From katmac at lagattalucianese.yahoo.invalid Mon Jan 1 02:15:48 2007 From: katmac at lagattalucianese.yahoo.invalid (Kat Macfarlane) Date: 31 Dec 2006 18:15:48 -0800 Subject: Care2 E-Card from Kat Macfarlane Message-ID: <20070101021548.22314.qmail@...> ***************************** Kat Macfarlane has sent you a Care2 e-card! To view your card, simply click on this address: http://www.care2.com/ecards/p/8364-7125-21146-8354 Care2.com - Over 5 million members strong! Change Lives. Change the World. Make a Difference. ***************************** The card was sent December 31, 2006.and will be available for 14 days. WHAT CAN YOU DO AT CARE2 ? * Make a difference -- discover hundreds of easy ways to change the world. * Meet others who care / find out which of your friends are already members. * Discover thousands of Healthy Living tips. * Sign petitions / influence your representatives. * Read and share blogs, photos, polls, recipes etc. * Much, much more...and all for free. WHAT'S YOUR PASSION? Health, Human Rights, Education, Environment, Women's Rights, Children, Pets, Peace? You'll find individuals and organizations who share your passion. BE A PART OF SOMETHING IMPORTANT After reading your e-card, check out the rest of the Care2 community and network. You'll like what you find! http://www.Care2.com From dfrankiswork at davewitley.yahoo.invalid Tue Jan 2 10:40:27 2007 From: dfrankiswork at davewitley.yahoo.invalid (davewitley) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:40:27 -0000 Subject: Well worth a read In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Carolyn wrote: > 5) And just going back to the wretched hoxpotches, renewed irritation > that the suggested combination still includes TWO items of Slytherin's > a) diary > b) Salazar's ring > c) Helga's cup > d) Slytherin's locket > e) Ravenclaw's WHAT? > f) Nagini, Harry or take your pick.. I share your pain, but the way I have rationalised this is that while the ring is an heirloom of a family descended from Salazar Slytherin, it is Voldemort's family we're talking about. My recollection is hazy, but I don't believe the ring is ever traced to SS himself (see, for example, http://www.hp- lexicon.org/magic/devices/horcruxes.html ). So while it's Slytherin in the sense of belonging to a (presumed) Slytherin family, it isn't associated personally with a Founder. I'd noticed the underground thing myself. I think it's more accurate that the climax (including the tower in HBP) takes place where there is only one way in and out. It's questionable, however, when the climax of POA takes place - in the Shack or by the lake? David From dfrankiswork at davewitley.yahoo.invalid Tue Jan 2 10:46:14 2007 From: dfrankiswork at davewitley.yahoo.invalid (davewitley) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 10:46:14 -0000 Subject: If Harry is a Horcrux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fran wrote: > > Maybe this has been brought up before but if Harry is a horcrux, why > would Voldie want to kill him? I'm not greatly enamoured of this theory, but my understanding is that at GH Voldemort was trying to make a Horcrux out of a thing using Harry's death, and, in a sort of radioactive spider explosion kind of way, Harry ended up as the Horcrux instead. In subsequent encounters, I think we are to take it that Voldemort doesn't realise that Harry is a Horcrux (so presumably he can't feel that he has one more piece of his soul missing than accounted for by known Horcruxes - after all, he probably had other things on his mind in the immediate aftermath of GH). David From coriolan at coriolan_cmc.yahoo.invalid Wed Jan 3 04:40:03 2007 From: coriolan at coriolan_cmc.yahoo.invalid (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 04:40:03 -0000 Subject: FILK: Ghost Writers Modify Message-ID: Ghost Writers Modify (HBP, Chap. 15) To the tune of Ghost Riders in the Sky Here's a You-tube performance by Johnny Cash & Friends http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R2M-s2HEC8&mode=related&search= Dedicated to Pippin (who filked the same song a few years back) THE SCENE: Slughorn's Christmas bash. Harry rejects overtures from celebrated ghost writer Eldred Worple. The Sluggy Club was warming up one cold and icy night Potter, with Lovegood, entered, as the Christmas tree shone bright. When all at once a grizzled hack named Worple came his way A-drawin' up a contract to write an HP essay His pal was a vampire and his fangs were really real He soon began a-flirting, and he made fangirls to squeal His mouth commenced to water until Worple said, "Refrain! You'd better stick to pasties, friend, or our work will be in Vein." Type-ee-yi-ay, Type-ee-yi--o Ghost writers modify "The pages of your memoirs, they are sure to be a smash. The readers of the Wizard World will shower you in cash. You need but grant me interviews, say five or maybe six. Our profits will go higher when they start to shoot the flicks." Type-ee-yi-o, Type-ee-yi--ay Ghost writers glorify But then Worple's hopes were shattered, he heard the Boy Who Lived: "Exclusive rights to my bio I did Jo Rowling give. So if you have a need to write of Harry Potter's life, Just go online and send it to a fanfiction archive. Type-ee-yi-o, Type-ee-yi--ay Ghost writers stultify` Ghost writers stultify - CMC HARRY POTTER FILKS http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm From constancevigilance at constancevigilance.yahoo.invalid Wed Jan 3 05:21:38 2007 From: constancevigilance at constancevigilance.yahoo.invalid (constancevigilance) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 05:21:38 -0000 Subject: If Harry is a Horcrux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "davewitley" wrote: > > Fran wrote: > > > > Maybe this has been brought up before but if Harry is a horcrux, why > > would Voldie want to kill him? > David: > I'm not greatly enamoured of this theory, but my understanding is that > at GH Voldemort was trying to make a Horcrux out of a thing using > Harry's death, and, in a sort of radioactive spider explosion kind of > way, Harry ended up as the Horcrux instead. CV: I've always believed that the planned target for the horcrux was the house at GH itself. It is an artifact of a founder. It would be hidden in plain sight. It is indestructable (oops). I believe that the failure to complete the horcrux enchantment because of the curse backfiring is what caused the house to collapse. From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid Sat Jan 6 21:27:47 2007 From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:27:47 -0000 Subject: The Last Horcrux Message-ID: Pippin wrote in : << 5. Harry will miscalculate the number of horcruxes, returning Voldemort to vapor form instead of killing him. Harry will then be ambushed by the traitor (see above "2. There is a traitor in the Order. It's Lupin. Get over it. :)") as he attempts to destroy the one remaining hx. Harry will vanquish the traitor after giving him one final chance to return to the good side. Voldemort's vapor form will be trapped for good with the help of someone Harry doesn't expect. >> Once Voldemort has been returned to vapor form, what is traitor!Lupin's motive for preventing destruction of the last Horcrux/Voldemort? It seems to me that once Harry has destroyed the last Horcrux, then Vapormort really dies, then Voldie cannot do anything to control ESE!Lupin and neither Voldie nor anyone else (DEs pretending once again to have been on the good side all along) will reveal ESE!Lupin's previous misdeeds. And IIRC part of the theory is he keeps committing more crimes to conceal his previous crimes. So ESE!Lupin should welcome the opportunity to retire from crime provided by elimination of Voldie. And it's not like Vapormort is in a position to give advantages or rewards to anyone. Fran wrote in : << Maybe this has been brought up before but if Harry is a horcrux, why would Voldie want to kill him? >> Maybe the Horcrux is Harry's skull, rather than Harry. So Voldie just