From talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov  1 21:56:13 2005
From: talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid (Talisman)
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:56:13 -0000
Subject: Subverting the genre?
In-Reply-To: <dk60d2+38gq@...>
Message-ID: <dk8o9t+349l@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
>
>If she really intends to subvert the fantasy genre she'll do the 
exact opposite. Harry loses, Voldemort wins, evil triumphs.
>A bit like the end of '1984'. That really would break the mould of 
>the fantasy ethic.


Talisman:
Nope.  That's the problem with *Fantasy,* it's barely 
distinguishable from so many other forms that with one little change 
you simply switch to another genre--with the small *g.*

A work that employs  *organic* supernatural powers in a world that 
looks to the past is probably Fantasy. 

Remove the action to the planet Xenon, or the year 3510, and give 
the planetary inhabitants the *organic* ability to read minds and 
levitate objects and you've slipped into Science Fiction.  
Especially if you toss in a bit of hi-tech.


A *Fantasy* where the *dark forces* win, is merely a work of the 
*Horror* genre.   Interview with the Vampire?  Frankenstein? Turn of 
the Screw?  Etc. 

`Course it all depends on whose side you're on. Perhaps, like me, 
you root for the vampire. Frankenstein's monster is a victim, so I'm 
rooting for him, too.  Still, a lot on nice people snuff it and you 
can't deny being left at the end in a blasted landscape.  But, Henry 
James' little tale really is a nasty piece of work. 

Talisman, noting that her mother always warned that there is no rest 
for the wicked, and wondering if she'll ever come to be so at 
leisure as to bloom into her full measure of vice. ::sigh::










From willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid  Wed Nov  2 13:06:47 2005
From: willsonkmom at potioncat.yahoo.invalid (potioncat)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:06:47 -0000
Subject: The List -- Going Public
In-Reply-To: <dh9308+up7i@...>
Message-ID: <dkadl7+bl7p@...>

Pippin wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce Steve has asked to have  the list 
> prepared for the lexicon, with 'a nicely worded introduction.' 
> If any of the Crowd would like to help with this, please email me 
> offlist.


Kathy W:
Just took a look at the finished list...very nice! Has it been posted 
at the Lexicon yet? 







From lunalovegood at tbernhard2000.yahoo.invalid  Wed Nov  2 19:29:41 2005
From: lunalovegood at tbernhard2000.yahoo.invalid (tbernhard2000)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:29:41 -0000
Subject: Subverting the genre?
In-Reply-To: <dk8o9t+349l@...>
Message-ID: <dkb435+nn1v@...>

Barry
> If she really intends to subvert the fantasy genre she'll do the 
exact opposite. Harry loses, Voldemort wins, evil triumphs. A bit 
like the end of '1984'. That really would break the mould of the 
fantasy ethic.

dan:
Honestly, I think Rowling is not interested in subverting the genre 
at all, but rather, in subverting readers, especially the younger 
ones. The genre is all twisted and weird anyway. Rowling is composing 
a story that encourages readers to question all recieved ideas, the 
nation state and its twisted and weird political system, schools that 
continue more by self-limiting that amounts almost to intentional 
naivete (not unlike the "work ethic" itself, that means of displacing 
responsibility and freedom for the sake of some predictable grid that 
surrounds all existing), and yes the abusive way in which youth in 
much of the world are seen only as potential 
converts/soldiers/fodder/possesions, and so forth. I think Rowling 
hates mendacity. But much of the civic world is mendacity covering 
greed, corruption, and incompetance.

Yes, Rowling intends to subvert the readers understanding of the 
world. Like any artist. The genre is nothing at all.

dan






From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Thu Nov  3 15:43:47 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 15:43:47 +0000
Subject: Handbook of Psycho-magical disorders?
Message-ID: <1DED4B87-9A40-4CA8-A3BB-9295669C24E0@...>

The following manuscript was found lining an old parrot cage in a  
junk-shop. There's no clue to the author or even if it is complete.  
Members might like to keep an eye open for further fragments.

Kneasy


Twonk's Disorder  (Compulsive Spelling Disorder).

Behavioural condition in which the sufferer attempts to use magical  
spells to solve all problems, fulfill all duties and perform all  
chores. Commonest amongst post-apprentice wizards and witches and is  
considered a mild expression of self-regard or egotism. Usually self- 
limiting, though rare individual cases have been reported where this  
pattern of behaviour continues into adulthood and beyond. (But see:  
Narcissistic Auto-magiplasty.)

The transient form is usually found in association with Cuddly's  
Erythematosis (Wand Itch)  where the patient seems unable to put  
their wand in their pocket and leave it there. Thus any excuse is  
considered reason enough to draw the wand and once drawn there is an  
overwhelming temptation to use it, even for the most trivial of actions.

Duration is commonly of a few weeks or months. No treatment is  
necessary apart from a few judiciously applied counter-spells to  
demonstrate that nobody likes a smart-arse.

The chronic form, though rare, can have such serious sequelae that  
all suspected cases must be reported to the relevant authorities.  
Cases on file demonstrate that the condition progresses through  
various stages, vis:-

a) From desiring to do everything possible by magical means to  
believing that everything can be done by magical means.
b) Including re-arranging society so that those more 'worthy' run  
things.
c) Megolamania
d) Wreaking death and destruction on dissenters.
e) Deployment of WMDs (Wizards of Mass Destruction)
f) The End Of Civilisation As We Know It.

The treatment of this very serious condition is outside the scope of  
this handbook, though readers can be assured that it is radical,  
aggressive and permanent.

(Note: Twonk's Disorder - Compulsive Spelling Disorder, is not to be  
confused with Twonk's Dysfunction - Copmulsife Sppeling Diserder,  
which is something entirely different.)


Narcissistic Auto-magiplasty.

Can present in a variety of forms. Known in common parlance as  
Flobber-lips, Todger's Doom, Sad-sacs, Stork-legs, etc., but all  
coming under the general heading of "Bod-mods". In essence these are  
self-administered cosmetic modifications .

The results are invariably ludicrous and/or disabling.
The unintended consequence of the "Engorgio!" spell in Todger's Doom,  
for example, is a concomitant reduction in blood flow to the brain,  
resulting in unconsciousness and thus rendering the whole exercise  
pointless. Some have  tried to counter this by permanently adopting  
an upside-down orientation -  which is not advisable when coming in  
to land when travelling by broomstick.

In extreme cases of 'Sad-sac' (particularly when the patient also  
resorts to wearing Madam Malkin's 'Magical Miss Uplift Robe') the  
result is often a restricted field of view (Canyon Vision), as the  
patient is effectively wearing blinkers.

The compulsion to indulge in such self-modification has its genesis  
ascribed variously to skewed self-perception, a desire to be  
different, peer pressure, adolescent experimentation or thoughtless  
stupidity. Whatever the root cause corrections are time-consuming and  
may never be entirely satisfactory.

Following Dingler's observation that since all decent magical folk  
spend the vast majority of their time swathed in all-enveloping robes  
one would therefore expect concerns about body features to be minor,  
a recent study set out to examine the condition in greater detail.  
The interim results tentatively concluded that the 'body-image  
problem' was probably the result of Muggle obsessions leaking into  
the Wizarding Realm, probably through the exposure of the more  
susceptible members of society to close contact with Muggles and  
Muggle artifacts - to posters and images in public places, for example.

Certain of the more forceful elements in the political sphere have  
intimated that this is  yet another reason for eliminating Muggles as  
they're "more trouble than they're worth". Others consider this as a  
trifle extreme, and that anyway the damage has already been done.

Treatment consists of correction (where possible and if requested), a  
damn good kicking for being so daft, and if under-age the  
confiscation or severe restrictions placed on the use of a wand. Once  
a patient is of age they can do whatever they wish to themselves;  
it's their own business and they must bear the consequences.


Monopodal Vertigitis  (Yard-high Phobia).

A form of Vertigo, manifested by a compulsion to keep one foot on the  
ground when flying a broomstick. This, of course, presents  
difficulties, particularly when flying over mountains, built-up  
areas, forests, or indeed anywhere except a flat frictionless field.

At one time thought erroneously to be caused by a spell covertly cast  
by boot and shoe manufacturers to enhance sales, this distressing  
condition was brought to the attention of the wider public with the  
publication of "Getting Lower" - the memoirs of cross-country speed  
champion Reg "Stumpy" Janks. This touching account of his struggle to  
overcome his handicap, his experiments with extendable legs,   
reciprocating knees, flying blindfolded, implanted illusions of the  
ground, etc., before advancing frictional erosion eventually forced  
him to fly between the blades of grass instead of above them, has  
become an inspirational classic.

Too late, alas. As we now know, there is no treatment. In order to  
travel any  significant distance by magical means, sufferers must  
either:-

a) show Reg's fortitude
b) be bound, gagged and blindfolded and tied to the back of a broomstick
c) apparate

Now in retirement Reg still tours the country, giving inspirational  
talks at meetings of Lop-sided Anonymous, proudly exhibiting the peg- 
leg with the terminal castor wearing which he won his last two  
championship races.


Sabbat Fever

A mild hysteria usually affecting groups (up to approx. 20). Rarely  
encountered in isolated individuals. Seasonal; more frequent between  
May and September than in winter months, highest incidence around Mid- 
summer's Eve.

High recurrence. Once affected a sufferer is more likely to repeat  
the activity than not.

The afflicted feel compelled to shed their garments and uttering  
shrill cries, prance round a bonfire in the nuddy. Of rapid onset,  
invariably striking around sunset or soon afterwards, climaxing  
towards midnight, after which the group tends to fragment, some  
gravitating towards patches of concealing undergrowth, others  
(invariably lone individuals) return to their homes to kick the cat.

Sequelae tend to be few and minor, except where the cat is concerned.

Treatment.
Best administered as the fever is progressing towards its height.
Numerous onlookers should gather outside the circle of dancers to  
point and loudly jeer at the jiggly bits. Enthusiasm amongst the  
celebrants abates almost immediately and the fever rapidly subsides.





From lunalovegood at tbernhard2000.yahoo.invalid  Thu Nov  3 18:53:21 2005
From: lunalovegood at tbernhard2000.yahoo.invalid (tbernhard2000)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:53:21 -0000
Subject: Handbook of Psycho-magical disorders?
In-Reply-To: <1DED4B87-9A40-4CA8-A3BB-9295669C24E0@...>
Message-ID: <dkdmb1+434r@...>

Barry wrote:
> Twonk's Disorder (Compulsive Spelling Disorder).
> ... the patient seems unable to put their wand in their pocket and 
leave it there. Thus any excuse is considered reason enough to draw 
the wand and once drawn there is an overwhelming temptation to use 
it, even for the most trivial of actions.

