Re: The Prophecy From Voldemort’s POV (long)

[fhmaneely]

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "nkafkafi" <nkafkafi at y...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches".
> > 
> > Read that again. ALL of Voldemort's strategy since before GH and
> > throughout the series has been based on this single sentence. And 
of
> > course on his guess regarding the part that he doesn't know, which
> > apparently wasn't a very good guess. 
> > 
> > If we are ready to take DD's word, he tells us several additional
> > things about Voldemort's view of the prophecy. First, it seems 
that
> > before GH Voldy didn't see the prophecy as a threat at all. DD 
words
> > are: "He set out to kill you when you were still a baby, 
believing he
> > was fulfilling the terms of the prophecy. He discovered, to his 
cost,
> > that he was mistaken, when the curse intended to kill you 
backfired."
> > 
> > Several paragraphs later DD stresses again that, until GH, Voldy
> > didn't realize that baby Harry could be dangerous: "He <the
> > eavesdropper> heard only the beginning, the part foretelling the 
birth
> > of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort.
> > Consequently, he could not warn his master that to attack you 
would be
> > to risk transferring power to you, and marking you as his equal. 
So
> > Voldemort never knew that there might be danger in attacking you, 
that
> > it might be wise to wait, to learn more. He did not know that you
> > would have power the Dark Lord knows not." 
> > 
> 
> Kneasy:
> This passage has bothered me for since I  first read it. Is DD 
reporting fact
> or indulging in a little post-facto rationalisation? And where in 
the Prophecy
> does it mention the transfer of powers that Voldy's little helper 
couldn't
> warn him about? It doesn't so far as I can see, yet DD acts as if 
it were
> an unavoidable adjunct to Voldy's actions at GH.
> 
> Can't see how Voldy would jump to the conclusion that knocking off a
> snotty rug-rat is a fulfillment of the Prophecy either. Just the 
opposite - if
> I were on the receiving end my interpretation of the fragment 
whispered
> into his shell-like would be "If you want a long, satisfying career 
killing 
> Muggles and terrorising the WW, stay the hell away from H. Potter." 
> 
> Our beloved arch-villain is supposed to be intelligent, powerful, 
all that
> good stuff, with a traitor to help fill in the blank spots, yet he 
tip-toes 
> through the Potter's tulips and bursts into the haven of domestic 
felicity 
> like a neophyte numpty who's forgoten that the Potters are DD's ewe-
lambs.
> "Aha! Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Oops! Oh bugger!"
> Does not compute.
> 
> I've argued previously that Voldy may well have intended rounding 
off a
> pleasant evening's entertainment with a touch of infanticide, but 
he 
> wanted something else first. There's that word, you see. 
> The one that'd prick his ears up as if he were the household mutt 
and 
> somebody says "Walkies!" 
> Power. 
> Isn't that what he's all about?
> 
> Dunno if you remember, but about a year back there was a discussion 
on
> HPfGU that resulted in great wailings and gnashings of teeth for 
some, and
> blank incomprehension for others. All about the 'morality' of Harry 
killing
> Voldy and how doing so would 'stain' or 'pollute' his noble 
character. Ah
> well, takes all sorts, I suppose. The argument seems pretty 
pointless, 'cos 
> if the Prophecy is to be taken at face value it'll be Harry or 
nobody. He's the
> one with the power; nobody else - not DD, Dung or Daedelus Diggle - 
Harry.
> (Assuming that the Prophecy is about him.) Which means that Voldy 
can't be
> made to bite the dust by something as mundane as an AK. Lots of 
wizards, 
> good and bad have used that one as the last word in an argument, 
but 
> apparently they're not gonna be successful against ole Snake Eyes. 
> 
> We know remarkably little about how an AK works. Yes it kills folk, 
it's 
> forbidden, it takes practice (not the same as 'power', I think) and 
it leaves a
> lovely corpse. Does it stop the heart, coagulate the blood, fry the 
autonomic
> nervous system or turn the brain into a species of molten cheese? 