has to kill Harry in a way tbat doesn't damage the skull. << Would killing Harry destroy the Horcrux? Could the final scene be Harry realising himself to be a horcrux and commits suicide? >> This has previously been suggested as a dramatic heroic tragic pathetic ending, but I just realized that it could be an ironic disgusting ending, when Harry dies in a way that doesn't damage his skull, resulting in Voldemort's exultant triumphant acquisition of Harry's skull, which he hides in an even safer place. << What happens when a piece of your soul (as in a horcrux) is detroyed? Do you have chest pain or headache? >> So far it appears that Voldemort doesn't notice when his Horcruxes are destroyed. From foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 7 18:05:39 2007 From: foxmoth at pippin_999.yahoo.invalid (pippin_999) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:05:39 -0000 Subject: The Last Horcrux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)" wrote: > Once Voldemort has been returned to vapor form, what is > traitor!Lupin's motive for preventing destruction of the last > Horcrux/Voldemort? It seems to me that once Harry has destroyed the > last Horcrux, then Vapormort really dies, then Voldie cannot do > anything to control ESE!Lupin and neither Voldie nor anyone else (DEs > pretending once again to have been on the good side all along) will > reveal ESE!Lupin's previous misdeeds. And IIRC part of the theory is > he keeps committing more crimes to conceal his previous crimes. So > ESE!Lupin should welcome the opportunity to retire from crime provided > by elimination of Voldie. > And it's not like Vapormort is in a position to give advantages or > rewards to anyone. Pippin: ESE!Lupin keeps committing more betrayals to conceal his previous betrayals, but that is not his motive for helping Voldemort to gain power. His motive for that is political -- he wants the ministry's power over the werewolves broken and he sees Voldemort as the only hope of bringing that about. Of course there is the certainty that Voldemort will seek to create his own hegemony and cut the werewolves out, but fortunately the last horcrux offers a handy solution to that little problem If ESE!Lupin controls *it* then he will have a power over Voldemort when Voldemort returns to physical form again. But if the last horcrux is destroyed then Voldemort will flee and will not dare to assume physical form again knowing he would risk human death if he does. The Ministry will retain its power over the werewolves and all ESE!Lupin's crimes will have been for nothing. He is too much of a moral coward to choose that path, IMO, even if Harry offers him forgiveness. Pippin From katmac at lagattalucianese.yahoo.invalid Tue Jan 9 07:01:10 2007 From: katmac at lagattalucianese.yahoo.invalid (Kat Macfarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:01:10 -0800 Subject: Happy Birthday, Severus! Message-ID: <00d601c733bc$07147d40$482fdcd1@...> Jo has wished Our Boy a happy birthday. So maybe he isn't going to die. Purrs, --Gatta [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid Tue Jan 9 11:42:35 2007 From: silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid (silmariel) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:42:35 +0100 Subject: [the_old_crowd] Happy Birthday, Severus! In-Reply-To: <00d601c733bc$07147d40$482fdcd1@...> References: <00d601c733bc$07147d40$482fdcd1@...> Message-ID: <56f2b65c0701090342ib47f1b3g8dc2b0e225aed583@...> On 1/9/07, Kat Macfarlane wrote: > > Jo has wished Our Boy a happy birthday. So maybe he isn't going to die. > > Purrs, > > --Gatta > Oh, I hope so. Sorry about not writing on DH, but I've started receiving anonymous calls and I'm upset. Silmariel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid Thu Jan 11 22:54:18 2007 From: fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid (fhmaneely) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:54:18 -0000 Subject: Deathly Hallow's Release Date Message-ID: I was reading a recent interview with Jason Isaacs at HP Lexicon, and he said something to indicate that the book will be released in July. Anyone heard any rumours about this? Here is the link to the interview: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#article:9401 Fran From susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid Thu Jan 11 23:03:57 2007 From: susiequsie23 at cubfanbudwoman.yahoo.invalid (susiequsie23) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:03:57 -0500 Subject: [the_old_crowd] Deathly Hallow's Release Date References: Message-ID: <008201c735d4$c65c38e0$6401a8c0@Main> Fran: >I was reading a recent interview with Jason Isaacs at HP Lexicon, and > he said something to indicate that the book will be released in July. > Anyone heard any rumours about this? Here is the link to the interview: > http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#article:9401 > Rumors of a July 31, 2007 release date popped up shortly after the release of the book's title, when Baker & Taylor, a large book jobber, put that as the publication date on its website. Scholastic right afterwards stated that no date has been released. So I don't think anyone knows just why B&T did this. Now, I just logged in to B&T and I can no longer even get the title to show up! So perhaps they've "admitted" they messed this up. (Anyone know for sure?) Siriusly Snapey Susan From silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid Sat Jan 13 22:33:36 2007 From: silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid (silmariel) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:33:36 +0100 Subject: Chapdisc: HBP28, Flight of the Prince & Dark Mirror Message-ID: <56f2b65c0701131433gc91578ay9bf7f64e45f33d6@...> About the calls, it was nothing after all. I'll explain. We had a problem in the MUD with a badly addicted player, he can be up to 16 hours a day online, and after losing job he started flooding the staff with notes and suggestions on how to run the mud, so I had to confront him, and not nicely, because he didn't understand a 'no' as an answer. We froze his account and two days later I started receiving calls. After answering the first five to find no one at the other end of the line, I didn't answer, the calls multiplied... it was a commercial from a telephone company, which only happened to answer when my bf took the phone yesterday. The player is known to say things like 'All the staff is against me, but I always win' and 'Everyone conspires against me'. Sorry to have worried you, but I thought I had a motive to be worried. About TOL, I'm following about 20-30% of list volume, and the discussion for ch 28 by Colebiancardi contained a nice and fresh question: "1. Why so much blood? The blood in the corridor by the tower, bloody footprints, blood on the flagstones. Who was wounded? Malfoy? Snape? The blond DE? The brother & sister act was behind Harry, so it could not have been them." Actually I'm interested in the blood from the flagstones below the broken Gryffindor point counter, it seems to be form nowhere, since the scared students there don't appear to be hurt. A Hx, maybe? A blooding but unseen house elf? Discussion starts in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163570 a lonely message in other thread by Ceridwen http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163603 For those who appreciate theories, Talisman has a new one in "Dark Mirror, Part 1: Hairy as Lupin..." *cheers* to be found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/163728 Pippin, I seem to recall you asked about unreliable first POV in fantasy. The last 3 books of The Mists of Avalon closely follow that pattern, and being a story everyone already knows, has merit. Oh, hum. I've just remembered the original is supposed to be just one book, but it was published as a four book series in Spanish. Silmariel, happy with gmail spell checker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 14 01:59:34 2007 From: talisman22457 at