This so reminds me of the Bridgeport General, a ragged aged man who 
late in his life moved so slow, and so crankily, on his corner at the 
bottom of the hill in that village, he was often taken for an 
animatronic statue imbued with Tourette's. By his oddity in raiment, 
a somewhat mysterious history in the Great War, his cussing and his 
stink, which was considerable, he achieved wide reputation. A certain 
peculiarity of his related to this found manuscript's description of 
that magical disease - the Bridgeport General had a habit of spitting 
more or less continually - passing the candy shop full of kids, 
buying chewing tobacco at the variety store, checking his empty box 
at the post office. When he decided to volunteer his time helping 
kids cross the street, however, many folks thought this role 
inappropriate. In his picture here, he can be seen weilding his stop 
sign like a tired wand
http://www.artisticedgegallery.com/details/?
artist=2&printNum=2&printId=6

dan








From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid  Sat Nov  5 21:47:20 2005
From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston))
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:47:20 -0000
Subject: Socks, Subversion, and Disney's Seven Dwarves' Names come from Voluspa
Message-ID: <dkj999+p024@...>

hg wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3406 :

<< Wouldn't it subvert the genre if the wise old
annoyingly philosophical white-bearded wizard was actually a slave? >>

Named Epictetus.

My friend Lee proposed years ago that Dumbledore was  Flamel's House
Elf, magically disguised with Flamel's permission.

Randy wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3410 :

<< Socks, Socks, Socks !!
Is that all you girls ever think about? >>

Oh, no, we think about shoes, too. *LOL*

Pippin wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3407 :

<< Subversion is Shylock's speech, it's Shakespeare making you like
the old Kate better, it's Cervantes driving his lance so firmly into
the fantasy reader's posterior that no one dared to take the genre
seriously again for hundreds of years. >>

I would have classed Don Quixote as send-up, myself.

I do not share your and Talisman's certainty that Shakespeare
*intended* the subversive readings that are found in his writing.
That's what makes a writing literature, that readers can find endless
things in it, things that the author didn't intend to put in it. There
are arguments about whether they were put in by the Muse, by the
writer's unconscious mind (which apparently has clairvoyance of all
the human past and future and near and distant), or by the reader's
projection.

<< what if Tolkien's serious minded dwarves were named like Disney's
silly ones >>

Tolkien's serious minded dwarves ARE named like Disney's silly ones.
It is well known that Tolkien drew many names from Voluspa:

"V?lusp? 10?16 contains a list of dwarves:

    9. Then sought the gods their assembly-seats,
    The holy ones, and council held,
    To find who should raise the race of dwarfs
    Out of Brimir's blood and the legs of Blain.

    10. There was Motsognir the mightiest made
    Of all the dwarfs, and Durin next;
    Many a likeness of men they made,
    The dwarfs in the earth, as Durin said.

    11. Nyi and Nithi, Northri and Suthri,
    Austri and Vestri, Althjof, Dvalin,
    Nar and Nain, Niping, Dain,
    Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Nori,
    An and Onar, Ai, Mjothvitnir,

    12. Vigg and Gandalf, Vindalf, Thrain,
    Thekk and Thorin, Thror, Vit and Lit,
    Nyr and Nyrath,
    Regin and Rathvith ? now have I told the list aright.

    13. Fili, Kili, Fundin, Nali,
    Heptifili, Hannar, Sviur,
    Frar, Hornbori, Fr?g and Loni,
    Aurvang, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.

    14. The race of the dwarfs in Dvalin's throng
    Down to Lofar the list must I tell;
    The rocks they left, and through the wet lands
    They sought a home in the fields of sand.

    15. There were Draupnir and Dolgthrasir,
    Hor, Haugspori, Hlevang, Gloin,
    Dori, Ori, Duf, Andvari,
    Skirfir, Virfir, Skafith, Ai.

    16. Alf and Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi;
    Fjalar and Frosti, Fith and Ginnar;
    So for all time shall the tale be known,
    The list of all the forbears of Lofar." 

(I copied the above from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_dwarves )

http://dontgohere.nu/poetic-edda/voluspa.htm gives the meanings of all
those names, including:

M?dsognir - 'Frenzy-seeker'
Durin - 'Sleepy'
N?i - 'New-moon'     
Nidi - 'Fading-moon'
Nordri - 'North'     
Sudri - 'South'
Austri - 'East'     
Vestri - 'West'
Althj?f - 'All-Thief'     
Dvalin - 'Dawdler'
B?vor - 'Trembler'     
B?vor - 'Grumbler'
B?mbur - 'Tubby'    
N?ri - 'Little-scrap'
?n - 'Pal'     
?nar - 'Other'
?i - 'Great-grandfather'     
Mj?dvitnir - 'Mead-seeker'
Veig - 'Wall'     
Gand?lf - 'Wand-elf'
Vind?lf - 'Wind-elf'     
Thorin - 'Daring'
Thr?r - 'Burgeoning'     
Thr?in - 'Craver'
Thekk - 'Clever'     
Lit - 'Hue'     
Vit - 'Smart'
N?r - 'Corpse'     
N?r?d - 'Cunning'
Regin - 'Mighty'     
R?dsvid - 'Counsel-wise'
F?li - 'File'     
K?li - 'Wedge'
Fundin - 'Found'     
N?li - 'Corpse'
Hepti - 'Grip'     
V?li - 'Drudge'
Hanar - 'Skilful'     
Sv?ur - 'Waner'
Fr?r - 'Famous'     
Hornbori - 'Inlet'
Fr?g - 'Wet-gravel'     
L?ni - 'Fighter'
Eikinskjaldi - 'Oaken-shield'
Lofar - 'praiser'
Aurvangar - 'wet-gravel plains' The home of the dwarfs.
J?rumvellir - 'sandy plains' The setting for Aurvangar according to
Snorri Sturluson.
Draupnir - 'Dripper'
Dolgthrasir - 'Strife-spear'
H?r - 'Grey-hair'     
Haugspori - 'Grave-treader'
Hl?vang - 'Lee-plain'     
Gl?i - 'Glow'
D?ri - 'Borer'     
?ri - 'Raver'
D?v - 'Wave'     
Andvari - 'Careful-one'
Skirvir - 'Craftsman'     
Virvir - 'Dyer'
Sk?fid - 'Crooked-fin'     
?i - 'Great-grandfather'
?lf - 'Elf'     
Yngvi - 'Lordly'
Eikinskjaldi - 'Oaken-shield'
Fjalar - 'Hider'     
Frosti - 'Frosty'
Finn - 'Finn'     
Ginnar - 'Betrayer'

BEHOLD!
Sleepy :Durin - 'Sleepy'
Grumpy :B?vor - 'Grumbler'
Bashful :B?vor - 'Trembler' 
Dopey  :Dvalin - 'Dawdler' (or :V?li - 'Drudge')
Doc :Thekk - 'Clever'  (or:Vit - 'Smart' or:N?r?d - 'Cunning' or
:R?dsvid - 'Counsel-wise')
Sneezy :Draupnir - 'Dripper'
Happy :Lofar - 'praiser'






From drednort at drednort.geo.yahoo.invalid  Sat Nov  5 23:09:24 2005
From: drednort at drednort.geo.yahoo.invalid (Shaun Hately)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:09:24 +1100
Subject: OT - I'm in the newspaper
In-Reply-To: <20051026004123.86944.qmail@...>
References: <20051025144304.28608.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <436DD654.20937.3602F04@localhost>

I'm mentioned in an article in the Melbourne Age newspaper today - 
it's also in the Sydney Morning Herald, apparently.

The text of the main article can be read at:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/drednort/51163.html

and the entire feature can be seen at:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/drednort/51217.html

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at ... | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia




From hg_skmg at hg_skmg.yahoo.invalid  Sun Nov  6 02:57:51 2005
From: hg_skmg at hg_skmg.yahoo.invalid (hg_skmg)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:57:51 -0000
Subject: A few thoughts in passing
In-Reply-To: <dhbe1s+dp6s@...>
Message-ID: <dkjrff+esgn@...>

Ginger:
Anything JKR answers will be answered, and anything else is up to my 
> imagination.  I will be able to speculate with total abandon on 
> anything she doesn't cover, which means I can go nuts in a way I 
> haven't been able to since I finished PoA...When book 7 is 
> done, I can do with JKR's world as I please, so long as it fits 
canon.

hg:
Ginger, this is by far the most positive attitude I've read regarding 
the end of the series, and I thank you for it.  The thought never 
once crossed my mind that our imaginings would be released from the 
successive limitations (from the books, interviews, website), but 
rather that it'd simply be all over.  Perhaps the end won't be so 
depressing after all.

Ginger:
> Another thought I had was about dragon's blood.  Could it have 
> healing powers?  Hagrid used a dragon steak for his black eye in 
OoP 
> as one might use a beefsteak in real life.  The twins wore dragon 
> jackets rather than plain leather, explaining that they were 
treating 
> themselves as business was so good.  It would seem that dragon is 
> more expensive that cow, so why was Hagrid using the more expensive 
> cut of meat?  Healing powers?  Was that Dragon's blood trickling 
from 
> DD's mouth?  If so, what did he intend by it?  

hg:
Now you've got my mind racing.  First off, I've been confused for 
quite some time about the different colors of dragon's blood we see: 
The steak is dripping greenish blood, but the blood on the walls in 
the Muggle house Slughorn is inhabiting is glutinous and red.  Are 
they both dragon's blood?  I've read elsewhere speculation that 
Hagrid had Common Welsh Green meat on his face -- could the 
difference of breed allow a difference in color?  I also thought 
maybe the blood dripping down Hagrid's face perhaps had a green 
iridescence, like a tuna steak.  (Sheesh, what revolting images.)  Of 
course, it's not nearly as fun to come up with either such reasonable 
explanation; I'd rather suppose that Slughorn was full of it and it 
wasn't dragon's blood at all, and for some reason Dumbledore didn't 
call him on it.  
But nonetheless, there's Hagrid nursing his wounds with dragon meat.  
Perhaps one of the uses of dragon's blood is indeed for healing 
purposes.  You bring up the jackets -- the twins, soon after being 
seen wearing them, are developing Shield Cloaks -- I wonder if 
there's any connection.
Then, finally, I have long thought the blood on Dumbledore's mouth 
was the same dusty blood Slughorn rebottled in chapter 4.  Surely 
there's a better reason for this action than to demonstrate his 
thriftiness.  

Ginger:
> What I think would be cool (which means that she probably will come 
> up with something cooler) would be for Harry to get notes via owl 
> with messages like "Go to Godric's Hollow and look at the base of 
the 
> elm tree in the back yard.  Sincerely, your friend who likes 
> raspberry jam."  We'd be wondering all book long if DD is still 
> alive, or if it was someone like Snape (if he's good) using the jam 
> as a password.  Either it could be DD, who faked his death, finally 
> having time to go hunt the horcruces unhindered, or it could be 
> Snape, who has found out about them by Legilimancing LV and is 
> passing on the info, or something else I haven't thought of yet. 

hg:
Love this idea.  There, too, was something that aggravatingly didn't 
return in HBP, the jam password.  This train of thought interests me 
because it's a clean way of structuring Harry's journey.  Might I add 
that if he did indeed fake it, perhaps he thought he gave Harry 
enough info to find the ones he knew about, leaving him free to wait 
for Voldemort to unwittingly direct him to the unknown Horcrux, which 
I think is almost certainly at Hogwarts.

hg.






From stevejjen at ariadnemajic.yahoo.invalid  Sun Nov  6 17:34:28 2005
From: stevejjen at ariadnemajic.yahoo.invalid (Jen Reese)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:34:28 -0000
Subject: 'Handwritten' notes in the books  (Re: A few thoughts in passing)
In-Reply-To: <dkjrff+esgn@...>
Message-ID: <dkler4+ar2p@...>

> Ginger:
> > What I think would be cool (which means that she probably will
> > come up with something cooler) would be for Harry to get notes
> > via owl with messages like "Go to Godric's Hollow and look at
> > the base of the elm tree in the back yard.  Sincerely, your
> > friend who likes raspberry jam."  We'd be wondering all book
> > long if DD is still alive, or if it was someone like Snape (if
> > he's good) using the jam as a password.  