We don't 
> know. Perhaps it has no physical effect at all but removes what 
could be 
> referred to as anima, the vital principle. (Not to be confused 
with 'soul'; that's
> what Dementors extract and the result is coma, catatonia or 
something similar,
> but not death.) 
> 
> Anyway, the Prophecy indicates that young Potter has the 'power', 
it's 
> something innate, not something to be learned once this lisping 
mite has 
> grown up and learned how to handle a wand without blowing his own 
> buttocks off. And since our malevolent malefactor has spent years 
researching
> ways to up his survivability index, it's a fair bet that he'd be 
really interested 
> in finding out just what this power was that could scupper his 
dastardly plans.
> 
> It's from this line of thinking that two of my favourite theories 
can be deduced:
> 1. Possession
> 2. DD's trap
> They're linked to a certain extent, though each could  stand on 
it's own.
> Voldy wants to find out what this power is, so he invades Harry's 
mind. DD 
> knows or surmises that this will happen and sets up or 
arranges/suggests 
> that the protective charms be emplaced, much to Voldy's 
embarrassment. 
> He probably hoped that they'd knock Voldy out of the game, but they 
didn't,
> not quite. And remember, at this time Voldy was winning; the Potter 
ploy 
> might be the only decent chance that the goodies have for a shot at 
Voldy. 
> 'Course to make it work he must make sure that Voldy walks into the 
trap 
> with his eyes wide shut, leading to interesting speculations about 
the role 
> of el ratto grande in the affair. And not just that - did DD see 
the Prophecy 
> as a fortuitous opportunity, or was the Prophecy his idea in the 
first place? 
> A deliberate contrivance whose whole object was to lure Voldy to 
the bleating 
> kid staked out at Godric's Hollow. 
> 
> I do like it when discrete theories can be linked into an 
harmonious thread. 
> Not that that makes it right, but it do make it intellectually 
satisfying. Could 
> be a tie-in with Neri's quotes from the Book Festival too; we don't 
really need
> to worry about the contents per se of the Prophecy, just when, 
where and 
> how it was produced.  
> 
> > Neri:
> > DD also tells us about Voldemort's current guess regarding the 
second
> > half of the prophecy: "And so, since his return to his body, and
> > particularly since your extraordinary escape from him last year, 
he
> > has been determined to hear that prophecy in its entirety. This 
is the
> > weapon he has been seeking so assiduously since his return: the
> > knowledge of how to destroy you."
> > 
> > I know I'm not the only member who has a problem with these words 
of
> > DD, "the knowledge of how to destroy you." The second half doesn't
> > seem to contain any special knowledge how to destroy Harry. But 
Voldy
> > thinks it does.
> > 
> 
> Kneasy:
> Yeah, it bothers me a bit, too.
> My free-floating paranoia suspects a link to Diary!Tom and his 
assumption
> that  "there's nothing special about you at all." Plus his 
obsession with 
> learning the entire Prophecy seems to date (roughly) from his 
renewed 
> association with Peter (him again). Plus he never seems to be 
worried about
> exactly which of his powers have been transplanted into Harry.  
Plus why 
> couldn't he have gained at least an inkling about the 'power' 
during the 
> Ministry possession? 
> Or perhaps he has. 
> Only 73 days until we find out.

Fran:  Harry as born with the power to defeat LV. Seems to me this 
has nothing to do with the powers were transfered at GH, but those 
powers are important. When Harry meets Diary!Tom, he kills him by 
plunging the fang into the diary.  Good guess on Harry's part or is 
this part of his innate knowledge of how to defeat LV?  

2 things that bother me are (1)where did Harry get the powers he was 
born with?  Lily, James,or both?  Harry of course would not be Harry 
if he were bornto different parents....or would he?  (2)Why exactly 
dose Harry's scar hurt when Voldie is around or particularly 
mischevious?  Is there a part of LV in Harry trying to get back to 
its master ala LOTR.
Apologies if these questions seem a somewhat lame, but Iwould like 
some input!
Ah yes, 73 days