talisman22457.yahoo.invalid (Talisman) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 01:59:34 -0000 Subject: Dark Mirror, Part 1: Hairy as Lupin Message-ID: (cross-posted on Main) ::Talisman peers into the inky depths of a dark and elaborately wrought hand mirror:: Speak again, O oracle of the Deathly Hallows ::gives it a few whacks on the table:: Come on then, what do you mean by: "hairy as Lupin?" Is that supposed to be a personal crack? ... or ...hmmmmmmmmm. (She pauses to consider possibilities that had, frankly, gone right out of her iniquitous little head ever since she lost that argument with herself about how the unfortunately supine Mr. Thewlis could not possibly be properly cast .) No...wait...can it be?...it's... Hairy-a**ed Lupin? Woooo hooo! Lupin *is* ESE, after all: Erotically-Shedding-Ecdysiast! Lupin ! eeh? ::..angry buzzing from the mirror...:: Oops. Sorry. False alarm. Seems Lupin *is* destined to fizzle out as the most tepid werewolf ever to bother transforming. Ah, well. Perhaps Tonks can use him to damp mop. The real message for Book 7 is: Harry as Lupin. Indeed, when Harry emulates the most salient aspect of Lupin's dark secret, i.e. his lycanthropic transformation, he will merely be following the pattern previously established in Books 5 and 6. Quirrell was, of course, Harry's influence in Book 5. The most significant imagery of Quirrell's secret was that of Voldemort protruding from the back of his head: he literally had Voldemort in his head. Harry may not have had the Dark Lord's face jutting out of the back of his skull, but the post graveyard activation of the scar link ensured that, for the greater part of Book 5, Harry certainly did have Voldemort in his head. (Indeed there's a fair amount of slippage both ways; even shared turns at possession.) However, Harry didn't necessarily see his mind link as a problem. Although, unlike Quirrell, Harry didn't intentionally serve the Dark Lord, like Quirrell he did relish the power that his special relationship provided. Harry rationalized his intentional pursuit of the Voldemort-linked visions, but this did further Voldemort's plan to get the orb (cf. stone), until Snape and DD stepped in to mess things up. Well, okay, the orb *was* actually DD's bait. But still Harry didn't know that. In any event, significant aspects of Harry's Book 5 plot arc clearly mimic Quirrell's core secret. HBP takes up with Book 2, and follows suit. The gist of Lockhart's dark secret is that he is a total fraud: taking credit for the talents of others. In like vein, from the hour he lays hands on the Prince's old book, Harry intentionally basks in the glory of a more talented person's accomplishments. Again, there is detail variation: Lockhart was a predator, whereas Harry has the opportunity handed to him. Nonetheless, he takes full advantage of it and certainly enjoys his ersatz fame. So much so that, when Snape asks for the book, moments after Malfoy's near-fatal slashing, Harry's main worry is the damage that could accrue to his potion-meister reputation. Additionally, Harry *can* be seen as predatory toward Slughorn, albeit at DD's insistence. Even though he doesn't Obliviate his memory donor, Rowling adds the artistic touch of Harry's *knowing* that Slughorn "would remember nothing of [it] in the morning" (HBP US 490). Again, Lockhart's central secret plays out in Harry's actions through the majority of Book 6. So then: 1, 2...3... Poof! Watch as Book 7 Harry transforms into Lupin, before your very eyes. I absolutely guarantee that Harry will manifest Lupin's darkest secret, throughout the bulk of Deathly Hallows. You can take that much to the bank, and tell them Talisman sent you. The devil, naturally, is in the details. I don't expect Harry to actually become a werewolf. I could be wrong about this, Hedwig knows; Greyback might be skulking in the shrubbery at Privet Drive as we speak. But, heretofore unused aconite lessons and wombatish whisperings of bite epidemics notwithstanding, I would find it incongruent to have Harry literally pop a snout in the final stretch. Instead, my expectation is that Harry will undergo a Dark Transformation. Just as Newt Scamander describes the werewolf in FBWTFT, our Harry, an (arguably) "...otherwise sane and normal wizard...[will transform] into a murderous beast" (42). The prospects are delightful, and let`s face it the gathering storm is already in evidence. Like Lupin, Harry was "infected" in early childhood. Of course, instead of werewolf drool, Harry got that big squirt of evil wizard juice. It's still in there you know, and I'll bet it can activate. Moreover, it's clear that DD wants Harry to go postal in the final run. One of the most astonishing scenes in HBP is the revenge pep rally DD holds for Harry, in his final session of loco parentis advice. Rowling shows us an agitated and emphatic DD, "swooshing" about in his "glittering" robes (HBP 510). I'll bet they were short glittery ones and came with a pair of pom poms. Just watch him do the human alphabet : Gimme me a "K"! Gimme a I! Gimme a L! L! What's that spell? KILL! KILL! KILL! ::lots of jumping and pom pom shaking:: Don't need no AK or silver glove, Just ax the B@#$%&! with pure love!!!! Yeah Team! :: big final jump and split:: Really, it's obscene when you think about it. This 150-year-old authority figure admonishing a 16-year-old kid to agree to--at least try to--kill someone. Remind you of anyone? Say, Draco and his Dark Lord? As usual none of DD's rationale hangs together. But when has that bothered Harry? DD insists that Harry *must* try to kill Voldemort, in retribution for James and Lily. Of course, Harry is hardly unique in having lost loved ones to Voldemort. If vigilante justice is to hold the day, or if vengeance is a compelling substitute for a "real" prophecy, Harry should have to queue up behind a long line of bereaved friends and family, starting with Myrtle's kin. There is also the argument of Harry's special power. Leaving aside the irony of love and purity as secret murder weapons, we know that lots of folks are capable of love. By suggesting that Harry in particular is *special* for being able to love "given everything that has happened to [him]," DD merely manages to inculpate himself, again (HBP US 509). So, abuse is an important ingredient, eh? We'll just add that to the 1) don't want him to get a swelled head; and 2) yet unused *blood protection* excuses, shall we? Oh, and that's another lie by ommission from the Book 5 "tell all;" or were you only *guessing* why you allowed it, DD? ::Talisman licks her quill and makes a few more notes in DD's permanent record:: Such a naughty old boy. Another argument is that LV unwittingly gave Harry some special gifts at GH. Well, let's see. We've been told that, since the painful moments in the artium, Voldie's been practicing Occlumency against Harry. Have to do something about that, eh? At least Harry *can* understand Parseltongue--handy enough should defeating Voldemort require eavesdropping on his pillow talk with Nagini--but then, we've seen that DD could speak it, too. So why make it Harry's problem? And, as many of us have been asking ourselves, why have Voldemort breathing down Harry's neck at all? Why not send him back to cool his heels in Albania? Clearly, long before Harry aquires Slughorn's *unedited* memory, DD has deduced how many Hxes LV made, the objects likely used as the containers, and even what order/whose death went into the creation of each annoying little masterpiece. Why not finish bashing them all, and then go hunt down whichever rat Voldemort is inhabiting, for the final blow? Then too, why can't anyone else help Harry? Hardly out of secrecy. Harry can't hide anything in his head, and we have no reason to believe that Hermione and Ron have any talents in that direction, either. I'm willing to believe that Legilimens *is* a relatively rare skill, but You-Know-Who certainly has it, and he's the one we'd be trying to keep our secret from, isn't he? Nah, Harry