Jen: Ah, the perfect opportunity to bring up something I'm curious 
about. I'm not sure how the Bloosmbury editions work when a 
handwritten letter comes to Harry, but in the Scholatic, we see a 
different typeface for each character. So far Hagrd, Sirius, and 
Dumbeldore have a unique 'handwriting' that Harry mentions 
recognizing. And Snape's writing is added in HBP.

Then is HBP, suddenly none of Dumbledore's notes are handwritten. Is 
it the 'dead' hand? A plot intrigue? He can write well enough to 
sign his name, but not the entire note. 


Jen







From talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov  7 07:06:45 2005
From: talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid (Talisman)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 07:06:45 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
Message-ID: <dkmue5+lasg@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "carolynwhite2"
<carolynwhite2 at a...> wrote:
> Jane, as always, knew all about your sort:

> 'I am afraid that the pleasantness of an employment does not
always evince its propriety.'
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3414

Talisman:
Hang propriety.

Carolyn cont:
> [Speaking of Kneasy's 1984 ending quip] I wonder what ending would
suit the mood of the first decade of the 21st century? <snip
Carolyn's lighthearted list of modern miseries>

Carolyn cont:
> So the ingredients are all there. Now, she says she isn't writing
in the fantasy genre, just for herself.

Talisman:
Eeeeh. She said she's not a fan and didn't initially realize that
she was writing fantasy. I think she's acknowledged the awful truth,
since. Now she just insists that she is subverting the genre. The
question remains: what does she think fantasy literature does--as
opposed to what she expects HP to do?

Her claims not to be a fan of fantasy deserve a second look. I
considered this for awhile the other night, read quite a few
interview comments, and have decided that she's either
schizophrenic, disingenuous, or both.

With regard to *fantasy* per se, the comment is at the least
hyperbole and/or a parsing of the *meaning* of fantasy to suit her
purposes.

More likely, she just wanted to use the word *subversive* to induce
readers to take another look at her books as subversive works,
thereby possibly managing to see the manner in which they truly are,
since most readers are missing it. We can talk more about that
later, if anybody cares. (I'm already bored with it.)

In any event, the changes to be achieved in this quest
(romance)/bildungsroman/mystery are not exterior. The way of the
world is nothing new, and, at the end of Book 7, and it will remain
as it has always been--for the reader--and for Harry.

The transformations must be interior.

N.B.
In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3417,
tbernhard2000 opined:
>The genre is nothing at all.

Talisman:
This is why genre matters, Dan. Like grammar, philosophy, and the
Prime Meridian, it helps us to understand and communicate meaning.
I'll take your point-- if I understand it correctly--that the
artist is not limited to/by conventions. Nonetheless, an art that
cannot be communicated is worthless. Genre, like all constructs,
measurements, and perspectives is our tool, not our cage. But
without the right tools, we can't get the job done.

This, potioncat and Catlady, is one of the reasons why it is
important to recognize the series as Romance, albeit nontraditional,
as this genre points to the palpable subtext, the interior arena,
and the ultimate transformation.

Back to Carolyn's search for the ideal calamity to end the series:
I don't think current events will play an important role--even if
she chooses to give a small nod in that direction.

Sorry about any apocalyptic aspirations.

I quite expect that Rowling's early message about *the need to go
on fighting, against the odds,* will hold the day.

If you recall, in PS/SS Harry wonders about Voldemort and says:

*I mean, he hasn't gone, has he?*

DD responds:

*No, Harry, he has not. ...Nevertheless, Harry, while you may only
have delayed his return to power, it will merely take someone else
who is prepared to fight what seems a losing battle next time--and
if he is delayed again, and again, why, he may never return to
power.* (SS 298)

Compare this to Rowling's comments in 2003:

Nevertheless, I've always believed that Harry Potter books are
highly moral. I wanted to portray the ambiguity of a society where
intolerance, cruelty, hypocrisy and corruption are frequent, so I
could better show how heroic it can be, no matter what your age is,
fighting in a battle that will never be won.
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2003/1025-princeasturias-
speech.htm

That's the point. Harry's battle can never be won. His victory is
to carry on the good fight. This is her call to readers, as well:
*Fight the losing battle.* You will never defeat intolerance,
cruelty, hypocrisy, and corruption, etc., but don't yield to them
yourself, and take a stand against them wherever you find them. [Cue
the swelling background music.]

The surface-level implication is that Voldemort will never be
entirely destroyed.

Sure, there are plenty of parochial evil-doers in the WW, but they
just can't fill Voldie's shoes--at least metaphorically. Not only
has Harry done a pretty good job of handling them so far, but I
expect he will be even more well equipped to resist them once he
*comes of age* and no longer has to defer to guardians and
professors, or worry about being expelled or charged with under-aged
magic.

The Dursleys, Lockharts, Malfoys, and Umbridges of the world will
get short treatment from an actualized Harry. Even the Fudges,
Scrimgeors, and Skeeters will think twice. It's Voldemort, really,
who is left to represent that smoldering, unfathomable, evil-
incarnate that threatens from all sides, including the interior.
Please don't giggle.

If we're going to work within Rowling's metaphysical landscape,
we'll need to keep *Old Tom* around.

So, yeah, tiresome as it is, I continue to think that Harry is a Hx.
(It's not my fault, blame Rowling.) Not one that Voldemort made;
one that DD made. All in that cataclysmic night at Godric's
Hollow. Voldemort did the murder, but DD cast the spell.

Folks, including Voldemort, will figure this out over the course of
Book 7. Harry will have managed to destroy all the other Hxes,
therefore knowledge of this situation will actually stay Voldemort'
s hand. He won't want to destroy the last safeguard of his
immortality until he can re-establish a new backup system.

Unfortunately for the Dark Lord, before he can make Harry redundant,
he will either be chased into the hinterlands, or blasted back to
vapor--take your pick--it's all one. This will make the old boy
even more dependant on his last bit of soul insurance, a fact which
will continue to act as a buffer for Harry in coming years.

Harry will still be able to use the scar-link to sense where and
when Voldemort threatens a comeback, and he'll always have a head-
start because Voldemort will need to re-entrench himself before he
can move to destroy Harry.

The metaphor is perfect. Gentle reader, you may not be able to
eradicate hypocrites, nasty people, and corrupt institutions, they
are part of the human landscape. But, you can protect the world
against the potential evil that resides within you.

Only you can sense the evil rising within, and only you can keep it
a bay; let it get a toe-hold, and it will destroy you; fight it--
again and again--and it may never gain power. But, as long as you
live, your struggles will remain a battle that cannot be won; a
battle that needs to be fought every day.

Unless, of course, you relocate to the Welsh Marches and set in a
good supply of gin. Then you are free to lie upon your couch,
resplendent in your vices.

Why would DD do such a thing? (People always ask *why,* though
really it's just a way of trying to make you prove more, when they
can't even refute what you've got.) Well, it relates to the
recent discussion of Harry's potential for becoming the next Dark
Lord, because that is *one* of the components that DD has been
managing.

This is part (though only part) of why Harry was placed with a
family that would repress magic. It's why DD, himself, is the
author of most of the laws regarding underage magic. It's why the
Ministry, apparently with DD's encouragement, disallows other
magical people to live in the Little Whinging area, making it easier
to monitor magical usage (OoP 143). It's *part* of why DD has his
own secret surveillance system in place.

This understanding illuminates the Draco/Nott conversation, at
Chez Malfoy, wherein they exchange * all sorts of stories that the
Death Eaters tell about how this baby boy survived the Dark Lord's
attack.*
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=5

Understanding that the DE's looked to Harry as a new leader
explains Draco's early attempt at friendship. It explains why the
Malfoys' attitude changed to anger at Harry's obvious allegiance
with DD. It explains Lucius' subsequent attempts to destroy, first
DD & the Weasleys in Book 2; then Harry, in Book 3.

There is absolutely no evidence of such attempts prior to Harry
evincing his alignment.

If Harry had been raised as a celebrity and had never been
threatened by Voldemort (for DD is the one who brought the rascal
back, time and again), he may well have developed into an arrogant
Dark Lord.

In addition to the many *special lessons* he has arranged for Harry
every year, DD engineered Harry's childhood struggles; his early
allegiance with Hagrid; DD's own *special friendship* with Harry
(Cf. the *hands off* treatment of Tom Riddle); and, the early 
conflict with Voldemort (in which we see that Voldie would have 
liked to recruit the Chosen One, too). All of these elements worked 
to orient Harry to the side of *light.*

When Harry discovers that he is Voldemort's tether to the world, he
will be horrified. (Cf. his reaction to being the snake, OoP 492)

That's the *big thing* for which Rowling has been preparing Harry,
over the course of the series.

Rowling:

Also, it will take 7 books to get Harry to the point where he has to
face, um I can't say. But in Book 7, you know, there's a big
climax coming here and it will take that many books to get him
there.
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-
connectiontransc.html

That, some more bad stuff about James, and maybe even getting wise
to DD.

And, don't let anyone come blibbering to me about how much DD hated
Hxes.

1. He did the spell, not the murder. Though we know he bears
culpability for Godric's Hollow, as well.

2. The whole distinction between Dark Arts and good magic is a bunch
of hooey. Nothing is inherently bad or good, it's all about how
it's used. That's why Urquhart Rackharrow is honored with a
portrait at St. Mungo's, recognizing him as the inventor of *the
entrail expelling curse;* it's why bad guys use tickling and
dancing spells; and, why Hermione, having taken an attitude toward
the HBP, is foolish enough to ascribe fault to spells that merely
allow people to have private conversations. Nonsense.

3. Each book reverses the one before it. Six says DD hated Hxes,
Seven will show him using one. There is also a reversal pattern
cross series: in this case Seven to One; in One we found that LV was
in Quirrell, in Seven we'll find he's in Harry. Quirrell died,
Harry will live, etc.

4. That's the prophecy, and it applies to everyone.

It's the little devil in you, darlin'.

By recognizing and being vigilant against the Dark Lord [i.e. fear ,
hatred, and all their progeny] in himself, Harry will keep to the
side of light.

So, there it is: everybody lives. Rather a disappointment, I know.
Now we must pin our hopes on collateral damage. The stinking
carcasses of the Dursleys, sizzling on the smoldering remains of
Privet Drive, etc.

And then, of course, there is Snape. The only one who really
matters. : )

Talisman, for the Fellowship of the D.U.S.T. (Dumbledore Undercover
Surveillance Team) pseudo-posthumous division.

PS
The original of this post also included a lengthy response to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3420, on which I 
am sleeping, under the terms of my Beta forbearance policy. Should
I decide to post it, I want it clarified that it was written before
I went back online and saw Shaun's *article.* Any similarities in
analogy must be attributed to a convenient fingering of the same
clich?s. (Why my accent ague *e* has transformed into kanji, is 
anyone's guess.)

PPS
In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3395, minxy
Carolyn wrote:

>The truly alarming thought is that what she is really attempting is
>a cross between Jane Austen, Shakespeare and Agatha Christie. Hm.

