! Trelawney, one of my very favorites! A very good connection, 
one I've never connected, sounds very similar. Trelawney and Ginny 
don't remember all they've said or done. To what degree may Trelawney 
have been used to benefit the outcome?

Kneasy:

A 'seer' known to be as much use as a chocolate teapot suddenly 
starts spouting a mind-boggling prophecy at a time and place where DD 
is the only witness to the full business and an 'eavesdropper' just 
happens to be close enough to hear a part before being 'discovered' 
and ejected - and the part overheard when passed on to Voldy (who at 
the time is winning
more-or-less hands down) causes him to do something most unwise and
come a cropper. Oh yes. What a coincidence. Pull the other one for a
veritable tintinnabulatory carnival of campanology.

Snow:

So I take it you don't like the lovely Ms. Trelawney much, nor do 
many others. I wont go off on her because it is very unimportant to 
the scheme of things but the eavesdropper business is just too much. 
Dumbledore and/or the barkeep were well aware that this person had 
heard any extent of the prophecy and they allowed him a slap on the 
wrist with a lifetime ban to a low-life pub, doesn't seem to make a 
lick of sense unless they used this person to their benefit. (Dung 
comes to mind) If they couldn't use this person why didn't they just 
use a memory charm on him so that any information he had could not be 
remembered nor repeated? Seems apropos that they use this character 
to their benefit if he could be gently influenced (the Dursley's) to 
do so.

 
Kneasy:

Do you know, I only thought of the above while I was typing the
previous but one paragraph - but I like it. Nastily devious. And just
who was DD warning Harry about when Sybil coughed up the prophecy in
PoA? Seems such a shame to jump all over Sirius again, but I can't
help it. Couldn't happen to a nicer feller.

Snow:

Although Sirius is my favorite, if I had one, I have to concur that 
since the two-way-mirror answer on Rowlings site I have been a bit 
suspicious. Although as I have brought up in the past on the main 
list, the chapter in POA The Servant of Lord Voldemort begins with 
Snape as its main subject, though I must admit where Sirius or Snape 
are concerned I sometimes don't see the forest for the trees. 


> snow previous:
> Did you notice that no one went to school with Tom, other than 
Hagrid
> and Myrtle, the majority of the deatheaters being significantly
> younger than Riddle ....


Kneasy:
There's a strong possibility that McGonagall was at Hogwarts at 
roughly
the same time.
She's the right age bracket (thought to have been at Hogwarts from
about '36 to about '43 which would put her a couple of years ahead of
Tom) and yet so far she hasn't been used as the source for one single
piece of info.
Very odd when you consider how natural it would be to use her for
filling in background.

Snow:

McGonagall is another character with very little real page time who 
will, most likely in the upcoming book, reveal some interesting 
insight. Where else can Rowling go with book six that will use filler 
with no real substance to theorize with? 

Ahhh! Just waiting for more anguish from a book that will ultimately 
give more evasion than answer. Don't you just love Rowling, cough, 
Dumbledore
I mean Rowling. 

Snow