isn't so much in danger of being dragged into the death arena by Voldemort, as shoved from behind by DD. DD laid the coals for all this in the first place, and in HBP we see him blow on them until "a flame seem[s] to leap inside [Harry's] chest, searing his throat" (HBP US 512). This is the penultimate act in priming Dark Harry. The deal is sealed when he pins Harry in place to watch events on the tower. And , yes, DD and Snape *have* been cultivating Harry's hatred of Snape throughout the series, as people are cleary beginning to notice. If you understood my ancient explanation of DD's use of Sirius to actualize Harry's love power, you are now advantageously positioned to understand his work to activate Harry's hate in HBP. If not, here's a remedial overview: Although Sirius's escape was arranged by Lucius/Imperio-ed Fudge--in order to facilitate Lu's plan to destory Harry (and make it seem like collateral damage, via dementor)--on a higher level, it was DD's plan. Who wants to bet that Snape--at DD's behest--whispered some interesting facts about Wormtail, and his whereabouts, into Lucius's luscious ear? Wouldn't it be amusing to sic Sirius on the rat, with dementors (as clearly demonstrated throughout Book 3) instructed to attack when Black and Potter are in proximity--making sure they get the boy first? Order operatives Snape and Lupin work together to acquaint Harry with the truth about Sirius (and send Wormtail to fetch Voldmort, as Pip! Squeak noted in her Spy Games, so long ago, only more so). Alas, then DD feigns an inability to clear Sirius--thereby limiting contact between godfather and son--until Book 5, where he allows the relationship to bloom, right up until he lassoes Sirius with an invisible Incarcerous spell (while Bella stuns him) and yanks him through the veil. Don't think for a moment that Harry's the only one sharing Voldemort's head in Book 5. Lovely how DD's single moment of fear in the atrium is when LV is about to possess Harry. DD knows exactly what LV is going to do-- before he does it--and by no outward sign. Why is DD worried? This is the big pay-off moment. Will Sirius's death Vold-proof Harry? Or, will LV set up housekeeping? We see that DD knows instantly when it works--and *why* it works. So, in the wink of a twinkly eye, the Headmaster who has avoided Harry all year is " inches from [Harry's nose]" (OoP US 816). Having wished for months that DD would spare a few words for him, Harry soon can't get him to shut up. In Book 6, DD [Rowling] confirms the effect of Sirius's death (which I explained back in July 2003, shortly after Book 5's release, e.g. # 66983), i.e. Harry has been Voldproofed: the DL doesn't want to touch him with a ten-foot tentacula. [`Course after Sirius is dead we see that DD can exonerate Sirius with just a few words to Fudge. Even though there is no body, and we know that no one from the Order testified (the Ministry doesn't even know they exist--like all good operatives, they "weren't there"). Is the testimony of 16-year-olds so much weightier that of 13-year- olds? Well, no one asked for it, anyway. Funny, huh? But then we've seen DD's curiously tardy exoneration powers before, e.g. Hagrid in Book 2, haven't we?] Even though Harry feels a loyalty to his dead parents, he never really knew them. DD uses Sirius to give Harry a truly cognizant love/loss experience. Notice how Voldemort didn't mind the open exchange conduit earlier in the year, albeit Harry *cared* about Sirius then, too. No, it was the powerful throb of emotion for a lost loved-one that sent the Dark Lord running. That is why DD caused Harry to meet Sirius, to know him--in a controlled fashion--and then to watch him die, in the circumstances we see in OoP. Just as he used Sirius to arouse Harry's love (for the sake of his Plan) DD has now used Snape to unleash Harry's hate. Oh, I don't think that DD sacrificed his own life solely to piss Harry off. I'm sure there is more to it than that, and that those reasons also go beyond enhancing Snape's DE prestige or any nonsense having to do with saving Draco. But, it *is* why he arranged to have Snape zap him right in front of Harry. We know that the revenge-fire burning in Harry's heart for Voldemort has only been eclipsed by the nuclear reaction that went off at Snape, that night. Book 6 leaves Harry seething with revenge and focused on killing at least two people. What do you think that has done to Voldemort's Occlumency program? Not only will Voldemort be inclined to resume his special t?te-?- t?tes with our boy, but that latent bit of Voldemort in Harry's scruffy little head is likely to be nourished. Enter Lupinized!Harry--Lupinized in the sense that we will see him in the throes of a Dark Transformation, for a significant part of Book 7. Oh, don't be dreary. Of course Harry will have an opposing, victoriously transcendent, transformation. But let's try not to think about that, just yet. The darkest hour has not been plumbed, and there's plenty of fun to be had. I predict that, not only will a hate-filled heart unleash Voldemort's powers--on Harry and in him--but Harry will actually join forces with the Dark Lord. "How?" you ask. "Why?" As I opined months ago, the castle has already fallen to Voldemort. Ergo, that's where the Dark Lord and his favorite DE are hanging out these days. We know that at least one Hx target, Nagini, is there, as well. Not to mention all the other reasons we want to get in: DD's portrait, Pensieves, other Hx clues, blah, blah If he's going to kill everyone / destory Hxes, Harry will need to infiltrate the Dark Lord's stronghold: Hogwarts. Sure he's got a secret passage and an IC, but even if Snape lets him use the hump-backed witch, ol' Nagini can see through the cloak--and she's a tattle-tail. Plus there's just no sport in three quick AKs from out of thin air. So, how will the new alliance come about? Well, Rowling promises that a lot of DD's secrets will be disclosed in Book 7. Inasmuch as this entire predicament is DD's doing, it's possible Harry won't be so thrilled with what he learns. I recall annemehr asking me, long years ago--in response to my position regarding DD's orchestration of events--what it would do to Harry, to discover that DD had purposed it all. Maybe we'll get the chance to find out . ; ) On the other hand, even if a disgruntled Harry moves from being DDM to something more of his own person, this may not happen early enough to send him reeling into Voldemort's arms. Indeed, he may attempt feigning a change of loyalties in order to get closer to his quarry. I know, I know: he's got a transparent head, and the scar link is going to be back and better than ever. Still, the opportunity is ripe for an artistically pleasing reversal of that Fudge/Scrimgeour poster-boy program we`ve heard about. Long before he was distracted by the need to obliterate Potter, old snake-eyes has dreamt of dominion over the WW. That's his real goal. Harry's just a fly in the ointment. In spite of LV's prowess for executing the resistance, he must surely prefer persuading people, quickly, of the need to be obedient. Let's face it, the more people you kill, the less subjects you've got, and the sooner you *arrive* as uncontested dictator, the better. With shockwaves of DD's demise still reverberating through the WW, what better way to extinguish any tremulous ember of hope than to exhbit The Chosen One, as your mascot? Thus, even while LV can see through the ruse, he may consider the propaganda a sufficient asset to play along with it for awhile. Come into my parlor quoth the spider to the fly Then LV will discover that Harry *is* a Hx (* see postscript, below), and he'll be caught in his own web. And, with all the murderous hate swirling around his heart, the evil juice pulsating in his head, and the scar link stronger than ever, even a DDM!Harry is likely to find himself in deep water. Thank goodness Snape's in the house. Yes, the accumulating evidence sorts well with the established patterns of Harry