Talisman:
Someone needs an ass-whooping. I'm feeling the Beta program
slipping away.....

PPS
In http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/message/3418, Kneasy
shared some bird-dropping be-speckled matter with us.

Talisman:
We'll not inquire as to *why* you were sniffing around old bird
cages. Let's just encourage you to keep up the good work, and then
get your volume of magical maladies published. Maybe Carolyn can
hook you up with someone.

Let's face it, it's your bailiwick. You can most likely design an
entire magical health system. Must reading for any waiting room.

No stepping on the Rowling toes, but definitely timely in terms of
public tastes.

Royalties would make a nice annuity for Igor. He's been heating
your boiled oil for years, `bout time you showed some gratitude.



















From ewetoo at ewe2_au.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov  7 07:47:03 2005
From: ewetoo at ewe2_au.yahoo.invalid (ewe2)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:47:03 +1100
Subject: [the_old_crowd] How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkmue5+lasg@...>
References: <dkmue5+lasg@...>
Message-ID: <20051107074703.GB2916@...>

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 07:06:45AM -0000, Talisman wrote:

(massive snips all round)

> If we're going to work within Rowling's metaphysical landscape,
> we'll need to keep *Old Tom* around.

Old Charlie stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going no way to slow
down.

This post is so utterly convincing it reminds me of the End of History as
Sellers and Yeatman described coming up to date with the American superpower.
It was of course a double-edged joke, as history never ends but what's the
point in history when you can see it being repeated badly.

And so with Hx Harry and his internal Devil. Warner Bros will weep with joy,
finally they have a franchise to whip Disney's butt with, if they can think of
enough sufficiently cash-worthy ventures. Harry Potter And the Fiftheenth
Revision ad nauseam.

Barry, sign the contract with Warner and get on with it. Give us *something*
in this universe of our own before they build the themepark...

-- 
Just because we look like sheep doesn't mean we aren't penguins.



From talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov  7 08:18:45 2005
From: talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid (Talisman)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:18:45 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <20051107074703.GB2916@...>
Message-ID: <dkn2l5+hv2j@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, ewe2 <ewetoo at g...> wrote:
>Snip of delightful verbiage<

Ewe Darling. Allow me to leap upon this opportunity to tell you what a 
devastatingly charming penguin-in-sheep's-clothing you really are. I'll 
be glowing all week.

Talisman :)








From ewetoo at ewe2_au.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov  7 08:56:10 2005
From: ewetoo at ewe2_au.yahoo.invalid (ewe2)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 19:56:10 +1100
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkn2l5+hv2j@...>
References: <20051107074703.GB2916@...> <dkn2l5+hv2j@...>
Message-ID: <20051107085610.GC2916@...>

On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 08:18:45AM -0000, Talisman wrote:

> Ewe Darling. Allow me to leap upon this opportunity to tell you what a 
> devastatingly charming penguin-in-sheep's-clothing you really are. I'll 
> be glowing all week.
> 
> Talisman :)

*blush* I thank you. I've been sitting on an IRC channel where they have the
nerve to regard my penguinistic leanings as wacko, and it's been a little
ego-bruising...mind you, the wacko comment came from a lawyer-in-training, so
I must be doing something right :) Trouble is, the kids of today take
themselves so seriously they never notice just how hilarious we oldies find
them hehe.

But seriously, like all good theories, it fits enough of the possibilities
that something very like it must be Her plan. I too noticed the oddity of the
comments about fantasy, because writers just don't throw out a good idea
because it's genre-related, that makes it more of a challenge. I'm no writer,
though, I don't have that drive :)

ewe2.

-- 
Just because we look like sheep doesn't mean we aren't penguins.



From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov  7 11:36:04 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:36:04 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkmue5+lasg@...>
Message-ID: <dkne74+a2id@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457 at y...> wrote:
>
> 
> Compare this to Rowling's comments in 2003:
> 
> Nevertheless, I've always believed that Harry Potter books are
> highly moral. I wanted to portray the ambiguity of a society where
> intolerance, cruelty, hypocrisy and corruption are frequent, so I
> could better show how heroic it can be, no matter what your age is,
> fighting in a battle that will never be won.
> http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2003/1025-princeasturias-
> speech.htm
> 
> That's the point. Harry's battle can never be won. His victory is
> to carry on the good fight. This is her call to readers, as well:
> *Fight the losing battle.* You will never defeat intolerance,
> cruelty, hypocrisy, and corruption, etc., but don't yield to them
> yourself, and take a stand against them wherever you find them. [Cue
> the swelling background music.]
> 
> The surface-level implication is that Voldemort will never be
> entirely destroyed.
> 

Mph. 
Brief comment on one part of your post. No time for more, some creep 
has just dumped a load of work into my mail box. Some people have
no consideration for the feelings of idle hedonists. 
I lean towards a slightly different closure.
Voldemort  will be defeated but evil won't be.
Just as Voldy rose after the the downfall of  Grindelwald, so too he will
be followed by a successor. But he (or she - Bella would do nicely IMO)
will not be the concern of this series of books - in the final chapter 
there'll be a moralising old fart vapouring on that despite all the struggle
and sacrifice the world will never be free of, nor safe from, evil and that 
eternal vigilance is the price of whatever.

This sort of loops back to previous whitterings on Possession Theory,
that evil can be described or considered as a damn-near immortal entity
that will insinuate itself into the welcoming or susceptible mind. Tying it 
back to old Sally would be nice and not entirely unexpected - there's
quite a lot we haven't been told about what the Founders got up to. 

As to who'll be the next nasty - that's up for grabs and may not even be
hinted at - unless it's Harry. Which would be entertaining. But if Jo is in
the business of history repeating itself - Tom left school at roughly the
time that Grindlewald got creamed - so someone now at Hogwarts would
be a good bet - young Malfoy perhaps? He's already well down the rocky 
road to moral degeneracy, a couple of nights camped out in the Chamber
and who knows what he'd be like. After all, Tom was not much more than
just a vicious little shit before he dropped in to pay his respects, wasn't he? 


> We'll not inquire as to *why* you were sniffing around old bird
> cages. Let's just encourage you to keep up the good work, and then
> get your volume of magical maladies published. Maybe Carolyn can
> hook you up with someone.
> 
> Let's face it, it's your bailiwick. You can most likely design an
> entire magical health system. Must reading for any waiting room.
> 
> No stepping on the Rowling toes, but definitely timely in terms of
> public tastes.
> 
> Royalties would make a nice annuity for Igor. He's been heating
> your boiled oil for years, `bout time you showed some gratitude.
>

Kneasy loves junk shops - always the possibility that you may find
something interesting - a cunning device for decapitating poachers, a
man-trap that only needs a drop of oil, really useful for when I invite
the local children to play hide-and-seek in my garden.

If 'magical maladies' is to go further it will take time - it's hard work.
Igor isn't much help, I'm afraid. He's very depressed about the quality
of the local maidens; hardly worth raiding the village according to him.
Ah, well. I'll have to get him a bus-pass so he can widen his horizons. 






From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov  7 23:44:54 2005
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 23:44:54 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkmue5+lasg@...>
Message-ID: <dkootm+i3an@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457 at y...> 
wrote:

Back to Carolyn's search for the ideal calamity to end the series:
I don't think current events will play an important role--even if
she chooses to give a small nod in that direction.

Sorry about any apocalyptic aspirations.

MinxyC responds:
No you twit, I wasn't offering an apocalyptic menu at all. If 
anything the reverse. The depressing list was a descriptor of the 
world as it is. My point was what kind of ending would be believable 
given that backdrop and that she didn't think she was writing 
traditional (escapist) fantasy. 

That quote of hers that you picked out with its emphasis on 
the 'battle that will never be won' I think reinforces my prediction -
 a heroic death that doesn't change much, but makes some kind of 
point about courage and bravery. Le Carre's did it better with 'The 
Honourable Schoolboy', but it's a well-worn groove.

As you say:
'[Cue the swelling background music.]'

T:
So, yeah, tiresome as it is, I continue to think that Harry is a Hx.
(It's not my fault, blame Rowling.) Not one that Voldemort made;
one that DD made. All in that cataclysmic night at Godric's
Hollow. Voldemort did the murder, but DD cast the spell.

C:
A minor quibble, but how did DD get in there in time? We are supposed 
to be suspending belief and pretending that he too doesn't know where 
GH is whilst the Fidelius is in place. Is your theory that he was 
hanging about outside, having been brought there by spies various 
[Peter, Lupin, Snape etc]? Or is this a remote-control spell, 
designed to detonate anytime V attacked Harrykins?

T:
When Harry discovers that he is Voldemort's tether to the world, he
will be horrified. (Cf. his reaction to being the snake, OoP 492)

That's the *big thing* for which Rowling has been preparing Harry,
over the course of the series.

C:
So, Harry eventually dies Aragorn-style (another book she claims 
never to have read), giving Voldemort his chance to come back in the 
future? He could give Evil Overlord tip #92 a go if the wait seems 
interminable:

'If I ever talk to the hero on the phone, I will not taunt him. 
Instead I will say that his dogged perseverance has given me a new 
insight on the futility of my evil ways and that if he leaves me 
alone for a few months of quiet contemplation I will likely return to 
the path of righteousness. (Heroes are incredibly gullible in this 
regard).

T:
So, there it is: everybody lives. Rather a disappointment, I know.
Now we must pin our hopes on collateral damage. The stinking
carcasses of the Dursleys, sizzling on the smoldering remains of
Privet Drive, etc.

C:
::oh no::
Does this mean the ghastly Ginny will be nobly supporting Harry in 
this selfless role, But Never Actually Marry Him? Yuck. She'll 
definitely need to be deaded in the final battle.

Just trying to think through how the Flamel story fits into this 
distressingly dull ending. Was DD experimenting with the 
Philosopher's Stone and Elixir of Life to keep himself alive to fight 
Voldie in the early days, before Harry was born or even prophesised?

DD does seem to have needed to test whether Harry has some of 
Voldemort in him - evidently he wasn't sure for years whether his 
spell worked, if he did cast one. I wonder if the forced-destruction 
of the Philosopher's stone and agreed death of Flamel made him crank 
up his plans for Weapon!Harry? IIRC, he didn't start testing (or 
commenting on) the scar-connection before PoA. No doubt someone will 
correct me if I'm wrong here.

Kneasy:
As to who'll be the next nasty - that's up for grabs and may not even 
be hinted at - unless it's Harry. Which would be entertaining. But if 
Jo is in the business of history repeating itself ...

C:
I would have thought it had to be a child not yet born in that case. 
How about Ron & Hermione's eldest? Or at the very least, a son of 
Percy Weasley?

T:
Someone needs an ass-whooping. I'm feeling the Beta program
slipping away.....

C:
I see nothing more likely than a new author incorporating bits of her 
favourite writers' styles/themes all over the place, unconsciously 
even. Bits of an Austen-esque mistaken-motives love triangle; some 
Shakespearian hubble bubble toil and trouble with portenteous 
destiny; and a wicked detective sub-plot or two running throughout. 
Don't think she'd give a damn. It's her story.
<dives for cover>

Kneasy:
Igor isn't much help, I'm afraid. He's very depressed about the 
quality of the local maidens; hardly worth raiding the village 
according to him. Ah, well. I'll have to get him a bus-pass so he can 
widen his horizons.

C:
Have you heard about this new hostess service Meals on Wheels are 
offering? It's going down very well with the crumblies apparently. 
Gives a whole new meaning to Help the Aged.

Carolyn
Enjoying the thought of presenting a Kneasy publishing proposal to 
her current company.





















From kumayama at kumayama.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov  8 03:53:18 2005
From: kumayama at kumayama.yahoo.invalid (Lyn J. Mangiameli)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 03:53:18 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkne74+a2id@...>
Message-ID: <dkp7fe+dls3@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" <arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
>
> Voldemort  will be defeated but evil won't be.
> Just as Voldy rose after the the downfall of  Grindelwald, so too he will
> be followed by a successor. 

<snip> 
> This sort of loops back to previous whitterings on Possession Theory,
> that evil can be described or considered as a damn-near immortal entity
> that will insinuate itself into the welcoming or susceptible mind. Tying it 
> back to old Sally would be nice and not entirely unexpected - there's
> quite a lot we haven't been told about what the Founders got up to. 
> 
> As to who'll be the next nasty - that's up for grabs and may not even be
> hinted at - unless it's Harry. Which would be entertaining. But if Jo is in
> the business of history repeating itself - Tom left school at roughly the
> time that Grindlewald got creamed - so someone now at Hogwarts would
> be a good bet - young Malfoy perhaps? He's already well down the rocky 
> road to moral degeneracy, a couple of nights camped out in the Chamber
> and who knows what he'd be like. After all, Tom was not much more than
> just a vicious little shit before he dropped in to pay his respects, wasn't he? 
> 
> 
Ah, Kneasy, I again follow in your footsteps. Reading Talisman's most enjoyable essay, I 
had much the same reaction: Possession Theory is the cosmology which underpines all 
events, and Talisman just reported some of the specific workings. 

Of course, as you know, I think the evil force preceeds Sally. The striking think, to me, is 
that Sally didn't appear to start out bad. He was the special friend of Griffyndor and started 
out (and to a great extent remains) a respected school founder. Sally changed, he almost 
surely made a Faustian bargain, perhaps in his desire to protect and strengthen the hand 
of his magical bretheren. 

Tom may have started out largely bad, but I suspect he too was offered a Faustian deal. He 
took it, to strengthen himself, but perhaps the superficial explanation was again to 
strengthen those of magical blood. 

Harry has already been offered one such deal, by LV in exchange for the Stone. Perhaps he 
will be offered another, this time to strengthen the failing fortunes of his magical friends. 
And yes, I think Talisman is right that at least one major repository of the evil force is 
Harry himself.

So yes, there can be no final end to the evil, and it has to reside somewhere if not in Tom 
(and Harry). How fitting that Harry should have to go forward in life battling and bottling a 
piece of the evil within himself, so that it can't move on to another. It will require a lifetime 
of strength, until the piece can be transferred to another who becomes ready to assume 
the same burden.

Just some thoughts 






From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov  8 15:31:56 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 15:31:56 +0000
Subject: A couple more maladies
Message-ID: <1CB8BBD5-9AE1-4406-A720-A731C88A0029@...>

 >
 > Carolyn
 > Enjoying the thought of presenting a Kneasy publishing proposal to
 > her current company.
 >

Not advisable, I think.
There are aspects of knowledge where it is not wise to delve too  
deeply lest the nameless horror be awakened. The public deserves  
protection.
Besides, they'd never fork out the necessarily enormous advance  
required to top up my wine cellar.

No matter.
I've managed to piece together further fragments found in that  
birdcage. The junk shop  owner hinted that there were more bits of  
paper stuffed into some of the items making up this job lot from a  
house-clearance.


Parvo Lycanthropus.

This canine infection is contracted by  werewolves in their  
wanderings at full moon and the symptoms are typically consistent  
with those found in the average domestic dog, though only while the  
sufferer is in lupine mode, the virus becoming cryptic and  
intractable once the patient reverts to human form, though he still  
may suffer from loss of appetite, lethargy, GI upsets, etc.

Therefore any treatment must necessarily be administered to a  
mindless, ravening  monster intent on ripping out the throats of  
those attempting to alleviate the condition. This requires committed  
CoMC specialists to show immense dedication and bravery and since  
there are so few selfless individuals with these attributes,  
compulsory participation is required of all Ministry CoMC personnel  
on the principle that if you want a pension you're going to have to  
earn it.

Every full moon teams of these specialists (Parvo Patrols), heavily  
armoured and liberally supplied with nets, can be found nervously  
responding to reports of atypical lycanthropic activity. (Note:  
Magically mediated stunning or immobility is  contra-indicated.  
Inserting the medicament down the throat of a patient in these states  
triggers the 'gag' reflex, resulting in choking or expulsion of the  
preparation.)

Having cornered and restrained the patient, prised open the jaws and  
settled any remaining argument as to whose turn it is to stuff the  
nostrum past fangs the size of bananas and down the target gullet  
while being assailed by baleful blood-shot yellow eyes and halitosis  
that would stun a jarvey, the medication is eventually carefully  
administered and the team retreat, leaving the patient still  
restrained. Even trained wizards have a marked reluctance to untie an  
enraged werewolf. 'The patient can untie himself come morning' being  
the considered opinion of those concerned.

It is known that in the Muggle community there are preventative  
measures (referred to as vaccines) that greatly reduce the incidence  
and severity of this infection. However, the probably extreme  
reaction of a werewolf to someone approaching whilst apparently armed  
with a silver spike are too dreadful to contemplate and no wizard  
could be induced to attempt it. Instead it is hoped that the Muggle  
preventative programme will reduce the number of possible sources of  
infection, thus eventually lowering the incidence of transmission to  
the lycanthropic community.


Affective Wand Syndrome.

That the majority of wands are constructed from a magical core with  
an outer sheathing of wood - usually hard-wood, ash, oak, sycamore,  
etc. is universally known. IWD has been reported among wielders of  
such wands, though it  is extremely rare.

Soft-wood wands are a different matter. Soft-woods are prone to  
producing splinters, and these splinters, being from wood in close  
association with an intensely magical core, also become imbued with  
magical properties. This phenomenon is known as PMA (Passive Magical  
Absorption). Thus splinters unexpectedly penetrating the skin can  
give rise to a range of minor, though irritating, conditions.

Large splinters are not normally a problem, being easily sensed and  
quickly extracted. Very small splinters, on the other hand, may  
penetrate unnoticed.

These will produce symptoms that will vary according to the infective  
wood, the absorbed magic having the effect of magnifying certain  
characteristics associated with that particular tree and transferring  
these to the wand owner.

Thus if a patient presents complaining of an infestation of red  
squirrels, the healer can be certain that a pine wand is the proximal  
cause. Similarly, if it is found that the patient has brown and white  
birds with a raucous call nesting behind his ears, one can be assured  
there's a cactus wand involved; being stalked by a large black and  
white bear-like creature is indicative of bamboo, and so on.

Treatment consists of a modified "Accio!" spell followed by bed-rest  
in a woodpecker-free environment. Recovery is usually total, though  
to prevent recurrence a change of wand is advised.



From carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid  Wed Nov  9 11:59:18 2005
From: carolynwhite2 at carolynwhite2.yahoo.invalid (carolynwhite2)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:59:18 -0000
Subject: A couple more maladies
In-Reply-To: <1CB8BBD5-9AE1-4406-A720-A731C88A0029@...>
Message-ID: <dksoam+ii9j@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
>
>  >
>  > Carolyn
>  > Enjoying the thought of presenting a Kneasy publishing proposal 
to
>  > her current company.
>  >
> 
> Not advisable, I think.
> There are aspects of knowledge where it is not wise to delve too  
> deeply lest the nameless horror be awakened. The public deserves  
> protection.
> Besides, they'd never fork out the necessarily enormous advance  
> required to top up my wine cellar.
> 

I can see it now: 

'Standardising Perversion: Best Practice Advice for Maximum Amusement'

Interim Report of the Shropshire Standing Committee of Old Farts, 
Curmudgeons and Arthritic Transylvanian Hunchbacks

Can't wait. The account will be opened at Berry Bros today.








From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Wed Nov  9 16:01:57 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:01:57 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkp7fe+dls3@...>
Message-ID: <dkt6hl+q7rq@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Lyn J. Mangiameli" <kumayama at e...> wrote:
>
> Ah, Kneasy, I again follow in your footsteps. Reading Talisman's 
> most enjoyable essay, I had much the same reaction: Possession 
> Theory is the cosmology which underpines all events, and 
> Talisman just reported some of the specific workings. 
> 
> Of course, as you know, I think the evil force preceeds Sally. The 
> striking think, to me, is that Sally didn't appear to start out bad. 
> He was the special friend of Griffyndor and started out (and to a 
> great extent remains) a respected school founder. Sally changed, 
> he almost surely made a Faustian bargain, perhaps in his desire
> to protect and strengthen the hand of his magical bretheren. 

Oh, for sure old Sal wasn't the origin of evil,  but he may have been
the first really powerful wizard in the HP WW historical timeline to
become corrupted.

> 
> Tom may have started out largely bad, but I suspect he too was 
> offered a Faustian deal. He took it, to strengthen himself, but 
> perhaps the superficial explanation was again to strengthen those 
> of magical blood. 
> 

Um. I'm not convinced that Tom gave a toss about anybody besides
Tom, especially once his misconceptions about his antecedents were
straightened out. That he did a deal is a good working hypothesis,
though I'm less sure that Sally did.

Sal was tempted, IMO -  by the possibility of immortality. There're
ennough references to it throughout the books to make it a
reasonable motivation. He only partly succeeded - his spirit, persona
or whatever you want to call it did become effectively immortal, not
so his body. He became a disembodied entity, as exemplified by 
Vapour!Mort - the potential for irresistible power is there, but it
can't work properly until it gets a body. Better still, an immortal body,
then he'd really have the world by the tail. 

Sal disappears, nobody knows what happened to him, or if they do
they ain't saying. But there's his very own secret Chamber, reputed
to house a monster. Well, the Basilisk qualifies as a monster, but so
in a different way would  the  Sally!Entity, which hangs around,
twiddling its non-existent thumbs, waiting for someone to come
along and *finish Slytherin's noble work*. Not, I contend, crunching
Muggles and half-bloods, but achieving immortality.

Enter Tom. A deal is struck; Tom's body houses Sally's powers and
off they go - to what? To search for immortality for the body. He/they
still haven't quite managed it, there'll be an Achilles heel somewhere,
and Voldy's dentition will chatter in the dust. The essence-of-evil spirit 
will survive and there'll be lots of moralising about no-one being born
evil, temptation, making choices, etc. Or maybe they'll find a way of
imprisioning it, a la the Genie in the Bottle. 

Those of a religious bent generally concentrate on the New Testament 
for their parallels; me, I see no problem in going back to the Old - 
The Fall. It's what started all the trouble in the first place, if you believe
that sort of thing. Seem to recall a serpent played a major role in that
one too.