emulating his old DADA profs, and of abutting book reversals. Harry's going dark as midnight on the battlefield of the soul. Think of the possibilities. One of many delightful spin -offs from this involves the Malfoy clan. Remember how they tried so hard to get Harry to the Dark Side in Books 1 and 2? Sure you do. We could only guess before, but thanks to Rowling's site and Snape's chat with Bella in HBP, we know that the DE's venerated Harry as a potential replacement for Voldemort. (I'll bet they were hopeful of a little less insanity, too.) Although DD did a good job of making sure Harry would reject Draco (and Slytherin House), and Draco evinced something less than diplomatic skills, Draco *did* try to take Harry under his wing. When junior botched the job, the elder Malfoy applied his considerable resources--nothing less than the DL's Chamber of Secrets opener--in a bold attempt to eliminate the Potter recruitment competitors. Imagine the difference if things had gone according to plan: 1) Hagrid rotting in Azkaban; 2)The Weasely Family discredited, 3) the Mudblood Granger Myrtlized; and 4) DD out in the street. Fortunately the Malfoys would have been there to help Harry pick up the pieces. Lucius had no clue that TR was going to seep out of the book, let alone formulate a plan of his own. Lucius really had no interest in, or expectation of, harming Harry. Quite the contrary. It was only after Harry thwarted his plan, identified him as the culprit, and personally humiliated him via Dobby (complete with an elfin butt-kicking) that Lucius viewed Harry as a liability rather than an opportunity. Segue to Book 3, and the dementor plan. But, times have changed for the Malfoys, haven't they. The entire family is in dire jeopardy. Azkaban won't protect Lucius much longer and Draco clearly failed in his mission. I suspect Draco is still alive, thanks to Snape's clever advocacy and Voldemort's euphoria over DD's death. But, he's no "fair-haired boy" in any metaphorical sense. The best he can do now is to keep his pale head down and hope LV doesn't think about him. Has Lord V noticed Narcissa's disobedience? Even if not, she clearly has continuing reason to fear for her spouse and child. Anyway you look at it, the Malfoys have a dim future in the New Vold Order. Under the circumstances, they might find it handy to know a champion with special powers to bring the Dark Lord down. I've always posited that Lucius --like most DEs--was soiling his pantaloons at the graveyard. Aside from Lestrange & Co. (and DD), no one had an interest in seeing the DL return. By now, the Malfoys must be positively yearning for a GH redux. Imagine their distress when Harry appears to be Voldemort's new pal. Oh, if only he'd go back to being a tiresome intermeddler! It's a feast of irony. But, it's not all amusement. I expect Harry to benefit from the Malfoys resources before it's over: information, artifacts, or even a helping hand. I don't mean to suggest that Lucius or Draco will be reformed, Slytherin forefend, they'll just be pursuing self-interest, as usual. And, odds are, they (at least Lucius and likely Draco) will run afoul of Voldemort once too often. I'll be sorry to see Lucius go--he's always exciting on page--but I'm sure he'll make a titillating exit. In any event, here's to Harry as Lupin. May his Dark Transformation give us all a few howls. Cheers, Talisman, saying: stay tuned for more from this mischievous mirror, I think it`s starting up again... PS *Yes, I do subscribe to Hx!Harry. In my version, posted back in November 2005, Voldemort did the murder, but, unbeknownst to him, DD (or his lieutenant) did the spell. Ergo: Voldemort doesn't understand what happened at GH, though DD clearly does. Lily knew it too. That's why she couldn't fight back. Couldn't risk Voldemort's soul staying intact by virtue of a self-defense justification--plus, with sacrifice, you get the burning blood bonus. It was the best defense for Harry in that situation. Well, okay, a pet phoenix might have worked, too. But then you wouldn't be furthering The Plan by having VaporMort all psyched-out about Harry's powers, and well, never mind that now. I'm sure DD reassured her it would all lead to Voldemort's downfall, one day. I imagine that aiming an AK at a blob of your own essence could confuse the incantation into thinking your intent is to off yourself. Mix that with some soul-tether immortality, and Voila, you get blasted into a wicked miasma. Whether Harry defeats the last bit of Voldmort, within himself, or whether keeping Voldemort at bay remains the *battle that must be fought again and again, but can never be won* remains to be seen.) From coriolan at coriolan_cmc.yahoo.invalid Tue Jan 16 04:50:05 2007 From: coriolan at coriolan_cmc.yahoo.invalid (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:50:05 -0000 Subject: FILK: Someone Up A Tree Message-ID: Someone Up A Tree (OOP, Chap. 24) To the tune of Someone In a Tree, from Sondheim's Pacific Overtures (Sondheim once said that he thought this was the best song he ever wrote ? I wouldn't rate it that high, but I still hope I've done it justice) Dedicated to Constance Vigilance Here's a well-sung, poorly filmed performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0qlmuAvSp4 THE SCENE: During Occlumency lessons, SNAPE queries HARRY about a memory fragment 'Did you see everything I saw?' Harry asked, unsure whether he wanted to hear the answer. 'Flashes of it,' said Snape, his lip curling. `To whom did the dog belong?' 'My Aunt Marge,' Harry muttered. SNAPE summons HARRY down into the Pensieve to explore this memory further. YOUNG!HARRY has just been chased up the tree by RIPPER, as THE DURSLEYS and AUNT MARGE look on in merriment SNAPE Pardon me, what went on? HARRY: On the lawn? SNAPE At the Privet house. HARRY: At the Privet house? SNAPE: There was a dog It was whose? HARRY: Auntie Marge SNAPE (looking at Marge): Awful large HARRY: Very overweight And there were trees on their estate May I show you? SNAPE: Call me "sir"! HARRY: There were trees Then, everywhere. SNAPE: Please call me "sir"! HARRY: And there's that cur! Let me show you. SNAPE: Manners, please. HARRY: I was younger then Ripper had me climbing trees I was younger then Blamed for everything! I was hounded all the time I had also walls to climb I was younger then Blamed for everything! I on Ripper's tail tread Then he chased me and I fled I was someone up a tree! I was younger then! DURSLEYS (to Ripper): Give him third degree! YOUNG!HARRY I am up a tree. I am nine. I am up a tree. HARRY (to Snape): Must we linger then? MARGE: Underbred and weak, that I see ? Grief to your fam'ly. Let me have more wine. HARRY: I see Marge and Vernon Mercy they are spurnin'. MARGE This should give him a good scare! BOTH HARRYS: Blamed for everything! SNAPE You were someone up a tree. DUDLEY Filling me with glee! SNAPE Some of them have wine in their cups. YOUNG!HARRY One of them drinks wine. She's the meanest, then. SNAPE (looking at Dudley): Someone waddles `round, passing gas ? YOUNG!HARRY: Someone very dim ? HARRY: He is also nine. DURSLEYS And there's someone up a tree ? MARGE: ?So our day is now complete. DURSLEYS & MARGE Without someone up a tree, Nothing funny here. YOUNG!HARRY: I am hiding up a tree. HARRY: They would mock me every day. MARGE (to Vernon): Mean and runty, I must say That boy's sure to go astray MARGE & VERNON You/We must be severe HARRY: I was there then. YOUNG!HARRY: I am here still. They would foment every day. SNAPE It's young Potter, out to sea. YOUNG!HARRY, HARRY & SNAPE It is Ripper and the tree It's how Dudley laughs and beams It's Marge pouring out more wine At the Privet house, Someone up a tree. RIPPER Guardin' dog, I am here ? With my fleas, they are also here ? MARGE: I kept drinking cups of wine. RIPPER I was sleeping on the floor. MARGE: I drank many cups of wine (No, was it five or only four?) RIPPER: With my fleas, I am here. HARRY: You are where? RIPPER: In the Privet House. HARRY: In the