From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid  Wed Nov  9 20:52:21 2005
From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 20:52:21 -0000
Subject: OT Re: The List -- Going Public
In-Reply-To: <dkadl7+bl7p@...>
Message-ID: <dktni5+gkgl@...>


 
> Kathy W:
> Just took a look at the finished list...very nice! Has it been posted 
> at the Lexicon yet?
>

Pippin:
I just posted it off to Steve a minute or two ago. Some real life stuff has kept 
me busy lately, I'm afraid.
Pippin






From gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid  Sun Nov 13 20:26:15 2005
From: gbannister10 at geoff_bannister.yahoo.invalid (Geoff Bannister)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:26:15 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkt6hl+q7rq@...>
Message-ID: <dl87h7+f8ts@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Barry Arrowsmith" 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:

Kneasy:
> Those of a religious bent generally concentrate on the New Testament 
> for their parallels; me, I see no problem in going back to the Old - 
> The Fall. It's what started all the trouble in the first place, if 
you believe
> that sort of thing. Seem to recall a serpent played a major role in 
that
> one too.

Geoff:
Well, I'm not bent or religious - but I am an evangelical Christian and 
quite agree with your point, as any Christian would that the problem 
started at the Fall.

Evil has been around almost since the beginning because of the 
overweening pride of Lucifer to consider himself equal or greater than 
God. And it is often his followers who most obviously do the damage.

It is interesting that fiction often picks up on the same themes; for 
example in "The Silmarillion", Melkor challenges Eru and falls from 
grace to become Morgoth and it is his underling, Sauron, who is 
creating the most havoc in Middle-Earth during the currency of LOTR.  

Voldemort is only one new manifestation of the Dark side. Doubtless 
when he is overcome, there will be a future Dark Lord for future 
generations to contend with.






From spotthedungbeetle at dungrollin.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov 15 13:59:29 2005
From: spotthedungbeetle at dungrollin.yahoo.invalid (dungrollin)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:59:29 -0000
Subject: Muggle-Baiting and Magizoology
Message-ID: <dlcpk1+bpro@...>

Having not realised that this was an acceptable forum for such 
articles, Dungrollin has been silent on academicish topics. But now 
she (skating perilously close to the fanfic ravine) offers the 
following interpretation of handwritten marginalia discovered in a 
dog-eared copy of "Muggle-Baiting and Magizoology". This vanity-
published pamphlet (1882) is conveniently out of print, and the copy 
to which Dungrollin refers was discovered in Bugges & Offspring's 
closing down sale, thus both the source and the content of the 
following information is entirely unverifiable.


1. Cock-a-doodle-*@^$%!

The Cock-a-doodle-*@^$%! is superficially identical to a common or 
garden cockerel or rooster, the only difference being that the Cock-
a-doodle-*@^$%! is nocturnal. The sexes are very difficult to tell 
apart, and both produce a prodigious amount of noise per night, the 
frequency and volume of calls peaking at 3am.

Malicious Muggle-baiters sneak Cock-a-doodle-*@^$%! eggs into 
ordinary Muggle hen coops so that the resulting chicks are raised as 
Muggle chickens. Moreover, a new breed has appeared in the past 50 
years(1) which has an affinity for the windowsills of Muggle 
bedrooms. It is little wonder that many Muggles look forward to the 
bird-flu panic and subsequent culling reaching their area of the 
world.


2. The Lesser-Spotted Soiler

A small, brownish finch-like bird which congregates above any 
accumulation of Muggle objects which have recently been cleaned. 
Recently washed cars and recently washed clothes are particular 
favourites. The call of the Lesser-Spotted Soiler is difficult to 
write down phonetically, though the simplest rendering is something 
like a low pitched "ha-ha-ha" followed by a rising series of "guffaw-
guffaw-guffaw" terminating in a harsh and uncouth drawn-out cackle.

A famous Twentieth Century Muggle-baiter (F. N. Nihilipilificator ? 
known to his friends as 'Flox', who won the prestigious Muggle-
Teaser of the Year Award 27 years on the trot) actually managed to 
train a flock of forty-two Lesser-Spotted Soilers to stalk a young 
and talented Tenor Saxophonist. The Saxophonist prided herself on 
her spotless apparel, and was eventually forced to stop playing 
outdoor concerts entirely. For this elegant demonstration of his 
formidable talents, Flox posthumously received the Lifetime 
Achievement Award for Being a Complete Bastard.


3. OIAEs

OIAEs (or Observer-Induced Apparating Entities) are believed to have 
been invented by mischievous Muggle-baiters as long ago as 300 BC. 
They can be defined as "any small, flying, biting irritant which 
*can* be caught and put out of action, but which *in general* on 
being attacked by a Muggle apparates to the other side of the room." 
It is important that the Muggles can occasionally succeed(2) in 
terminating an OIAE, otherwise they are tempted to give up trying, 
and the hilarity of the situation for wizard observers is lost. 

The irritant factor is upped by giving their flight a hum which is 
at precisely the right frequency to a) cause nightmares b) prevent 
sleep altogether by inducing the sensation of millions of insects 
landing on the skin c) cause the Muggle to turn on all lights in 
confusion, only to discover an empty and silent room; naturally the 
hum starts again just as the Muggle has switched off the lights and 
made him/herself comfortable in the dark once more. 

OIAEs are usually introduced to Muggle dwellings through a keyhole, 
though some species have been trained to wait outside netting-
covered doors and dart inside when the owner opens it, even just a 
fraction. Much comedy results from observing the hapless Muggles: 
they fix their eyes upon their target, hands held a foot apart and 
with head and body turning slowly(3) to follow the progress of the 
OIAE. Then at the last moment, certain that they're within reach of 
their prey the Muggles clap their hands together, by which time the 
little sod has vanished.


Notes
(1) Confidential sources suggest it was created by the notorious 
Muggle-baiter Julie "Make-Them-Suffer" Burchill(5).

(2) 
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr
&.dnm=Terminated+OIAE.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/the_old_crowd/lst%3f%26.dir=/%
26.src=gr%26.view=t (4)

(3) OIAE-catching is believed to have influenced the development of 
certain slow-motion martial arts such as Tai Chi:
http://www.farnorthreap.org.nz/images_photos/Community%
20Education/Tai%20Chi.JPG

(4) No OIAEs were harmed in the making of this photo(6) which was 
staged with the help of some red ink and some generous 
photoshopping. 

(5) I made that up.

(6) Except the one depicted, which was then granted scientific 
immortality by having a pin stuck through it, a label attached, and 
a special place reserved in that big entomology collection in the 
sky.








From spotthedungbeetle at dungrollin.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov 15 14:02:59 2005
From: spotthedungbeetle at dungrollin.yahoo.invalid (dungrollin)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:02:59 -0000
Subject: ****! (Re: Muggle-Baiting and Magizoology)
In-Reply-To: <dlcpk1+bpro@...>
Message-ID: <dlcpqj+e9hk@...>

Damn, I knew those links wouldn't work...

Wasn't there a box to uncheck to make long links wrap? Has it 
disappeared? Sorry, please cut and paste to get the full 3D experience.

Dungrollin






From annemehr at annemehr.yahoo.invalid  Thu Nov 17 03:33:52 2005
From: annemehr at annemehr.yahoo.invalid (annemehr)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:33:52 -0000
Subject: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dkmue5+lasg@...>
Message-ID: <dlgtn0+dbt2@...>

Talisman wrote:
> So, yeah, tiresome as it is, I continue to think that Harry is a Hx.
> (It's not my fault, blame Rowling.) Not one that Voldemort made;
> one that DD made. All in that cataclysmic night at Godric's
> Hollow. Voldemort did the murder, but DD cast the spell.

Lyn J. Mangiamelli wrote:
> Of course, as you know, I think the evil force preceeds Sally. The
> striking think, to me, is that Sally didn't appear to start out bad.
> He was the special friend of Griffyndor and started out (and to a
> great extent remains) a respected school founder. Sally changed,
> he almost surely made a Faustian bargain, perhaps in his desire
> to protect and strengthen the hand of his magical bretheren.

Kneasy wrote:
Sal was tempted, IMO - by the possibility of immortality. There're
ennough references to it throughout the books to make it a
reasonable motivation. He only partly succeeded - his spirit, persona
or whatever you want to call it did become effectively immortal, not
so his body. He became a disembodied entity, as exemplified by
Vapour!Mort - the potential for irresistible power is there, but it
can't work properly until it gets a body. Better still, an immortal body,
then he'd really have the world by the tail.


Anne:
Talisman -- Where do I sign?

So DD blushed when McGonagall said he was too Noble to use any of
Voldemort's powers, did he?  I love it when sentences turn out to mean
the opposite of what you thought they did.

And Lyn and Kneasy can both be right about Salazar.  Keeping
Wizardkind safe was the bait, until the immortality hook could be set.

For Carolyn: Don't worry about how DD got there fast enough to do the
Hx spell -- he had an alarm system at GH, I have no doubt.  A spare
portrait was placed there of an old and trusted ex-headmaster, or DD
made sure James knew how to call Fawkes to his side, or James sent a
Patronus-message.  Something.  Once DD knew, he dispatched Hagrid
there by Thestral, and then he himself apparated there, did the spell,
and left.  Yes, he left Harry there -- so what?  He left him on a
doorstep the next night, and he still needed Hagrid to take Harry
to... I don't know.  But he needed Hagrid to do something, or else why
on earth send Hagrid at all?

Hmmm... why did he send Hagrid, anyway?  And why was Hagrid late? 
Mmmmm... maybe he took Harry and a Fawkes-feather to Diagon Alley to
get a special wand made?  Can't rush these things, you know, it takes
time, and this wand had to be perfect.  And Hagrid was well-suited to
that errand.  If he was ambushed on the way by roving DEs, their
spells would bounce right off him -- he's nice and safe, a heavily
armored vehicle.  Yeah, I like it so far.  It needs a little something
more, though...

Anne







From estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid  Fri Nov 18 01:32:33 2005
From: estesrandy at estesrandy.yahoo.invalid (Randy Estes)
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: How It All Ends and Other Blather
In-Reply-To: <dlgtn0+dbt2@...>
Message-ID: <20051118013233.8346.qmail@...>



--- annemehr <annemehr at ...> wrote:

> Talisman wrote:
> > So, yeah, tiresome as it is, I continue to think
> that Harry is a Hx.
> > (It's not my fault, blame Rowling.) Not one that
> Voldemort made;
> > one that DD made. All in that cataclysmic night at
> Godric's
> > Hollow. Voldemort did the murder, but DD cast the
> spell.
> 
> Lyn J. Mangiamelli wrote:
> > Of course, as you know, I think the evil force
> preceeds Sally. The
> > striking think, to me, is that Sally didn't appear
> to start out bad.
> > He was the special friend of Griffyndor and
> started out (and to a
> > great extent remains) a respected school founder.
> Sally changed,
> > he almost surely made a Faustian bargain, perhaps
> in his desire
> > to protect and strengthen the hand of his magical
> bretheren.
> 
> Kneasy wrote:
> Sal was tempted, IMO - by the possibility of
> immortality. There're
> ennough references to it throughout the books to
> make it a
> reasonable motivation. He only partly succeeded -
> his spirit, persona
> or whatever you want to call it did become
> effectively immortal, not
> so his body. He became a disembodied entity, as
> exemplified by
> Vapour!Mort - the potential for irresistible power
> is there, but it
> can't work properly until it gets a body. Better
> still, an immortal body,
> then he'd really have the world by the tail.
> 
> 
> Anne:
> Talisman -- Where do I sign?
> 
> So DD blushed when McGonagall said he was too Noble
> to use any of
> Voldemort's powers, did he?  I love it when
> sentences turn out to mean
> the opposite of what you thought they did.
> 
> And Lyn and Kneasy can both be right about Salazar. 
> Keeping
> Wizardkind safe was the bait, until the immortality
> hook could be set.
> 
> For Carolyn: Don't worry about how DD got there fast
> enough to do the
> Hx spell -- he had an alarm system at GH, I have no
> doubt.  A spare
> portrait was placed there of an old and trusted
> ex-headmaster, or DD
> made sure James knew how to call Fawkes to his side,
> or James sent a
> Patronus-message.  Something.  Once DD knew, he
> dispatched Hagrid
> there by Thestral, and then he himself apparated
> there, did the spell,
> and left.  Yes, he left Harry there -- so what?  He
> left him on a
> doorstep the next night, and he still needed Hagrid
> to take Harry
> to... I don't know.  But he needed Hagrid to do
> something, or else why
> on earth send Hagrid at all?
> 
> Hmmm... why did he send Hagrid, anyway?  And why was
> Hagrid late? 
> Mmmmm... maybe he took Harry and a Fawkes-feather to
> Diagon Alley to
> get a special wand made?  Can't rush these things,
> you know, it takes
> time, and this wand had to be perfect.  And Hagrid
> was well-suited to
> that errand.  If he was ambushed on the way by
> roving DEs, their
> spells would bounce right off him -- he's nice and
> safe, a heavily
> armored vehicle.  Yeah, I like it so far.  It needs
> a little something
> more, though...
> 
> Anne
> 
> 

Some clues seem to talk around this.  Dumbledore would
"trust Hagrid with his life".  If Hagrid delivers the
DD horcrux Harry to the Dursley's house, Hagrid would
have been entrusted with the second half of DD's life.

Why does DD seem so interested in developing Harry's
talents?  Maybe he will live out another adventure
through Harry.

I always wondered about the motto "never tickle a
sleeping dragon" (except for the obvious sexual double
entendre).  What if Salazar accidently awoke the
sleeping dragon hidden in Hogwarts that unleashes the
desire for immortality?

What if young Tom tickled the same dragon?  The next
victim could be DD.  But if DD can turn the force for
Good instead of Evil and thereby destroy the menace. 
What if Harry has to kill DD to complete his mission
to destroy Tom Riddle?

Or perhaps the most important question of all!  What
if we had never allowed Randy into this group in the
first place! ;0)

Randy



		
__________________________________ 
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Sat Nov 19 12:39:30 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:39:30 +0000
Subject: Cauldrons and medical matters
Message-ID: <1FBAD055-2E5F-4CFA-8A79-0F22E1EE97DE@...>

More scraps on matters magica medica, though it was thought best to  
withhold one section, a quite harrowing and sordid depiction of the  
moral and physical decline resulting from addiction to fume sniffing  
and culminating in addicts stumbling about wearing an upside-down  
cauldron with the rim resting on their shoulders - 'Pot-heads' is the  
usual dismissive term. Too depressing for words. No matter, what  
remains is moderately informative. Well, I think so.


'Cauldron-Related Illnesses.'

Grouped under this heading we will find a number conditions varying  
in severity from minor to extremely serious. Cauldrons per se are  
comparatively harmless - unless used as a blunt instrument - however,  
failure to use common sense and follow simple rules and precautions  
can have unpleasant consequences.


R.S.I. (Repetitive Stirring Injury).

Commonly referred to as Cauldron Elbow, though it may also occur in  
the wrist and less frequently in the shoulder

Characterised as moderate to severe pain in the affected joint, some  
swelling may be evident, occasionally accompanied by localised  
erythema. Caused by the repetitive and prolonged action of stirring  
the contents of a cauldron. Symptoms become more severe over time,  
eventually resulting in the need to buy 'convenience' potions i.e,  
ready to serve in the 'handy family-sized boil-in-the-flask' type  
rubbish instead of fresh wholesome home-brewed potables.

Many magical folk avoid the RSI problem entirely by conjuring another  
arm specifically for the more tiring chores of everyday life.  
However, this can create difficulties; when shopping for clothes the  
choice is limited, especially as some enthusiasts regularly relocate  
the arm as required - left, right, middle of the chest, between the  
shoulder blades (useful for surreptitiously scratching your bum) or  
even from the top of the head (cunning way to disguise a bald spot -  
claim you shave your armpits). And if the extra arm gets RSI it can  
be vanished and a fresh replacement magicked up.

For the more conventional, RSI is best treated when in the early  
stages. Sufferers should immediately switch to recipes with a higher  
liquid content, or to a smaller cauldron, or both. Easier stirring  
greatly reduces the risk of the condition progressing to a more  
severe form. Avoid potions with a high solids content, i.e. macerated  
toad, bat's brains or eyeballs in blackstrap preservative. On no  
account should sufferers attempt to stir 'Anna Glypta's Porrage Mix'  
- not only will this exacerbate the condition, but there's a distinct  
possibility that a hernia may be added to your list of troubles.

Treatment.
Restrict activities to raising a light froth on unicorn milk for at  
least two weeks. A localised poultice (Needlefong's Formulation with  
extra nettles and Vindaloo Forte base) may not effect a cure, but  
it'll certainly give the patient something to think about.

Modern magical technology is constantly striving to eliminate the  
drudgery from potion making. Spells such as 'Rotarum!' for example,   
where the spoon is held still while the pot spins. However, it takes  
practice and concentration to avoid spillages by keeping the cauldron  
centred and balanced. In some instances close concentration on a  
spinning object has resulted in an hypnotic state developing, with  
the stirrer feeling that they were being sucked into the vortex.
At least that's what the resulting Inquest usually assumes has happened.


Contamination

ALWAYS scrub out your cauldron after use.
Even quite small amounts of contaminants carried over from one  
session to another can have unexpected and deleterious effects.

This is not the place to list the innumerable combinations that have  
plagued the careless mixologist. Three instances will suffice to  
drive home the point:

Case 1. A Restorative Potion was contaminated with traces of coq-au- 
vin. The imbiber can be found perched on the garden fence, greeting  
every dawn by crowing enthusiastically, all be it in a slightly  
inebriated state - much to the irritation of his neighbours. The hens  
keep a wary  eye on him, too.

Case 2. A dog shampoo adulterated by broomstick adhesive. Result - a  
stuck-up bitch.

Case 3. An 85 year-old witch who could never decide what she wanted  
for dinner was given a Decisiveness Potion by her family.  
Unfortunately the cauldron had previously been used to concoct paint  
stripper. The witch decided to seek a new career and can now be found  
at the Whiplash establishment where, at special matinees for short- 
sighted dirty old wizards she divests herself of her clothes (Tues,  
Thurs, Sat. 3pm).

Remember -  a clean cauldron is a safe cauldron.


Contact Dermatitis

Occasioned by spatters or spillage. Always wear dragon-hide gauntlets  
when  brewing any unguent intended for external application.  
Particular care should be taken when concocting the following potions  
since their effects are especially difficult to reverse:
Talon Regrowth Fluid (both the dragon and the cockatrice formulations)
Rapunzel's 'Forty-foot Hair In 10 Seconds Or Your Money Back' Unguent
Striped paint
Chimera Start-up Creme
Any Duplicating Fluids (ten digits are quite enough, thank you)
Ma Singleton's Original Sponge Finger Mix

Do not dip a finger into a potion and lick it under any circumstances  
- or at least not until you are certain that a) you've actually made  
exactly what you intended, and b) that what you've made isn't  
supposed to be harmful. Testing poisons, Zombie juice, Ga-Ga drops or  
female dragon pheromones (have fun watching your worst enemy trying  
to fight off a sex-crazed dragon) on oneself is not clever. That's  
why House-Elves were invented.


Primary Inadvertent  Enchantment

Also known as Cauldron Croup. Presents in multiple forms, being the  
consequence of breathing the fumes generated while mixing heated  
potions. While fumes are much less potent than the potion from which  
they are derived, they may have a gradual and insidious effect when  
inhaled in high concentrations or over a period of time.  
Additionally, certain vapours are preferentially generated depending  
on the comparative volatility of the ingredients. Thus the effect may  
bear no relation to that of the final potion.

Quite often the sufferer is unaware that subtle changes in behaviour  
or form are occurring. Indeed, he may insist that no changes have  
happened, or may notice a change but totally misconstrue its cause -  
recently a patient could no longer reach his work table and suspected  
that his arms had shortened. In fact it wasn't that at all, as soon  
became evident when it was pointed out that as the recipe for the  
potion he'd been brewing required half a shovelful of Phalloides  
gigantica, his arms had nothing to do with it.

Prevention is better than cure - always ensure adequate ventilation.


Secondary Inadvertent Enchantment

Similar to the above, with the difference that the potion fumes fumes  
affect an innocent third party (Passive Vapouring).

Much theorised and speculated about, only one documented and  
verifiable instance is known. A wizard (Tobermory Tubb) developed a  
fluid, which when painted on an object caused it to return to its  
rightful place at the end of the working day. Thus all utensils,  
tools, clothes, books, etc. would automatically tidy themselves away.  
He started mass-production, trademarking the product under an easily  
remembered and descriptive label. The final stages of manufacture  
required the fluid to be heated then decanted into shallow trays for  
rapid cooling before bottling - and the cooling was carried out by  
employing giant humming-birds to create a rapid air-flow over the  
trays, this air-flow venting to outside the building.

Just yards from the vent, at the bottom of the garden of a Mr & Mrs  
Twistleton, was a sturdy hutch, home to their House-Elf Grunty.  
Gradually this poor creature absorbed more and more of the active  
ingredient in the fumes until one night the critical level was  
reached and he suddenly found himself speeding out through the  
bathroom window and back into his hutch. Unfortunately the window and  
the hutch door door were closed at the time and consequently the  
household had to hire a replacement until he recovered. The  
Twistletons sued Tubb and won substantial damages. As the press  
reports of the case stated: "Tubb Backo! is hazardous to your Elf."






From dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov 21 17:16:28 2005
From: dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid (Charme)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:16:28 -0500
Subject: OT: Your posts and value in crisis
Message-ID: <01f001c5eebf$4ff13820$6701a8c0@...>

All,

It's been a long time, but I have a really good excuse - during parts of 
Sept and all of October, I was deployed fulltime with the American Red Cross 
and assisting federal agencies after Katrina hit the Gulf coast. I got back 
in early Nov and have been struggling to catch up in my life back here ever 
since.

That being said, the Old Crowd group was my escape from the stress of my 
volunteer work, as I was wirelessly connected to the Internet via a Treo I 
was graciously given to use. I wanted you to know that I read your 
posts(Barry, Lyn, Talisman, Catlady, Susan Albrecht, Eustace-Scrubb, pippin, 
and the others) often out loud to other adult Potterheads who were in 
shelters or hotels where I stayed during my work with the team - it became 
an almost nightly affair in a huge shelter for 3 weeks.  I tried to use the 
HPfGU messages but there were too many, and the conversation not as 
enlightening in the opinion of my audience.  (Sorry, your thoughts were 
REQUESTED by them, and of course I had to comply)

It ended up being an invaluable way to lighten the mood and discuss 
something other than FEMA, flood damage estimates, and victim's lack of 
personal property and homes. In fact, if I didn't download my messages from 
this group when I had a signal, my fellow Potterheads were quite 
disappointed. :)  Since donated copies of the Potter books were available, 
many adults who hadn't read them before started to and became interested so 
the discussion probably still is occuring elsewhere in my absence.