Privet House? RIPPER: At Harry's rear. HARRY: Can you hear? RIPPER: I'm below. YOUNG!HARRY: So I notice. RIPPER: Sleeping on the floor, He then on my tail trod I must get him, For he on my tail trod. SNAPE: But did you growl? RIPPER: Yes, I did growl. Don't you listen? HARRY: Jeez Louise. RIPPER: I can hear him now I can hear his knocking knees I did chase him now I'd chase anything I'm the dog who's underneath, As I simmer and I seethe You can hear me now One is up a tree On my hind legs see me rear I'm what Potter truly fears. As I show off all my teeth You can hear me growl! DURSLEYS & MARGE Show us how you growl! RIPPER: First I give a yip and a yap Then I start to bark Then I sniff a bit Many times I hike with my leg As my jawbones snap As I go at it DURSLEYS & MARGE We hear Ripper grunting Angry growls He's hunting He can hear him, see him glare As he goes at it. He's a bulldog with some teeth YOUNG!HARRY Someone shifts his weight On a limb DUDLEY: Someone tells a joke. PETUNIA: Ripper wants a bite. MARGE: Someone stays up late. VERNON (indicating Young!Harry): Namely, him. YOUNG!HARRY I'm still up the oak. ALL Then we/they go at it: YOUNG!HARRY: Call him off! VERNON: Serves you right! PETUNIA: But she won't MARGE: And you know it! YOUNG!HARRY: This is wrong . PETUNIA: That's alright! DUDLEY: Now the line . MARGE: You will toe it HARRY (simultaneously with Snape and Marge below): And I'm stuck In the tree And I'm stuck Here with Snapey A- -Gain SNAPE (simultaneously with Harry and Marge):: You must clear It! Of the Feelings that be- -Tray MARGE (simultaneously with Harry and Snape above): And he Sits And he shakes And I drink Juice that grapey HARRY/SNAPE It's a Spent reali- -Ty That I/you Apprehensive- -Ly In the Pensieve see ALL It's the foment and the aunt. It's a Privet-driven theme. It is Ripper and the tree That bought Snapey here. It's Marge going to extremes It's two years before The Stone It's Occlumency And memory And someone up a tree. - CMC HARRY POTTER FILKS http://home.att.net/~coriolan/hpfilks.htm From coriolan at coriolan_cmc.yahoo.invalid Thu Jan 18 03:53:02 2007 From: coriolan at coriolan_cmc.yahoo.invalid (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 03:53:02 -0000 Subject: SpellCast Message-ID: Fiction Alley's podcast series SpellCast recently interviewed me about my filk site. Against my better judgment, I was persuaded to sing one of my filks. The painful results can be heard here: http://www.spell-cast.com/index.php?post_year=2007&post_month=01 I haven't listened to it - I can't stand hearing my voice on tape. Hopefully, I won't sound too incoherent. The interview lasted 45 minutes, but was edited down to 11 minutes. - CMC From entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid Sat Jan 20 17:04:26 2007 From: entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid (entropymail) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:04:26 -0000 Subject: Deathly Hallow's Release Date In-Reply-To: <008201c735d4$c65c38e0$6401a8c0@Main> Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "susiequsie23" wrote: >"Fran: ...he said something to indicate that the book will be released in July. Anyone heard any rumours about this?" Rumors of a July 31, 2007 release date popped up shortly after the release of the book's title... > Siriusly Snapey Susan I've also heard rumors of July 7, which would make the release date 07/07/07. But, like everything else, it's just a rumor for now! :: Entropy :: Visit my Etsy shop at www.SugarcubeDesign.etsy.com From josturgess at mooseming.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 21 08:22:39 2007 From: josturgess at mooseming.yahoo.invalid (mooseming) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:22:39 -0000 Subject: That title Message-ID: Hi all, I`ve been off line for a couple of months and therefore missed the festive fun filled announcement. The Deathly Hallows huh? Isn't that an oxymoron? Firstly I was surprised at the damp squibery of it all but then looking back at the futility of the HBP speculation perhaps not. So a person, place or thing that is deathlike .. Another name for HRX, I hope not. Harry's victim army, maybe, given there is a Scotish tradition that those born at Halloween have commanding powers over spirits and Harry was reborn (in a way) on Halloween this might have some legs. Godric's Hollow or beyond the vale, well it would be about time. However, I'm opting for the lamenting cry of a frustrated fan, a deathly hallow to you all and a happy new year. Regards Jo From silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 21 13:47:05 2007 From: silmariel at a_silmariel.yahoo.invalid (silmariel) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:47:05 +0100 Subject: [the_old_crowd] That title In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56f2b65c0701210547j490ea9f7yd5dd3c61bbc99e8d@...> On 1/21/07, mooseming wrote: > > Hi all, I`ve been off line for a couple of months and therefore > missed the festive fun filled announcement. > > The Deathly Hallows huh? Isn't that an oxymoron? > > Firstly I was surprised at the damp squibery of it all but then > looking back at the futility of the HBP speculation perhaps not. > > So a person, place or thing that is deathlike?.. > > Another name for HRX, I hope not. > Harry's victim army, maybe, given there is a Scotish tradition that > those born at Halloween have commanding powers over spirits and > Harry was reborn (in a way) on Halloween this might have some legs. > Godric's Hollow or beyond the vale, well it would be about time. That's an option. The thing is, some of the ideas proposed explain the words, but do not have the weight to be a tittle, they seem too... like chapter tittles, but not integral to the whole book. That's why only a trip behind the veil doesn't ring true as a tittle, nor only a visit to GH. I was toying with inferi, victims of avada kedavra, victims of dementor kiss. I don't know what happens to the souls of those not killed in an ordinary fashion, but they are enough of them to be a little army. It can't be a another name for Horcruxes, imo, but certainly, it looks like it, and that would be integral to the plot. Following that reasoning, is something closely tied to Hxs but not equals them. I'd bet for something we are not yet told, something different, something we've already seen but not recogniced, very in the style of JK. I have the little theory that Deathly Hallows is the current state of some souls, what is created at the same time of making a Hx, a subproduct, a kind of mirror. Quasy dead but not exactly characters. So, as an example, Mirtle, Binns and Lily (if Harry counts as a Hx) are DHs. I like Mirtle because it ties nicely the surprising quantity of screen time that particular ghost has had, and how useful it has been in books 2,4,6, with her being first Voldemort's victim. For Binns, well, I'm still betting in the teacher's room fireplace dissapearing within book 2. Losing a fireplace between books I'd consider it a flint or a stupid detail not to be taken into account, within the same book, a quite small one, gets marked as 'unresolved issue'. Good to see you back, Silmariel However, I'm opting for the lamenting cry of a frustrated fan, a > deathly hallow to you all and a happy new year. > > Regards > > Jo > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid Mon Jan 22 04:31:18 2007 From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:31:18 -0000 Subject: deathly hallows Message-ID: It finally came to me. I was wondering why the term "hallowed" seemed familiar other than the Lord's Prayer. Something out there...elusive...on the tip of my tongue, but then gone- like the ephemeral bag of chocolates that vanish of their own volition from my pantry. Then today I was humming an old tune from my past, and it hit me: it had the word "hallowed" in it. Back when Hector was a pup, I was a high school student in Wisconsin. Every year, on the night before graduation, we had a choir concert which always