I just thought you should know how much I appreciated being able to be part 
of this group, if only to read what you write and discuss. You unwittingly 
contributed in your way to alleviating not only stress from my day, but for 
those far less fortunate than me.

Much holiday Potter love -
Charme












From susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov 21 17:37:16 2005
From: susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid (Susan Albrecht)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: Your posts and value in crisis
In-Reply-To: <01f001c5eebf$4ff13820$6701a8c0@...>
Message-ID: <20051121173716.98640.qmail@...>

Charme <dontask2much at ...> wrote:

>>>That being said, the Old Crowd group was my escape
from the stress of my volunteer work, as I was
wirelessly connected to the Internet via a Treo I 
was graciously given to use. I wanted you to know that
I read your posts(Barry, Lyn, Talisman, Catlady, Susan
Albrecht, Eustace-Scrubb, pippin, and the others)
often out loud to other adult Potterheads who were in 
shelters or hotels where I stayed during my work with
the team - it became an almost nightly affair in a
huge shelter for 3 weeks.  I tried to use the 
HPfGU messages but there were too many, and the
conversation not as enlightening in the opinion of my
audience.  (Sorry, your thoughts were REQUESTED by
them, and of course I had to comply)

It ended up being an invaluable way to lighten the
mood and discuss something other than FEMA, flood
damage estimates, and victim's lack of personal
property and homes. In fact, if I didn't download my
messages from this group when I had a signal, my
fellow Potterheads were quite disappointed. :)  Since
donated copies of the Potter books were available, 
many adults who hadn't read them before started to and
became interested so the discussion probably still is
occuring elsewhere in my absence.<<<


SSSusan:
That is just the coolest thing to read about, Charme. 
I'm glad for the connections made through HP in that
difficult setting, and that there was a way for things
to be lightened up a bit while confronted with all the
loss.  

I sincerely hope you also shared some FILKs with your
newfound Potterhead friends.  Some of Ginger's and
Randy's and Caius' phenomenal works? :-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan, glad to have Charme back among
us.





From dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov 21 17:47:45 2005
From: dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid (Charme)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:47:45 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] OT: Your posts and value in crisis
References: <20051121173716.98640.qmail@...>
Message-ID: <033601c5eec3$aee984a0$6701a8c0@...>



> SSSusan:
> That is just the coolest thing to read about, Charme.
> I'm glad for the connections made through HP in that
> difficult setting, and that there was a way for things
> to be lightened up a bit while confronted with all the
> loss.
>
> I sincerely hope you also shared some FILKs with your
> newfound Potterhead friends.  Some of Ginger's and
> Randy's and Caius' phenomenal works? :-)
>
> Siriusly Snapey Susan, glad to have Charme back among
> us.

Charme -

Yep, FILKs became quite popular with teenagers/young adults, who decided to 
make their own (after they understood what a FILK was) to popular rap music. 
I'll get the one they did to the tune of "Can't Touch This" by MC 
Hammer/Rick James off my Treo this week and send it to the Crowd - it's 
hilarious and was performed by 4 rappers and 3 melody and beat makers one 
night at a shelter.  It was so popular they started to have contests to see 
who could make the best one! :)

Heh,
Charme 





From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid  Mon Nov 21 22:46:07 2005
From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:46:07 -0000
Subject: OT: Your posts and value in crisis
In-Reply-To: <01f001c5eebf$4ff13820$6701a8c0@...>
Message-ID: <dltinf+psn1@...>

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Charme" <dontask2much at y...> wrote:
> 
> That being said, the Old Crowd group was my escape from the stress of my 
> volunteer work, as I was wirelessly connected to the Internet via a Treo I 
> was graciously given to use. I wanted you to know that I read your 
> posts(Barry, Lyn, Talisman, Catlady, Susan Albrecht, Eustace-Scrubb, pippin, 
> and the others) often out loud to other adult Potterheads who were in 
> shelters or hotels where I stayed during my work with the team - it became 
> an almost nightly affair in a huge shelter for 3 weeks.  I tried to use the 
> HPfGU messages but there were too many, and the conversation not as 
> enlightening in the opinion of my audience.  (Sorry, your thoughts were 
> REQUESTED by them, and of course I had to comply)
> snip>
> 
> I just thought you should know how much I appreciated being able to be part 
> of this group, if only to read what you write and discuss. You unwittingly 
> contributed in your way to alleviating not only stress from my day, but for 
> those far less fortunate than me.
> 

Great idea!
A captive audience! 
Lock 'em in a storm shelter and subject 'em to the twisty mentation of the 
toc weirdies. 

Mind you, some might consider it to be extreme mental cruelty.  
Hope there were plenty of Potter-qualified counsellors in residence, they'd
probably be needed.

More seriously, glad that the toc lot were able to provide some entertaining
diversion - no matter that it was unwitting.

Now put your feet up and treat yourself to a large gin. You deserve it.

Kneasy








From dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov 22 01:00:52 2005
From: dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid (Charme)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:00:52 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: OT: Your posts and value in crisis
References: <dltinf+psn1@...>
Message-ID: <01e501c5ef00$3051c1b0$6701a8c0@...>


Barry said:

>Great idea!
>A captive audience!
>Lock 'em in a storm shelter and subject 'em to the twisty mentation of the
>toc weirdies.

>Mind you, some might consider it to be extreme mental cruelty.
>Hope there were plenty of Potter-qualified counsellors in residence, they'd
>probably be needed.

>More seriously, glad that the toc lot were able to provide some 
>entertaining
>diversion - no matter that it was unwitting.


Charme snorts:

Mental cruelty? More likely for those afflicted with the anti-Potter virus 
the torture of drawing and quartering preferable, methinks ;)  And actually, 
believe it not, it happened completely by accident.  Someone observed me 
reading email and chuckling, then thumb-typing notes.  He asked me if I was 
sending mail back home, and I said no, I was reading Yahoo groups email from 
a Potter group I belonged to and wanted to make a note to check one of the 
books when I got back home. He said "why wait? There're some right over 
there, which one you need?"  And so it begins...he tells a person, they tell 
5 people and all of sudden, you have a group discussion.  And that was the 
first night - we managed to get all the books from the donated stash and had 
a TOC/canon discussion for 2 hours before lights out. :) After the 3rd 
night, it got so that more people wanted to read this book or that one, and 
I happened to mention that during a call home the first week.  The second 
week, I got a delivery of 10 copies (paperback) of each book that my 
significant other and his friends bought or donated to surprise me for the 
shelter folks.  And he's not a Potterhead, so I can say I was definitely 
feeling the love. :)

>Now put your feet up and treat yourself to a large gin. You deserve it.

Why thank you! :) This is the 5th or 6th time I have performed this kind of 
service and I have to say, you realize just how very lucky you are and how 
insignificant your worries are when you are faced with people who have lost 
everything they have. Definitely gives you even more of a reason to be 
thankful at Thanksgiving. I know that sounds cliche, but I swear to you it's 
true. I'll do it again in a heartbeat.

Charme















From dfrankiswork at davewitley.yahoo.invalid  Tue Nov 22 23:26:31 2005
From: dfrankiswork at davewitley.yahoo.invalid (davewitley)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:26:31 -0000
Subject: OT: Your posts and value in crisis
In-Reply-To: <01f001c5eebf$4ff13820$6701a8c0@...>
Message-ID: <dm09f7+7l3s@...>

Charme wrote:

> That being said, the Old Crowd group was my escape from the stress 
of my 
> volunteer work, as I was wirelessly connected to the Internet via a 
Treo I 
> was graciously given to use. 

Wow! I'm gobsmacked.

Thank you for sharing that.

David






From fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid  Thu Nov 24 15:36:53 2005
From: fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid (fhmaneely)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:36:53 -0000
Subject: OT: Your posts and value in crisis
In-Reply-To: <01f001c5eebf$4ff13820$6701a8c0@...>
Message-ID: <dm4mml+if49@...>

Many heartfelt thanks to you and all the other volunteers who have 
helped,and continue to help with the Katrina disaster. You guys are 
awesome! Unfortunately I was only able to help with a monetary 
donation and not with my time. So On this Thanksgiving day, I will 
give thanks for all the wonderful people like you!

Regards,
Fran

--- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Charme" <dontask2much at y...> 
wrote:
>
> All,
> 
> It's been a long time, but I have a really good excuse - during 
parts of 
> Sept and all of October, I was deployed fulltime with the American 
Red Cross 
> and assisting federal agencies after Katrina hit the Gulf coast. I 
got back 
> in early Nov and have been struggling to catch up in my life back 
here ever 
> since.
> 
> That being said, the Old Crowd group was my escape from the stress 
of my 
> volunteer work, as I was wirelessly connected to the Internet via a 
Treo I 
> was graciously given to use. I wanted you to know that I read your 
> posts(Barry, Lyn, Talisman, Catlady, Susan Albrecht, Eustace-
Scrubb, pippin, 
> and the others) often out loud to other adult Potterheads who were 
in 
> shelters or hotels where I stayed during my work with the team - it 
became 
> an almost nightly affair in a huge shelter for 3 weeks.  I tried to 
use the 
> HPfGU messages but there were too many, and the conversation not as 
> enlightening in the opinion of my audience.  (Sorry, your thoughts 
were 
> REQUESTED by them, and of course I had to comply)
> 
> It ended up being an invaluable way to lighten the mood and discuss 
> something other than FEMA, flood damage estimates, and victim's 
lack of 
> personal property and homes. In fact, if I didn't download my 
messages from 
> this group when I had a signal, my fellow Potterheads were quite 
> disappointed. :)  Since donated copies of the Potter books were 
available, 
> many adults who hadn't read them before started to and became 
interested so 
> the discussion probably still is occuring elsewhere in my absence.
> 
> I just thought you should know how much I appreciated being able to 
be part 
> of this group, if only to read what you write and discuss. You 
unwittingly 
> contributed in your way to alleviating not only stress from my day, 
but for 
> those far less fortunate than me.
> 
> Much holiday Potter love -
> Charme
>







From dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid  Sat Nov 26 02:55:11 2005
From: dontask2much at dontask2much.yahoo.invalid (Charme)
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:55:11 -0500
Subject: [the_old_crowd] Re: OT: Your posts and value in crisis
References: <dm4mml+if49@...>
Message-ID: <003d01c5f234$d2af6b60$6701a8c0@...>


>Fran said:

>Many heartfelt thanks to you and all the other volunteers who have
>helped,and continue to help with the Katrina disaster. You guys are
>awesome! Unfortunately I was only able to help with a monetary
>donation and not with my time. So On this Thanksgiving day, I will
>give thanks for all the wonderful people like you!

>Regards,
>Fran

AND

>>David said earlier:

>>Wow! I'm gobsmacked.

>>Thank you for sharing that.

>>David


Charme here:

No, thank YOU, Fran. :)  Donations are just as important as time, believe 
me - people like me can't do what we do without funding to help these 
families.

And David, you're most welcome and I'm thankful to YOU for using the word 
"gobsmacked." :) I made that my word of the day for Monday when I return to 
work...I simply absolutely *must* use that. Heh. :)

My best to you all -
Rebecca