closed with us singing "The Halls of Ivy". I'll try to remember as much of it as I can. Oh, we love the halls of ivy That surround us here today, And we will not forget, Though we be far, far away. One day a hush will fall, The footsteps of us all Will echo down the hall and disappear. But as we sadly start Our journeys far apart A part of every heart will linger here. To the hallowed halls of ivy Every voice will bid farewell And (something) off in twilight Like the old vesper bell. I'm sure there's more to it, but that's what I remember. Considering we had neither ivy nor a vesper bell anywhere in the school, it was an odd song for us to sing, but the director liked it, and we did have halls. After a few years of singing it, you did get misty singing it that one last time. And those ivy-free walls, were kind of hallowed. Not as in consecrated in a religious way, but held full of memories. The friends, the teachers, the pranks in the halls, the waiting in line to see what sort of announcement had gone up that had everyone buzzing and crowding around. The posting of scores during test week...ok, so not all memories were good, but those halls really did get hallowed by the time you had to say good-bye. Or perhaps because you had to say good-bye. So now I'm wondering if the Deathly Hallows are some place that Harry considers sacred in some way, which then, during the course of the book, becomes deathly, either by a mass killing or an emptying, as in a deathly silence. Either way, it doesn't really look good for Hoggy Woggy Hogwarts, which I think would be the place that Harry would hallow most of all. Of course, I'm bringing in a whole load of baggage that JKR wouldn't have associated with the word, but who knows if this wouldn't be a profitable line of inquiry? On some level... or tangent...maybe. Ginger, enjoying the company of her new hamster, Henrik Pavel Tomas Nicklas Dominik. From fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid Thu Jan 25 01:58:23 2007 From: fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid (fhmaneely) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:58:23 -0000 Subject: That title In-Reply-To: <56f2b65c0701210547j490ea9f7yd5dd3c61bbc99e8d@...> Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, silmariel wrote: > > On 1/21/07, mooseming wrote: > > > > Hi all, I`ve been off line for a couple of months and therefore > > missed the festive fun filled announcement. > > > > The Deathly Hallows huh? Isn't that an oxymoron? > > > > Firstly I was surprised at the damp squibery of it all but then > > looking back at the futility of the HBP speculation perhaps not. > > > > So a person, place or thing that is deathlike .. > > > > Another name for HRX, I hope not. > > Harry's victim army, maybe, given there is a Scotish tradition that > > those born at Halloween have commanding powers over spirits and > > Harry was reborn (in a way) on Halloween this might have some legs. > > Godric's Hollow or beyond the vale, well it would be about time. > > > > That's an option. The thing is, some of the ideas proposed explain the > words, but do not have the weight to be a tittle, they seem too... like > chapter tittles, but not integral to the whole book. That's why only a trip > behind the veil doesn't ring true as a tittle, nor only a visit to GH. > > I was toying with inferi, victims of avada kedavra, victims of dementor > kiss. I don't know what happens to the souls of those not killed in an > ordinary fashion, but they are enough of them to be a little army. > > It can't be a another name for Horcruxes, imo, but certainly, it looks like > it, and that would be integral to the plot. Following that reasoning, is > something closely tied to Hxs but not equals them. I'd bet for something we > are not yet told, something different, something we've already seen but not > recogniced, very in the style of JK. > > I have the little theory that Deathly Hallows is the current state of some > souls, what is created at the same time of making a Hx, a subproduct, a kind > of mirror. Quasy dead but not exactly characters. > > So, as an example, Mirtle, Binns and Lily (if Harry counts as a Hx) are DHs. > I like Mirtle because it ties nicely the surprising quantity of screen time > that particular ghost has had, and how useful it has been in books 2,4,6, > with her being first Voldemort's victim. > > For Binns, well, I'm still betting in the teacher's room fireplace > dissapearing within book 2. Losing a fireplace between books I'd consider it > a flint or a stupid detail not to be taken into account, within the same > book, a quite small one, gets marked as 'unresolved issue'. > > Good to see you back, > > Silmariel > I was thinking that graveyards were hallowed ground, then remembered graveyards are consecrated (?spelling) ground. So I looked up the meaning of the word hallow and found the following: Etymology: Middle English halowen, from Old English hAlgian, from hAlig holy -- more at HOLY 1 : to make holy or set apart for holy use 2 : to respect greatly : VENERATE synonym see DEVOTE So, deadly hallows are deadly holy which borders on being an oxymoron,or we could go with deadly devoted or deadly but greatly respected. So who are these entities that are who are deadly and also holy, respected and devoted. I'm at a loss as usual! On a side note, should we start making predictions since the book may be coming out this summer? Can't wait. Best to all, Fran a moron with no ox From technomad at ericoppen.yahoo.invalid Fri Jan 26 01:48:36 2007 From: technomad at ericoppen.yahoo.invalid (Eric Oppen) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:48:36 -0600 Subject: The DADA curse and Harry Message-ID: <002f01c740ec$1963d120$06570043@D6L2G391> I was sitting around thinking about the "curse" that's on the Defense Against The Dark Arts teacher's position, and it occurred to me: Did Harry, in fact, avoid the curse? While he wasn't an official teacher, he was teaching DADA, and doing so at Hogwarts. I don't know exactly how magic works, but if he could be forced to compete in the Tri-Wizard Tournament even though there were three rightful champions, the DADA Instructors' Curse could have lit on him. Let's recap what happened to the DADA professors we know about. Quirrell: possessed by Vapormort and "left to die." Lockhart: memories destroyed by a spell he tried to cast, a spell at which he was apparently quite expert. Lupin: "outed" as a werewolf, nearly killed the Trio. Moody: kidnapped and kept under Imperius by an impostor, who was, himself, Kissed by a Dementor. Umbridge: kidnapped and (probably) abused by centaurs, after being promoted far beyond her abilities and driving the school into a state close to open rebellion. Snape: trapped by a stupid Unbreakable Vow into killing Dumbledore, forced to flee Hogwarts, "outed" as a Death Eater. Not a very encouraging list, is it? People in the fandom seem to think that Harry avoided the curse, because he wasn't ever the _official_ DADA instructor. However, in his fifth year, Harry lost not only his romance with Cho Chang (which was probably doomed from the beginning; Cho was clearly still grieving over Cedric and casting around for a "Cedric-substitute") but his closest link to his dead parents, his godfather, Sirius Black. To make it worse for Harry, Black's death could be laid at Harry's door---his refusal to practice his Occlumency left his mind open to Lord Voldemort, and that allowed Voldemort to plant the visions in his mind that led to the confrontation at the Ministry of Magic. Also, in common with the other DADA teachers, Harry didn't return, at least not as a DADA teacher. While he was at the school his sixth year, "Dumbledore's Army" was apparently dead. Even though Harry had enjoyed teaching, and his students had learned a lot, he didn't teach again. So-o-o...did Harry avoid the curse, or did it fall on him, too? From arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid Fri Jan 26 17:17:29 2007 From: arrowsmithbt at kneasy.yahoo.invalid (Barry Arrowsmith) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:17:29 -0000 Subject: The DADA curse and Harry In-Reply-To: <002f01c740ec$1963d120$06570043@D6L2G391> Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "Eric Oppen" wrote: > > I was sitting around thinking about the "curse" that's on the Defense > Against The Dark Arts teacher's position, and it occurred to me: Did Harry, > in fact, avoid the curse? > > While he wasn't an official teacher, he was teaching DADA, and doing so at > Hogwarts. I don't know exactly how magic works, but if he could be forced > to compete in the Tri-Wizard Tournament even though there were three > rightful champions, the DADA Instructors' Curse could have lit on him. > snip > > Not a very encouraging list, is it? People in the fandom seem to think that > Harry avoided the curse, because he wasn't ever the _official_ DADA > instructor. However, in his fifth year, Harry lost not only his romance > with Cho Chang (which was probably doomed from the beginning; Cho was > clearly still grieving over Cedric and casting around for a > "Cedric-substitute") but his closest link to his dead parents, his > godfather, Sirius Black. To make it worse for Harry, Black's death could be > laid at Harry's door---his refusal to practice his Occlumency left his mind > open to Lord Voldemort, and that allowed Voldemort to plant the visions in > his mind that led to the confrontation at the Ministry of Magic. > > Also, in common with the other DADA teachers, Harry didn't return, at least > not as a DADA teacher. While he was at the school his sixth year, > "Dumbledore's Army" was apparently dead. Even though Harry had enjoyed > teaching, and his students had learned a lot, he didn't teach again. > > So-o-o...did Harry avoid the curse, or did it fall on him, too? > Second attempt, yahoo!mort ate the first. Arguable, it's true - though one can't help but notice that most of the 'disasters' that happened to Harry were not so bad after all. For example, the Langford book expects a quick 'Reparo!' spell to fix that mirror, the Cho Chang pash (to those with a romantic bent) was necessary so that he'd recognise the real thing when it came along, to those with an unromantic bent - Adolescents. Huh. What else do you expect? As for Sirius... most know my views on that one. As a guardian he'd have been a disaster and DD was probably as relieved as hell when Sirius copped it in the neck. No, Harry got off lightly, little more than run-of-the-mill Voldy-inspired mayhem and malice - all the other DADA profs were driven from the school by disaster, disgrace or death. (Note that Moody never actually taught DADA classes, Barty Jnr did - another deader.) And not forgetting that while Harry was busy demonstrating a nifty bit of wand-waving to his admiring audience in the RoR, there was an *official* DADA prof in post that the gremlins were already busy lining up for the bum's rush. Nope. I think he missed out on that particular curse. Kneasy From entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid Fri Jan 26 18:20:16 2007 From: entropymail at entropymail.yahoo.invalid (entropymail) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:20:16 -0000 Subject: That title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "mooseming" wrote: > > Hi all, I`ve been off line for a couple of months and therefore > missed the festive fun filled announcement. > > The Deathly Hallows huh? Isn't that an oxymoron? I don't know why, but it all sounds so.... Nancy Drew to me. As in "Nancy Drew and the Case of the Deathly Hallows." :: Entropy :: Visit my Etsy shop at www.SugarcubeDesign.etsy.com From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 28 00:19:14 2007 From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:19:14 -0000 Subject: That title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Entropy wrote: > I don't know why, but it all sounds so.... Nancy Drew to me. As in > "Nancy Drew and the Case of the Deathly Hallows." Ginger: Oho! It's a clue! George will play a big role. If I remember my Nancy Drew days, didn't she have a best friend named George? And the other was Bess. So George and Fred (who is going to become a woman named Bess via polyjuice) will find the horcruxes. Whew. Glad that's settled. Ginger, being odd tonight. From SongBird3411 at songbird3411.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 28 05:04:56 2007 From: SongBird3411 at songbird3411.yahoo.invalid (songbird3411) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 05:04:56 -0000 Subject: deathly hallows In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > It finally came to me. I was wondering why the term "hallowed" > seemed familiar other than the Lord's Prayer. > So now I'm wondering if the Deathly Hallows are some place that > Harry considers sacred in some way, which then, during the course of > the book, becomes deathly, either by a mass killing or an emptying, > as in a deathly silence. > Either way, it doesn't really look good for Hoggy Woggy Hogwarts, > which I think would be the place that Harry would hallow most of all. Mindy: Interesting idea. Especially because I would wager that Voldemort also considers Hogwarts to be hallowed ground. We have heard before how similar Harry and Tom Riddle are. I know a lot of Potter fans have thought through the years that there must be some climactic battle at Hogwarts. I wonder if HBP satisfies this requirement? Does it count if Voldemort isn't even there? Without Dumbledore there, what becomes of Hogwarts in Book 7? I definitely agree that nothing in HBP bodes well for Hogwarts in Book 7. Deathly Hallows = Hogwarts? I am not sure I love the idea, but I guess it would fit. Mindy From fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 28 12:37:04 2007 From: fmaneely at fhmaneely.yahoo.invalid (fhmaneely) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:37:04 -0000 Subject: That title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > Entropy wrote: > > I don't know why, but it all sounds so.... Nancy Drew to me. As in > > "Nancy Drew and the Case of the Deathly Hallows." > > Ginger: > Oho! It's a clue! > George will play a big role. > > If I remember my Nancy Drew days, didn't she have a best friend named > George? And the other was Bess. > > So George and Fred (who is going to become a woman named Bess via > polyjuice) will find the horcruxes. > > Whew. Glad that's settled. > Ginger, being odd tonight. Actually it was something the twins were working on that caused Fred to become Bess. A sex change cupcake perhaps! fran > From catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid Sun Jan 28 18:03:53 2007 From: catlady at catlady_de_los_angeles.yahoo.invalid (Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:03:53 -0000 Subject: deathly hallows In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In the_old_crowd at yahoogroups.com, "quigonginger" wrote: > > Ginger, enjoying the company of her new hamster, Henrik Pavel Tomas > Nicklas Dominik. > The name is longer than the rodent. From quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid Wed Jan 31 09:26:21 2007 From: quigonginger at quigonginger.yahoo.invalid (quigonginger) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:26:21 -0000 Subject: That title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I, Ginger, had written: > > So George and Fred (who is going to become a woman named Bess via > > polyjuice) will find the horcruxes. fran replied: > Actually it was something the twins were working on that caused Fred > to become Bess. A sex change cupcake perhaps! Ginger now: Yes! That's it. Lord Voldemort will be be vanquished by giving him a sex change cupcake. He'll have to go back to the anagram drawing board and become "I'm Dame Lovorrdolt." No one will be afraid to say his new name, and LV will be no more. Glad we cracked that one. Ginger, noting with a wink to Rita that my name is much smaller than I am, so I had to make up for it with the hamster.